Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: WOODY@DDLLC on September 28, 2019, 09:22:29 AM
-
Just heard: Next Saturday CBS This Morning about B'ville salt disappearing! :?
Looks like we have achieved the impeachment level of newsworthy!?!? :clap
-
Woody --- The salt isn't really disappearing. It certainly is leaving and I believe we know where it is going.
Joe
-
Well I sure hope they don't present the well bribed UofU stooge and the dumb BLM managers that can't see the other side of the road.
-
Probably have fatass giving the yearly I've-done-it-all report.
-
Fake news, just a hook to get you to watch :deal
-
We need to get Russia, Ukraine and Giuliani in on this bet its to make hair dye an orange color for an angel :angel:
-
Well I sure hope they don't present the well bribed UofU stooge and the dumb BLM managers that can't see the other side of the road.
I'll bet they do have the Smirking Scientist on that video!
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
-
Bonneville Salt Flats, UT -- On Saturday, October 5th, 2019, CBS This Morning is scheduled to air a report on conditions at the Bonneville Salt Flats. Check your local listing for exact times.
The CBS network news crew spent two days on the salt in mid-September observing the Utah Salt Flats Racing Association's "World of Speed" event where they spoke with more than a dozen racers, officials and spectators about the unchecked decline in salt crust thickness -- essential to safe land speed racing and record setting for amateur motorsports.
CBS This Morning co-host Jeff Glor, producer Dan Ruetenik and cameraman Roger Masterton conducted interviews with USFRA President Dennis Sullivan and Veteran land speed racer Rick Vesco, both of whom have donated countless hours to the effort to restore Bonneville. Historical racing footage was provided by Pete Farnsworth, builder of the Blue Flame Rocket Car, Danny Thompson shared clips of his father Mickey's original Challenger runs, Al and Jane Teague's Spirit of 76 streamliner, and TEAM Vesco of the 500MPH Turbinator along with film clips going back to the 1950s.
Save the Salt is working with local, state and federal government officials and the mine lease holder to implement a 10-year Restore Bonneville program. It will dramatically increase the amount of salt being pumped onto Bonneville after potash is removed. The current pumping program has helped stabilize Bonneville, but the infrastructure must be upgraded in order to restore this historic landmark. In early 2019, the State of Utah appropriated $5 million to the restoration process, contingent upon receiving $45 million from the federal government and other sources. The program will be administered by the State of Utah in coordination with the U.S. Bureau of Land Management.
Details: "LandSpeed" Louise Ann Noeth | louise@savethesalt.org
-
The program will be administered by the State of Utah in coordination with the U.S. Bureau of Land Management.
Well........ Bummer!
-
Woody --- The salt isn't really disappearing. It certainly is leaving and I believe we know where it is going.
Joe
x 2! !
Mining is an EXTRACTIVE process. In many more ways than just removing the potash . . . . .
:dhorse:
-
I expect more incorrect facts & politically corrected bull$hit will be shared with Joe Public through the media as usual, resulting in no change to the current & unchanged loss of salt still going down the drain to the mining company.
"Disappearing", to go somewhere it can't be found. Here's a news flash! The salt is in the mining company's tailing ponds & the Bonneville drain is still flowing!
Sid. :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:.....................
-
Here you go: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/debate-rages-over-the-future-of-the-bonneville-salt-flats/
Usual BB and BLM responses.
-
Rape is not an opinion! It's a crime!
-
Rape is not an opinion! It's a crime!
Notwithstanding "parental" consent in a dysfunctional arranged marriage where the dowery is the first concern.
Yeah, Woody, that one pi$$ed me off as well.
-
The Bureau of Land Mismanagement is GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY! As a former Chicagoan, I can only wonder how much dinero the BLM guys got for destroying a natural resource. BTW - The Blue Flame got one second of film exposure. wow
-
B1tch Brenda (that's BB right?) thinks the racers should stay off the salt for a couple of years. My guess is so the mining can remove the remainder of the material without any complaints. Then maybe she can get a pile of cash to "do a multi-million dollar government study" to figure out where it's gone...
Hey... it's across the road.... and it will continue to move there till there is none left.
Sure the strip miners are returning some salt.... way less than they are removing, but they are using it to wash more down the drain
I hope the rest of the public won't want their national landmark to disappear until all that is left is that well kept section of salt at the rest area... that is on display to keep the public from seeing the results of strip mining.
probably :dhorse:
-
CBS spent an inordinate amount of time on the Smirking Scientist. The BS started at about 3 minutes into that segment.
BTW, thanks to Olivia Nish for bring a helmet out to the track from SLC during WoS for me to try. Neither that helmet or Rob Freyvogel's solved my problem but I appreciate their assistance.
-
Thank you Dennis Sullivan for actually speaking the stark truth. Hopefully that statement will put an end to the racing advocates tip toeing around on egg shells to try & not pi$$ off the BLM.
Sid.
-
Just finished watching the video clip. Flat out, unbelievable! Everyone asking the question, ?where did the salt go? and the BLM says Mother Nature, in the face of thousands of tons sitting south of 1-80. Mining operations over the decades? Of course not, says the BLM. Just stop racing for a couple of years and see what happens. Could BB have given a more, biased, uninformed and ridicules response? Well, it is the BLM, after all.
With this kind of governments and bureaucratic thinking, the flats are doomed to disappear forever.
John
-
no one who has been going to Bonneville for some time, is surprised AT ALL
this is how it has deteriorated for so long
business as usual
racers asked to perhaps "stay off" for a bit , while mining continues
brilliant AF
-
I stand by my post on Sept. 28 . . .
"Probably have fatass giving the yearly I've-done-it-all report."
-
In the written article....
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-bonneville-salt-flats-racing-debate-rages-over-its-future-2019-10-05/
...... they show this picture....
(https://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2019/10/05/a8880e6b-89b0-41c9-8a8a-99ea1564bfad/thumbnail/1240x698/0ad50a15eed6854b11d0a82525346ddb/racing-spirals.jpg)
(Caption under picture) Racing leaves marks on the surface of the Bonneville Salt Flats CBS NEWS
How bias is that? It would be nice if someone could get them to at least retract that and say that picture has nothing to do with the racing,
Sumner
-
Ok so I got riled up enough to write the following to CBS and hope that many of you follow suit...
===============================================================
This is in reference to your recent article about the Bonneville Salt Flats...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-bonneville-salt-flats-racing-debate-rages-over-its-future-2019-10-05/
I was very dismayed to see the picture of the damage to the salt flats and your caption under the picture that said...
"Racing leaves marks on the surface of the Bonneville Salt Flats CBS NEWS"
That is not damage from racers on the salt flats. If a person was caught doing that on the salt by the racing organizations they would be banned for life from attending any meets on the salt.
The salt flats are open year around to the public with the exception for racing meets. The salt is policed during events to prevent damage to the surface. Unfortunately during the rest of the year some people do go out there and create damage at the edges of the salt. This is against the law and the racing community fully supports law enforcement in apprehending anyone who does damage to the salt surface.
I feel it is the papers duty to make a retraction and set the record straight that what is shown in that picture is not a result of the racing community.
It is the racing community that has brought the mining of the salt and subsequent storage of it south of the salt flats to the attention of the world and have fought for this unique national treasure to be preserved.
Sincerely,
Sumner Patterson
-
Did you notice that the news anchor referred to racers as "greasers" ? I suspect they are trying to send a subliminal message.
-
In the written article....
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-bonneville-salt-flats-racing-debate-rages-over-its-future-2019-10-05/
...... they show this picture....
(https://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2019/10/05/a8880e6b-89b0-41c9-8a8a-99ea1564bfad/thumbnail/1240x698/0ad50a15eed6854b11d0a82525346ddb/racing-spirals.jpg)
(Caption under picture) Racing leaves marks on the surface of the Bonneville Salt Flats CBS NEWS
How bias is that? It would be nice if someone could get them to at least retract that and say that picture has nothing to do with the racing,
Sumner
Fake News about Bonneville. I guess nothing is sacred anymore.
Tom G.
-
Did you notice that the news anchor referred to racers as "greasers" ? I suspect they are trying to send a subliminal message.
Back in my high school days that word (greaser) was a "racial slur."
-
The irony that a place of no BS has become a place of BS is not lost on me.
-
Well spoken Bobby - maximum truth with minimum words :clap
Ed
-
Has there ever been national news coverage of our problem before?
We should flood CBS with Thank You! email. Offer to share your experience and love of the Salt Flats. Then pic nits.
We made the news, use the opportunity.
Sam
-
What so called news agency looks at huge piles of salt and doesn't ask, how did mother nature get that salt over there. Maybe one that is looking to cover for the "swamp"?
-
If you seriously think the media did salt racers a favor with this report you are clueless.
I know a hit job when I see one, and that's exactly what it was.
CBS can go to hell.
-
Being on the news - good. The edited sound bites - bad (mostly).
Especially a couple of seconds of somewhere very teary eyed about hopes and dreams - that's not going to win a bunch of million dollar notes to repatriate some table salt.
I do not know the people or the players but I am sure more was said that ended up, metaphorically, on the cutting room floor.
Please save some salt for me for 2021.
John, UK
-
If you want something done right,... sometimes you just have to do it yourself.
Perhaps the racing community should produce a documentary stating their side of the story
and the truth about the condition of the salt.
-
You, young feller, have just put the kernel of an idea into my head - and I betcha a bunch of others, too.
Why the h*ll shouldn't we? I doubt that it'd be difficult to find a video producer to take this on for the fun and fame, and we've got everything else we need. That'd be Sid with his measuring stick and some of my pics from when I put toilets out (in the mud at the 7 1/2) to shots of the power washer folks just off Land's End and so on.
Comments?? cromag
-
You, young feller, have just put the kernel of an idea into my head - and I betcha a bunch of others, too.
Why the h*ll shouldn't we? I doubt that it'd be difficult to find a video producer to take this on for the fun and fame, and we've got everything else we need. That'd be Sid with his measuring stick and some of my pics from when I put toilets out (in the mud at the 7 1/2) to shots of the power washer folks just off Land's End and so on.
Comments?? cromag
:cheers: :clap :cheers:
CBS did us no favors with the greater population that has no real connection with the racing world but does possibly when it come to preserving a national treasure. The video did not put us in a good light and neither did the written article that implied by the picture and caption that it was us tearing up the salt surface. We love the sound of the cars on the salt but I'll bet the general population has a differing view and associates the cars and the sounds negatively.
Emphasis has to go on the thickness of the salt in the past vs. the present and showing the salt on the other side of the highway. Doing that would not make it very hard for the viewer to visually comprehend what has happened.
Sumner
-
I agree that it was a hack job,but its (CBS) guys,how many people even watch that station on a Saturday morning?I would bet very few
-
I didn't see it live, but then -- we don't have a television set nor fast service to watch via 'puter.
Anyway, yep - time to do our own hack job. :deal
-
Just a few thoughts after reading the comments: Any exposure on TV is probably a good thing overall. Saturday morning is the least watched time slot of the week. Many angry at CBS why? If you are not driving the narrative you are a passenger. The best idea was creating your own documentary. There has to be many college students in the SLC area who would love to do some some work on this. Instead of bustin' each others nut on this forum start contacting people who can help. Contact CBS for a follow up. Multi media is where it's at, there are so many ways online to get exposure so many different angles. I hope this whole situation doesn't end up like the NAE where they complained a lot about money and then rejected any idea that would help in the long run. Control the narrative or it controls you. Newspapers love press releases, magazines love short articles, radios love audio clips, journals love accounts and so on and so on. Web sites, pod casts, documentaries, short films, billboards, events, gatherings, show & shines, fliers, car wraps, so many forms of media to be used. Is there a local brewery that could create a custom beer for the cause. I think you would really have the support if you can accurately get YOUR word out there. Racing on the salt is so freakin' cool who wouldn't want to be a part even if they don't participate, they just don't know the issues or how to help the situation. I know you guys with all your connections and knowledge can pull this off. Just get of this forum and do it.
-
I totally disagree with the idea that " Any exposure on TV is probably a good thing overall."
If the producer/editor is hostile or ignorant about what they are covering, it's going to be negative. TV could make even Mother Theresa look bad.
-
... Contact CBS for a follow up....
Haven't had a reply to the email I sent them, not even a generic computer generated one,
Sumner
-
I totally disagree with the idea that " Any exposure on TV is probably a good thing overall."
If the producer/editor is hostile or ignorant about what they are covering, it's going to be negative. TV could make even Mother Theresa look bad.
I hear and accept what you are saying. My thought is get the exposure to more people then ever, then expose the facts in a follow up. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Most people who saw the CBS piece have no idea about whats going on, but now they have been exposed and now is the time to educate before people start creating an opinion with half the facts. The ball is on the field, somebody pick it up and run with it. Please.
-
CBS spent a lot of money on an 8 minute segment. They have hours more to air if the "Debate " "Rages ".
They are begging us to give them something to be outraged about.
Folks outside LSR took way " Being mined for potash and the Salt isn't being put back. "
So, you're slighted or offended.
Complain to CBS.
They want to hear from you.
Sam
-
I'm sure there are them among us who can make a great video. But how do you get it seen? The message can not be the racers whining, but the destruction of a national treasure for some bucks for the BLM. They seem to like anything that can show a profit, rather than an expense to maintain. Concurrent with government policy regarding other federally-protected lands, this may not be as easy a sell as it would seem. But that's the right way, and probably the best way to approach it. But how do you get it seen?
-
Since the "Save the Salt" persons were the ones who actually were the Pro-Salt part of the program, they are the ones who need to respond to the CBS program with a rebuttal. They need to get CBS to give them air time to respond. If they were to ask for funding to produce a documentary via GoFundMe or other means I am sure they could raise the money. Everyone reading this would contribute.
So here is a challenge to Save the Salt - Talk with CBS to get them to agree to air time. Produce an unbiased documentary on what is really happening, air it and educate the tax paying public that a national treasure is being sold by the BLM.
Don
-
Airing anything on the news is a crap shoot, more often than naught, racing of any sort is not main stream enough. (the greasers comment shows a lack of respect and ignorance) sorry, I digress.
OK, maybe now the message is to document the mining on public land and the resulting destruction of a National Monument. This message might be best shown/aired/produced with National Geographic or Discovery channel.
Best, J
-
For those who are active on Facebook CBS This Morning has a site. They have a post from Oct 5 with a clip of the segment. There are several comments on the clip as well. If enough people direct your comments to CBS publicly they may take notice, social media is so powerful. Looks like things are moving in a positive direction, now.
-
I am not a social media guy. So I googled CBS Saturday morning news and found this page to send them a reply about their programing. So I hope this helps people who don't use social media.
https://audienceservices.cbs.com/feedback/feedback.htm
Tom G.
-
I would like to suggest that you recommend to any one you contact from the "NEWS" or government that they watch the You tube video " 1989 Bonneville Salt Flats Racing". Greg Morgan of the Bureau of Land Management gives an accurate assessment of what is happening to the salt. He clearly states that racing at Bonneville is "non surface disturbing". I believe he states the salt is 3" thick. His interview starts at 29 minutes.To bad the news and government officials didn't see this before they were brain washed by the bureaucrats in charge. I wonder if he is still around. We live in an era where it's almost impossible to get to the truth. To many vested interests.
If we had enough clout (money) we would engage some "civil liberty" lawyers. Then the push back from the BLM lady would be 'let the surface rest for several years' rather then just a few years. :cry:
-
I would like to suggest that you recommend to any one you contact from the "NEWS" or government that they watch the You tube video " 1989 Bonneville Salt Flats Racing". Greg Morgan of the Bureau of Land Management gives an accurate assessment of what is happening to the salt. He clearly states that racing at Bonneville is "non surface disturbing".
George,
Thanks for the heads up as in my reply to CBS I did state that CBS should look at that video from 30 years ago from 29:15 - 32:30 and posted the link to it.
Tom G.
-
Tom, as I have told thousands of people, YOU are a freekin genius!!!! lol8
-
The CBS program illustrates the real problem is that the racers have NO political clout.
Save the Salt is a loser campaign. No one in power will pay attention.
Be smart and get on the environmentalist bandwagon.
SAVE THE BRINE SHRIMP! Get the environmentalists on board. They rule politically.
Brine shrimp (Artemia franciscana) are found widely in North America. They can be found in the salt ponds south of San Francisco and in places where salt water evaporates naturally along the California coast and in the Great Salt Lake, Utah.
Brine shrimp can also be found in salt flats and are an important food source for many wildlife species such as flamingos.
The Wendover mining operation is destroying habitat for BRINE SHRIMP! SAVE THE BRINE SHRIMP!
Oh, and since they don't live on the salt surface, racers do not have a negative impact on brine shrimp - mining DOES!
-
I wrote this several years ago, when we were seeking some local, Utah legislative involvement. Keep in mind we can't change any opinions nationally without winning the support of Wendover, Tooele County and Utah voters. Otherwise we are just dragging their dead weight.
Every time the B.L.M. or the legislature issue a press release or statement about Bonneville, the local, vocal re-pliers to the articles or newscasts are 90% naysayers with opinions that all sound like, "...who cares about a bunch of greasy hot rodding miscreants, with a pack of Camels rolled up in their t-shirt sleeve, locked in adolescence with a high school, macho, stuck in the '60s mentality or rich corporate teams that use the Salt once or twice a year to make commercials.....". Really, it's like yelling at your dog. They hear you, but they just can't care to understand.
Some how losing most of the Salt Flats and losing most of any of the National Monuments (ie: Bear's Ears-Grand Staircase), to make a few jobs and fewer more wealthy; and stealing from all the generations that follow us that will never see those special sunrises of Speedweek or WOS, or smell the nitro on a crisp morning, or share the joy of a new Red Hat, or watch someone repack a chute, or enjoy the brotherhood and sisterhood of sharing the moment, day or week on the Salt, or Native-Americans losing any part of their heritage, is truly tragic. We are all in this, just from a little different prospective. We all need to be aware of each other; fighting the same beast with different means. Maybe, somehow we will learn how close all of our seemingly seperate concerns really are.
I do not know how or if we even can get, some of the American people or Utahans in particular to care, just a little, about someone else's ox that is being gored. I fear it may be too late. Our passion is now moving to Australia and Bolivia, and losing the passionate backbone of the sport, because we can't shout loud enough to get the dog to understand! I truly hope we can find an answer.
-
Perhaps getting more spectators on the salt would increase interest in the sport. There are plenty of people who want to get in on it but have no team, money, car or automotive skills. I see this at the Reno Air Races, they open the pits and there is so much interaction, and the selling of t-shirts, hoodies, hats, stickers, ect. There are opportunities for the small guy to make a few hundred on merch. What about bleachers, observation platforms, shade tents, live footage on big screens, nice portos, food and drink vendors. Yes there are many hurdles but there may be a big pay off in support and positive vibes. There are people out there who have more money then they know what to do with, make them VIPs and teach them how they can help the community and be a hero at the same time. Legendary status available?
-
I believe that the best route to take is the "Save a National Treasure" route.
National Geographic, Discovery channel, PBS, etc... are probably the folks with the most clout in that area
and have the best chance of getting the story told on television.
There are also the internet, social media avenues to getting the word out.
Whatever the outlet may be,
The public has to be made aware of the issues before any change will happen thru gov't intervention.
However.... I still think that the quickest course of action is through Intrepid itself.
Control the mine and you control the mining.
In the end....... it all comes down to money.
Seriously, in the end it all comes down to money.
-
More dim bulb rewrite of the CBS: https://www.racingjunk.com/news/2019/10/07/the-future-of-the-bonneville-salt-flats/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Burnoutnewsletter
-
Jack, here is what I wrote as a reply to that article:
"Brenda Bowen and the BLM are pulling a sleight-of-hand trick on the public. They define the salt surface as the "crust package", not the hard top crust layer that we race on. Their "crust package" includes the salty mud underneath the hard crust, a completely different thing. We don't race on that mud.
This loss of the hard salt surface is clearly the mining operation. There are millions of tons of the unused mined salt left over on the south side of I-80. Getting that returned to where it came from would help restore the Bonneville Salt Flats."
I hit "ENTER" but my post never showed up. Apparently you need to be logged in to post anything and I'm not going to do that. I get enough SPAM from websites already. Arrrggghhh.
-
We are being played. Until we start lawsuit's against the BLM and Intrepid nothing will get done. The CBS story isn't going to get us anywhere. Save the Salt needs to quit being nice.
-
We all need to stop being nice. We can send a message by "booing" at the Speedweek driver's meeting when the BLM representative gets up to speak. Shout 'em down!
Jeff in Boise
-
I am reasonably sure that the local agent of the BLM is not the decision maker (alone) about mining leases and such. You have to remember that SCTA and USFRA etc, need a permit to hold a meet. Being unpleasant rather than trying to work with them may threaten those permits and they decide to listen to Bowen. Unfortunately, politically speaking, our voices-and pocketbooks- are small.
-
Change 'Save the Salt' to 'New Green Impeachment Deal' and you'll be heard even if it just one of you! :-( :dhorse: :-( :dhorse:
-
My concern in all of this is a big WHAT IF. What if the top echelon of the BLM decided that in view of the criticism they are receiving from the land racing community, they are going to do the right thing. What if the right thing in there mind was to start the reparations with no regard to the race season. What if in an effort to put a measurable amount of salt back on the surface it meant not stopping to let it dry during the summer. What if they used the same formula the highway dept. uses for repairing our roads. Just put up barriers and redirect the traffic and a few years later there done. Maybe the BLM lady's "let it rest for a few years" was in the works. In view of the drama associated with the deteriorating salt (wrecks, engine carnage, aborted runs) what if the SCTA saw the wisdom in this?? I'm just saying, what if. :|
-
I cannot see how the mining company can have any interest in returning the salt, even if someone else paid for it. Surely that would 'dilute' the desirable content as the potash to salt ratio would get worse with every repatriation so each subsequent gallon of briny water pumped for extraction yields less potash and more salt thereby becoming more expensive and subsequently less commercially viable.
The salt will be returnable when they pack up shop and move on so the racing community needs to acquire Intrepids I-80 mining operation as the racing community seem to be the people who care most about this natural wonder / national treasure.
With luck the SO4 mining company in Australia will make Intrepid unsustainable and they will sell the plant and the salty tailings for a song: https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/213817/salt-lake-potash-working-on-bankable-feasibility-study-as-first-brine-begins-pumping-213817.html
-
It sounds like they already have a solution. If racers keep writing letters like some suggested here maybe they will just eliminate the problem by stopping all racing. It is obvious they won't stop the mining until all is ruined.