Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA Rules Questions => Topic started by: narider on January 24, 2008, 11:21:13 AM
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Keep an eye out here in the very near future for the online publication of the 2008 ECTA Motorcycle rules, in their entirety. (http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/Misc/Smileys/2thumbs.gif)
Todd
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Timely updates, common sense, wide participation, and consistency will be the best measure of the worth and ECTA does pretty well, others not so good. :wink:
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Everything's not always as it seems, but hopefully 2(and that might be pushing it) out of 4 will be a decent start again this season. :|
Todd
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Why only the motorcycle rules? That seems separtist(?) to me. I thought we were in this together. Another example of them vrs. us.
DW
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I understand your feelings Dan, but that's not my gig. I think it's likely the car rules will be put out publicly as well... I can only speak for the 2 wheeled end of things. The MC rules have changed substantially enough this year to warrant the right of the membership and prospective membership to have early and readily available access to them.
Do people still race cars? :oops:
Todd
PS: JW will probably be along shortly about the proper conglomeration of letters you used to spell separatist(personally, I think it was a very valient effort!).
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Dan's smarter than he looks -- he covered his ass by using the question mark in parenthses (?).
Stan
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The car racers should be thankful a bike racer is not doing their rules. And on the flip side that a bike racer & not a car person is giving input to the bike rules. Some separatism is a good thing!
:-D
Deb
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Look me in the eye and say that again. :?
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it works so well for the scta, having 2 separate entities, bikes and cars, what is the problem with the ECTA doing it... for those who doubt, why have a car champion and a bike champion at EM... :roll:
Todd, y'all coming to the salt this year? 8-)
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Todd better make it. Deb can give him a little kick in the behind. Just tell the sheriffs dept they can wait a week to bring their bikes in. A few less on the road for a week might make a few people happy down in your neck of the woods.
Joel
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it works so well for the scta, having 2 separate entities, bikes and cars, what is the problem with the ECTA doing it... for those who doubt, why have a car champion and a bike champion at EM... :roll:
Todd, y'all coming to the salt this year? 8-)
What happens if a bike becomes a car ?
Why 2 life memberships for a car points leader at EM and only 1 for a bike ?
Why did the first bike champ set his own minimums ?
Why is their a difference at all ? :?
REMARKABLE
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Some separatism is a good thing!
This is one of those times more could be better!
Look me in the eye and say that again. :?
Which eye, and which that?
Todd, y'all coming to the salt this year? 8-)
A prior commitment by our CFO(Crashing Female Officer) might not allow that this season, it remains to be seen and if so it will be a spectator scene for us I'm sure.
A few less on the road for a week might make a few people happy down in your neck of the woods.
I'm guessing the out of service motor officers and my accountant may not be the few you speak of?
Why is their a difference at all ? :?
A couple of those items at EM I wasn't aware of, WOW! The (car to bike) difference at ECTA was in 2002 when... well that doesn't really matter, but it remains that the top 5(which it's finally down to now) of both the car and bike points holders are still running on open records that show the teams ability to choose and not the bikes ability to perform(not an easy game I KNOW, but still more of a game then a feat). Meaning the final standings have nothing to do with what(I believe) the premise of the points being there in the first place are, that is to show the improvement of those vehicles over the course of the year or over the history of the class<---(singular) that a vehicle runs in. There were so many more open records to run on at the begining of the decade that the top 30 were unrelated to showing(even if there was) actual performance increases over time. And truthfully it was more of a challenge to get points over your opponent then it was to get a record since there were so many that hadn't been ran on. The points were changed to be based on a record that already existed rather then an open record(hence the shortlived sandbagging era), and the knoweldge that a car would be able to sandbag lower then a bike(still never proven), which helped lock in the decision of two points championships per year.
On the other hand(speaking of differences and more related to this thread), the organizational differences coast to coast(that were so appropriatte imo and took many years of development), will no longer be so distinctive this year, and they are becoming ever closer to each other as the powers that are move forward.
REMARKABLE
Agreed!
Todd
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"The points were changed to be based on a record that already existed rather then an open record"
This has been floated several times at El Mirage, never seems to pass muster.
DW
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Spectator Smectator, you 2 show up at the salt and we will probably put you to both to work when we aren't waiting in line, which is most of the time... Oh, that means don't forget to pack your leathers, got any that meet the Bull rule? You can get your rookie run out of the way.... :-D
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Todd:
It's "valiant", not valient.
With love,
Jon
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Todd:
It's "valiant", not valient.
With love,
Jon
And Smectator passed the Jon test... :? There is probably a reason to have a Jon running the John program.... :-D
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The car racers should be thankful a bike racer is not doing their rules. And on the flip side that a bike racer & not a car person is giving input to the bike rules. Some separatism is a good thing!
:-D
Deb
NOTE TO DEB:
Can you help Todd with this, then we can see eye to eye ? :-D
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The car racers should be thankful a bike racer is not doing their rules. And on the flip side that a bike racer & not a car person is giving input to the bike rules. Some separatism is a good thing!
:-D
Deb
NOTE TO DEB:
Can you help Todd with this, then we can see eye to eye ? :-D
Jack, Jack Jack.... he's beyond help, :roll: but that won't stop him from looking you in the eye! :-o
(in some cases that may be the buckeye! :-D )
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Spectator Smectator, you 2 show up at the salt and we will probably put you to both to work when we aren't waiting in line, which is most of the time... Oh, that means don't forget to pack your leathers, got any that meet the Bull rule? You can get your rookie run out of the way.... :-D
Stainless, we'd be honored to help in everyway possible(still the big thing of talking the cone hunter into it since I don't think they're ever in season out there), and I'll be sure we bring our leathers along with some preprepped Bull Rule silicone panels(which Deb will be wearing on the outside of her suit btw :wink:).
Todd
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I would of expected no less Slim... I always try to leave one out in the open for easy Pickens.
Todd
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NOTE TO DEB:
Can you help Todd with this, then we can see eye to eye ? :-D
With HER eyes!?!? Are you kdding me? Ok, she's made me see the light.. it must have been the sunglasses 8-)
Deb, you know I always look in the eye of the end someone is speaking from. I can't imagine Jack ever speaking from his "Ohio Eye", but it is usually worth asking just in case. :-)
Todd
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Spectator Smectator, you 2 show up at the salt and we will probably put you to both to work when we aren't waiting in line, which is most of the time... Oh, that means don't forget to pack your leathers, got any that meet the Bull rule? You can get your rookie run out of the way.... :-D
Stainless, we'd be honored to help in everyway possible(still the big thing of talking the cone hunter into it since I don't think they're ever in season out there), and I'll be sure we bring our leathers along with some preprepped Bull Rule silicone panels(which Deb will be wearing on the outside of her suit btw :wink:).
Todd
Well if y'all want to take up a collection to get us out there this year then maybe we'd come! :-D Right now I'm not done paying for last years racing *ahem* so we're going low budget on things this year! :lol: (heck I haven't even figure out how to pay for this years ECTA racing yet! Might have to start selling Todd's junk! I have a need for speed & he has too much junk anyway! 8-) )
We're going to try to see if we can get a budget together for next year. We'd also have to cow proof our leathers as we're currently non-complient! :|
Deb
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Might have to start selling Todd's junk! I have a need for speed & he has too much junk anyway! 8-) )
Whoa now, hold the boat there darlin... granted my 40year smokemobile might take month or more to do so, but you know I'll ride my junk out there back with you packed on the fender for a chance to work and ride with Stainless, and see Jack, Freud and Glen!
We're going to try to see if we can get a budget together for next year.
Now we're talking, seeing the bill from the last time we tried to make the trip should be getting close to paid off. So.... handleit, handleit! 8-)
Todd
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Now we're talking, seeing the bill from the last time we tried to make the trip should be getting close to paid off. So.... handleit, handleit! 8-)
Todd
Yeah I guess I'll have to! I can see how far the thought of taking up a collection for us went! (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/rotfl.gif)
I guess they just don't know how truly pathetic we really are! :-D
(or maybe they're all hoping we'll stay home! :-o )
Deb
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Hell of a deal, they are married, live together, work together, race together and have to talk to each other by E-Mail. :-D
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You guys can save a lot of $$$$ not having to buy new leathers..........and race the BUB.............
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... and have to talk to each other by E-Mail. :-D
We get along better that way! :-D
Deb
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Hell of a deal, they are married, live together, work together, race together and have to talk to each other by E-Mail. :-D
This is actually one of the safer ways for us to communicate with each other Glen. At least without a full face helmet on(hell, i even wear my full face at my computer when I'm reading her comments or commenting to her.... one of the many great reasons for having the right gear on at the right time!
Deb welcoming me into the shop
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/Misc/100_3141.jpg)
Me showing her what she looks like when coming at me with an attitude
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/Misc/100_3142.jpg)
Her telling me not to cross the line
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/Misc/BigSnake2.jpg)
Her mentioning her being right
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/Misc/100_0257c.jpg)
Her verifying she's right
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o244/narider/Misc/100_0270c.jpg)
Todd
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I love the discussion. Not only do I learn about cars, bikes, speed, things about engineering and physics but about life and love. Thanks all!
DahMurf, nice beauty mask. Hope your pet is OK after trying to escape. The sheriff connection reminded me of times long ago.
I dated a girl who's dad was the police chief. Nice in that I was not hassled. But I was always looked for too!
All the best, Geo
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Todd...any word on the updated rules..???? thanks Jody
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They're out for ECTA website inclusion. I think Mark said he was going to try and have them up this weekend. Having them in just one place and instead linking to them(rather then posting them here and all over the web), will(may :?) create less misquoted copies.
Should be shortly Jody, and any specific questions you have in the meantime please feel free to fire away(preferably in a subject specific post though).
One thing we won't be doing is hindering anyone from running that doesn't qualify to a new rule but still adhere's to last years related rule safety wise. Class placement is what it is, but we've tried to alleviatte our existing membership from having to be forced into a new class as much as possible(yours truly withstanding unfotunately :roll:), while at the same time trying to allow the SCTA membership to run in their class should they join us.
Todd
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thanks Todd...I have nothing specific to ask, I was just wondering when they would be out...there was mention of changes ? just wanted to see what they were...we as everyone else is running short on time and would like the bikes ready for april..I understand that time will be alocated for the rule changes but I would like our bikes ready for the first meet...thanks again..I will keep checking the sites for any word on the posting...take care Jody...hope you and Deb are doing well and we will see you in april....
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Mark wrote me friday and said they would be posted by Saturday, so I'm sure they won't be long now,(he has to create a space and page, etc for it and all that stuff that I sure wouldn't want part of).
Yes there is a lot of changes in compared to years past. The basis of the book is(once again) from the SCTA current rulebook, with changes made to help provide our existing membership conformity with it's recent past along with the safety issues our venue mandates.
We'll be there with or without bike(this is the meet the cars try to remind us they're still capable of LSR too :wink: )
Todd
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2008 ECTA Motorcycle Rules
http://twinjugsracing.com/ecta08mcrules.htm
Todd
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If I read that correctly , nitrous bottle valves don't need crash protection anymore ?
Roy
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That's correct,
Todd
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I received my new rule book, and one thing is a bit confusing - at the intro of the MC rules, I think it says that running in a larger displacement class is 'still legal' - but in the displacement section, it states otherwise.
Are the new class rules only intended to prevent running up in class designation (open bike in PS, PS bike in S), or also engine size?
Thanks,
Dean
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I don't have my rulebook yet but I do know that you are still allowed to "freely" run up in engine class. If you want to change PS or Frame class then something needs to be changed to qualify for the class. Well, I guess you "could" run in the PS class without any fairings, but that would make no sense! :-D
Deb
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That's what I thought Deb, thanks. Wonder why the displacement rules sound so specific? -Dean
7.B.13 Engine size:
Displacement must be greater than the maximum allowable for the next lower class. To permit minor reconditioning of worn cylinder blocks in classes other than Production, it is permitted to increase cylinder bore diameter .020 in. (.508 mm) beyond that which provides maximum displacement for the class. In all cases, the resulting displacement must be exceeded to qualify for the next higher class. The .020 in. (.508 mm) will be discounted for record certification and will be noted on the certification card and in the logbook.
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Hi Dean,
While in effect, the "engine class jumping" (that's still currently granted) over-rides any specific info that is presently worded and in effect to determine the "base class" of a vehicle. And to have it there and up-to-date once(when) this part of the class jumping is no longer allowed.
It was a very short time ago that the membership's voice was heard, and "frame class jumping" was disallowed. So if you like or dislike the class jumping going on... as a current member, now is the time to write in about it. If you feel strongly about anything stated in the rulebook opr practices that aren' tin the rulebook, be heard about it somehwere... because those with views opposing yours are going to be!
I'll help bring the things on these boards, my phone and my e-mail to the people that matter thoroughout (and at the end of) the season, but your written word being held in hand by the powers that be are very critical to our present position as well as our future direction!
Todd
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I have no problem with class jumping, or frame jumping for that matter. Just wanted to understand the rules, in case I want to do it myself at some point. Thanks for the clarification Todd. See you in April, Dean
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Hey Dean,
Sorry I lost sight of this thread. As a little more background, the ECTA just adopted most of the SCTA motorcycle rules and that for the most part is why you see the specific wording on class. As Todd said, the members have voted to keep allowing the running up in CC class & that is apparently why you see the little blurb in the beginning.
Deb
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2008 ECTA Rulebook
If yours is not correct (a small amount went out before being corrected), please add the following corrections to the motorcycle section of your rulebook as follows.
Correction 1
7.C.2 Leathers:(Page 74): In sentence 3, strike through the word metal to read as follows.
7.C.2 Leathers:
Leathers certified by a recognized manufacturer to be suitable for the application are required. One-piece suits or two-piece suits zippered together are allowed. Required over 175 MPH: One-piece leathers or two-piece leathers with full (270 degree) metal zipper. Also required over 175 MPH: Special protective armor, as produced by a recognized manufacturer, with minimum coverage at elbows, knees, shoulders, hips and back. Undergarments having the required armor coverage are acceptable, when the undergarment is worn with the required leather suit.
Correction 2
7.J.14 Engine Diplacement Classes:(Page 83): In sentence 2, add 50 and 3000 cc classes, and change the 3000+ reference to 3001+ to read as follows.
7.J.14 Engine Displacement Classes:
Engine Classes are shown in cubic centimeters. 50, 100, 125, 175, 250, 350, 400 (ECTA Only) , 500, 650, 750, 1000, 1350, 1650, 2000, 3000 and 3001+ where permitted.
Please pass this info on to any ECTA racers you are affiliatted with, especially concerning the metal zipper not being needed in case there are those purchsing new suits and trying to meet htis requirement.
Thanks,
Todd
Edit: If you do not have your rulebook yet (or don't have it handy) and would like to reference the above, you can do so at this address.
http://twinjugsracing.com/ecta08mcrules.htm