Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => Website Suggestions => Topic started by: dwarner on July 23, 2008, 10:06:06 PM
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Jon,
Can we start a topic for all of Ratliff's posts that he generates and put his stuff in there. I know I am a monitor but, I am unsure of the process.
I think if we put just the posts he initates it will cut down on his pissing people off. Members can view his stuff if they want or not.
Thanks,
DW
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Good idea Dan!! I'll vote for that.
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Jon,
Can we start a topic for all of Ratliff's posts that he generates and put his stuff in there. I know I am a monitor but, I am unsure of the process.
I think if we put just the posts he initates it will cut down on his pissing people off. Members can view his stuff if they want or not.
Thanks,
DW
Funny I was thinking the same thing today,
Sum
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I have him on "ignore" so I never see what he writes. However from everyone elses responses I get the idea...............JD
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Dan, if you are looking for an easy way to find all of Franklins informative posts without looking all over the forum then why dont you just give him your email address. I'm sure you will have all this and more in about 76 seconds. :-P
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Dan, if you are looking for an easy way to find all of Franklins informative posts without looking all over the forum then why dont you just give him your email address. I'm sure you will have all this and more in about 76 seconds. :-P
I think he already has it. I have been getting mass email stuff just like his posts for 9 months and I think DW's first on the cc list. I also think a lot of you other guys get them too.
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I have him on "ignore" so I never see what he writes. However from everyone elses responses I get the idea...............JD
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This many people feel the same way and see the same thing you do.. :wink:
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Do you suppose Franklin never sleeps?
'Coz he seems to be posting 24/7 across the net.
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Do you suppose Franklin never sleeps?
'Coz he seems to be posting 24/7 across the net.
MAYBE HE'S JUST A LONELY? :? I've never seen a mean or deragatory statement from him yet :|?Maybe we should have him as a Voleenterr and then he can see how hard it really is? :mrgreen:
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we had a guy down here annoying us on our DLRA forum,our members gave him so much grief .that he just faded away.I notice Ratliff has not "yet" commented on the topic named in his honour.Should be a good read when he does.Cheers,Bob.
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MAYBE HE'S JUST A LONELY? :? I've never seen a mean or deragatory statement from him yet :|
Kaz, there are alot of members here who have formed opinions about franklin based on his earlier presence in this board (he was banned), his statements on other forums and his emails. If he gets your email address you will know what I mean. His behavior on this board this go around has been quite good and if he maintained it forever he would go a long way to fixing his earlier impressions he made on people. He still posts too much off topic stuff, knows everything and talks down to people but none of these are a death penalty offense.
His behavior on this forum within the last month on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being worst is probably a 3. Unfortunately he has called lots of the people on this forum very unprintable things in emails, (cc'd to practically the entire world) and they will not soon forget it.
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Dan, if you are looking for an easy way to find all of Franklins informative posts without looking all over the forum then why dont you just give him your email address. I'm sure you will have all this and more in about 76 seconds. :-P
I think he already has it. I have been getting mass email stuff just like his posts for 9 months and I think DW's first on the cc list. I also think a lot of you other guys get them too.
We have now been added to this mass mailing list and I find it highly offensive and out of line. It is my choice to post/ignore on this list the topics that peak my interest but to seek out our email address to force this diatribe on us is down right rude. He has now been added to the blocked spammer email list so we will no longer be forced to endure his spam mailings. It is a damn shame that we have to be subject to that type of harassing behavior.
Listers be warned, if he finds your email address he will force his opinions on you via email because this list just isn't enough.
Deb
PS: Willie if you read this, this is a prime example of why people don't want to use their real names on a board like this. It makes it easier to find you for what ever deviant reason one might have!
PSS: I now have all of your email addresses as well since he wasn't nice enough to use the blind CC feature! Beware.... :-o :evil:
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He has been on my blocked sender list for many moons. He has found another way around getting mail out but I don't want to put it on line. He is sneaky and has been banned from more web sites then spokes on a wheel.
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MAYBE HE'S JUST A LONELY? :? I've never seen a mean or deragatory statement from him yet :|
Kaz, there are alot of members here who have formed opinions about franklin based on his earlier presence in this board (he was banned), his statements on other forums and his emails. If he gets your email address you will know what I mean. His behavior on this board this go around has been quite good and if he maintained it forever he would go a long way to fixing his earlier impressions he made on people. He still posts too much off topic stuff, knows everything and talks down to people but none of these are a death penalty offense.
His behavior on this forum within the last month on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being worst is probably a 3. Unfortunately he has called lots of the people on this forum very unprintable things in emails, (cc'd to practically the entire world) and they will not soon forget it.
Yeah, too bad "he has called lots of the people on this forum very unprintable things in emails" is itself a falsehood and an untruth. You know, BULLSHIT.
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MAYBE HE'S JUST A LONELY? :? I've never seen a mean or deragatory statement from him yet :|
Yeah, too bad "he has called lots of the people on this forum very unprintable things in emails" is itself a falsehood and an untruth. You know, BULLSHIT.
The wheels are about to come off.......
Franklin, you're your own worst enemy, you can defend yourself without using foul language. And you had better start.
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So now "he" is up to 14 however I have 1 myself.... :-D
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MAYBE HE'S JUST A LONELY? :? I've never seen a mean or deragatory statement from him yet :|
Yeah, too bad "he has called lots of the people on this forum very unprintable things in emails" is itself a falsehood and an untruth. You know, BULLSHIT.
The wheels are about to come off.......
Franklin, you're your own worst enemy, you can defend yourself without using foul language. And you had better start.
When someone repeats a lie I speak bluntly.
And speaking of bluntly, why is this schoolgirl gossip thread even here?
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To answer your question, Frnaklin, this topic was started by Dan Warner -- suggesting that we institute a topic/section for you to post in so that those who would rather not correspond with you wouldn't be "forced" into doing so.
So what do you think -- shall I start one for you? Let me know.
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To answer your question, Frnaklin, this topic was started by Dan Warner -- suggesting that we institute a topic/section for you to post in so that those who would rather not correspond with you wouldn't be "forced" into doing so.
So what do you think -- shall I start one for you? Let me know.
I say we start one for Warner first and see how THAT goes over.
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I say his sarcasm has neared the end of the rope.
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To answer your question, Frnaklin, this topic was started by Dan Warner -- suggesting that we institute a topic/section for you to post in so that those who would rather not correspond with you wouldn't be "forced" into doing so.
So what do you think -- shall I start one for you? Let me know.
I say we start one for Warner first and see how THAT goes over.
Will YOU be posting in it?
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" I say we start one for Warner first and see how THAT goes over."
Ratliff, you still don't get it!!!, I have watched you post useless nonsense and kept quit and let others let you know how useless this stuff is. But when you suggest to start a thread for Dan for pointing out what we all see and what you cant see is just going to far!!!
The comment about starting to post a thread about Dan has given you enough rope to hang your self in my eyes.
I will add my name to the ignore list.
Tony
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I say his sarcasm has neared the end of the rope.
I'm not the one who started a thread advertising to the world how there are those who feel threatened when they discover exchanging ideas means learning there are ideas nothing at all like the way they're used to looking at the world.
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I say his sarcasm has neared the end of the rope.
I'm not the one who started a thread advertising how there are those who feel threatened when they discover exchanging ideas means learning there ways of looking at things nothing at all like theirs.
You are delusional!!! I keep trying to TALK to you & yet YOU won't respond with direct conversation. YOU are the one that can only see things one way! YOU are the one with the closed mind!
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Deb
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I say his sarcasm has neared the end of the rope.
I'm not the one who started a thread advertising how there are those who feel threatened when they discover exchanging ideas means learning there ways of looking at things nothing at all like theirs.
You are delusional!!! I keep trying to TALK to you & yet YOU won't respond with direct conversation. YOU are the one that can only see things one way! YOU are the one with the closed mind!
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Deb
First, I explained how rider drag chutes were developed thirty years ago and that twenty six years ago they saved someone from any significant injury after departing a bike at over 200 mph. Then I provided a link to a video of one deploying from a Top Fuel drag boat. Then Eric Ahlstrom, a degreed aeronautical engineer who has worked extensively with aerodynamic decelerators and used to race superbikes, said rider drag chutes were a good idea. Then I provided links to videos of two Top Fuel bike riders getting blown off their bikes at 200 mph. Then someone who rides a 200 mph bike with no fairing tells me I'm delusional. Go figure.
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Yes you are delusional because you can't answer specific questions. I am a LAND SPEED RACER who has gone down WITH a bike meaning still ON the bike when I hit the concrete.
Your answer to that was that WE should learn WHEN to let go! Do you have ANY idea how quickly you can go from upright to on the ground? Do you KNOW what a human beings reaction time is? Do you think it is possible to react that quickly when you don't think or know you are going to fall at speed?
Can you explain to me/demonstrate to me how I could have used this parachute to save me from my broken collarbone? A broken collarbone &/or clavicle is one of the most common motorcycle injuries. Derived when falling to the ground. Most often directly to the ground (low siding) without any flying through the air involved.
A tether style cord would not have actuated the chute for me because I didn't leave the bike until AFTER I hit the ground. If the chute deployed when I hit the ground & was still with the bike my fear is that we would have collectively become entangled and risked tumbling down the track together rather then separately thus causing more injury not less.
So far you have given examples of drag bikes with giant flat tires & wheelie bars none of which have so much as tipped over in the incident. The rest of the examples are related to other vehicles not of the same configuration most of which the rider is deployed upward.
SO, tell me, talk to me, in your own words with your own knowledge. How is a chute going to help ME as a land speed racer in the event I wreck again in the same manor? I have a rod on my collarbone and I would really like to not do more damage so if there is something more that can help I want to hear about it. BUT telling me what works on a boat or a space shuttle is of no use to me because the dynamics are completely different.
And by the way YES I've ridden an unfaired bike over 200mph and I will ride it to that speed again. One I set up MYSELF. At least I have balls enough to get on the tract and prove my theories not just sit around posting other peoples experiences.
So lets hear it. How is your beloved parachute going to save my collarbone when I lowside again? How is it going to do it without getting me tangled up with the bike and causing greater injury. I'm here, I'm listing.
Deb
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You will come to a stop whether or not you have a drag chute. Without one, you will decelerate at 1 to 2 Gs on the salt and probably a G or so higher on pavement due to higher coefficient of friction. At Bonneville, this translates to sliding 600 ft or so from 150mph. The G force depends on how slippery your costume is and how much flailing of arms, legs, and head is done - they tend to dig in. With a chute, you have the problem of it unfurling when you are sliding chute first. It will probably wrap around you and make a nice shroud for your body - at least you wouldn't have to watch the festivities. I wouldn't trust escape capsules either - both the B58 and B70 had them. The rate gyros would lose track of the capsule orientation after a second or two and not know when to fire the chute (up or down, etc). Ivan Kinchelow got killed when his early downward-firing F104 ejection seat shot him into the ground (you were supposed to roll upside down first). Later F104s changed to upward firing seats. When in a critical situation, you don't necessarily have the time to do everything you need to. It would take a number of years of expensive design and testing to get any radical solution right and safe for the real world. This fantasy stuff is interesting since I have a lot of spare time.
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Yes you are delusional because you can't answer specific questions. I am a LAND SPEED RACER who has gone down WITH a bike meaning still ON the bike when I hit the concrete.
Your answer to that was that WE should learn WHEN to let go! Do you have ANY idea how quickly you can go from upright to on the ground? Do you KNOW what a human beings reaction time is? Do you think it is possible to react that quickly when you don't think or know you are going to fall at speed?
Can you explain to me/demonstrate to me how I could have used this parachute to save me from my broken collarbone? A broken collarbone &/or clavicle is one of the most common motorcycle injuries. Derived when falling to the ground. Most often directly to the ground (low siding) without any flying through the air involved.
A tether style cord would not have actuated the chute for me because I didn't leave the bike until AFTER I hit the ground. If the chute deployed when I hit the ground & was still with the bike my fear is that we would have collectively become entangled and risked tumbling down the track together rather then separately thus causing more injury not less.
So far you have given examples of drag bikes with giant flat tires & wheelie bars none of which have so much as tipped over in the incident. The rest of the examples are related to other vehicles not of the same configuration most of which the rider is deployed upward.
SO, tell me, talk to me, in your own words with your own knowledge. How is a chute going to help ME as a land speed racer in the event I wreck again in the same manor? I have a rod on my collarbone and I would really like to not do more damage so if there is something more that can help I want to hear about it. BUT telling me what works on a boat or a space shuttle is of no use to me because the dynamics are completely different.
And by the way YES I've ridden an unfaired bike over 200mph and I will ride it to that speed again. One I set up MYSELF. At least I have balls enough to get on the tract and prove my theories not just sit around posting other peoples experiences.
So lets hear it. How is your beloved parachute going to save my collarbone when I lowside again? How is it going to do it without getting me tangled up with the bike and causing greater injury. I'm here, I'm listing.
Deb
Human reaction is irrelevant since deployment of the rider drag chute doesn't depend on the rider. It didn't depend either on the drag boat driver to release it.
John Dixon walked away from his incident with no broken bones.
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You will come to a stop whether or not you have a drag chute. Without one, you will decelerate at 1 to 2 Gs on the salt and probably a G or so higher on pavement due to higher coefficient of friction. At Bonneville, this translates to sliding 600 ft or so from 150mph. The G force depends on how slippery your costume is and how much flailing of arms, legs, and head is done - they tend to dig in. With a chute, you have the problem of it unfurling when you are sliding chute first. It will probably wrap around you and make a nice shroud for your body - at least you wouldn't have to watch the festivities. I wouldn't trust escape capsules either - both the B58 and B70 had them. The rate gyros would lose track of the capsule orientation after a second or two and not know when to fire the chute (up or down, etc). Ivan Kinchelow got killed when his early downward-firing F104 ejection seat shot him into the ground (you were supposed to roll upside down first). Later F104s changed to upward firing seats. When in a critical situation, you don't necessarily have the time to do everything you need to. It would take a number of years of expensive design and testing to get any radical solution right and safe for the real world. This fantasy stuff is interesting since I have a lot of spare time.
Video of a rider getting blown off his bike at 200+ mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeRXI0XRNaI&feature=related
Another video of another Top Fuel bike rider getting blown off his bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USwwuonAKpY
Dealing with the world of facts, rather than unfounded speculation (to be polite), the only available data (video of Top Fuel bike riders getting blown off their bikes at 200 mph) shows the rider drag chute would have ample time and optimal attitude for deployment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vT5MSWi9GU
Early in this video (Waco, 1989) is good footage of deployment of an aerodynamic decelerator on a drag boat driver.
Huh, that's funny. It shows the driver NOT TUMBLING. And that's weird, it shows the chute NOT WRAPPED AROUND THE DRIVER.
I've got how real events really happened in the real world. What have you got?
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As a new member of the Land Speed Racing community, I appreciate this site as a source of information. Our car is being built in my garage with the knowledge and exprience gleaned from this site extremely valuable, practical, and helpful. My interest is in learning from those who have "done it."
Those interested in theory, new technologies, "what ifs". etc. would certainly enjoy a dedicated posting area for discussion.
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"I say we start one for Warner first and see how THAT goes over."
That would be fine with me as long as you promise to put me on your ignore button.
DW
PS: When will you answer my direct questions with direct answers?
DW
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As a new member of the Land Speed Racing community, I appreciate this site as a source of information. Our car is being built in my garage with the knowledge and exprience gleaned from this site extremely valuable, practical, and helpful. My interest is in learning from those who have "done it."
Those interested in theory, new technologies, "what ifs". etc. would certainly enjoy a dedicated posting area for discussion.
Haven't talked a whole lot about theory or new technology. Just stuff that hasn't been done much or seen in land speed racing.
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When I went to new employee orientation at Edwards AFB (the Air Force Flight Test Center) in 1959, we were shown 30 minutes of people getting killed while testing new unproven stuff like aircraft, ejection seats, parachutes, etc. The moral is that there is risk doing new stuff no matter how many engineers and other scientists have studied and designed it. It's even more risky when regular people do it, so I suspect LSR types eagerly read about new stuff, but are (rightly) wary to actually try it.
To do things right, it takes a lot of time and resources which an average person like me doesn't have. Another alternative is a SWAG (for the bravest among us), which generally results in a SNAFU. Or do it thoughtfully, slowly, carefully and for little cash.
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What you dont have is anything that has happened during an LSR run at Bonneville or anyother LSR venue. So it makes it not really relevant, no matter how many times you repost the same old stuff. So IMHO that makes it irrelevant and redundant.
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I personally enjoy seeing Ratliff's stuff, and I like to learn something new to me even if it's old and maybe not relevant. The rocket info is interesting, and I wonder how many people running rocket cars knew about the ME-163 rocket plane and its propensity to melt the pilot if they got a fuel leak using the same fuel used in the cars. Having accidentally inhaled a good whiff of nitromethane once, I am glad I never got close to a rocket car. I guess I should start work on my Harley Hummer LSR bike, so this it it for me.
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What you dont have is anything that has happened during an LSR run at Bonneville or anyother LSR venue. So it makes it not really relevant, no matter how many times you repost the same old stuff. So IMHO that makes it irrelevant and redundant.
"A wise man expects the unexpected"
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What you dont have is anything that has happened during an LSR run at Bonneville or anyother LSR venue. So it makes it not really relevant, no matter how many times you repost the same old stuff. So IMHO that makes it irrelevant and redundant.
Back in the seventies, Top Fuel drag racers didn't think rocket dragsters were relevant to them.
In the early eighties, when Top Fuel cars consistently began running over 250 mph, they discovered why rocket racers never ran moped front tires.
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What do you mean by "moped" tires
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What do you mean by "moped" tires
I mean a class of low-powered motorized vehicle under 50cc, generally two-wheeled.
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And this has what to do with LSR.
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What tires are you refering to specificaly
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And this has what to do with LSR.
Top Fuel dragsters aren't supposed to be "LSR" either, but you sure see a lot of cars that look like them at El Mirage and Bonneville.
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What tires are you refering to specificaly
Before Goodyear developed a real race front tire for Top Fuel and dragsters in general, Avon was the popular brand.
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What tires did the rocket racers use in the 70's?
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I personally enjoy seeing Ratliff's stuff, and I like to learn something new to me even if it's old and maybe not relevant. The rocket info is interesting, and I wonder how many people running rocket cars knew about the ME-163 rocket plane and its propensity to melt the pilot if they got a fuel leak using the same fuel used in the cars. Having accidentally inhaled a good whiff of nitromethane once, I am glad I never got close to a rocket car. I guess I should start work on my Harley Hummer LSR bike, so this it it for me.
The really brave guys were the russkies who test flew a rocket fighter prototype that burned nitric acid and kerosene.
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What tires did the rocket racers use in the 70's?
At first, they ran Goodyear Funny Car front runners at both ends of the car then later, when NHRA mandated a minimum width for the rear tires, Indy car slicks on the back.
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John, add me to your list. cant take it anymore
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John, add me to your list. cant take it anymore
Fred,
You are lucky number 15 then, we once had 24...ah, the good old days..I remember it like it was just last month...oh wait it was :-o
BTW, the only time you will see his drivel is when someone "quotes" him and it displays his rants...Fred, you want me to make some pistons for you in 82.5mm and have a cylinder done for you in the correct size for a future event..?
If so send me a PM
J
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John, add me to your list. cant take it anymore
Fred,
You are lucky number 15 then, we once had 24...ah, the good old days..I remember it like it was just last month...oh wait it was :-o
BTW, the only time you will see his drivel is when someone "quotes" him and it displays his rants...Fred, you want me to make some pistons for you in 82.5mm and have a cylinder done for you in the correct size for a future event..?
If so send me a PM
J
You realize, of course, you use the term "rant" in a sense not known in the English language?
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You will come to a stop whether or not you have a drag chute. Without one, you will decelerate at 1 to 2 Gs on the salt and probably a G or so higher on pavement due to higher coefficient of friction. At Bonneville, this translates to sliding 600 ft or so from 150mph. The G force depends on how slippery your costume is and how much flailing of arms, legs, and head is done - they tend to dig in. With a chute, you have the problem of it unfurling when you are sliding chute first. It will probably wrap around you and make a nice shroud for your body - at least you wouldn't have to watch the festivities. I wouldn't trust escape capsules either - both the B58 and B70 had them. The rate gyros would lose track of the capsule orientation after a second or two and not know when to fire the chute (up or down, etc). Ivan Kinchelow got killed when his early downward-firing F104 ejection seat shot him into the ground (you were supposed to roll upside down first). Later F104s changed to upward firing seats. When in a critical situation, you don't necessarily have the time to do everything you need to. It would take a number of years of expensive design and testing to get any radical solution right and safe for the real world. This fantasy stuff is interesting since I have a lot of spare time.
Thank you very much for this most excellent post!
(Please forgive my next one as I want a specific answer from a specific person!)
Deb
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Human reaction is irrelevant since deployment of the rider drag chute doesn't depend on the rider. It didn't depend either on the drag boat driver to release it.
Then why would you make this statement?
One of life's lessons which for many takes a long time to learn is when to let go. For example, LETTING GO OF THE FREAKING BIKE.
Clearly there must be a reaction involved in letting go!
And as always you are NOT answering my direct question. Please, explain to me how a chute is going to help a land speed racer if they go down with the bike and do not come apart from the bike until they are already on the ground WITH the bike? If the chute deploys automatically there has to be either separation or lean angle. If you are low siding, meaning you are going down with or under the bike, please explain to me how the chute will help without causing further injury?
I've seen the same video posted 18 times. Beating one example like a dead horse (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/beatdeadhorse.gif)
That person flew off of the back of the bike. I'm not familiar with anyone racing a motorcycle at an LSR venue coming off the back of the bike. I've heard of low sides, going down with/under the bike. I've heard of high sides, going over the top of the bike. And we've seen Cook hop off the top/side of the bike and get hung up on the peg. In which case a chute would absolutely have caused additional damage as he would never have gotten away from the bike.
Granted a high side (over the top) departure MAY benefit from a chute, depending on direction of rider, bike & chute deployment but what I'm trying to extract from your vast knowledge vault is WHAT are the potential benefits and down falls of using a chute during a low side get off?
I'm waiting for a direct answer from you Mr. Ratliff and I will not let up until I get a direct answer from you.
Debbie
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You realize, of course, you use the term "rant" in a sense not known in the English language?
You're F'n kidding right?
Our fearless leader holds the title of grammer police on this site.
Please refrain from grammatical, spelling and in proper comma use posts.
We already have someone on the payroll for that position.
:-D
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Our fearless leader holds the title of grammer police on this site.
We know you meant to say "grammar police".
Carry on.
- The Spelling Police
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Our fearless leader holds the title of grammer police on this site.
We know you meant to say "grammar police".
Carry on.
- The Spelling Police
What makes you so shure? 8-)
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Well, since you asked -- the dictionary in my Imac says that rant; is a verb, meaning to "speak or shout at length in a wild impassioned way; a noun, meaning a spell of ranting; a tirade. The word derives from the 16th century Dutch (in the sense [behave in a boisterous way]): from the Dutch ranten, talk nonsense, rave.
Based on this, Franklin is right -- but I don't think he meant to be so. That is, if JN had said that "when someone quotes him and HE displays his rants..." (emphasis mine). Point: Noonan.
And sorry Deb, but the spelling policeman is right -- it's grammar. Send your remuneration to the website.
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ppssttt.... SSS, I was trying to keep you employed! If I don't drop my spleling, gramter and, comma errors in here how will you earn your keep?
:evil:
Deb
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I thought I was pretty open minded. I'm going to have to join the "ignore" bunch
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Must be past his bed time. You old guys go to bed early! :-P
See y'all tomorrow, same bat time, same bat channel.
Any bets on if I'll get my answer?
8-)
Deb
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Won't happen Deb,
DW
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I thought I was pretty open minded. I'm going to have to join the "ignore" bunch
Wow,
Up to 18 now, well that is better than having members leave because of his BS
Now where is that little ignore image...oh there it is...
]
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/1i1i1i/ignore.gif) <~~~from John 8-)
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Deb, it is more fun the wrestle a pig than a rat.... good luck getting any direct answers....
BTW, did you know that skydiving fatalities dropped over 98% after the invention of the parachute.... :roll: so it should be used by everyone, I now wear one when I walk the dog... :-D
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This thread is about as enlightening as watching Maury Povich or Jerry Springer.
I don't know what's more depressing - watching the audience yell at the guest, the guest yelling back to the audience, or the fact that we're all watching it.
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Deb and others that have commented about the Ron Cook racing incident.
Ron's accident where he appears to jump off the bike and gets his leg caught is fairly accurate however not 100 % account of the truth as told to me by Ron and also by knowing about the bike he was riding at the time.
Ron was one of the reasons I got involved in LSR and was one of the first LSR folks I met back in the mid 90's.
I sponsored Ron when I worked at Arias and Ron was one of the best "sponsored" riders we had, best return on investment (ROI) than any other bike racer, he went the extra mile to make a company happy and aware of his results (good and bad)
Ron did try to extract himself from the bike (old KZ Kawasaki) as the bike was in a nasty head-shake and while Ron was attempting to remove himself from the bike he "knew was going to wreck" got his left leg/boot caught not on the foot peg, it was caught on the tail section area and dragged him about a 1/4 of a mile (from what I remember) until he rolled on to the front of his helmet and not only did his leg free itself from the bike the bike from what I remember the bike only "crashed" when an SCTA volunteer drove next to it and kicked it over while it was running about 20 mph as the "deadmans" switch was not correctly hooked up so the bike had continued on slight power once Ron was separated from the bike.
I just spoke with Ron two weeks ago checking up on him and he is doing fine and back to work as well.
John
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This thread is about as enlightening as watching Maury Povich or Jerry Springer.
I don't know what's more depressing - watching the audience yell at the guest, the guest yelling back to the audience, or the fact that we're all watching it.
I do not expect this to go past 75 posts, it will either be locked or the subject in question will be tossed out with yesterdays garbage.
J
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Guest
Pissing Contests
« Sent to: Blue on: July 09, 2008, 04:13:57 PM »
Right now you're coming off as an egotist more interested in a pissing contest with a grad student than someone interested in an informed discussion about what the rest of us have already said.
... Then Eric Ahlstrom, a degreed aeronautical engineer who has worked extensively with aerodynamic decelerators and used to race superbikes, said rider drag chutes were a good idea.
Ahh, it so nice to be so loved and so hated.
FYI Ratliff: Your information and the opinions you derive from that history are wrong or obsolete over 90% of the time. I do not agree with you in any way, shape, or form. That you occasionally manage to offer an unqualified, unresearched opinion of someone else's invention that someone agrees with does not make you any smarter. By your own admission, rider chutes are 30 years old; what took you so long?
We're done here. Many have tried to wrestle this pig and all we are is dirty while he continues to make the same irrational squeeling noises over and over and over again. I do not think that my departure from this board is any great loss for LSR, but I will miss some of the more innovative types and I will be at Speed Week this year to offer advice and opinions where they are asked for. And ONLY where they are asked for.
I will leave my profile up for a week so that anyone who wants my email can get it.
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Deb and others that have commented about the Ron Cook racing incident...
John,
Thanks for this information. I guess I "ASSumed" it was a footpeg and I don't recall ever hearing any different until now.
I'll have to find and rewatch that video with this new information in mind. I guess in the big picture it doesn't change anything
but I do like to have the details most accurate in my own mind and truly appreciate the clarification.
I'm also glad to hear he's back to work. How is his overall health now? What are his ongoing issues, if any, from the second wreck?
Deb
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So how many more knowledable active participating RACERS/CREW do we have to loose in order that others can keep the opportunity to read ratliff's posts?
How can we collectively value the posts and opinions of someone who admittedly hasn't been to ANY LSR venue in many years, who's only contribution is second hand or more distant knowledge that can't be applied directly to LSR? I'm glad some of you find him informative or entertaining enough to tell Jon that you think he should stay. I'm not one of them. I've asked repeatedly to discuss a specific real situation and how a so called safety item he is insisting can help can be applied to LSR without further harm to the participant and he can't even reasonably or generally debate that specific item. I am honestly trying to get his view and opinion but it seem apparent to me that he doesn't have one unless it fits the specific situation for which he has a back-up video.
He's been back for a day and already has 59 or more posts.
I feel like we've been forced to trade JackD for ratliff. Maybe many of you didn't like JackD either but at least he's been in the game and has real applicable knowledge he was willing to share or help lead you to the answer.
This is a sad sad day for lr.com. I honestly don't want to see ratliff stay. He's disruptive and completely and repeatedly lacks the ability to stay on topic. If he's going to stay and have his own section I think he should be blocked from posting in other sections. Why can't we just post his email address for people to contact him and wish him fairwell. Why doesn't he start his own forum. Yahoo & MSN have them for free that anyone that can use the internet can set up.
All we've accomplished here is to give the screaming brat in Walmart more attention and candy while the kids that are behaving get punished. I guess it's just another sad sign of the times.
For those of you that have to leave because you just can't take it anymore (my husband included) I'm really sad and will miss them. I want them all to stay because it's like loosing a family member. I try to learn from everyone so anyone that goes is one less thing I have the opportunity to learn. I love this sport for what it is and not for any of the stupid titles. I'm proud of my accomplishments but if I never do another noteworthy thing in this venue I'm still going to be around and a part of it and still hoping to continue to learn. I wish everyone could find a way to stay but I understand the ones that can't. I'll miss those of you going just as much as I miss JackD. :cry:
Ok, back to bed for me.
Nighty nite!
I hope tomorrow is a better day.
Debbie
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So how many more knowledable active participating RACERS/CREW do we have to loose in order that others can keep the opportunity to read ratliff's posts?
How can we collectively value the posts and opinions of someone who admittedly hasn't been to ANY LSR venue in many years, who's only contribution is second hand or more distant knowledge that can't be applied directly to LSR? I'm glad some of you find him informative or entertaining enough to tell Jon that you think he should stay. I'm not one of them. I've asked repeatedly to discuss a specific real situation and how a so called safety item he is insisting can help can be applied to LSR without further harm to the participant and he can't even reasonably or generally debate that specific item. I am honestly trying to get his view and opinion but it seem apparent to me that he doesn't have one unless it fits the specific situation for which he has a back-up video.
He's been back for a day and already has 59 or more posts.
I feel like we've been forced to trade JackD for ratliff. Maybe many of you didn't like JackD either but at least he's been in the game and has real applicable knowledge he was willing to share or help lead you to the answer.
This is a sad sad day for lr.com. I honestly don't want to see ratliff stay. He's disruptive and completely and repeatedly lacks the ability to stay on topic. If he's going to stay and have his own section I think he should be blocked from posting in other sections. Why can't we just post his email address for people to contact him and wish him fairwell. Why doesn't he start his own forum. Yahoo & MSN have them for free that anyone that can use the internet can set up.
All we've accomplished here is to give the screaming brat in Walmart more attention and candy while the kids that are behaving get punished. I guess it's just another sad sign of the times.
For those of you that have to leave because you just can't take it anymore (my husband included) I'm really sad and will miss them. I want them all to stay because it's like loosing a family member. I try to learn from everyone so anyone that goes is one less thing I have the opportunity to learn. I love this sport for what it is and not for any of the stupid titles. I'm proud of my accomplishments but if I never do another noteworthy thing in this venue I'm still going to be around and a part of it and still hoping to continue to learn. I wish everyone could find a way to stay but I understand the ones that can't. I'll miss those of you going just as much as I miss JackD. :cry:
Ok, back to bed for me.
Nighty nite!
I hope tomorrow is a better day.
Debbie
In October of 1997, I learned I had been on the right track for a practical approach to a supersonic jet car when in late summer of 1983 I had made a series of drawings exploring various configurations based on a fuselage with twin forward mounted engines.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4108.0.html
In July of 1999, when my interview by Bret Kepner was published in the October edition of Drag Racing USA (formerly Super Stock) magazine, I was, without being prompted by further incidents of injuries or deaths, right about deficiencies in driver protection in Top Fuel cars.
http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Dec%202001/SOD-121201.htm
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4249.msg56065.html#msg56065
And although it hasn't been tried yet in land speed racing, I know a nonairbreathing turbine car would be the ultimate in wheel-driven speed.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4010.0.html
So, outside of what parts to buy and which engine builder to use, what big thing have you been right about?
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So, outside of what parts to buy and which engine builder to use, what big thing have you been right about?
1] You lack the ability to answer a direct question from myself and others as it relates to LAND SPEED RACING. You won’t even respond to the most simplistic question that merely requires a yes or no answer.
2] You lack the ability to discuss LAND SPEED RACING topics in their own right if you can not refer to something that someone else did at some other time (usually too many years ago) that was done in some other venue that can't be related to LAND SPEED RACING.
3] Some of what you post MIGHT be able to be related to LAND SPEED RACING but because you rely solely on what other people have done in a given situation you lack the ability to brainstorm the practical use of what ever you are preaching as it possibly could be used for LAND SPEED RACING.
4] You lack the ability to stay on topic (LAND SPEED RACING) in EVERY post.
5] Because of your incessant drivel many experienced, valued current LAND SPEED racers and/or crew have left this board or now refuse to post. Consequently your self imposed importance to LAND SPEED RACING has cost many of us valued information and help in the forum of our preference.
6] You adamantly REFUSE to "play by the rules" on this board and in regards to LAND SPEED RACING. You don't want to race under the current sanctioned rules and in fact the only vehicle that I have knowledge of you building in the recent past is a vehicle that CAN NOT be run under the sanctioning bodies of most of the LAND SPEED RACING venues.
7] As of 9:48am EST 7/25/08 21 current members have you on ignore.
8] You don't have a flipping clue who I am, what I've done, what I’ve contributed, what I've accomplished or for that matter who my engine builder is! :roll:
9] You STILL have not answered my direct and repeated question to you on if and how a parachute can help a motorcyclist if they were to suffer a low side crash while LAND SPEED RACING without the parachute causing further damage then if it were not worn.
There is so much more I could go on for days and days and days but I have ZERO interest in marketing myself to you.
I'm really not sure if you've contributed anything positive to this board but even if you HAVE the fact that you're clobbering it up with gibberish, unrelated, non-applicable, off topic posts negates to me and many others anything positive you might possibly have contributed.
If you haven't been to the salt flats in years and you seem to have no intention of going in the future then why would you continue to liter our boards with you diatribe? Create your own message board or web site in tribute to the all mighty all knowing Franklin Ratliff and let your fans and followers come to you! In fact I think a web site is the best fit for you because you can continue your all knowing dictatorship on your vast array of topics without the need for response from others or defense of your posting. I promise I will not follow YOU and litter YOUR board.
And now I will sit and wait for my answer to #9.
Debbie
10] You will not appropriately respond to this post and will most likely correct my grammar, spelling or opinion rather then deal with the topic at hand.
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So, outside of what parts to buy and which engine builder to use, what big thing have you been right about?
1] You lack the ability to answer a direct question from myself and others as it relates to LAND SPEED RACING. You won’t even respond to the most simplistic question that merely requires a yes or no answer.
2] You lack the ability to discuss LAND SPEED RACING topics in their own right if you can not refer to something that someone else did at some other time (usually too many years ago) that was done in some other venue that can't be related to LAND SPEED RACING.
3] Some of what you post MIGHT be able to be related to LAND SPEED RACING but because you rely solely on what other people have done in a given situation you lack the ability to brainstorm the practical use of what ever you are preaching as it possibly could be used for LAND SPEED RACING.
4] You lack the ability to stay on topic (LAND SPEED RACING) in EVERY post.
5] Because of your incessant drivel many experienced, valued current LAND SPEED racers and/or crew have left this board or now refuse to post. Consequently your self imposed importance to LAND SPEED RACING has cost many of us valued information and help in the forum of our preference.
6] You adamantly REFUSE to "play by the rules" on this board and in regards to LAND SPEED RACING. You don't want to race under the current sanctioned rules and in fact the only vehicle that I have knowledge of you building in the recent past is a vehicle that CAN NOT be run under the sanctioning bodies of most of the LAND SPEED RACING venues.
7] As of 9:48am EST 7/25/08 21 current members have you on ignore.
8] You don't have a flipping clue who I am, what I've done, what I’ve contributed, what I've accomplished or for that matter who my engine builder is! :roll:
9] You STILL have not answered my direct and repeated question to you on if and how a parachute can help a motorcyclist if they were to suffer a low side crash while LAND SPEED RACING without the parachute causing further damage then if it were not worn.
There is so much more I could go on for days and days and days but I have ZERO interest in marketing myself to you.
I'm really not sure if you've contributed anything positive to this board but even if you HAVE the fact that you're clobbering it up with gibberish, unrelated, non-applicable, off topic posts negates to me and many others anything positive you might possibly have contributed.
If you haven't been to the salt flats in years and you seem to have no intention of going in the future then why would you continue to liter our boards with you diatribe? Create your own message board or web site in tribute to the all mighty all knowing Franklin Ratliff and let your fans and followers come to you! In fact I think a web site is the best fit for you because you can continue your all knowing dictatorship on your vast array of topics without the need for response from others or defense of your posting. I promise I will not follow YOU and litter YOUR board.
And now I will sit and wait for my answer to #9.
Debbie
10] You will not appropriately respond to this post and will most likely correct my grammar, spelling or opinion rather then deal with the topic at hand.
First, I explained how rider drag chutes were developed thirty years ago and that twenty six years ago they saved someone from any significant injury (INCLUDING BROKEN BONES) after departing a bike at over 200 mph. Then I provided a link to a video of one deploying from a Top Fuel drag boat. Then Eric Ahlstrom, a degreed aeronautical engineer who has worked extensively with aerodynamic decelerators and used to race superbikes, said rider drag chutes were a good idea. Then I provided links to videos of two Top Fuel bike riders getting blown off their bikes at 200 mph. YOU GOT YOUR ANSWER. IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED.
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First, I explained how rider drag chutes were developed thirty years ago and that twenty six years ago they saved someone from any significant injury (INCLUDING BROKEN BONES) after departing a bike at over 200 mph. Then I provided a link to a video of one deploying from a Top Fuel drag boat. Then Eric Ahlstrom, a degreed aeronautical engineer who has worked extensively with aerodynamic decelerators and used to race superbikes, said rider drag chutes were a good idea. Then I provided links to videos of two Top Fuel bike riders getting blown off their bikes at 200 mph. YOU GOT YOUR ANSWER. IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED.
NO I HAVEN'T GOTTEN MY ANSWER because not ONE of your examples came off of the BIKE at a significant lean angle on the bike or under it. Go back and review what you are quoting and show me ONE example of a RIDER being UNDER a bike that is on the ground or at a significant lean angle whereby they will land at least partially under the bike. (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/batting_eyelashes.gif)
If you don't have this data or you don't know the answer then just say it so we can all move on knowing that you just don't know. :roll:
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First, I explained how rider drag chutes were developed thirty years ago and that twenty six years ago they saved someone from any significant injury (INCLUDING BROKEN BONES) after departing a bike at over 200 mph. Then I provided a link to a video of one deploying from a Top Fuel drag boat. Then Eric Ahlstrom, a degreed aeronautical engineer who has worked extensively with aerodynamic decelerators and used to race superbikes, said rider drag chutes were a good idea. Then I provided links to videos of two Top Fuel bike riders getting blown off their bikes at 200 mph. YOU GOT YOUR ANSWER. IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED.
So have you preached this to the drag racers, are any of them following your recommendations.... oh yea, you haven't made a recommendation you have just been living your racing vicariously through the actions of others. Maybe you should re-read Eric before you use him as a character witness
FYI Ratliff: Your information and the opinions you derive from that history are wrong or obsolete over 90% of the time. I do not agree with you in any way, shape, or form. That you occasionally manage to offer an unqualified, unresearched opinion of someone else's invention that someone agrees with does not make you any smarter. By your own admission, rider chutes are 30 years old; what took you so long?
We're done here. Many have tried to wrestle this pig and all we are is dirty while he continues to make the same irrational squeeling noises over and over and over again.
So to summarize what you have to say it sounds like blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...
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Okay, folks -- I'm sorry to have to have done it, but I've removed Franklin Ratliff's permission to be a member of this forum. I'd request the rest of you to return to your regular posts and not discuss what might have been or what should have been.
Best regards,
Jon
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First, I explained how rider drag chutes were developed thirty years ago and that twenty six years ago they saved someone from any significant injury (INCLUDING BROKEN BONES) after departing a bike at over 200 mph. Then I provided a link to a video of one deploying from a Top Fuel drag boat. Then Eric Ahlstrom, a degreed aeronautical engineer who has worked extensively with aerodynamic decelerators and used to race superbikes, said rider drag chutes were a good idea. Then I provided links to videos of two Top Fuel bike riders getting blown off their bikes at 200 mph. YOU GOT YOUR ANSWER. IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED.
NO I HAVEN'T GOTTEN MY ANSWER because not ONE of your examples came off of the BIKE at a significant lean angle on the bike or under it. Go back and review what you are quoting and show me ONE example of a RIDER being UNDER a bike that is on the ground or at a significant lean angle whereby they will land at least partially under the bike. (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/batting_eyelashes.gif)
If you don't have this data or you don't know the answer then just say it so we can all move on knowing that you just don't know. :roll:
You have yet to define what is "land speed" and what is not "land speed." The Kaplan-Carr 348 mph lakester was a converted Top Alcohol dragster. Many other lakesters have used the drag strip derived dragster configuration. Three rocket dragsters set FIA records at El Mirage and Bonneville.
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Okay, folks -- I'm sorry to have to have done it, but I've removed Franklin Ratliff's permission to be a member of this forum. I'd request the rest of you to return to your regular posts and not discuss what might have been or what should have been.
Best regards,
Jon
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/hug.gif) (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/kiss.gif)
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First, I explained how rider drag chutes were developed thirty years ago and that twenty six years ago they saved someone from any significant injury (INCLUDING BROKEN BONES) after departing a bike at over 200 mph. Then I provided a link to a video of one deploying from a Top Fuel drag boat. Then Eric Ahlstrom, a degreed aeronautical engineer who has worked extensively with aerodynamic decelerators and used to race superbikes, said rider drag chutes were a good idea. Then I provided links to videos of two Top Fuel bike riders getting blown off their bikes at 200 mph. YOU GOT YOUR ANSWER. IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED.
NO I HAVEN'T GOTTEN MY ANSWER because not ONE of your examples came off of the BIKE at a significant lean angle on the bike or under it. Go back and review what you are quoting and show me ONE example of a RIDER being UNDER a bike that is on the ground or at a significant lean angle whereby they will land at least partially under the bike. (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/batting_eyelashes.gif)
If you don't have this data or you don't know the answer then just say it so we can all move on knowing that you just don't know. :roll:
You have yet to define what is "land speed" and what is not "land speed." The Kaplan-Carr 348 mph lakester was a converted Top Alcohol dragster. Many other lakesters have used the drag strip derived dragster configuration. Three rocket dragsters set FIA records at El Mirage and Bonneville.
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/loco.gif)
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First, I explained how rider drag chutes were developed thirty years ago and that twenty six years ago they saved someone from any significant injury (INCLUDING BROKEN BONES) after departing a bike at over 200 mph. Then I provided a link to a video of one deploying from a Top Fuel drag boat. Then Eric Ahlstrom, a degreed aeronautical engineer who has worked extensively with aerodynamic decelerators and used to race superbikes, said rider drag chutes were a good idea. Then I provided links to videos of two Top Fuel bike riders getting blown off their bikes at 200 mph. YOU GOT YOUR ANSWER. IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED.
So have you preached this to the drag racers, are any of them following your recommendations.... oh yea, you haven't made a recommendation you have just been living your racing vicariously through the actions of others. Maybe you should re-read Eric before you use him as a character witness
FYI Ratliff: Your information and the opinions you derive from that history are wrong or obsolete over 90% of the time. I do not agree with you in any way, shape, or form. That you occasionally manage to offer an unqualified, unresearched opinion of someone else's invention that someone agrees with does not make you any smarter. By your own admission, rider chutes are 30 years old; what took you so long?
We're done here. Many have tried to wrestle this pig and all we are is dirty while he continues to make the same irrational squeeling noises over and over and over again.
So to summarize what you have to say it sounds like blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...blaa...
http://www.draglist.com/artman/publish/phil_elliott/article_00724.shtml
Verheul and Swindahl were about 20 years ahead of me. NHRA didn't listen to them either. People died before NHRA started to change.
http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Dec%202001/SOD-121201.htm
Drag Racing Story of the Day!
Fire Protection and Cockpit Intrusion
(Letters to Dick Wells)
By Franklin Ratliff
Dick Wells is 25% of the Board of Directors of the NHRA.
The following e-mails relate to concepts I first publicly proposed during my interview with Bret Kepner, published in the October 1999 issue of Drag Racing USA, and which I've continued to promote in on-line forums such as Nitronic Research and Drag Racing Underground. FR
October 19th, 2001
Dear Mr. Wells,
As I pointed out in my September 5th letter (below), there is no good reason for drivers of fuel cars ever to be seriously burned again, even on tracks that don't have a safety crew the caliber of the NHRA Safety Safari.
To address cockpit intrusion problems in dragsters, I suggest double-frame construction for the cockpit portion of the frame. The exterior frame could use arched instead of flat frame members with the exterior frame mounted to the interior frame through chromemoly plate diaphragms to spread the load. The use of double-frame construction would also simplify the creation of fully enclosed driver capsules for Top Fuel cars since the space between the interior and exterior frames could be filled with insulation. I suggest making the transparent portion of the canopy as small as practical, perhaps using double-glazing with tempered Pyrex glass for the outside and quarter-inch polycarbonate for the inside.
To solve some of the driver egress problems associated with installing a fully enclosed driver capsule in a Funny Car, an opening could be left in the body. The capsule could be built to match the contour of the body so that the capsule actually serves as part of the body. Several months ago Brent Fanning of Udder Nonsense Racing pointed out to me that even in existing Funny Cars because the cockpit is relatively well sealed, ram air can be used to pressurize the cockpit and keep smoke out while the car is in motion.
Sincerely,
Franklin Ratliff
------------------
September 5th, 2001
Dear Mr. Wells,
Below is why over two years ago I first proposed the concept of an X-15 style fireproof capsule that even in a fully engulfed car would keep the driver insulated from the fire inside a breathable atmosphere.
"...As near as I can tell he went up in flames in his funny car just before the finish line, steered toward the wall, crossed over to the other side, hit the wall, went airborne and then came to rest just before the turnout. The Sheriff's crew chief Scott Mason was down at that end just after the Sheriff's run and was the first on the scene. It took several minutes to get the body lifted and when they got in there, Keith's face shield was melted to his helmet. Scott pried one side up about two inches to try to get him some air. About that time, the safety crew showed up and tried to put out the fire. They had to cut the cage off so they could get Keith's helmet off..."
With regards to cockpit intrusion by another vehicle, there is a highly informative article on canopy and safety cell design in the September issue of POWERBOAT magazine. Unlimited hydro builders have, more than in any other motorsport, taken the lead in anticipating cockpit intrusion. With vehicles that can slice and dice a driver three different ways (propeller, rudder, AND skid fin) they have had some extra incentive.
Sincerely,
Franklin Ratliff
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This thread is about as enlightening as watching Maury Povich or Jerry Springer.
I don't know what's more depressing - watching the audience yell at the guest, the guest yelling back to the audience, or the fact that we're all watching it.
I do not expect this to go past 75 posts, it will either be locked or the subject in question will be tossed out with yesterdays garbage.
J
So I missed it by a few posts.
Thank you Jon!!
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Thank you.
J
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Deb, those smileys being all lovey-dovey made me pass coffee out my nose.....Thanks!! Jerry :-D
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Deb, I think your beatting a dead horse was the best. Were do you get all of those icons? Jon should get them for this forum.
As far as Franklin being gone, I guess the mass emails will start again, but a small price to pay.
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Opps sorry floydjer! :-D I was looking for a clean-up smiley to try to help you out. All I have is this (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/toiletpaper.gif)
And then I forgot I had this one! (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/panic.gif) Should have used it sooner! (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/rotfl.gif)
As for the smileys, I collect (download) them as I see them & like them. I am borrowing them for reuse from other people. All y'all are more then welcome to use what I have in my photobucket collection here: http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/
I update frequently and enjoy their injection into posts! It helps us understand the true intended meaning of the written word.
You just click in the box next to IMG CODE under the smiley you like & paste it directly into the reply window.
Jon is more then welcome to my collection however I don't OWN them per say, like I don't own the copyright to them so I'm not sure of the legalities of all that. My collection of them for personal use (and yours as well) shouldn't be a problem to the best of my knowledge as I/we aren't marketing them or making money on them. Jon on the other hand could/might so that may limit him actually importing them into the group directly.
Clear as mud? (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/beathead.gif)
Debbie
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Thank you