I know some might not agree with this idea, but I would like to throw out the idea that SCTA consider adopting a "vintage NASCAR" class just like the vintage oval track class.
I think one of the charms and perhaps duties of land speed racing is to preserve the fundamental roots of our racing heritage. As the car of tomorrow takes over, the old NASCAR chassis will quickly pass into a historical class that I think deserves to be preserved. They will run for a while on the smaller tracks but they also have some historical value as cars that developed one of the most successful racing organizations in the world, with huge fan support. They broke key historical records like the first 200+ mph lap on a closed course.
If such a class was formed you could resolve the tire width issue by including rules for tire width, requiring a narrower more salt suitable tire over some specific speed. That would put all these cars on a level playing field and they can continue to race. Given the public popularity for NASCAR and the potential for easier access to sponsor money it might be a natural for folks to run a reasonably affordable chassis and with reasonable opportunities for sponsorship money.
Just food for thought!
Larry
Ok I'm not afraid to admit that I'm a die hard NASCAR fan that usually only misses one or two races a year, but I can't see the need for this. NASCAR had so many body styles over the years and has gone from actual modified stock cars to the cars of the 80's on up that hardly resembled a stock car at all in regards to the chassis and later the body. Also look at the wide range of engine sizes that were used over the years. I think by the time you put in some type of rule structure that Dan and others could deal with in impound you would have a spec car like what NASCAR has today.
I think their needs are meet by being able to come and run "time only" if they are interested. Personally I think NASCAR's drive to be the most popular motor series has really hurt them with their base and will hurt them in the long run when a number of their new fans move on. You can see that in the ratings already. I love Land Speed Racing and wonder just how popular we want it to be. At Bonneville we run on a surface that can only handle "X" number of runs a year, take this year for instance, so how big do we really want our sport to grow. I'll bet at the moment there are at least 100-150 new cars/bikes being built to run on the salt.
I think the history of our sport has been to make/modify cars to run on the salt/dirt and not to make rules that adapt the salt/dirt to cars that were meant to run under different conditions such as Indy cars, F1, Modifieds, Wing Cars, drag cars, etc.. NASCAR cars are designed to go around in circles, so I think if there is a need to run older cars they will find a venue and don't they now have some road races setup for them??
Don't forget the race tomorrow, I like those short tracks,
Sum
Sumner,
My feelings too.
We have a petition from interested parties of 9-12. Some restrictions in my mind are:
cars from 1997 -2007, except 2007 COT
engine class C only
"as raced" configuration
Personally, I do not see a need for this class. There are plenty of venues to run that cater to this style of race car. I don't see a challege here.
The SCTA tries to listen to the wishes of the competitors and this class will be considered. Any other comments?
Lets start another thread, include the last two posts. The input will assist us in the validity of yet another class.
Thanks to all for your interest in LSR,
DW
... the appearance and design of cars in this catagory must be practical for, and as were used in, OVAL TRACK and SPEEDWAY competition.
If F-1 is the logical next choice, can Indy Cars be far behind ?
I repeat:
"cars from 1997 -2007, except 2007 COT
engine class C only
"as raced" configuration"
Entries will have to provide five templates for their car.
Center line, front/rear fender cross & front/rear windows. If the cars are available so are the templates. See photo in latest issue of Hot Rod.
DW
but this is supposed to be amateur.
The NASCAR chassis are a well engineered chassis that is available at reasonable prices where folks can get a 200 mph capable car that they know is safe at a sensible price.
The current rules already make it too expensive to run many of the current production cars in any of the modified classes, because of the drive train changes required you basically need to redesign the car.
What is SCTA going to do when none of the current production cars can run in Modified classes without prohibitive modifications in their design?
Larry
.........................So, Let's See (?????)
Streamliners that cost "Mega-Bucks" were built by back yard amateurs (?????), so that qualifies them to be called "The Backbone Of Our Sport"?????.......
................. As configured might also be the way to go, that way you can watch us spin on the wide tires. Actually, tire technology has transformed many "Also Ran" race cars into high speed race cars, so using the LSR Tires would provide us with the stability we need, and that way we hopefully don't spin in front of the crowd.
Just our thoughts, so have at it.
R/J/MAXX2
MAXX2 RACING ('69 El Camino)
Larry, I think that is the definition of modified... if you can run it like it is, then it is production...
I guess if none of current production cars can run in Modified classes without prohibitive modifications in their design everyone will run classics...
I never knew NASCAR ran AWD cars.
If you removed the driveshaft to the rear axle you would no longer have an AWD car would you.
this NASCAR rule discussion is just another example of the hidden bias against change and flexibility that is supposed to be the trademark character of the land speed racing sport.
Larry
Hayabusas are road race motorcycles. You know, turn left and right and there are LOTS of places to race them.
Are you guys saying we should not let them run? Cuz thats what I'm hearing...
So if they are running old NASCARs why not run in Oval Track, just open a part of that class that now has VOT and MVOT. Maybe NASCAROT...
Personally I don't plan to run one, but I also think if folks want to race one, then go for it.
I'll bet USFRA would host a NASCAR race at WOS if someone approached them with an idea...
Hey if a dozen guys want to race round-de-round cars in a straight line, one at a time, I'm not the guy to stop em... I'll leave that to the trained professionals....
Need to reset the vote so that a member is allowed one vote, and one vote only!
Richard and Judy/MAXX2
MAXX2RACING
RUSS WICKS SETS NEW WORLD STOCK CAR SPEED RECORD IN NASCAR-SPEC FORD AT BONNEVILLE SALT FLATS
Wicks’ stock car record was certified by Mike Cook, Chairman of Bonneville Nationals, Inc., and was run in accordance with FIA timing and scoring standards for speed records.
A quick view of the poll on this topic seems to indicate that 75% of the active racers do not want to see a NASCAR class. I can stop working on that now.
DW
Standing tall with that group must be suitably rewarding. :roll:
I just got the exclusive Spring Rubber concession for SpeedWeek next Year!Well sorta, the check is in the mail to me now as I am told.
“””””WOW!!!!!”””””
We had no idea that there was this type of animosity towards the Nascar Cars in Land Speed Racing.
MAXX2RACING
Just read 2007 rules in Modified category 5.d pg.58-63. I don't see anything about no 4wheel or all wheel drive.
The hatred towards the cars themselves is obvious.
OH BOY !
If this NASCAR deal fails, what am I going to do with all these Legend Cars that Fern sold me and I was going to rent out ? :oops:
Just Great!!!
Keep These Comments Coming, As We Need Something To Remind Us Of How Funny You Aren't!!!!!
MAXX2RACING
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Since this thead has taken a turn toward elcamino's and rancheo's, I have a question for Dan. In the rule book under classic and gas coupe it states that the vehicle must have been originaly pruduced with seating for 4 adults. Are the elcomino's and ranchero's put in these classes because they are more like cars than pickup's or can they run MP or PP?
We'll chime in before Dan. As noted by "Former" President Bill Clinton, an El Camino with Astro Turf in the bed is perfect for two, therefore, 2 seats in the cab, 2 seats in the bed. Total====
Seating For Four.
Because you have it doesn't mean
we have to make a class for it.
DW
My long-time mechanic Jon Nalon, who has been
crew chief for more than 30 SCTA Bonneville records,
had a fine suggestion in the early 1990's:
Just have a record for each INDIVIDUAL.
Only YOU could set the record in your class,
and only YOU could break the record.
No worries about classes , rules, displacements or fuels.
Just YOU.
With only one class per person, we might
actually wind up with FEWER records "in the book."
El Caminos and the ilk are based on car chassis not a body specific chassis. There is nil interest in running an El Camino against a Camero if you have the desire to compete heads up.I note that the Modified Mid/Mini Pickup Truck class description in the current rulebook is illustrated with a "truck" based on the VW Rabbit/Golf. I find no language saying that Modified Pickup Truck would not similarly allow El Caminos and Rancheros. Has the question ever been raised?
My long-time mechanic Jon Nalon, who has been
crew chief for more than 30 SCTA Bonneville records,
had a fine suggestion in the early 1990's:
Just have a record for each INDIVIDUAL.
Only YOU could set the record in your class,
and only YOU could break the record.
No worries about classes , rules, displacements or fuels.
Just YOU.
With only one class per person, we might
actually wind up with FEWER records "in the book."
And it took you about 17 years to pass that on (http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/cry2.gif) . Just think of all the pain that would have been avoided if you would have remembered it sooner (http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/bigO.gif) ,
Sum
El Caminos and the ilk are based on car chassis not a body specific chassis. There is nil interest in running an El Camino against a Camero if you have the desire to compete heads up.I note that the Modified Mid/Mini Pickup Truck class description in the current rulebook is illustrated with a "truck" based on the VW Rabbit/Golf. I find no language saying that Modified Pickup Truck would not similarly allow El Caminos and Rancheros. Has the question ever been raised?
So I guess that at the bottom of page 58 rule 5.D Modified Category where it says "El Caminos & Rancheros meeting the requirementswithin this catagory WILL compete in the appropriate class" doesn't explain it enough?You guess correctly. Both Gas Coupe and Modified Pickup Truck are in the Modified Category, so to say El Caminos compete in the "appropriate class", without specifying what said appropriate class is, gives us no guidance whatsoever. If it's self-evident that they are cars and not trucks, what about the Rabbit?
I guess common since don't count. The rule 5.D.5 says "Samples of allowed trucks include but are not limited to; Chevrolet C series, Ford F series and others".Don't be sorry; actually I agree that it would be unfair to class them as trucks.
I'm sorry but El Caminos are not considered trucks by the SCTA.
As for the Rabbit.... shoot it! :-DThe rule 5.D.6 says "Samples of allowed trucks include but are not limited to; Chevrolet S-10, Ford Ranger, and Nissan and Toyotas". I guess consistency don't count.
I think the Rabbit is in the same league as the others mini trucks listed even though it was a car too, no?Maybe more or less, but that's beside the point. A 1949 Studebaker is in the same league as a 1948 Studebaker, but it can't compete in Vintage Gas Coupe. If the Rabbit is a legal MMP, then so is this . . .
Richard,
No where in the book does it state how much you can spend on your racer.
DW