Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Rex Schimmer on February 26, 2007, 06:19:12 PM
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I was surfing through Sum's site yesterday and got into the Human Power Vehicle page and they make some pretty neat pieces and one of them used a small viedo camera and CRT for the driver (rider in this case) to see what was ahead of him. Now I think that I would go with something like this before using a periscope as I think that the field of vision is probably greater. I am sure that it is probably not legal but it sure would clean up the front of a streamliner or lakester. Of course now I would be dependent on some electrical device that I wired up so it probably wouldn't be a great idea!!!
The "bike" that holds the Human Powered speed record, at around 72 mph, had the rider setting backwards in it looking to the rear and he saw the front of car through a periscope. Now that would be a real challenge.
Your thoughts?
Rex
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Rex, years ago Rick Vesco was the "windshield" for a rider that went a lot faster than that. As I recall it was something above 130 MPH.
I'll see what Rick tells me.
FREUD
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Some years ago I read in HRM's Bonneville report that a doctor from San Bernardino, I think, got in behind a blown '55 Chevy and set a paced bicycle record of 137mph! HRM's opinion was that it was done with mirrors.
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The DR. that did it was from the area and in the draft of a hopped up 55 Chev..
John Howard did it in the draft of a special fixture to the rear of the Vesgo family liner.
He was towed up to speed then cut loose and was required to maintain the record speed over the required distance.
It is known in the bike records as the "PASED RECORD".
At one time it was done on a prepared surface between the tracks and behind a train.
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Actually, the human powered record is over 80 and the rider reclined looking ahead. The guy lying on his back is a European and he's the fastest from that continent. ironically, both records were set-not the same year- in northern Nevada on public roads much like the Silver State Classic for cars.
The San Bernardino DR's record behind the '55 was eclipsed, I believe, by the guy that Vesco paced-that bicycle record might be over 150!
The Doctor RAN out to the salt every day from Wendover the year I was there.
What about the dude on SKIS that perched himself on the streamliner!!!!
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(http://www.canosoarus.com/08LSRbicycle/Bicycle%20Images/152%20in%20tow.JPG)
Olympic Cyclist and IRONMAN triathlon winner, John Howard set a 152.2 Miles per Hour speed record at the Bonneville Salt Flats near Wendover, Utah on July 20, 1985. He is drafting in the wake of a 500 Horsepower Streamliner. This type of human powered record is called motor pacing. The pace vehicle was modified by adding a large tail fairing to the 337 MPH record holding Vesco Streamliner. The fairing keeps the wind off John and reduces the aerodynamic drag he is pedaling against to near nothing.
This type of record was invented by Charles "Mile-a-Minute Murphy" who drafted a train to set a 60 MPH record at the turn of the century. A mile of plywood sheets was attached to the railroad ties, so Charles would have a smooth surface. He had to be lifted onto the train just before they ran out of the plywood surface!
The previous record holder at 138.8 MPH set in 1973 was physician, Dr. Allan Abbott, a cycling enthusiast and motorcycle racer.
1995 Fred Rompelberg of the Netherlands sets a new bicycle speed record of 166.9 mph. At the time, he was 50 years old, and the world's oldest professional cyclist.
(http://perso.orange.fr/deviltriathlon/Histoire/histoire_d_fichiers/image032.jpg)
Jos? Meiffret 109 mph 1951. Charles Murphy set the record at 63 mph in 1899 behind a locomotive on Long Island.
(http://perso.orange.fr/deviltriathlon/Histoire/histoire_d_fichiers/image015.jpg)
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if I remember right.... the bike rider behind Vesco had big balls! not because he rode a bike over 150mph following a streamliner.... but he had big balls cuz he crashed and had the balls to try to sue Vesco and anyone else because he crashed!... :roll:
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Anybody remember what the speed rating was on Rompelberg's bicycle tires?
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Anybody remember what the speed rating was on Rompelberg's bicycle tires?
If I remember correctly they were as used on 50cc road Racers of the day with less weight and power through them.
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AND THE ANSWER IS:
It would seem by the rapid drift away from the question it is not very well supported and likely not allowed either. :wink:
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Rex, I'll go back to your question about the video system in lieu of a windshield. We talked about this idea something like a month or two ago -- and got nowhere. First of all -- bike 'liners have a stated requirement of 120 degrees of adequate horizontal vision forward (7.H.7). I suppose there's some number requirement for cars -- didn't find it in a quick glance through the book.
So go ahead and design up a video system -- wide angle lens on the camera, a screen -- maybe two -- that gives a decent representation of that view to the rider that'ls flat on his back or facing bass-ackwards or on his tummy or whatever. It shouldn't be too technologically challenging to come up with a system that not only meets the intent of the rule -- but also makes it possible for the rider to operate the 'liner without becoming disoriented. While you're at it, be in touch with the technical folks and tell 'em what you're doing. Tell them that you're working on the concept and that you'll present it to them for their inspection and for you to prove the concept once it's working.
Once you've got it all thunk up, build one -- I'd expect a thousand bucks would be a decent working budgetary estimate of what it'll take -- video stuff is pretty inexpensive these days.
Practice using the system. Practice 'til you're good at it -- practice in the shop 'til you can read the label on a can being passed in front of the bike by a helper. Then practice in the parking lot 'til you can control the vehicle better than you expected. Then it's time to ask the committee to see it. Have them look at your plans, have them inspect the system in a static display.
Then hop in the bike and give a demonstration at low speed. It wouldn't hurt to have a recording system hooked in, too, so they can see what you saw while you were riding.
Oh, yeah -- think about a fail-safe backup system -- 'cause whatever can break, will -- and you'd be blind if the video system failed. Glen likes his timing lights -- you'd best be able to see where you're going.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone says that you can do this without electronics -- maybe using fiber optics, or mirrors, or some other magic means of getting the picture to the rider's eyes. Don't let those nay-sayers worry yu just now -- go out and show that your proposed vision system will work under race conditions. Maybe even design that backup system into the first iteration -- so you can make a real run with the electronics in operation, thus proving your concept.
We've got a bike streamliner in our long-term dreams, and a video system isn't out of the question for us -- so go ahead and do the inventing and save us the hassle, hey? Thanks.
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As I remember it the only reason the Dr didn't go faster was that's all the '55 could go with the "barn" built behind it..
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Always with the question: Why ?
If improved aero is the objective, get a smaller person.
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Jack, where's your sense of adventure? Don't you ever want to invent something -- if for no other reason, for the sake of inventing something? After all, if Thomas Edison hadn't stolen the assembly line concept from Eli Whitney -- we'd still be watching Ed Sullivan on cuneiform tablets.
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I have looked through the prisim system that Jack had in NT3, and it allowed greater peripheral vision that normal sight.
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Invent ?
If Marcia and Wendy were not the first somebody else would be.
Now they will be the first forever.
Marcia and Wendy were so far first, the "GOOD OL BOYS" made rules that eliminate the possibility of another to try and exceed them.
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Jack, I should have known better than to try to do an end-run around your logic and way of expressing yourself. Let me simply state: Hunh?
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Costella,couldn't see "jack____" when salt conditions were bad with the prisim system,thats why he redesigned the canopy on NBT III. and got rid of it. I don't think a camera type system will work in a streamliner with suspension either, the salt conditions are to rough.
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Slim needs to spend some time at the foot of an elder.
Do we have anybody willing to help him along ? :wink:
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Which foot you wanna see first, Jack? No matter how many times you say it -- I still would rather you come out and say it in plain English. Hey, maybe I even know what you're talking about -- just can't understand your hazy references to unclear points of arcane data lodged in the dim recesses. Can you say it clearly? We already know you like to attempt being clever -- sometimes it gets in the way of the message. Sorry if my expressed frustration sounds like I'm being disrespectful, but I don't understand what you're trying to say. Maybe it's best this way.
Pookie: You might be right about rough conditions making a video system not workable. But you may not be right, either. The only way to determine for sure -- is to try it. Jack C. tried and abandoned his idea -- maybe this one would have to be thrown out, too. We'll never know for sure 'til we try.
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Jon, wait to Jack does a spell check on this. it" video not viedo, go get him Jack maybe he missed a comma this time. :evil:
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He didn't catch where it was spelled right and then returned to it's former glory.
Holding hands while the work is done for you is only rarely useful, it is better have someone point the way and be available to help as required.
Where do you start ?
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Jack said he couldn't focus because of vibration due to the lack of suspension, not because of any defect in the prisim. Sitting up more and getting his head off the floor is the reason for changing the car. As I understand it.
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I think one of the problems with the HPV was that the lack of peripheral vision was problematic, but this may be related to balance and keeping a two wheeled vehicle upright.
Lower A does not automatically equate to lower overall drag. It should though, and it should be relatively easy to keep the Cd the same or even lower by losing the canopy.
Take a look at the small canopy on something like the Buddfab streamliner, how much smaller do you want it?
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Portland Charles Markley ran over 270 MPH with a periscope in his lakester and now he wears a red hat.
FREUD
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Portland Charles Markley ran over 270 MPH with a periscope in his lakester and now he wears a red hat.
FREUD
Have a car number on this? I tried to find a photo of this out of curiosity, and came up empty.
This was a belly tank, correct?
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He didn't catch where it was spelled right and then returned to it's former glory.
Holding hands while the work is done for you is only rarely useful, it is better have someone point the way and be available to help as required.
Where do you start ?
Well if you need a Test Rider I'm available and inexpensive :wink:!I can't spell worth a crap,but I look real good in my Leather's :evil:! How do I apprentice :-o? O'WISE ONE 8-)? I Just want to RACE!!!!!! :-(
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SOCKJOHN It's car 366. in 2006 he ran in C/FL.
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SOCKJOHN It's car 366. in 2006 he ran in C/FL.
Thanks Freud, and thanks to Sumner for the great site!
Interesting that it looks like they have side (and forward) vision through plexiglass as well as the periscope.
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-2/366-2006.html