Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: killerkel on March 07, 2023, 09:28:52 AM
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Thought its about time I said Hello and shared my build so far.
What do you all think?
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Lakester or Liner? What motor displacement and where do you plan to run? Inquiring minds would like to know more information :cheers:
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Killer, I'm almost sure the seat will not pass tech... needs to be upgraded to 2x4 braces :roll:
OK you knew I was kidding. That is looking like a good start... A couple of thoughts... the wheels and tires look motorcycle, be sure the speed rating is above the record you are pursuing.
Is a tank body going on there or something custom...
Of course we are info hogs in the non racing season.... tell us more about what you are doing
Hey you can even tell us about you.... :cheers:
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A lakester I presume & Stainless is right, the plywood seat wooden work! :roll:
The cage tubing looks a bit small, is it 1-5/8"?
Sid.
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Ok l?ll try and fill in some of the blanks
I?m based in the uk and race historic single seater F3 500 (1950-1960?s).
Hence my choice of a 500cc motor, only it?s going to be turbo charged and run on gas.
With a target speed of 145mph+
It?s a lakester, l like open wheeled cars. K/BGL
The wheels are billet alloy, and yes with some cheaper motorbike tires on them while l am in the build stage.
The keen eyed ones of you spotted my carpentry skills are pretty good :? l?m currently working on the seating position and have made a couple of mock ups. The photos show my first attempt. Once l am happy l get it fabricated in ally.
My aim/dream is to get to the Bonneville around my 60?s birthday?so l got to get a move on (2.5 years).
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K/BGL record at Bonneville was set by B. Daily on 8/21 at 138.226. I recommend that you get a rule book www.scta-bni.org You need to make sure that the frame and roll cage tubing is up to specification. Good luck and we are all looking forward to following your build. Welcome to the fray. Remember you will never again be younger than you are today :cheers:
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Keep focused and your plan on running by ago 60 is possible. SCTA also means Senior Citizen Timing Association :-)
Many of us fit that category by time we actually had a chance to run on the salt.
Ronnieroadster
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Hey Ron! I resemble that remark! aktion086
Sid.
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Cage tubing 1inch 5/8 but isn't there a different spec for K class of 1inch 1/2...I'll read my rule book when i get home. cromag
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Killer, yes you are right, records in classes 2 to 1/2 liter under 175 can use 1.5 inch tubing. But since the unblown record is over 175 it is logical that the blown record will exceed that at some point. That makes your choice of 1 5/8 a good one. From what I can see it looks like you have a 360 cage... protection from all directions.
Keep going, and keep that rule book handy... :cheers:
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Great looking "start", nice cage and structure. I have the feeling that you may want to consider making it longer. Once you start to try to put all of the equipment required to make it a runner you will be surprised how fast space is used up! There is a reason that our cars (guys that race lakesters) are long. Watch the streamliner build that Stainless is doing and you can see how additional length is helpful. You could add additional length behind the rear tires for the fuel and water tanks but you need to make sure that the CG is well forward for aero stability.
Looking forward to watching your build progress. Great looking start!
Rex
Schimmer and Son IF/L 984
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Whilst I'm on 2 wheels and you're on 4 I'm in UK and raced at Bonneville several times and happy to help if I can, cheers Ian
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What is the reason that you are using a 40 year old Honda CX500 engine? Isn't the point to go fast? if you are in the 500cc class, why not use a modern M/C engine that will produce twice the power? Anyway, I like that you are building from scratch and hope you can make it to Bonneville. Good luck to you.
Don
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What is the reason that you are using a 40 year old Honda CX500 engine?
For a motorcycle, it's great, but cars don't have a pushrod class.
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What is the reason that you are using a 40 year old Honda CX500 engine? Isn't the point to go fast? if you are in the 500cc class, why not use a modern M/C engine that will produce twice the power? Anyway, I like that you are building from scratch and hope you can make it to Bonneville. Good luck to you.
Don
Y'all may not have noticed, but there is not a plethora of half liter engines out there... not a single modern 500 from anyone in years.... available to the public... The 500 I am looking at for the liner will have started life as a 600.... of course I may have to test it in the lakester :roll: :evil: lol8
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Once the turbo is attached and IF you build the motor to take lots of boost actual engine selection is almost a non player. I noted that the CX500 is a shaft drive which has allowed the use of a differential and obviously eliminates the need for a PIA chain and Killer has made the rear suspension fully independent so he is ahead of most of the rest of us with live rear axles. I think that I would suggest getting the coil overs out of the air stream, as cars with limited power every aero improvement is better that adding horsepower.
You might think about going with methanol and running in the fuel class as you can run some pretty high boost and not need an intercooler and since the blown gas and blown fuel are very close your goal is basically the same.
Again, a great start. Keep the info coming.
Rex
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I totally agree with Rex's post above about running in the fuel class. Anderson Miller Racing has run their homebuilt CX500 turbo on methanol and are running 140mph with a lightly modified motor. I think their dyno results are in the 130hp range and I am guessing there is still another 25+ horsepower that could be added if needed. If however the CX motor doesn't cut it, the old Honda Interceptor 500 is being run at incredible speeds. Good luck and keep us posted.
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I disagree with most of that. A chain drive is more efficient than a differential, that's why most bikes still have them plus it makes infinite ratio changes easy & when you're dealing with low hp engines of any kind that is an absolutely necessity for getting maximum performance.
An axle shaft with upper & lower links hanging out in the breeze are important in a single seater going into a turn but we don't have turns in LSR so there's no reason to add the drag of two extra links plus whatever it needs in the form of a sway bar hanging out there.
How can engine selection "almost be a non player"? HP is made by how much air an engine can flow (lb's per hr), not by how much boost (air restriction) that is built up in front of it. Equal boost number is never going to get the same performance from a good flowing engine & a bad flowing engine.
Sid.
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I am new to this (LSR) so I am very happy to hear all you views and suggestions.
with regards to the final drive.
Well, I have designed it to use both, so the shaft from the back of engine feeds a 90 degree drive to a sprockets and chain to the final drive shaft.
This allows me to easily change the final drive gearing....when running with CX500T
I know I could have turned the engine 90 degrees and just fitted a sprocket to the engine drive.
But my plan is to try and make the engine mounts and final drive interchangeable with another engine (500cc diesel).
Aslo I do race F3 500 here...and all my race cars run on Methanol...so I may go down that route too.
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You're giving away HP with that drive combo Mate, even if at best, high gear in the bike trans is 1 to 1 & the gear drive for the chain drive is 1 to 1. Then you have an independent rear axle setup that needs axle u-joints that take more of that HP you don't have a lot of in the first place!
A bunch of years ago I helped a friend design a J/GL with a solid mounted go-cart type rear axle to optimize HP. It broke the record & upped it a few times before they retired it. It was a bit of a rough ride at low speed but it payed the bills on the top end.
You are obviously influenced by your single seater cars but Bonneville requires a totally different vehicle than a circuit racer.
Keeping your build simple will get you here sooner & give you better results. Like many you're probably thinking that building something & running it here will fulfil your dreams, well it won't!:roll: This is an addiction & you'll need to go faster so think about being able to evolve the car with minimal design changes.
If I can be any help to you, send me a pm & I'll send you an email. I live in Idaho & have been at this LSR thing for over 30 years with lakesters & liners & my new liner is a 4WD AA/BFS.
Sid.
Sid.
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I'll disagree with Sid on only one point.
You may not set a record but there is an immense sense of accomplishment and satisfaction of having actually driven a car that you built by yourself on the Salt Flats of Bonneville. "It's hallowed ground, Mate!"
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Killer... lots of good advice
This is straight line racing, no turns tighter than 1/4 mile.
To go fast you need to put as much of your motor power as you can to your wheels
As Sid and I will always tell you... keep as much as you can hidden from the wind... and the parts in the wind as small as possible
My car is a chain drive to a live rear axle, no portion of the suspension, front or rear, is in the air. You will want your suspension movement to be limited and stiff... JMO... look at Bockscar 2.0 for ideas of how to do that.
Very few folks want to spend the time and money building to come out and make a couple of passes... as Sid said it is an addiction.... but I have to agree with Neil, there is satisfaction in doing it, but everyone wants to set a record.
Be prepared to become addicted :cheers: