Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA Rules Questions => Topic started by: Oldfart on July 11, 2008, 08:44:24 PM
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I have a question about the sprocket edge to sprocket edge rule for the chain guard. The rear is easy, I have a Tiger racing guard to put on & it goes all the way back. Guy got me an extension piece to extend to the front, but I'm not sure how far front I need to go. For the front, if you get too close to the engine case & countershaft cover, I will have clearance issues as the suspension moves. How close do the Tech's like to see the guard to the cases? I have an 07 GSXR1000. Thanks to anyone that can educate me a bit. :?
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You're thinking correctly on the guard length rule. Any rule compliance that can "cause" an integrity issue or a possible failure (and ultimatley a component safety concern like suspension movement making a chain guard contact the rear of the frame which can stress the mounts of the guard itself), needs to have each bike looked at on a case by case (or in this situation, model by model) basis.
Your GSXR will only be required to have a guard extending from the rear edge of the rear sprocket, to the left rear vertical portion of your frame with the suspension compressed (IE: approximattely 1/2" to 1" short of going inside your frame while unloaded). Your frame and subframe in this case, creates vertical coverage with the required material for the rider's protection, so there are no compromises in the rule in doing so. You may also allow the guard to extend forward beyond the frame, but we reccomend to everyone in your situation to notch their guard (same distance would apply), so it does not rub on your frame.
Terrible reference pictures follow, but if you'd like close ups of either feel free to ask... and don't hesitate to call the number on the ECTA website regarding MC questions.
GSXR1000 with guard cut shy of frame:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/Todd/01%20GSXR%20-%20JPCRP/Misc%20setup%20pics/100_2225.jpg?t=1215832628)
GSX1300R with guard notched around frame:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/LSR/06%20Busa%20-%20LSR%201302/100_4963.jpg?t=1215831731)
Excellent question OldFart..... looking forward to meeting you if I haven't already.
Our outlook is that an effective chain gaurd should allow the chain to freely exit the bike while at the same time protect the rider and any components that could fail if struck by the chain(IE:the brake line, n2o lines, etc).
Todd
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Thanks, that was exactly what I needed to know. I haven't met anyone yet,(a newb to LSR), but have talked to John Noonan & Todd Dross, & Keith Turk on the phone for some help so far. I'm trying to do my best to show up fully prepared to pass tech , & rock & roll. I don't want to be the clueless new guy running around all weekend, like a chicken with it's head cut off, imposing on the experienced guys, trying to get my bike prepared. I talked to Keith about perfs on my leathers & Keith had asked me how he would remember me at the meet, I told him I would be, "The tall, skinny, a**hole", hopefully that will make me stand out? I think he will remember. Looking forward to meeting everyone in Sept. in Maxton. Bob Leesberg
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Thanks, Bob -- now there'll be at least two of us at Maxton.
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Nice to not be the ONLY one, but I don't feel as special now that I know there are two of us. Hopefully Keith can tell us apart still. :-D
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Hey Bob! Welcome aboard!
Here's a close up of the notched chainguard that Todd (NARider) wanted to post:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/Murf/100_0165.jpg)
BTW, NARIder is the Todd Dross you've spoken too! Looking forward to meeting
you in September! (You'll have to look down to find me! I'm a shrimp :-D)
Deb
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............BTW, NARIder is the Todd Dross you've spoken too! .........
That is the problem with these screen names, you have to remember two names for everyone and some of us have a hard time remembering one :cry:
Say DahMurf, if you get around to it would you introduce me to that Deb gal,
Sum
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Thanks for the pics Todd & Deb. Todd, appreciate your time the other day on the phone. I was surprised at the depth of your answer as NARIDER, now I know why. I thought about calling you again, but I'm trying really hard to not be a pain to anyone. I know how it is when it's volunteers doing all this. I guess the trophy girls (& maybe a trophy guy for Deb?) & all the huge purse money make it all worthwhile. It was the same thing kept me autocrossing. Cool video of you Deb, I caught that the other day now that I'm figuring out who's who. Thanks again for your help.
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sum i think that half of the posters on this site are in the witness protection program and afraid to give there names willie buchta
921 chicago ave
modesto calif.
95351
209-6816876 cell
209-6816876 home
willieworld@hotmail.com
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Willie, LSR is the perfect sport for those of us in witness protection as well as 10 Most Wanted... 8-) There is not at lot of pesky press exposure to expose our true identities... Why do you think Sum is hiding in Blanding
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you got a point --a good point willie
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sum i think that half of the posters on this site are in the witness protection program and afraid to give there names willie buchta..............
............and then there are those who don't post under even their board name or real name, but have to post under their wife's name........ :evil: 8-) :roll: :-P :? :-D,
Sum
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Sum, cut Willie some slack! He's already told us that his typing is challenged and that sometimes he uses Sheri's sign-in so he doesn't have to hunt-and-peck his way to his own sign-in. If we had to wait for him to find himself each time -- we'd still be waiting. . . See, Willie? Some of us do pay attention to your stuff.
Just for your comment I'm gonna do it -- I'm gonna go take a photo of a billboard that's been calling to me (for you) for quite a while. I'll get the photo up here later...
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sum i think that half of the posters on this site are in the witness protection program and afraid to give there names willie buchta..............
............and then there are those who don't post under even their board name or real name, but have to post under their wife's name........ :evil: 8-) :roll: :-P :? :-D,
Sum
OUCH :-P!
Sum ,
you seem a little PERKY Lately :evil:?
I do want to give you a "Shout-out" for your Website 8-)!
You have more Links{he even has my non-updated website link},Video's,and Cool Stuff then any other personal LSR website I know of ! :-o
Your House build up is pretty B$TCHIN Too :-D.
Now if I could only understand 50% of it's technical Stuff {I FLUNKED ALGEBRA :oops:} so I'll need the DVD version :|.
Now back to are chaingaurd subject :roll:?
Kaz.................
P.S
I Like this 1 ,and the bike is pretty FAST Too:-D!
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kaz what is the rule about streamlining in the naked class --like the bike in the pic you posted willie
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kaz what is the rule about streamlining in the naked class --like the bike in the pic you posted willie
willie,
The Worlds Fastest-AKA John Noonan would know them BETTER then Me so I'll let him explain? :?
That Bike was Raced in the ECTA at Maxton,and I don't know their rules compared to ours at the SCTA :mrgreen:?
It's WildBill's 246+mph 1st time out Turbo Busa with a Few Bell's and Whistles :roll:!
Hope i'll be ready by next week :|.
Kaz...............
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kaz what is the rule about streamlining in the naked class --like the bike in the pic you posted willie
willie,
The Worlds Fastest-AKA John Noonan would know them BETTER then Me so I'll let him explain? :?
That Bike was Raced in the ECTA at Maxton,and I don't know their rules compared to ours at the SCTA :mrgreen:?
It's WildBill's 246+mph 1st time out Turbo Busa with a Few Bell's and Whistles :roll:!
Hope i'll be ready by next week :|.
Kaz...............
Kaz & Willie
I cannot view the picture in question however if if it is Bill Warners bike it ran awesome speeds of 230, 240, 243 and 246 at the last Maxton meet and also was "loaned" to Scott Horner to complete the 3-peat of the naked 200mph club entry..Bonne, Elmo, Maxton..
The bike is legal for the ECTA and may also be legal for the SCTA, the battery would be the only thing in question as Bills bike is the most naked bike running :mrgreen: I have been at El Mirage when an inspector told a competitor that he could not run the ram air tubes in a naked class as the inspector felt they were an aerodynamic advantage.. :roll: and some inspectors have allowed lower air dams in the naked classes :roll:
Bill holds the fastest unfaired records in history period bar NONE!
He worked his azz off to get in to the Maxton 200mph club and did it harder than any bike racer I personally know of...on a Yamaha...and not some fancy FJ1200, R1, or some other sportbike, he did it on a V-Max, no nitrous, no Turbo, No supercharger...just wit, determination, hp and great riding. :mrgreen:
Nuff said...
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Yep, that big square block in the front is so much more aero than a tilted headlight.... :roll: I thought that bike was a lot more naked than most, and a nice job he did.
Ram air tubes... aero advantage, yea, they give the air a path through the motor...
Hope that wasn't the leader of the "World Finals Fairing Slaughter"
Back to subject... yep gotta have a chainguard
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I teched Bill's turbo naked 'Busa (along with a few others) and the battery in front wouldn't be considered aero - because of its vertical front side. If the battery were slanted -- top to the rear, most likely -- we might have had some reason to question the location of it, but because it presents a flat surface I let it go without more than a good chuckle with Bill. I made the call because of a similar question on my bike at Bonneville a few years ago -- when I had the ECU and other hardware mounted inside the nose piece of my nitrous bike. I removed said fiberglass and went to tech for a naked bike run, and Russ O'Daly agreed that the surfaces being parallel or perpendicular to the ground did not offer any aero advantage, and that therefore the installation did not violate the no-streamlining rules. I probably could even find that statement on paper if you wanted me to do so.
As for the rounded shape of the tubes running into and out of the intercooler -- those'd be more problematic if someone protested 'em. The ram air tubes? I've been allowed to run 'em on a naked bike sometimes, I've been asked to remove 'em on a naked bike sometimes. That particular call would again be up for discussion in case of a protest, but we didn't feel they violated the rule (while doing the safety inspection) enough to suggest that Bill remove or modify them.
By the way -- what's this question got to do with chain guards?
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kaz what is the rule about streamlining in the naked class --like the bike in the pic you posted willie
I think Willie is refuring to the front fender. This fender would NOT pass FIM. Since it is the stock Busa fender, it passes (should) everywhere else. I myself do not like the fender and as soon as I am able to replace it with a legal FIM fender, I will.
If I could find a differant spot for the battery, I would. I believe it is robbing me of speed. My brother said he has the handle off my great uncles barn door and wants to mount it on the front of the battery. I told him to stay the hell away from my bike.
As for the chain guard, it is an Ace Hardwear special and works very well. I tore the chain apart at the second meet and the guard did its job.
Bill
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.............................If I could find a different spot for the battery, I would.............
(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4204.0;attach=5556;image)
Get a dry cell type like the optima, but smaller and mount it on it's side longways above the rear tire under the back fender brace. You don't have that much suspension travel back there do you? Might even be able to use the current one back there straight up and down long ways in the same area.
Congrats on your accomplishments,
Sum
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Sum,
He may be better off running it where it is as with Texas and Maxton he will have an advantage of the added weight in front with keeping the bike from wheelying as easy versus not having the added weight..
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I'm rereading old posts. I would like to know why Bill's front fender wouldn't pass FIM. Someone please enlighten me.
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I'm rereading old posts. I would like to know why Bill's front fender wouldn't pass FIM. Someone please enlighten me.
Jon,
It would pass in a partially streamlined class however it might be considered "streamlining forward of the rider" at a naked FIM record attempt.
J
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Okay -- that makes sense. I didn't think of the naked bike/FIM consideration, that's all.
See you in a couple of weeks?
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Okay -- that makes sense. I didn't think of the naked bike/FIM consideration, that's all.
See you in a couple of weeks?
You got it...I will be driving the car and riding a bike or two..
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I'm rereading old posts. I would like to know why Bill's front fender wouldn't pass FIM. Someone please enlighten me.
Hi SSS,
I know it would not pass FIM naked, because the FIM inspector told me so at BUB '07 when that fender was on the Vmax. He did show me a fender that would, I think it was on a Buell, meaning there can be a little plastic down the fork legs but not much. I have a R1 fender for the Vmax that I believe would pass. Funny thing about that R1 fender.... Had it on in April '07, went 200mph. Ran the rest of the year with the Busa fender pictured above and never could hit 200 again.....until the Oct. meet when I put the YAMAHA R1 fender back on and ran 201mph.
Oh I'll be changing this Busa fender in the future!!! Plus I have a feeling that like the cut plastics at the end of last year, people will be cutting fenders this year.(I hope they just don't run no fender, I really believe that is DANGEROUS!)
Bill
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bill im not traveling the speeds you guys are but i will one day and wondered why you think no front fender is dangerous---some times things that look aero arnt thanks willie buchta
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bill im not traveling the speeds you guys are but i will one day and wondered why you think no front fender is dangerous---some times things that look aero arnt thanks willie buchta
The front wheel is flinging stuff all over... into the bike, up and into your face... NOT safe at any speed. I sure wish I had the pic of scott Horner after his run with no front fender.
Bill
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i ran at SW abd WF and had no fenders on 2 wheels (sidecar and front ) and never had a problem that a garden sprayer wouldnt take off the bike- didnt need any for me ---maybe it has to do with differant designs or something --did you run a front fender if so have you ran without one thanks willie buchta
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At Bonneville I sure want a fender to keep the flung stuff a bit more under control. I usually put some duct tape on the radiator where the flung salt hits it -- and remove the tape after a run. It's much easier and quicker than trying to wash the accumulation of salt out of the radiator. My fender doesn't go all the way down -- I'm still using a stock one, sorta like Bill's in appearance -- but might put some type of mudflap down there if I need to control the salt some more.