Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: Egz on May 01, 2008, 07:11:55 PM
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In the SCTA rule book, it states no open face helmets. Is a hybrid helmet okay since it doesn't have a visor?
(http://www.ogracing.com/images/products/1287-G-FORCE-PRO-FORCE-HYBRID-SA2005-HELMET-middle.jpg)
Thanks
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You need one that closes. Otherwise the starter won't have anything much to do when he sends you off.
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I would hate to have one on where there is a fire in the car.
I say bad idea.
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One time I thought I would speed things up a little by closing my visor ahead of time. The starter motioned for me to close it [ it was already close ] and would not start me until I made the motion like I was closing it. I did'nt try that again.
Don
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Hmm, so if I go with that one, I'd have to fake closing the lens?
Yea.... its just really, really clean.
Thanks for the info. I need to get a new one this weekend, and like to think forward to other venues.
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You could be in it for 15 minutes ( suited up belted in 3 cars back, 5 minutes per run). Really hot anyway, wearing head sock, and I have problems with visor steaming until the car gets moving, you might want a visor.
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EGZ: Here's another way to see if it'd be allowed: Does it say "SA2000" (or later) or "M2000" (or later) Snell rating on the inside liner? If not -- nope, it won't be allowed. If so -- maybe, up to the inspectors and the starter and meet officials if you press the issue when told no. But without the Snell certification it won't pass.
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Its definately will be SA2005. Part of the reason is my M-rated that I currently own need to be upgraded for new club rules, and just trying to think of all the rules I will need to meet in the future for my helmet purchase. I don't want to buy a new helmet, and then find out that it won't be accepted somewhere. The rule in the book was just a little vague.
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This is a little off the subject, but it is about helmets. When I go to Speed Week, I always leave my helmet in the race car. Well, in 04, I went to the World Finals and on the back-up run which as you know is early in the morning, I had left the helmet in the car as I had always done, the dang thing was cold and fogged over big time, took over a mile to clear up. Now I keep it in the camper overnight when we go in the fall. This is just one of the little things that you have to learn the hard way.
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GH,
Good tip,thanks.
Don
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Rating wise the "SA" is OK for cars but not bikes. An "M" rated helmet is OK for cars and bikes. If you're buying online make sure the helmet is 2005 rated. They get rid of a lot of older certified helmets that way. :-D
Larry
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Larry, I'll reinforce that -- when you buy/order your helmet, specify on the order that if it isn't 2005 you may return it at their cost! I ordered a helmet a year or two ago and had checked to see that they had the '05 rated ones -- and yes, they did, but they sent me an '00 one anyway.
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Ah, no worries there. There is a nice store along my trip to the track, so I'll be getting it in person, so I will know that it fits correctly and will be a 2005. Definately will not buy a 2000. I was hoping I could wait it out a little longer for the 2010s; oh well.
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From the Snell Memorial Foundation:
Where's the Snell label located?
There are two forms of the Snell serialized label. The most common is the adhesive label, but there is also a cloth type for the M, SA and RS standards. The adhesive label, or decal is usually affixed somewhere on the inside of the helmet. If it is not readily visible, check underneath the flaps of the comfort padding. The cloth type labels a generally sewn onto the chin strap and folded over. If a thorough search fails to turn up a decal then regardless of any claims or advertisements your helmet is not part of the Snell certification program and does not have the confidence of the Foundation.
What are the differences between the SA, M and K standards?
The SA standard was designed for competitive auto racing while M standard was for motorcycling and other motorsports. The K standard was released to accommodate helmets used in karting. There are three major differences between them:
1. The SA standard requires flammability test while the M and K standards do not.
2. The SA and K standards allow for a narrower visual field than M standard (Some SA and K certified helmets may not be street legal).
3. The SA and K standards include a rollbar multi impact test while M standard does not.
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From the Snell Memorial Foundation:
Where's the Snell label located?
There are two forms of the Snell serialized label. The most common is the adhesive label, but there is also a cloth type for the M, SA and RS standards. The adhesive label, or decal is usually affixed somewhere on the inside of the helmet. If it is not readily visible, check underneath the flaps of the comfort padding. The cloth type labels a generally sewn onto the chin strap and folded over. If a thorough search fails to turn up a decal then regardless of any claims or advertisements your helmet is not part of the Snell certification program and does not have the confidence of the Foundation.
What are the differences between the SA, M and K standards?
The SA standard was designed for competitive auto racing while M standard was for motorcycling and other motorsports. The K standard was released to accommodate helmets used in karting. There are three major differences between them:
1. The SA standard requires flammability test while the M and K standards do not.
2. The SA and K standards allow for a narrower visual field than M standard (Some SA and K certified helmets may not be street legal).
3. The SA and K standards include a rollbar multi impact test while M standard does not.
Strange that the M is ok for cars and bikes, but the SA only cars. It would seem almost the other way around as it looks like the SA has to meet more requirements. I guess I'm missing something here,
Sum
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Strange that the M is ok for cars and bikes, but the SA only cars. It would seem almost the other way around as it looks like the SA has to meet more requirements. I guess I'm missing something here,
Sum
You're not missing anything Sum, at least not with ECTA. We've allowed car helmets on bikes, but we've(at least in the distant past ---> Beckett era) never considered the bike helmets safe for cars due to their fire rating deficiency.
The car helemts have a visual deficiency compared to the bike helmets, but not enough in our venue ("hey, look straight ahead dummy") that we saw it as a safety issue.
Deb could point it out better as I think she's one of the one's that initiatted the discussion and research, but a search in the archives here and in the ECTA group will find this discussed in depth in the past.
I find it odd that SCTA would allow the bike helmets in a car though (if that's true)?
Todd
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Strange that the M is ok for cars and bikes, but the SA only cars. It would seem almost the other way around as it looks like the SA has to meet more requirements. I guess I'm missing something here,
Sum
You're not missing anything Sum, at least not with ECTA. We've allowed car helmets on bikes, but we've(at least in the distant past ---> Beckett era) never considered the bike helmets safe for cars due to their fire rating deficiency.
The car helmets have a visual deficiency compared to the bike helmets, but not enough in our venue ("hey, look straight ahead dummy") that we saw it as a safety issue.
Deb could point it out better as I think she's one of the one's that initiated the discussion and research, but a search in the archives here and in the ECTA group will find this discussed in depth in the past.
I find it odd that SCTA would allow the bike helmets in a car though (if that's true)?
Todd
Well I got the '08 rule book out, should have done that before. Looks like maybe from the way it is written you can wear either SA or M in either a car or on at bike.....
3.A.2 Driver's Helmet:
All drivers/riders shall wear a full-face helmet with face shield. A Snell Foundation tag reading SA2000 or M 2000 or later is required. No open face Helmets will be allowed. Helmets will be visually inspected at least once each year. Helmets shall be undamaged and in serviceable condition. Eye glasses worn under the helmet shall be shatterproof.
(the 2007 rule book reads the same way)
3.A.3 Driver' Helmet Support:
..................
So maybe you can use either in a car or on a bike. I can see the vision thing requirement for street riding, but like you said not a big deal for us.
c ya,
Sum
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Sum, do you remember the old original Simpson Bandit's they are SA certifiied but for street or street bike use the field of vision is reduced considerably (this helmet is a good example of M vs SA cert's) I however like the helmet. But currently use a Bell BR1 (Bell Racer Series SA2005,,, Std. Bell White with Red Stickers)
But if I find a good deal I am going to get a Flat Black Simpson Bandit to match my new Vicky LSR.
Charles
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That's correct Sum,
On the car side there was never a designator other then stating "Snell rated" early on, then later(somewhere around 2003 I believe?), the "M" (or) "SA" designators were added to the rulebook in the car section (and became under question by a few).
With the bike side on the other hand, there was no "M"(only) designator until 2007(still under question? yes).
At that time(around 2003 or 2004 actually I think?), the questioning pushed some of us to look deeper into reasons that we wouldn't (or couldn't, other then the written rule) allow them to be swapped in vehicle type. Seeing as we were bike guys(and a girl :roll:) studying it.. we didn't see where it effected our MC rules and the car guys are running the place sooo on to the next gig. Then, again in 2006 we looked at it deeper when it was being discussed about the "M only" designator for the bikes (allowing SA helemt's on bikes wasn't anything that made it in the rulebook as you can see, but it's not something I'm going to shoot someone down for in tech either). We do let the car guys that talk about hearing a bike helmet for reduced weight, visibility, etc... that the fire rating is not there and it's not a good idea from what we studyied in the past.
At anyrate, you and Larry are both correct in the reading of the current rules (but like some other unmentioned rules), that doens't make them right... just improperly (imo) transposed over the years.
Todd
EDIT - PS: the above references are ECTA related (sorry, it's all I know fairly well right now), and I haven't had time (YET) or have all the SCTA rulebooks in my posession currently to see the progression of the original rulers.