Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: dwarner on August 02, 2008, 05:03:42 PM
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Secondary Flooring: 3.G, 4.Z
"All cars with modified floor pans...". Section 4.Z, the definition, elaborates further.
Step Pan: 4.EE, again another definition
See also 4.G Belly Pan and 4.P Floor Boards.
Please let me know if these items need further clarification.
Thank you,
DW
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Last night I had an epiphany. Dan Warner came to me in a dream. He was floating just off the ground and surrounded with a glowing golden light. In his left hand he carried a long pointed stick. Dan told me that cars with Ford frames, boxed Ford frames replica Ford frames, rectangular tube frames, or larger round tube frames must have the floor boards attached to the top of the frame. The floor can dip down between frame members, but the driver must be supported by suitable structure so that he can not come out the bottom in case of a crash. In multi tube frame cars, such as mine, the flooring need be attached to the top of the lowermost tube only. Suitable crossmembers must still be provided to support the floor under the driver in case of any incident. In fact my roadster has quite a little sub frame under the driver. I think I have it now. Despite how much my floor looks like a step pan it's a floor because the lower most tube is lower than the floor.
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So back to my question on the other post I made as to the history/purpose of a step pan. Were they or are they there for an aerodynamic advantage? Seems to me to be the only real reason if you have to have flooring in the car to protect the driver. If so were they finally limited to how much of the bottom of the car they could cover vs. a full belly pan by their limitations as to bottom coverage as written in the current rules??
Love ya Dan, but I'm glad you aren't coming to me in any of my dreams 8-),
Sum
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Now I'm really confused.
My channeled Street Roadster has to have 4.P. Floorboards "...mounted above the frame or in the stock location..." but it doesn't say that it has to be flat!
So I can drop the required 4.P. Floorboards down between the framerails as long as they meet the rule quoted above?
And then because the "floor pans" are modified, I have to have 3.G. Secondary Flooring, attached to the bottom of the framerails?
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Miscellaneous%20stuff/Roadsterdrawing.jpg)
Sounds like a major aero advantage that I haven't planned on. Where's the plasma cutter?
Mike
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I am glad they added to the rule "side to side". If their is a rake to the car its impossible to keep it parallel to the ground. Mike, like you mentioned it only talks about the mounting position, done correctly it could give you an aero advantage.
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Now I'm really confused.
My channeled Street Roadster has to have 4.P. Floorboards "...mounted above the frame or in the stock location..." but it doesn't say that it has to be flat!
So I can drop the required 4.P. Floorboards down between the framerails as long as they meet the rule quoted above?
And then because the "floor pans" are modified, I have to have 3.G. Secondary Flooring, attached to the bottom of the framerails?
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Miscellaneous%20stuff/Roadsterdrawing.jpg)
Sounds like a major aero advantage that I haven't planned on. Where's the plasma cutter?
Mike
The way I read Street Roadster you wouldn't be legal with that floor there unless it came stock down below the top of the frame rails. Also I think the secondary flooring is there if you do have a step pan at the bottom, since you can't use that as the floor. You are not allowed a step pan in Street Roadster so in your case if the flooring was at the top of the frame rails I would think that is all you need.
But what do I know, I'm still trying to find out more about the origin of step pans and I'm building a lakester and not a roadster, so you had better pay attention to the other guys,
Sum
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Sumner is 100% correct.
Street Roadster = floor boards in stock location, not attached to the top then modified like the drawing. Looks like more words need to be added on this one.
Street Roadster = NO step pan.
DW
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Now I'm really confused.
My channeled Street Roadster has to have 4.P. Floorboards "...mounted above the frame or in the stock location..." but it doesn't say that it has to be flat!
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Miscellaneous%20stuff/Roadsterdrawing.jpg)
Mike
Mike,
If you read the Rules under Street Roadster, it says:
"Flooring in the car shall be stock, or above the top lip of the top frame rail, and comply with the definition of Floorboards contained in Section 4.P.
IMO it is pretty clear that any part of the flooring has to be above the top lip of the top frame rail.
Tom G.
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So Dan, If you have a flat plate (fuel gas roadster) flush with the bottom of the frame rail and your feet set on it(floorboard) with no other panels under it. Is that a step pan or floorboard? See you in 15 days. :wink:
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Tom and Sum (and others):
Note that I started by saying, "Now, I'm really confused." Flat floor, straight cross the top of the framerails seemed to be the rule.
Rich's epiphany ("an appearance or manifestation of a god or other supernatural being") said, "...must have the floor boards attached to the top of the frame. The floor can dip down between frame members, but the driver must be supported by suitable structure so that he can not come out the bottom in case of a crash."
In my drawing, the floorboards are mounted above the frame rails, then dip down. Neither Tom's quote from the Street Roadster specs nor 4.P state that the floorboards have to be flat.
I don't know.
Mike
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All you guys have made this way to complicated. It's all in the book and I won't put numbers on them you can read them for yourselves. First and foremost READ the DEFINITIONS.
Gas/Fuel roadsters, Gas/Fuel Altered coupes.: You may install a flat panel from the aft most portion of the firewall to 9" infront of the midline of the rear axle and side to side under the frame. If you are so choosing to remove the stock floorboard from your vehicle and use a "step pan" you must then add secondary flooring. Secondary flooring also has a definition and is needed in the advent of the step pan being torn away in an accident. It is to protect your legs from leaving the confines of the body. Secondary
flooring is used in every class that allows you ro remove the original floorboards and for vehecles like lakesters, streamliners, which have no original manufactured body and modified roadsters, and comp coupes .
If you have a coupe and have left the stock floor boards in the car and added a step pan you need not do anything for seconday flooring. It cannot be attached to the step pan for obvious reasons.
Also in the above altered and roadsters every panel that does not meet the definition of a step pan must meet the floorboard rule. So after you have reached that area 9" infront of the centerline of the rear axle ALL paneling must then meet the definition of a floorboard; and I'll remind you again "Above the frame rails OVER the driveline components."
When you see me look under the rear of a roadster or altered I'm not only looking at the drive shaft loop and traction bar restraints I'm looking at a lot of things and I'd better see a complete rear end, spring, and shocks. If you have decided to end your frame at the rear end I better see a whole lot of open space and no panel attached to the body.
You can bet my roadster panels have all been checked and are legal. I just put my transmisson back in today and the left secondary flooring which fits in after the linkage........Good Luck JD
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Mike, I am talking about a roadster. Fuel or gas. Not a street roadster. Different rules.
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.................Neither Tom's quote from the Street Roadster specs nor 4.P state that the floorboards have to be flat.......
The rule in Street Roadster says the flooring has to be "stock, or above the top lip of the top frame rail...". The stock floor isn't attached to the top and then dips down. They aren't saying stock only at the frame rails.
I realize you are probably trying to get the drive down in the car to lower the cage and that is a good idea, but the other guys in the class are stuck with the same set of rules. If speed is your only concern I'd look for a shorter driver.
c ya,
Sum
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In my drawing, the floorboards are mounted above the frame rails, then dip down. Neither Tom's quote from the Street Roadster specs nor 4.P state that the floorboards have to be flat.
I don't know.
Mike
Mike,
It is a good question. I will put the rule another way and see if it makes sense. This is for Street Roadster Class.
If you leave out the words "stock, or", maybe that will explain it better.
"Flooring in the car shall be above the top lip of the top frame rail, and comply with the definition of Floorboards contained in Section 4.P.
Now the way I read that is all the flooring shall be above the top lip of the top frame rail. If for some reason you want to make a step up and put the floor higher it does not say you cannot.
I think where you are getting confused is in Section 4.P. it uses the words, "Floorboards shall be "mounted" above the frame". In this situation I can see where you would think of your drawing as being correct, since your mounting your floorboards above the frame. Maybe the word "mounted" should be left out and something like "installed" put in.
Hope this helps,
Tom G.
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Thank you JD if you read the DEFINITIONS its not that hard to understand , Iam glad you cleared that up good luck at speedweek.
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JD answered yet again with the same info. Lets leave it at that.
4BMike - don't do it. I have already put in a rule change adding yet more words to a very simple rule.
DW
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My apologies to all: I got a little carried away on what started out to be a slightly tongue-in-cheek commentary on Rich's quote (?paraphrase? para-quote?) of what DW described without class distinction.
I have no problems with a flat floor in my street roadster, in fact, to accommodate a "dipped" floor, I'd pretty much have to build a new chassis.
Mike
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I'll throw a little fun for the fire but you must remember what I'm talking about is STOCK for the year of the car. If you ever see a 32 Ford street roadster and the guy looks like he is sitting pretty low; the '32 did have a dip in the stock floorboard to store the side curtins under the seat. At one time we did not define a seat and guys put in a back and sat right on the floorboards in that dip. Man your head was barely above the door ledge. Pretty cool. It could still be done but the seat would be a lot of work and would definatly need a front support plus a main framing under the seat. mkilger... I won't be at B'ville until October. Good Luck
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Dan,
Hopefully your added words on the subject will not be added to Street Roadster rules, it is already the longest section of all vehicles, I checked.
JD, we will miss you at Speed Week!
Tom
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Mike Waters has pointed out to me 10" infront of the centerline of the axle. He is correct I don't what I was thinking about. JD
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I have a few $100 bills ready for speedweek this year , Is it a step pan or floorboard?? LOL just kidding good luck at speedweek.