Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SpeedWeek 2018 => Topic started by: trimmers on August 17, 2018, 05:44:12 AM
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In looking through the various speed postings on the SCTA-BNI website, it appears that something's missing. Or, maybe I'm just missing something!
The website displays speeds under four different headings (Daily High Speed, Daily Runs, Daily Qualifiers, and Daily Certified Records) for both the long and short courses.
If somebody makes a qualifying (aka “down”) run above the record they're running on, then that shows up under the Daily Qualifiers heading. However, this heading only lists the fastest speed (i.e. at any given mile) for the entire course.
If we want to see all the results for that run, we've got to look at the Daily Runs, which (for the long courses) show all the actual speeds for: Quarter, Mile 1, Mile 2, Mile 3, and Exit.
Then, if their record run the next morning is adequate and the average of their two runs exceeds the existing record, we can look under Daily Certified Records to see the new record.
Here's where the problem lies. Under Daily Certified Records, the only things shown are the speeds for the new record and the old record. It doesn't show the speeds they ran on the actual new record run. And, for some inexplicable reason, the new record run speeds aren't shown under Daily Runs, either.
Let's take the 911 B/FR as an example. Its August 14 speed of 293.977 speed is listed under three different headings (Daily High Speed, Daily Runs, and Daily Qualifiers). Although this particular car normally only runs through the end of the first timed mile (“Mile 1”) on the long course, its speeds all along the course are listed under Daily Runs.
Next, it made its record run on August 15. Under Certified Daily Records, it shows the old B/BFR record of 260.299 and the 911's new record of 297.220. But it doesn't show any of the speeds they actually made on their record run. And, as I said above, for some inexplicable reason, their record run speeds aren't shown under the Daily Runs heading either.
In this case, since the 911 qualified at 293.977, and ended up with a record 2-run average of 297.220, it's obvious that their record run must have been over 300MPH! According to the calculator on my phone, it must have been at 300.463MPH.
So, am I missing something, or what? This could also figure in to the records runs scheduled for today (August 17) in general and the Hot Rod Trophy in particular. Although they haven't posted yesterday's runs yet, I believe Speed Demon had a A/BFS qualifier of 448.508 on their own 423.521 record.
This means they could actually get a new A/BFS record with a run slightly under 400MPH. But what everybody will be looking for is whether or not they can retain the Hot Rod Trophy – which will would take a run faster than Turbinator II's 463.038. However, the way they appear to be listing things, the speed on their actual record run won't be posted – only their 2-run average speed would show up! So, how would we know if they ran fast enough for the trophy?
Jeff in Boise
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Jeff,
you are correct....the data logs of the return run is missing....but this is not new...
this is now in the last three years...this gave me a hard time the last two years when I wrote my article for the Fast Facts magazine (the quarterly magazine of the Speed Record Club in England)....as I couldn't give the number for the return speed...or I have to make my own calculation....
This year, as an example....the #911 with the B engine run on his return run over 300 mph to get the average for the now record....would be great to see the numbers he done on that run....
Would be great if the SCTA had the chance to go back and also published this return runs, as they are not that many.....
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As Pork Pie says, you are not missing anything.
One way you can find out unofficially is to listen to the Jon and Ron show. Recordings are available - probably not in Germany though. :cry:
At least the record return runs happen first so you only need to check the first hour or so on any given day.
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As Pork Pie says, you are not missing anything.
One way you can find out unofficially is to listen to the Jon and Ron show. Recordings are available - probably not in Germany though. :cry:
At least the record return runs happen first so you only need to check the first hour or so on any given day.
While all that may be true, they really should be posted along with the other results - for all to see.
Jeff in Boise
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Actually, it's opposite....we are missing something important....the numbers of the return run are also a part of the record...so WE LIKE TO SEE THEM...
HOW long we need to fix Al Teague's record number from 1991 under FIA, as someone had mix up the data's and nobody could find the numbers of both runs....
All the pdf's from the SCTA are going straight into my digital archive, to have them if by some reason the data's going lost on the SCTA page...
the only right way a historian works....collecting and protecting the facts....
and the return runs are FACTS, too...
:roll: :roll: :roll:
As Pork Pie says, you are not missing anything.
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Agree! I wouldn’t think that including them in the Daily Runs would be that big of a deal.
Jeff in Boise
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In this case, since the 911 qualified at 293.977, and ended up with a record 2-run average of 297.220, it's obvious that their record run must have been over 300MPH! According to the calculator on my phone, it must have been at 300.463MPH.
So, am I missing something, or what? This could also figure in to the records runs scheduled for today (August 17) in general and the Hot Rod Trophy in particular. Although they haven't posted yesterday's runs yet, I believe Speed Demon had a A/BFS qualifier of 448.508 on their own 423.521 record.
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Your calculator is working. :lol:
About 49 minutes into the broadcast:
Mile 2 - 252.838 mph ¦ 2¼ - 295.414 mph ¦ Mile 3 - 300.463 mph
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Unfortunately, there’s no
guarantee that all speeds will be announced on the “Ron-Jon Salt Shop”. They should be posted along with the rest of the results so they’ll be easily accessible in the archives.
Jeff in Boise
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I agree also.
The Record Return Run on Tuesday of 326mph by car number 500 (Arnold - Hoddinott - Leggitt - Salkins) 1953 Studebaker in C/CBFA was not shown on the SCTA-BNI website.
In my opinion, this was the most impressive run of the event.
The "Ron and Jon" show does not announce speeds for all the runs.
I was there for 3 1/2 days and many of the speeds were not announced (mainly the ones we were interested in).
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In my ideal world the SCTA would dig into their archives and put the times/speeds of all runs ever during Speed Weeks (from 1949 onwards) on line for everyone to see.
But it's not going to happen - for many reasons. They have no obligation to publish any information for Joe public.
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IIRC SCTA has ONE paid employee, methinks we ought-ta be happy with what we're getting.
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Amen.
Perhaps one of the above would volunteer a week or so in Utah every year to fix this "problem".
That's how I got my job.
Stan
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Sorry,
we are all (also the once who can't listen to the streaming) can be more than happy what Jon and Ron doing from their announcer box....
It's absolute impossible to get all numbers from all four courses....
very often the racers running on three courses to the same time ( I framed one day a picture with racers one course 1, 2 and 3...in the same moment)....what you will focus on...
So we have to accept that sometimes our favorite racer will be not announced.
Be happy what we get.
I agree also.
The Record Return Run on Tuesday of 326mph by car number 500 (Arnold - Hoddinott - Leggitt - Salkins) 1953 Studebaker in C/CBFA was not shown.
In my opinion, this was the most impressive run of the event.
The "Ron and Jon" show does not announce speeds for all the runs.
I was there for 3 1/2 days and many of the speeds were not announced (mainly the ones we were interested in).
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and about SCTA....
they doing a fine job with providing the data logs....a couple minutes ago the yesterday data showed up on the web page.
and yes, the most jobs are done by volunteers.....so stand up and support them.
From the side of a historian, I still would be interest into the return runs data....just for the facts....not necessary now, but maybe in a couple of days when everything settle down...
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Slim and Ron are getting their data from a computer feed, correct? I wonder if in future years, it would be possible to stream that data on the web.
Mike
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Tricky... The SCTA does not keep those old records. They are in private collections which took years to gather.
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The Record Return Run for car number 500 (Arnold - Hoddinott - Leggitt - Salkins) 1953 Studebaker in C/CBFA was not shown in the SCTA-BNI Daily Run - Long Course listing for Aug 14.
I was able to get the following times from the Ron & Jon show archives:
1/4 251.007
Mile 1 291.154
Mile 2 305.023
Mile 3 326.969 Wow !!!!!! (Stock Body 53 Stude)
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The Record Return Run for car number 500 (Arnold - Hoddinott - Leggitt - Salkins) 1953 Studebaker in C/CBFA was not shown in the SCTA-BNI Daily Run - Long Course listing for Aug 14.
I was able to get the following times from the Ron & Jon show archives:
1/4 251.007
Mile 1 291.154
Mile 2 305.023
Mile 3 326.969 Wow !!!!!! (Stock Body 53 Stude)
That is an amazingly fast speed - too bad it didn't count! Their qualifier (on Aug 13) was in Mile 2 at 282.694, so they had to use the 305.023 speed from Mile 2 on the record run for a 293.694 average. At least they know it's got a blue hat in it someplace!
Jeff in Boise
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"...Mile 3 326.969 Wow !!!!!! (Stock Body 53 Stude)..."
Proof of the old adage that there's nothing like cubic horsepower. That and enough weight/traction to get it to the ground.
Grand run to hear, for sure. Congratulations on getting the car to the salt so it can stretch its legs. :cheers: