Landracing Forum

East Coast Timing Association => ECTA Rules Questions => Topic started by: JackB750 on May 19, 2008, 07:33:33 AM

Title: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: JackB750 on May 19, 2008, 07:33:33 AM: Hi All. I'm still pretty new to this whole LSR and ECTA thing so forgive me if I seem a little confused at times. Still, I have a question about non-supercharged bikes bumping into the supercharged classes (/BF, /BG). In the ECTA 2007 (and earlier I suppose) rules under the engines section (Ref VI-5 A 6 and 7; page 57) it says that "mechanically or exhaust driven supercharger is PERMITTED" I can see how this would allow an N/A bike to run there without fitting any turbo or supercharger hardware. However, in the (heavily changed) ECTA 2008 rules the rule book says (ref section 7.J.7 and 7.J.8; page 82) that a "supercharger or turbocharger is REQUIRED and must be mechanically or exhaust gas driven and must pressurize the intake system above atmospheric pressure." This seems to fairly clearly preclude competing in the forced induction classes without the required supercharger hardware. However I have seen, as recently as this past weekend, normally aspirated bikes running in the forced induction classes. Am I missing something? Is this maybe just a Maxton precedent that we're hanging on to? Thanks in advance for any input/insight and thanks Keith, Jon, Nancy, Joe, Tonya, Donna and everyone else that works so hard to keep the ECTA program ongoing. This past weekend was a blast and I look forward to participating for a long time!
Jack Broomall
Project 750 Assault
jhbfly@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Dean Los Angeles on May 19, 2008, 01:47:53 PM: Rules are there for a reason. Nah, nobody ever cheats, do they?

I vaguely remember somebody at Bonneville years ago running a heater blower from his truck (no boost) to get around the rules. "Pressure required" is to avoid that kind of thing.
Very tough to enforce. On a slow or open blown record you could duct tape a turbo on the side of the bike and get yourself a record.

There are some very fast normally aspirated bikes, and if they run in the blown class and set a record it should be disallowed in impound inspection. Rules should be followed. Because of that sort of thing, the SCTA rule book says "if an appropriate class exists, a vehicle shall run in that class". I'm not sure how the ECTA protest mechanism works, but that would be the next step. The SCTA rule book also says "All vehicles will run only in the lowest primary class/category for which they are legal."

In the drive to get a record, any record, some competitors, or should I say non-competitors will look at the thousands of combinations of classes out there and try to tweak things to their advantage. This is why the SCTA has established competitive minimums for classes. It's all been tried before.
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: bvillercr on May 19, 2008, 02:25:15 PM: You shouldn't fret the unblown guys, they do not have an advantage. They may although have the high dollar budgets to put a quality race engine together and compete with those of us that have blown engines and low dollar budgets. Like the Gas vs. fuel class the fuel class cannot run in the gas class but a gas class can run in a fuel class because they do not have an advantage. This is the only sense I can make of it. If the rules have been broken then it should not be allowed. :?
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: racer x on May 21, 2008, 10:14:40 PM: I am entered in MPS/G the record is faster than I have gone.I have gone faster than the MPS/BG record. Should I enter my bike in the MPS/BG catagory since I have already gone that fast? Even though I don't have a turbo?
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: John Noonan on May 21, 2008, 10:38:18 PM: Quote from: racer x on May 21, 2008, 10:14:40 PM
I am entered in MPS/G the record is faster than I have gone.I have gone faster than the MPS/BG record. Should I enter my bike in the MPS/BG catagory since I have already gone that fast? Even though I don't have a turbo?

Who holds the record and what is the speed you are referring to that is slower in a blown class than a gas all motor class?

Thanks,

J
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: racer x on May 22, 2008, 06:30:18 AM: ECTA recorsds. Mr Tom Schaefer Has both records MPS/BF-250-4 the record is 103.843 mph set in june 2007.
The MPS/F-250-4 record is 106.816 mph set in October 2006.
The fastes speed I have set is 104.720 mph in May 2008. Both records where set on a non supercharged bike. I am only conserned with speed .But a record would be nice.Thanks Eric
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: wfojohn on May 22, 2008, 06:38:25 PM: Help..... Jack's original post asking for clarification has been viewed 380 times up til now, with no definitave resolution, will some one from the ECTA please respond with the official answer. I have been following this anticipating it to be cleared up because I too have wondered about how it is allowed. Thanks, J.R.
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on May 22, 2008, 08:02:21 PM: Ok, I'll answer... but you asked for it.... (next post)
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on May 22, 2008, 08:07:13 PM: At the ECTA you are allowed to run up in motor class. There is something in the book that says no, because we for the most part use Bonneville rules. But somewhere in there we also state that you CAN run up in engine class which overrides the must have a blower to be blown statement. None the less, what we administer at the track is that yes you can run up in engine class without making a change.

So, you can run an unblown bike in a blown class just as Mr Tom did. If you're that close to the record I say go for it!

(many racers think if the blown bike can't go faster then the unblown bike then that's their problem! :mrgreen: )

Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sockjohn on May 22, 2008, 08:10:39 PM: I kind of fail to see the fun in setting a normally aspirated record, then changing class and going the same speed just to get a blown record. That newly set record would obviously be soft, and how long would it last?

get blown or get blown away....

:-D

Not my change of class money, so do what makes you happy and have fun no matter what that is.
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: wfojohn on May 22, 2008, 08:26:58 PM: Hey Deb,

Yes, and we took advantage of the next higher classes with the Mighty 100 last year but with the statements made on page 82 for 7J7 & 7J8 it would seem as wrong as putting an altered into production (Absurd Example), it just seems that it is overlooking defined and printed rules. Please understand I am willing to do either and I was seeing the above rules thinking it to be a mistake. Again, I only wanted written clarification.

Now to sweet talk ya a little... Damn girl, ya did good..congrats and tell Todd I said hello.

John Ritter
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on May 22, 2008, 10:24:40 PM: ECTA 2008 Rulebook
Page 8, Section 1, General Competition Requirements
1.B Classification
Sentence number 8; (which is actually the 3rd line on page 9)

Quote
With the ECTA only, vehicles may legally run in higher engine categories for their class.

It has been deemed by the ECTA that fuel is a higher engine category then gas and blown is a higher engine category then unblown.

Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on May 22, 2008, 10:38:01 PM: Quote from: sockjohn on May 22, 2008, 08:10:39 PM
I kind of fail to see the fun in setting a normally aspirated record, then changing class and going the same speed just to get a blown record. That newly set record would obviously be soft, and how long would it last?

For some people it only needs to last until the time slip is marked "new record"!
I was happy to go home with my 202 record but I can tell you if Steve ran the very next pass right behind me and upped it by 2mph, I would still be happy! :-D

Everyone has an opinion on this and they're all correct! :-D

I think everyone needs to do what works for them and if you can be nice to your fellow competitors then that's a mighty sportsman like thing to do.
I know one racer that won't top a record if they know it's that persons fastest speed record. I think that's very considerate.
Many of us running similar classes will each pick a class to run so we each can try to go home with a record. I think that's nice too.
Some are in it for the quantity of records and they're going home with as many as they can get regardless. That's their perogative. Sometimes that doesn't come across so nice but if you pay your money you're entitled to it.
This is all about top speed and if you're running the fastest (legally) then you deserve the record and everyone else competing will need to step up their game.
Just some of my thoughts.
Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: wfojohn on May 23, 2008, 10:32:46 AM: Hi Deb,
Read it, confusion cleared up.
Thanks
J.R.

ECTA 2008 Rulebook
Page 8, Section 1, General Competition Requirements
1.B Classification
Sentence number 8; (which is actually the 3rd line on page 9)

Quote
With the ECTA only, vehicles may legally run in higher engine categories for their class.

It has been deemed by the ECTA that fuel is a higher engine category then gas and blown is a higher engine category then unblown.

Deb

[/quote]
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Stan Back on May 23, 2008, 12:01:01 PM: How long could they last? The question is how long will it take to fill in all the blanks in all the classes that motorcycles have. How great can it feel to have a record(s) that's never been, and may never be, contested? I understand the reasoning -- it keeps the customers happy. But I'm glad the SCTA doesn't play by these rules -- except for they're creating a 1000 more "wheel-on-a-stick" classes.
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on May 23, 2008, 12:16:46 PM: The ECTA rules and the whole danged organization are relatively new -- and were set up with the idea of creating an interest in that geographical part of the country that didn't have a long tradition of land speed racing nor nostalgia for "roadsters". The way I understand it is that John Beckett and the other founding fathers of ECTA wanted to make the events more interesting to potential racers, and one way to do that is to offer a "record" to as many competitors as possible -- ergo the difference in class structure and class changing. If the ECTA rules aren't what you want to run under - then it's your prerogative to not go to Maxton to run. The ECTA rules are morphing, by decision of the directors, towards the SCTA rules - with the intent of making it easier for an ECTA-approved vehicle to race in an SCTA event. Stay tuned for the rest of this year, or for another few years, okay?
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: wfojohn on May 23, 2008, 01:02:55 PM: then it's your prerogative to not go to Maxton to run.

Jon,

We want them tyo run but if bumping out of class doen't feel right, then just run what you are built and teched for.

Personally I don't think we will ever bump up like we did last year, it was fun while doing it but as time has passed I am not a comfortable with it. My son who rides feels more okay about bumping up than I do so I will have to wait and see.

Hope to make a meet or two this year, the new shop and new equipment has consumed all my build time and money.

Stan, running Maxton, beyond a doubt is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

John Ritter
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on May 23, 2008, 01:04:23 PM: Two more thoughts in regards to Jon & Stan.

When the ECTA was young there weren't many competitors. Few competitors also means little money. Allowing one to run a single vehicle in mulitple classes helped to provide the money needed to keep the place running. Sure you can raise fees and get your income many other ways but the bottom line is that the members voted & that's the way they want to keep it, "regardless of how they do it out west"! ;) :-D

Stan, another reason people have opted to run multiple classes and run on open classes is to fill them up so that one day, sooner then later, the points race will be meaningful and based on actual increased speed achievement not on who can find the most open classes. Now I don't mean to pick on the people running the current points races, they're playing by the rules and that's how it should be. However, some of us look forward to the day when the points can actually reward real progress.

And Stan, I've set many records on open classes. Are you trying to tell me I shouldn't be proud of my achievement? Some of my records have been upped, but not by much. To me that means I didn't set a soft record. Somebody has to set the first record. Just because the class started as open doesn't mean it's set as soft. Just because some classes aren't widely popular doesn't mean they're not an achievement. Getting a ton of extra speed on a small cc turbo bike over the same small cc NA bike is not a common occurance. You don't get a lot of extra mph out of a small trubo. (heck, sometimes the weight of the turbo outweighs the hp gain & actually slows down the bike! :-o ) So, setting the turbo records with a non-turbo bike doesn't guarantee it's a soft record.

So Stan, if you don't like my records and you don't respect how I acheived them that's fine with me. You're welcome to join us or you can just keep playing with the SCTA but in all honesty, don't knock it until you try it. Bring something out to top my 50cc & 125cc records & show me just how slow I really am. 8-)

Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on May 23, 2008, 01:08:41 PM: There is nothing wrong with figuring your base class and only running in it. It's an honorable thing to do. It usually lasts as long as it can until the turbo bike shows up and sets records slower then your NA bike. Then you go WTF and start jumping classes to set the base as it should be and the bar where it needs to start. (Especially if the other team is cockey about it! :-D ) But it's all in how you like to play the game and what enables you to sleep at night.

To me it's all good as long as you're playing within the rules! When in Rome...

Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Dean Los Angeles on May 23, 2008, 03:43:04 PM: What you end up with is a record book full of cherry picked "records" that don't mean anything. Why not just have them pay the entry fee and mail them a record certificate? Don't hold races at all.

You are not far from doing that. The entire reason for running the correct class and nothing else is to have the records stand for something.

If there is a open blown 3000cc record and you run 87 mph on your 50cc Waxahatchi . . . You have records that stand for nothing.
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Stan Back on May 23, 2008, 03:49:42 PM: Deb --

I don't remember addressing you by name. I just talked about the whole practice. And, no, I don't know how your points system (nor the SCTA system) works. But from what you've stated, I guess it rewards the player that finds the most open records. I've been told it worked that way for some in the SCTA, too -- but they've partially addressed the problem with minimums, I guess.

But I wouldn't get AS MUCH satisfaction out of setting a record with no competition as I would setting a record where there are half a dozen competitors year after year. Your are certainly free to feel differently.

East is East and West is West -- and both games are played, and to some extent, ruled by the players. I know the venues are different and have differing histories. I even alluded to that. And if I were to play in your game, I'd want to follow your rules (and probably put some front brakes on, too).

Stan Back
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: willieworld on May 23, 2008, 05:01:16 PM: just for the record there are 24 chassis classes and 15 engine classes in A (special construction) motorcycle for a total of 360 classes in the sidecar class there are 12 frame classes and 15 engine classes for a total of 180 classes not 1000 ---at el mirage every class that doesnt have a record has a mininum and most of the mininums are set pretty high --for example the 500 cc sidecar pushrod fuel mininum at el mirage is 107 mph the record in the same class at bonneville is 97 mph --i use this example because my wife sheri ran in this class last week at el mirage --if you set a record its a record and not easily done-- at one point in time there were no records at bonneville someone had to be first -------willie buchta
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Dean Los Angeles on May 23, 2008, 07:13:18 PM: In the SCTA rule book there are 91 frame/engine classes and 15 displacement classes (ignoring steam/electric) for 1,365 total classes.

There are 482 records on the books at Bonneville. 53 of those are sidecar.

Plenty of open territory. This is why competitive minimums are necessary. If you start from 0.000 mph that 50cc Fraxahachi is looking like a good investment.
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on May 24, 2008, 04:52:20 PM: Minimums always seem like a great idea until it comes down to getting someone to actually sit down with every class and determine what they should be. Sure we could borrow the minimums from other venues but we'd still have to review them for application at our venue. What happens when the minimums are higher then our existing records, then what do we do? Nobody wants to do it and nobody wants to take the beating for doing it so we have what we have.

Back to setting records in open classes with "no" competition, I like LSR because I compete with myself. Every bike I've ever run at Maxton has been maxed out to the best of my ability. Even if nobody else rode the bike, I still know I'm maxed so why do I need someone else to validate what I've done? However, all the bikes I've run have been run by other people then myself and I've always ran at the top of its range. Not every bike I've run has been in contention for a record but that doesn't matter to me. Some have just been a stepping stone to the next level. But if you need competition & records to validate your runs then so be it.

Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Dan Stokes on July 09, 2008, 10:13:26 AM: The other problem with minimums is that it would put low-buck folks like me out of contention completely. My E/CPRO record (we're talking cars here) was a good faith effort to go as fast as I possibly could, given my budget. It's set at 97.7 (Jon Wennerberg driving) and that's the best I could get out of the car in that configuration. It was NOT a half-hearted effort of some jerk trying to game the system - it was the best I could do with the funds available, and we were able to get a track record. I think that's pretty cool. I've found a bit more money and when I get the new head/cam/carb/header combo sorted out, I'll make an equally good faith effort to bump it higher. I don't know the SCTA minimum for that class, but I'm pretty sure it would take way more money than I have, effectively putting me out of contention. I could run T/O, which is OK, but it IS kind of fun to get a record or two as you run, and I don't find anything wrong with that.

Dan
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Cajun Kid on July 09, 2008, 11:01:52 AM: Dan, once again I agree and go hard with your "E" motor...

If you need some HP in "E" let me know,, I have found the solution,,,,

Charles
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: 2fast4u2c on July 09, 2008, 11:15:35 AM: Quote from: DahMurf on May 22, 2008, 10:24:40 PM
ECTA 2008 Rulebook
Page 8, Section 1, General Competition Requirements
1.B Classification
Sentence number 8; (which is actually the 3rd line on page 9)

Quote
With the ECTA only, vehicles may legally run in higher engine categories for their class.

It has been deemed by the ECTA that fuel is a higher engine category then gas and blown is a higher engine category then unblown.

Deb

Deb, it was my understanding that running up in engine class just meant you could run in a higher cc class but not bike class. I can run in the 1650 / 2000 / 3000 & 3001+ but a MPS class bike can not run in the APS class unless it actually qualifies for that class.

If it's a blown class, you must have a blower of some type. Someone screwed up or the President authorized it at the meet.

Guy
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Dan Stokes on July 09, 2008, 11:21:10 AM: Charles -
I don't think you know my car. It's WAY low buck, and runs an inline six (250) not that fancy V-shaped thing that you have! 1978 Camaro with a copy of Keith's aero package. I scored a PES head (thanks, Terry) over last winter and am trying to get it all sorted out. Should be there in September w/car - I hope! At some point, you may want to stab your motor in my car and see what aero can do for your little SBC. We may need to find a 'chute!

Later
Dan
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Cajun Kid on July 09, 2008, 11:27:35 AM: Dan,,, I think you are correct... My lil "V" experiment may do wonders better in your car as the areo of my "brick" can not compete with your body style. But man I like the retro look of my Hotrods and the Vicky fits well in my stable.... I am thinking of using my motor in a 2nd. gen Camaro or Firebird for better speed and handling,, hmm Bonneville? Yeah I hope so for 09 in a slicker body.. The Vicky was just my "fun Entry" into LSR.... you guys have me hooked now... Oh if the June heat and 2.5 hours in line did not run me off, then lookout,, I'll be back !!!!

See ya in Sept.

Charles
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: fredvance on July 09, 2008, 12:26:27 PM: 2.5 hrs in line, thats hot lapping at Speedweek!! :-D
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: 1212FBGS on July 09, 2008, 03:38:14 PM: Guy
it wouild make sence, and not really hurt credibility, to allow jumping up a motor size class and "NOT" allow changing frame classes.... if i understand your statement of how you understanding the ECTA rules...let me ask you this.... what bike did you use to set your 4 streamliner records? or better yet, what bike did Guthrie use to set his 7 motorcycle streamliner records? sounds like chassis jumping is allowed too. Maybe ill come over with my Busa and enter it in a car class....oh wait maybe Guthrie cherrie picked them also :roll:
kr
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on July 09, 2008, 04:56:16 PM: My understanding is that all engine class run ups are allowed. I do understand that Bonneville requires a blower if running blown. I believe that ECTA will not require it however I don't think anyone has tried it yet. Most of the "real" blown records are getting high enough that most motor or fuel bikes can't top it anyway. We'd have to discuss with KT to get the actual ruling but I'd be really surprised if we "required" the blower. It's not in the nature of allowable engine run ups. (Same should apply for cars I would imagine)

MPS vs APS is a frame category change and that does NOW require a change.

The allowing of running a conventional bike in the streamliner category was done under the prior management under the argument of a rule loophole. (Not everyone agreed but once the ruling was made everyone ran those classes under the same rules) Those records have been retired this year thus allowing the owners of those records to still lay claim to an accomplishment under the rules at the time and to now better align the class rules with Bonneville and the intention of the ECTA less the loophole.

I wouldn't call bringing multiple vehicles to set multiple records in multiple classes "within the rules" cherry picking. Maybe you don't like him but without him the ECTA might not exist. If you want support picking on him you might want to pick a section that's not grateful to him for its very existence. And btw, he didn’t agree with running conventional bikes in the streamline class but why should he not run there when everyone else was!

:-)

Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Cajun Kid on July 09, 2008, 06:15:02 PM: Deb, I like the signature "Naked on Nitrous",,, I have never but hmmm maybe Naked on Vodka before LOL....

You go Girl !!!!

Hope to see you in September.

Charles
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sheribuchta on July 09, 2008, 06:21:55 PM: hey deb hope this finds you in good health--at an scta event if you run in a blown class you have to run a blower or turbocharger and it has to pressurize the intake system above atmospheric pressure willie buchta
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: dwarner on July 10, 2008, 12:44:04 AM: Jack is back, in disguise.

DW
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sheribuchta on July 10, 2008, 02:34:18 PM: scott i dont know how it is checked --i do know what the rules say--i keep a copy in the bathroom and read them on a daily basis --willie
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on July 10, 2008, 02:36:50 PM: Note to self, don't borrow Willie's rulebook! :evil:
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sheribuchta on July 10, 2008, 03:10:10 PM: i thought i made it clear that i was talking about the SCTA rule book --willie

deb i missed it rule book--bathroom --borrow-- got it --its been hot here 112 and bad air days from all of the smoke from the fires up north willie
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sheribuchta on July 10, 2008, 03:13:31 PM: hot
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on July 10, 2008, 04:43:46 PM: I gotcha darlin, it came through crystal clear in my air conditioned office!
When I SEE YOU in a month I will try to remember to NOT say,
Hey Willie, can I see your rulebook for a minute!?!

:-D

Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sheribuchta on July 10, 2008, 05:12:40 PM: if you do borrow it just make sure its not the ones with the pages missing willie
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sheribuchta on July 10, 2008, 06:18:17 PM: everyone i know this a ECTA thread so let me say this and im going to burst into flames---i would suggest that if you are planning to go to bonneville for speedweek you should buy a SCTA rule book --i can understand what you folks are doing to get the events there to make them pay for themselves --this year will be the 60th anniversary of the SCTA --you can not run up a class here.--nor can you run in a streamliner class unless you meet ALL of the rules in that class--the only one is you can run gas in the fuel class if you like if you do you probibly wont set a record--on an open class (no record) whatever you run if you are legal for that class you will get the record --for those of you who have never been to speedweek it works like this---go through tech (safety only) make your first pass (rookie run cant set a record or run over 150 mph)--- run 2 cant run over 175 (if you ran over 125 the first run) you can qualify for a record on your second run if its under 175 mph) go to impound if you ran faster than the record ---your bike is in impound until the next morning then you get your record run ---if the average of your 2 runs are higher than the record back to impound---this time they check to make sure you are in the right class and that you are legal for that class and the tech guys dont miss much if anything--if everything looks good you can pull the head off for a cc measurement-(some bikes they can measure through the spark plug hole) if everything is ok you will get the record-- before you do all of that if you have never raced at bonneville you have to go through rookie orientation --dont miss it or you will miss the first day of racing --its not as easy as you might think ---bring lots of shade --sunscreen and water just some thoughts hope to see you all at bonneville and put some faces to those names willie buchta poooffffff
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 10, 2008, 09:47:13 PM: Willie, with all due respect -- I think that more ECTA folks than you realize go to Bonneville and know the routine. And we know that Bville and El Mirage are different from one another in many ways, too. I read your post and thought for a couple of minutes and came up with 8 or ten Maxton regulars that have Bonneville 200 MPH Club hats, and then took an EWAG - that maybe a quarter, maybe a third of Maxton's regulars are also Bonneville regulars.

There's absolutely no question that the ECTA is meant to be a "stepping stone" to Bonneville. The ECTA rule book has morphed quite a bit in the recent past -- and now is pretty much the same as the SCTA rulebook. This is on purpose -- so that Bonneville racers can go to Maxton and expect to be able to race without having to make a bunch of changes on their vehicles. I've had the pleasure of inspecting bikes at both venues -- and (at least in the past) the ECTA inspection requirements were MORE rigorous than that at Bonneville, partly owing to the big difference in the two venues. Not that one is better than the other -- but rather that some things aren't as important in Bonneville as they are at Maxton, and also vice-versa.

And we do have a required rookie orientation at Maxton, just like that at Bonneville. No orientation, no runs.

But don't let us have you thinking we're a bunch of newbies, through and through. Wander down the pit area at SpeedWeek and find the ECTA's area. No, we don't have a separate location set aside for us, but it's not uncommon for the ECTA racers to congregate in one area, just like many of the SCTA club members pit near one another. Come see us!

You're right about jumping classes -- we've all talked about that, and about why it is allowed and why it used to be allowed in a different manner. No arguments there.
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sheribuchta on July 10, 2008, 10:17:29 PM: if i had known that i could have saved a lot of typing and just said --we gear grinders camp on the south side of the pits (track side) about 600 feet from tech --you all have a safe ride out to bonneville stop and see us (look for a white mailbox) we will camp at the bend in the road the first couple of nights see you all there willie
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: DahMurf on July 10, 2008, 10:50:15 PM: Thanks Willie, I appreciate your posts! Some of us need to hear multiple times how we need to do be doing things!!! This is all new for Todd & I so we're listening as much as we can! We'll look for the mailbox! 8-)

Deb
Title: Re: Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton
Post by: sheribuchta on July 10, 2008, 11:14:27 PM: we are going to camp out we have 7 bunks in the trailer and ac ---- we will fit you guys in --- see you there----------------------------------------- willie