Landracing Forum
Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials => Bville Motorcycle Speed Trials General Chat => Topic started by: gschuld on October 19, 2018, 08:40:07 PM
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I guess it seems like a dumb question. But my understanding is that assuming the bike is functioning as it should, the vast majority of each day is spent out in the sun waiting in line to get the next run in.
Temperatures in the 90s plus, glare from the white salt, and hot sun beating down at you while wearing a thick black leather suit of armor sounds like a challenging situation. I’m a pretty hearty guy, I work outdoors my fair share, and work with my hands. I enjoy hiking, camping, and being in nature in general.
My biggest weakness is my apparent low resistance to very high temperatures. Maybe my heavy Danish background has something to do with that. I simply start to melt down at some point😏
Clearly keeping under shade as much as possible is the most obvious start. Drinking plenty of water/fluids is a must. For those hours long waits, is it common to have the bike strapped on a small trailer and relax in the truck with the A/C on or is that unwelcome to have a truck idling the whole time?
So what is everyone doing to stay cool?
George
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George, I have the same concern as you. No too heat tolerant. Luckily I do have my bike(s) in the trailer while I wait in the truck with A/C on. I have seen some riders waiting hours in the sun just sitting on their bikes in full leather gear. Heat stroke city!
But the staging areas have shade tents with lots of water available if you don't have your own shade. You can leave your bike in line and wait under the pop up tent.
The volunteers regularly walk along the lines and if they see that you have passed out from heat stroke they will pull your body to the side so the line can move up.
Don
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In 2016 it was in the 90s at BMST, I saw a lot of guys in the know with thin white cotton long sleeve shirts.
I thought it was a good call
But if im in my leathers ,Waiting on deck with 2-3 guys in front of me, There is nothing better than sitting in the van with the air on
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In 2016 it was in the 90s at BMST, I saw a lot of guys in the know with thin white cotton long sleeve shirts.
I thought it was a good call
But if im in my leathers ,Waiting on deck with 2-3 guys in front of me, There is nothing better than sitting in the van with the air on
So hanging out in the support vehicle with the AC on is an acceptable and common practice? That’s a relief😉
Good to know about the heat stroke disposal system. Very thoughtful😁
George
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My experience this year as a heat intolerant ginger was
#1 Black leathers are a bad choice out there. White is best, followed by any light color. Mine are mostly yellow. I redyed them (actually an acrylic coating) from a darker color. I do this for local racers and would be willing to do a redye for fellow salt racers for a reasonable price.
#2 Keep the top half of your leathers off until you are about third in line. I tried a mesh undersuit and it did seem to help keep the leathers from soaking and clinging to my skin so badly.
#3 Water yes, gobs of it. But make sure you are getting electrolytes during the day too. We had an ER nurse on our team and she made me drink one or two bottles of water with electrolytes every day along with the regular water after told her I was having brutal leg cramps each night. Cured them. Nuun tablets work great.
#4 110 SPF sunscreen. Our team of 6 went through two spray cans. I only got a one inch wide stripe of sunburn where I missed one ankle. And a gnarly pipe burn when my bare knee hit a hot exhaust. Dumb.
#5 Bring your floppy hat along to the starting grid. Bring a big reflective golf umbrella in your support vehicle. The volunteers are absolutely wonderful about making sure everyone gets water and a chair, but sometimes the canopy shade can get a little crowded if there are 10 riders waiting to run. If you are just riding out to pre grid without a support vehicle you obviously can't do this.
If you can get some training done in warm weather before hand it will help. I did a lot of running in 70 and 80 degree weather during the summer and spent one afternoon in leathers at the drags on an 85 degree day a couple weeks before.
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Thanks for the thorough response.
For a number of reasons, I’m unlikely to be able to make it out to Bonneville for more than an event or two. I have a brand new custom made two piece Vanson VO-93 RR race suit in all black. It’s top shelf protection, and dying it wouldn’t be my preference. I went with all black strictly for aesthetics for vintage road racing purposes. It includes black supertech R boots and a matte black Arai helmet. It was rather pricey gear😳. And shooting for north of 150mph, safety first👍
To get around this, I could park myself in my support vehicle with my wife(she IS good company BTW👍) and a “chew chief” friend with my jacket off until I’m close to the front correct? Being in the A/C among friends sounds to be a LOT more comfortable😉.
Fluids, sunscreen, light color clothing, big brimmed hat, etc no problem.
George
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George, Nancy and I had our suits made by Z Leathers in light colors - on purpose. Vintage appearance is all fine and dandy but I was to be awake and alert to enjoy the colors. They're two-piece zip-together suits that allow us to wear the pants, therefore partially dressed, but hot the top - staying cool 'til we're only a few vehicles from next (BTW, we do not race at AMA events so don't know the routines there).
But of most importance for our comfort: We both have full-body Kevlar underwear from the Draggin' Jeans company. They're a coarse-weave mesh that is surprisingly good at letting breezes in (when not wearing the leather jacket). Yeah, we looked kinda funny in long-sleeve yellow thermal underwear (or so it appeared) but dangit, we were very cool.
Of course there was the time that Nancy crashed and they tried to cut her underwear off. That created quite a stir in the ambulance, I'm told -- "WTF? This stuff won't cut!! Get some tin snips!!"
Other stuff: Russ O'Dally, chief bike inspector back a year or four ago, would walk around to his inspectors (me and others) and ask "When's the last time you peed?" If you hesitated or said a time more than an hour or two ago - - he'd hand over a bottle of water and have (us) drink it right then and there. Prevention!!!!
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I hear you about the leathers color. I originally had these leathers made for the purposes of vintage road racing. 15 minutes races at speed and you are in the shade or inside an air conditioned building or RV for as much of the rest of the time as you want for the most part. The classes are on a schedule and constantly announced and updated so you know when you are getting ready to go. Bonneville is a whole different ball of wax. It’s more like open test and tune night at the local mid summers day dragstrip in the desert.😳
If I was buying leathers today with Bonneville in mind, yes I sure would go with a lighter color. Too late now... Good top regarding the Kevlar undergarments. Extra abrasion resistance as well. Safety bonus as well.👍
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I have black two piece leathers (heavy weight with armor) but don't put them on until I am 3rd or 4th in line at the USFRA event (yes I do it in line on the back of the trailer but the one dollar bills collected help pay the entry fees). So far (since '12) I have not gotten too warm in line. I do have the Kevlar long underwear (thanks to a suggestion from SSS). They were kind of spendy but still cheaper'n a skin graft. The open weave does seem to help keep you cool(er).
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I have black two piece leathers (heavy weight with armor) but don't put them on until I am 3rd or 4th in line at the USFRA event (yes I do it in line on the back of the trailer but the one dollar bills collected help pay the entry fees). So far (since '12) I have not gotten too warm in line. I do have the Kevlar long underwear (thanks to a suggestion from SSS). They were kind of spendy but still cheaper'n a skin graft. The open weave does seem to help keep you cool(er).
Good to know the show you put on helps defray the costs of racing😉. Good plan.
George
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I will ditto what Doc B said about proper hydration and add my own tip. I live in Arkansas where it is often 90+ temp wise and 60 to 70% humidity. This is almost impossible to stay hydrated in, no matter how much water or Gatorade you drink. I tried some of the newest Pedialyte and it is a huge improvement in getting your body balanced back. It also helps with the leg cramps when you cool off. Buy it at Walmart for $3+ and notice the difference. It doesn't taste as good as the sugary Gatorade, but it is much healthier and gives a ton more relief. The new formulas taste much better than what we gave our kids twenty years ago.
My plan on bike is similar to what of the other guys have said. I pull the bike off the trailer about 6 or 8 to go and then get pants on and about 3 cars/bikes before I get the top zipped on. An umbrella is nice if you have a big enough crew, but the best thing is to just stay hydrated and in the a/c before you run.
Peeing isn't an issue, I always run to the Honey Wagon a few times as the line gets short.
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Oh, One more thing to EVERYONE, Buy a COOL Undersuit, Mine is an Alpinestar, Its a Onesy Cool Suit, It is the Best $ 100
Ive invested, Makes puttin on an taking off leathers a breeze , And when you wait keep the top half of your suit off, Its
A long sleeve and just keeps you cool,Amazing stuff its made out of !
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Yeah the undersuit is nice in terms of getting the gear off. Mine is an RS Taichi. Should probably note here that the AMA suit requirements are a little different than SCTA in that vent holes and stretch Kevlar panels are legal. They can help a lot to keep you cooler. I had a choice of an older Vanson one piece or my favorite Dainese two piece and ended up going with the two piece because I could tuck in better and I feel like the armor is a little better design.
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Keep the comments coming. I was looking into the average weather at Bonneville in August. It appears that 90 degrees with 22% humidity is a average for the peak and high 60s in the evenings. 90 degrees with such little humidity is not too bad. I’m use to FAR more humidity at that temperature. So perhaps I am overly concerned about the heat thing. It should be within my general limits.
George
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George, Nancy and I had our suits made by Z Leathers in light colors - on purpose. Vintage appearance is all fine and dandy but I was to be awake and alert to enjoy the colors. They're two-piece zip-together suits that allow us to wear the pants, therefore partially dressed, but hot the top - staying cool 'til we're only a few vehicles from next (BTW, we do not race at AMA events so don't know the routines there).
But of most importance for our comfort: We both have full-body Kevlar underwear from the Draggin' Jeans company. They're a coarse-weave mesh that is surprisingly good at letting breezes in (when not wearing the leather jacket). Yeah, we looked kinda funny in long-sleeve yellow thermal underwear (or so it appeared) but dangit, we were very cool.
Of course there was the time that Nancy crashed and they tried to cut her underwear off. That created quite a stir in the ambulance, I'm told -- "WTF? This stuff won't cut!! Get some tin snips!!"
Other stuff: Russ O'Dally, chief bike inspector back a year or four ago, would walk around to his inspectors (me and others) and ask "When's the last time you peed?" If you hesitated or said a time more than an hour or two ago - - he'd hand over a bottle of water and have (us) drink it right then and there. Prevention
Sorry to butt in on the Kevlar issue. A new good scissors works but not for long. I buy a new pair every time I have to do a Kevlar job. Box cutter but you'll need to be super careful or a large blade scalpel. :roll:
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The EMTs in the ambulance didn't have a wide assortment of tools - the tin snips worked.
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George, don't let the low humidity fool you. Ninety degrees is plenty hot, but in the sun with full leathers it can be very uncomfortable, especially with those stylish black leathers that absorb every ray of sunshine.
The worst conditions are at the Arkansas Mile when it is hot, because it will be 80 to 95 and humidity in the 60+ %, that is brutal unless you are very careful.
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Yes, I wouldn’t take it lightly by any means. Minimizing my direct sun exposure would be a big deal, especially in those black leathers. I like the idea of the Kevlar or other under layer idea. Makes sense to me.
So on a typical run, I’d be fine ru ning myself back to the pits afterward, and I’m OK to bring myself to the waiting line again under power. Since I’d be functionally riding a lowered onboard electric start streetbike,
this doesn’t pose a problem. It’s the time waiting for the next run that seems to be the concern.
I’ve read varying reports about average wait times, so what’s the deal there? I understand that a crash can certainly delay things without warning, but otherwise we are talking anything from 30 minutes to several hours? It’s the latter that is of concern. Bringing portable shade like a big beach umbrella like some have mentioned seems logical enough.
Someone mentioned shaded areas set up near the waiting area. Is this intended for racers to keep out of the sun or is there fast enough movement in the line to be at the bike moving it constantly?
I assume it’s something like open test and tune night at the dragstrip? Free for all, first come first serve, wait and move and wait until it’s your turn. Long line but quick turnover unless an incident happens?
What’s the general percentage of those riders waiting solo with their bikes trying to stay cool(umbrella, jacket off) while pushing their bikes as the the line moves until the next run compared to those with bikes on trailers with the rider and crew in the support vehicle until go time?
I suppose many racers have more complicated needs bike wise so that isn’t practical. But of those pretty uncomplicated jump on and ride type bikes... solo or support vehicle/trailer?
George
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I haven't been to the BMST but I betcha it's similar to SCTA/BNI and USFRA events and so on. That is, I have never heard anyone say "NO! Get Out! There's no room for you under OUR shade, peon!!"
Nope, not even once.
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George, don't let the low humidity fool you. Ninety degrees is plenty hot, but in the sun with full leathers it can be very uncomfortable, especially with those stylish black leathers that absorb every ray of sunshine.
The worst conditions are at the Arkansas Mile when it is hot, because it will be 80 to 95 and humidity in the 60+ %, that is brutal unless you are very careful.
Must be global warming drying out the air... I lived in Blytheville for about 8 years and remember a lot of 90 degree days, but never remembered humidity as low as 60 :-o we always said the temp was 90-90....
Shade at Bonneville is a premium... everyone that has it shares it with anyone that wants to stand in it. :cheers:
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I don't believe there are any SCTA, or BNI events that will let you go to the line, or back to the pits under power, thats why you need a crew vehicle.
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At BMST you have the choice of bringing your bike on/in a support vehicle to staging or riding it to staging. I'd guess about 85% of bikes ride out even if a support vehicle comes out to the staging area. Regarding wait times, riders are sent out from pre stage to staging in groups of ten. IIRC the ideal average that the track stewards shoot for is about three and a half minute intervals per run. So when things are flowing the wait usually isn't much more than 30 minutes. On the short/intermediate course the groups alternate from the two starting miles (0 & 1 in 2018) so there can be a bit of a wait for the riders at the other starting point.
That said, on my first run I waited about an hour and half due to a crash happening just as I got to pre stage and being rider number 10 in the group. I qualified on my down run and when I got to the 4 mile for my return only three riders in the group got to run before the wind came up and the course closed with two of us still waiting to run. We waited for about 1-3/4 hours until the end of the day but the wind never let up. So I spent roughly 4 hours in line that day. However when I was out there I didn't really mind. Even though it was hot I was having so much fun hanging with other salt racers that it is some of the best time in my memory. AMA Ken kindly gave us priority to run in the first group released the next morning and things were running so smoothly I had a record before breakfast.
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As several posters have pointed out above, the first thing is try to bring your own shade, if you can squeeze a golf umbrella into your pocket, tape it to your seat to get to staging or to the starting mile then that will help. BMST is very good at providing pop ups for riders shade but they can get busy at times. Even when they are busy you will still find space under the shade.
Keep your fluids up. Again BMST will provide water for riders. and water will be at every start point. Bring your own Gatorade or similar, it is amazing how quickly you lose minerals and electrolytes from your body, it is equally amazing how quickly that will take you from feeling fine to feeling very far from fine and very very uncomfortable. Back in 2008 I thought I had it all covered, factor 70 sunblock, a hat, long sleeves and I was drinking pints and pints of water. I started to feel ill at the farewell banquet and 3 days later I was still feeling rough. It is not a mistake I have made again.
We always try to make sure every rider knows where they are in the line up, and we try to give each rider a heads up of when they have 3 bikes in front of them. I hope that this gives everyone enough time to get themselves kitted up and ready to ride without having to rush or panic to get ready, but not so much time as they are sitting for too long with the leathers zipped up and their helmet on.
Of course none of us can male allowances for an incident on course or the wind coming up. Also, a cloth to get wet and put round your neck can be a massive help. In 2017 the OSRT guys gave Dawn and I one of their keep 'em cool cloths, they are great. Make it wet and plop it on your head, it's lovely. And it really help to keep your core temp down.
Cheers
John
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John, I can't begin to describe just how amazing you volunteers are out there at the starting line and everywhere else at the event. You make us feel like royalty.
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Ive been to BMST 4 Times, True they take care of you, But the one place lacking is,What I call,ON DECK , Thats where you are fully ready leathers,Helmet & Gloves, And waiting as the one guy in front takes off, Now your 100% Exposed, I have asked BMST why not a long EZ-Up for the next in line only,They told me, Please Help out,and ask , Any sponser that would like to step up and do one or two EZ-Ups for this area let me know and Ill make it happen, Ive looked on Ebay, For a fully printed Your name all over it say 10 x 12 EZ - Up $600 - $ 1000
I have reached out to a few Owners and places ,but so far, No ones in . Again, If you might want to ,Ill get you any info needed and in contact with the powers at be to get it done , Man that would sure be nice to have Two, One for each course... DW
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Or an umbrella girl.
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The temps on the salt are less than at Wendover. Time slips from ten years of racing show it to be in the low 70's on average at BMST. Maybe it is the white surface that lowers the temps. It reflects rather than absorbs some solar radiation. There is water and shade available.
In the summer I spend a lot of time outdoors in the sun and avoid air conditioned places as much as possible. This includes driving in the truck. The conditions at the salt flats are no big deal 'cause I am climatized to outdoor life. Us human type animals are amazingly adaptable.
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Spent the majority of my working life installing roofs in the high humidity and heat in the tropical region of Australia, therefore the heat at Gairdner and Bonneville do not bother me,, however it affected some of my employees, so I ensured thay had plenty water (at ambient, not cold) and also provided trailmix for them to snack on thru the day, thay all commented on how thay felt better for it,,
The altitude at Bonneville can cause one problems, my first cuppla meets at Bonneville I felt tied and listless and couldn't reason why until one year after BMST we went back to SanFran then back up to WOS and I felt fine
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Or an umbrella girl.
Where's Tony... we need umbrella girls :cheers:
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Or an umbrella girl.
Where's Tony... we need umbrella girls :cheers:
I should check with my wife before volunteering her🙄. No grab a$$ fellas😁
George
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Or an umbrella girl.
Where's Tony... we need umbrella girls :cheers:
Emailed him numerous times. No response. I hope he's OK????.
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I heard that all those bottles of water being handed out at BMST are paid for by a really awesome sponsor. I wonder who that could be??? :-D
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I heard that all those bottles of water being handed out at BMST are paid for by a really awesome sponsor. I wonder who that could be??? :-D
No idea who they are, but wow, we like 'em. If I bump into them in '19 I might buy them a bottle of water!
:cheers:
In all seriousness though, that water is so needed, and thank you for sponsoring it. More than once we have run over to a rider and handed them a bottle. Then waited beside them to make sure they get some of it inside themselves. Sometimes you just know don't you that "that guy really needs some fluids".