Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: Pak Ramstock on July 09, 2007, 10:29:11 PM
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I'm working on my entry forms for the World of Speed and am curious what class my bike should be in. I ran this past June at Maxton in the M/F 750-4 class but don't know whether the classes transfer directly between the ECTA and the USFRA. This will be my first trip to Bonneville so I don't have a rule book to go by. Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks in advance!
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How about you upload a picture of your bike and it would help better classify it. Since ECTA has alot of different classes as SCTA/USFRA classes.
Jon
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Sure, here are links to two photos I took at Maxton.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o246/andrewfunke/Maxton%206-24-2007/cb750-3.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o246/andrewfunke/Maxton%206-24-2007/cb750-4.jpg
If you need specifics on the mods I've made to the bike, just let me know and I'll post them.
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NICE BIKE!!! I LIKE IT!!!
Exhaust is different so that puts you in modified. Doesn't look like any streamlining but what exactly did you do with the tail and side panels? Not sure if that puts you in a partial streamliner class or not. Do you have the Quasimodo hump on your leathers?
Nice bike nice bike.
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By the looks of the picture, it would be in the M-F or M-G glass. Not production because of the pipes, Modified class because doesn't look like any streamlining forward of the rider, streamlining behind you doesn't matter for modified. So I would say M-F or M-G 1350cc. And the SCTA/USFRA record book doesn't distinguish from 2 or 4 stroke, I think that is just a ECTA thing...
Hope to see it soon. And as a side note you can take off the blinkers and be legal in M class. Don't want those sticking out in the air.
Jon
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Jon, I'd lean towards saying he'll be in M/G or F 750, not 1350. I didn't measure the radius of the headlight lens, but I'll hazard a guess that it'll be close enough to let the bike run in naked class, not PS.
My first bike -- way back when -- was a 750 Honda, so I enjoyed seeing the bike at Maxton and running. I look forward to seeing it on the Salt, too.
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Yup, put the stock exhaust and seat back on if you have it and run production. Otherwise it looks M to me. I'd say you'll need to make yourself a new chain guard as well.They must be 3/32 thick if steel or 1/8 thick if aluminum and I doubt your stock one in that thick.
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you would also have to add the tailight and stock airbox to run production. looks like m/g or m/f
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Thanks for the advice so far. I'll likely be running pump gas, so from what I understand that'll put me in the "F" class. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that means my class with the USFRA will stay the same as with the ECTA: M/F 750-4
The stock chain guard passed tech inspection at Maxton, but I can look into having a sturdier one built for Bonneville, if necessary. I'll measure it soon to see if it's the correct thickness. Also, the headlight is the standard-size 7" lamp.
I appreciate all the compliments on my bike; I'm glad you all dig it as much as I do! Slim, it was good to meet you at Maxton. The 750 will definitely be at Bonneville, and I've been working hard on it since I've been home. If all goes as planned, I should be able to best the 106mph I put down last month. Hope to see some or all of you in September.
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I cant say this strong enough, if you are going to Bonneville they are NOT the same rules. ECTA is more flexible on its rules... Like I said there is NO 750-4 class at Bonneville. Bonneville does not distinguish between 2 and 4 stroke. And the statement but it passed ECTA tech will not fly with any colors at SCTA/USFRA events. So it would be either M-F 750cc or M-G 750cc. And im sure you will need a thicker chain guard, see posts above about thickness.
Jon
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I teched the bike at Maxton, and pointed out a few things that would need to be changed to pass tech at the Salt, such as the chainguard, for instance. The bike was/is close to acceptable -- and with a bit of study in the SCTA rulebook Pak should be able to get it completely okay. Pak, if you've got specific questions -- ask me, ask someone, so you get as much done as possible before you leave the safe confines of your home shop. Did any of the Maxton inspectors make notations in your logbook about things that must be done? If so, do them now!
Also -- This fella showed his understanding of the fact that rules are there to keep him and everyone else safe, and also to make sure he's playing on a level field with the rest of us. As for the difference, or lack thereof, between ECTA's allowance for both two-stroke and four-stroke motors, and the SCTA's non-difference -- all that means to this rqacer is that he's gonna run against some pretty stout records set by two-strokes. I think he'll be happy to run at Bonneville rather than disappointed that he didn't set a record.
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The SCTA Bonneville record for M-750-F is 167.076. For M-750-G it is 161.10. I am not a bike guy but from what I see in the rule book you will need to have tires that are acceptable for speeds between 151 and 200 (based on the class record and not on the speed of your bike). You'll need production ZRs or racing tires. Another acceptable option is shaved production V tires. I suggest you verify this with one of the real, live, card carrying, LSR, biker dudes like Jon Amo or Jon (slim) or Kent (1212FBGS) or JackD, or others that offer up help here. By the way, the production record (P-P 750) is 172.029.
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The P-P 750 record was not with one of those super 2 strokes was it ?
Given the age of the design, one would have a case to see it as a "Vintage", if not a "Classic" like the cars have invented.
Personnel best is the best, the competition for a record can ruin someone that otherwise would be nice folk.
I have to remember "Tugboat" from Port Sam Huston.
He was the 3rd fastest Shovel Head in 1989 and never fails to show somebody his certificate.
I am sure if they didn't buy him a cool one upfront, he did win a lot of bets.
And while is appearance might be striking, he is the best friend one could hope for. :wink:
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Slim like you said, I'm not looking to set any records with my old SOHC 4 at Bonneville. This will be my first time there and only the second time I've been land speed racing, so I'll be happy just to run, hopefully set a new personal best, and make some new friends. I didn't get any tech improvement suggestions at Maxton (at least not officially in my log book) so I'll be making safety adjustments based on what you guys tell me and what I learn from the USFRA and/or SCTA rule books. A few points of discussion:
Tires: I currently have H rated ones on my bike. If I'm going to run at Bonneville, do I need to put on V-rated or better? I ask because I'll be highly surprised if the bike gets over 125 on a good day; however, LittleLiner, from what I understand of your post, tire requirements are based on the record in the class, not how fast my bike will run. Slim and any other bike guys, is my assessment correct?
Chain Guard: Having a new, stronger one built shouldn't be a problem. I know of a shop nearby that can fabricate one for me to the required specs.
Class: M-F (or G) 750 it is. In my mind, the "-4" at the end was actually for the number of cylinders, but whether it's for stroke or cylinders it's just an extra number I don't have to bother with at Bonneville, so I'm fine with leaving it off. No worries there.
Vintage or Classic status: Is there such a class in the USFRA and, if so, will a 1976 model fit into it?
Again, thanks for all the advice to date. Keep it coming!
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Pak. Yes tires are determined by the record. So you will have to go with ZR rated or shaved V tires. I was also noticing in your pics, your spokes are very dark. My first thought was rust? I hope not but either way check them very carefully.
For the chain guard you might as well go down to the shop you talked about and have them make you one that goes all the way to the side cover. It also must be 1 1/2 times the width of the chain.
As far as vintage that class is for bikes made prior to 1956
I don't remember if it was mentioned but you'll need a steering dampner as well. Also a dead man tether.
Good luck and see ya there.
Larry
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Thanks for the info, Larry.
Not to beat a dead horse, but does the tire issue also apply to entrants trying for the 130 club? My friend and I who are riding to Bonneville are entering to run in that group only, not for any actual records. If it still applies to any bike, regardless, I'll look into getting the right tires ASAP, I just want to be 100% sure before making the investment.
I painted the spokes black to prevent rust, but they were completely rust-free when I painted them this past spring. I've got a kill switch/tether already installed. I'm currently shopping for a steering damper and will have it and the new chain guard installed by the time of the trip out west.
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Tires: I currently have H rated ones on my bike. If I'm going to run at Bonneville, do I need to put on V-rated or better? I ask because I'll be highly surprised if the bike gets over 125 on a good day; however, LittleLiner, from what I understand of your post, tire requirements are based on the record in the class, not how fast my bike will run. Slim and any other bike guys, is my assessment correct?
Vintage or Classic status: Is there such a class in the USFRA and, if so, will a 1976 model fit into it?
Tires will be a problem at SW. In the rulebook, the tires must match the speed of the current record. So a ZR is required. But the problem is a tubeless tire put on a spoked rim. Unless you can get a sealed rim and run it without a tube, the speed rating is reduced by one. But the rulebook says you may run a tubeless bias tire with a tube, not a radial. I'd email Tom Evans or Russ O'Daly and ask them about it. Tell them the class record & type of rim you have & they'll tell you what is required. You might need new rims.
Vintage ends at 1955, so you will run with all the new stuff.
Good luck,
Matt
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Don't forget about a metal battery hold down, metal valve stems and caps.
Probably know this but I read the rule book a thousand times and still didn't see this until 9pm the night before leaving..
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Well, once again the posts are not well read.
Pak mentioned 130 club. This is a World of Speed exclusive deal. SCTA rules don't apply.
DW
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I caught that too DW. Maybe we all assumed he was talking about Speed Week. I think he did mention Speed Week tho. I dunno.
Very good tho Pinto. Read the rules and read them again. Just like when you were back in school. Except, if he's running tubes I don't think he can get metal valve stems. He'll have to wire the rubber valve stems to protect them from deflection. As you said tho, read the rules and read them again.
So, Pak, go back to the start of your post and read it all again. Then tomorrow, read it again.
And, have fun, that's what it's all about. And good luck.... :-D
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Except, if he's running tubes I don't think he can get metal valve stems. He'll have to wire the rubber valve stems to protect them from deflection.
36 years ago Earl Flanders had me remove the nuts from my metal valve stems at tech. His reasoning was if the tire/tube shifted suddenly on the rim the stem would be pulled out regardless [and probably even quicker/easier] with the nut on. With the nut off I would have a chance to detect a slower creep developing when I checked the angle of the stem closely between runs. Sounded logical to me at the time and I never ran the nuts again even on the street. Made the valve stem angle part of my preride visual check and never had a problem. Anyone know of any particular mechanical incident happening since to change that logic?
Ed Purinton
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The indication the tube has rotated with the action of the tire is a pre-check that has been lost over time with the tubeless tires.
Tube tires are down graded 1 level because they retain more heat that is the major cause of the failures.
Only tubes specifically designed for radials should be ever used in them because the nature of the tire reaction is different than a bias design and the tubes must be designed and formulated to prevent rotation.
They are much like a racing only tube that is compounded with more natural rubber that makes them stick better to the casing and not slip around.
Much of the increased performance on a bike has come from the development of the radial tire that holds it shape better at speed.
:wink:
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Yes, see I told you they make tubes for radial tires
Jack, knows his STUFF......................................
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When I used to race bikes in the dirt, I would oblong the stem hole in the rim and double nut the stem up next to the valve cap. That way the stem could tilt and be pulled in quite a ways if the tire rotated and if it did then I could easily realign it and not have to dismount the tire to get the stem back in the hole. Visual checking always remains an imperative.
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"Just getting to be ancient is an acquired skill that is better learned early as opposed to depending on your THEORETICAL (there is that word again) immortality, it gives you more time to race." (me) :wink:
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Ref reply #22
Thanks Jack, I just might be able to get qualified for a modern ride yet.
Ref reply #24
Nice tip Richard, I like it, work smarter not harder.
Ref reply #26
Sorta backs up the old saying. "There's a lot of bold riders/drivers, there's a lot of old riders/drivers, but very few old bold riders/drivers".
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Jack-look who's calling whom ancient. Another thing about tube type scoot tires, after spokes seat, and you're done with the final truing, take a die grinder and smooth grind the ends of the spokes flush with the nipples. Trash the phony rubber strap and then tape with 2-3 wraps of electrician's tape.
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If you look at the 130 club inspection sheet:
http://www.saltflats.com/Forms/PREINSPECTION%20CHECKLIST.pdf (http://www.saltflats.com/Forms/PREINSPECTION%20CHECKLIST.pdf)
And the 130 club rules:
http://www.saltflats.com/I30%20Club.html (http://www.saltflats.com/I30%20Club.html)
Vehicles must have H, V, or Z rated tires which are rated for speeds in excess of 130 mph.
An "H" rated tire is all you need for the 130 club.