Landracing Forum
Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials => Bville Motorcycle Speed Trials Rules Questions => Topic started by: jssport on January 08, 2007, 04:55:56 PM
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From reading the 06 Bub/AMA rules, it seems they're saying the seat and/or tail section can NOT be past the rear edge of the tire.
ECTA and SCTA gives us 3 inches past the rear tire though.
Am I reading / interpreting that correctly ?
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Well yep you are reading correctly..
AMA/FIM are no longer the more innovative organizations.. They are more limited then SCTA/BNI and others...
FIM used to be unlimited in design... It has now changed...
Keep reading you will find more... Like seat height rule, length of swingarms, fuel capacities etc etc...
Jon
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Having been bit by the seat height rule before, I finally looked at the rule in the AMA's version. I read the seat cannot be above the rear tire. This is fine by me and my design for special construction. Or do they mean no lower than a line between the tops of the tires? Have I been reading between the lines too long?
I'll leave discussion of the ambiguity of the fender centerline for later....
Sam
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JSS:
In altered/special construction the tail can stick out eight inches behind the back end of the rear tire. In modified the tail must end before a vertical line drawn at the rear of the rear tire (in other words, back the bike to a vertical wall -- the tire must touch simultaneously with or before the tail). That's the SCTA rule.
The ECTA says 3 inches in either class.
I'm not sure what AMA/Bub's/FIM says -- have to go learn to read Swiss-French to find out, but I'll try to figure it out. Especially since I'm thinking of running FIM at Bub's -- gotta know. By the way, AMA has told me NOT to try to ask FIM anything -- go through AMA. Wonder what they're afraid of me hearing if I go direct?
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By the way, AMA has told me NOT to try to ask FIM anything -- go through AMA. Wonder what they're afraid of me hearing if I go direct?
It's more likley what they're afraid of not hearing(on your part) if you go direct.
Todd
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It would seem the AMA and FIM are pulling / pushing in different directions.
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I think that AMA is telling SSS that he may not hear anything from FIM.
DW
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The heck of it is, Dan, that FIM has been more forthcoming with help than has AMA. When I told AMA that I had contacted FIM was when I got "scolded".
I'm not very concerned about running for an "AMA" record -- so I was trying to get the clarifications direct from FIM. The wallpaper they hand out is prettier, I hear. Anyway, I today asked AMA for some more information -- we'll see what I hear.
I don't want to upset them if they're an unavoidable part of the deal -- but if I don't have to be concerned with their rules -- why can't I go direct to FIM -- that's my opinion/question. I don't tell AMA when I query FIM...
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The objectives between them are quite different.
AMA is only responsible to the owner / promoter while FIM is equally inexperienced in the field of LSR, they are learning.
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Not to interrupt, but who is the person to ask about the AMA rules?
I'n not spending the coin for FIM. I just want to pass tech at BUB's.
Sam
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Try an email to Drew Gatewood: drewsmcserv@verizon.net He's the guy that Sue Mason of AMA has told me to contact with technical questions. He does the engine measuring at AMA/Bub's -- maybe other tech stuff, too. He runs a shop -- has responded once right away -- and the other two ties I've sent notes to him -- I'm still awaiting a response.
He's a Chicago Bears fan -- maybe you gotta say something nice about them to get a quick reply.
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Thanks, Slim.
I'll post his response.
Sam
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Sure seems like Jon W. is an expert on seats, tails and port-a-potties. :roll: :-D :-o
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Glen, you might wanna soft-pedal the nasty-grams you send my way -- or I'll stock the timing tower potty with TP that's made from recycled carbon paper -- it's got the skid marks in it already. As for me being expert with seats and tail -- well, you're welcome to think what you wish. You've met Nancy.
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What nasty gram, I was just trying to wake someone up, it's so quiet everywhere I went out side and worked for a while. The timing trailer will stock it's own TP in the future, but messing with the timers may have you using your GPS to find your way back to the pits. :roll:
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Hmmm, no answer from Drew as yet, so I sent a message to Denis.
Now we got a Race! Wonder who will answer first?
Let's see if BUB can set a fire under the AMA....
Sam
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Hmmm, no answer from Drew as yet, so I sent a message to Denis.
Now we got a Race! Wonder who will answer first?
Let's see if BUB can set a fire under the AMA....
Sam
One serves at the pleasure of the other.
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And the winner is Drew and the AMA!
Drew's reponse;
(snip)
In regards to your question "...seat position cannot be above the rear tire" may I ask what rule you are referring to,
and where you found it.
The new (2007) AMA supplemental rulebook should be online within a week.
I believe that in regards to a special construction machine, the seat area (farthest to the rear) must not be above
the appex of the tire, or not above a line drawn vertically upward through the rear axle.
I hope this helps, and please write back if you have further questions.
My actual job for the BUB Motorcycle Speed Trials is measuring the engines, but I will try and help where I can.
Lastly, as I stated earlier, my plate is very full with my normal business so please understand when I say that
I'll get back with you as soon as possible.
(endsnip)
Whew! Back to bodywork,
Sam
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"Quantity is our most important product."
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so seat position cannot be above top of tire......??
wow, dictation snuffs innovation, and makes a mockery
of special construction..........
oh well these records/rules are only about 3 years old anyhow.......
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The measure the motor person with no LSR experience is now guessing at the rules.
It is a shame to put what otherwise might be a nice person in that position.
I think I see a pattern.
"It is like the blind leading the deaf."
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Did I read that right? The seat must be lower than the tire and ahead of the rear axle....I guess if you put it there, you wouldn't need SSS keeping the TP loaded....or a rear fender!
Maybe that's why "Landracing" Jon was a modified instead of altered at Bubb.
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"the seat area (farthest to the rear) must not be above
the appex of the tire, or not above a line drawn vertically upward through the rear axle."
That quote is from Drew's clipped response. The way I read is is that the seat setback is what's being discussed, not the seat altitude.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the responses I've read after Drew's comment was made seem to be misinterpreting what he tried to say. Other rules/other sanctioning bodies talk about having the seat LOWER than the top of the tire -- this talks bout having the seat behind the vertical centerline of the tire.
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The answer is just dripping with clarity.
Remember, all modifications are based on the Production Chopper.
Soon enough the standard UJM will be outlawed and we can get back to out Merican roots.
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God, this is getting tiresome for some of my four-wheeled friends (not me!).
Some suggested solutions . . .
1. Run your bike for time only.
or . . .
2. And I think JD came up with this years ago -- every bike is issued a number (done!) and their top speed is a record (for Bike 123-B, for instance). Whenever you go faster -- you've got a new record!
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If you get tired of looking at bike rule stuff, go read roadsters or vintage and try to get something out of those rules....at least the bike rules are based on protecting someones friend and his soft record....did I write that down or just think it out loud???