Landracing Forum
Thrust-powered Land Speed information => Discussions on absolute land speed records => Topic started by: J79 on February 10, 2018, 04:46:18 PM
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My question is, if you were a billionaire and wanted to break the current Land Speed Record of 763mph by Thrust SSC
1. how long would it take you to either buy a car already made, North American Eagle, Aussie Invader, Steve Fossetts Sonic Wind... or a make a custom made car and break the current 763mph record?
2. what would you use for power?
3. what speed could you easily reach?
4. how much do you think it would cost? Say that you agree to pay workers $50,000 per year, pay all their living expenses while working, provide free food and sleeping rooms, and pay their normal bills at home so they don't go broke while working to build/run the car?
5. include anything else you think would be important.
I just watched the SpaceX launch of their heavy rocket and saw the 2 rocket boosters land upright, side by side, which goes to show you that a land speed record should be obtainable compared to that. This 1 minute video shows the boosters as they fire their rockets prior to landing with sonic booms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_kfM-BmVzQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_kfM-BmVzQ)
10 most wealthiest people in the US as an example of who could easily afford it:
Bill Gates of Microsoft 81 Billion
Jeff Bezos of Amazon 67 Billion
Warren Buffet Bershire Hathaway 65 Billion
Mark Zuckerber Facebook 55 Billion
Larry Ellison Oracle 49 Billion
Michael Bloomberg Bloomberg LP 45 Billion
Charles Koch 42 Billion
David Koch 42 Billion
Larry Page Google 38 Billion
Sergey Brin Google 37 Billion
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I think you would need some pretty talented engineering staff. Several fabricators of better than A&P skills. And other people I have not thought of. So unless they were really interested in the project, and probably even if they are, $50,000 is not going to be to enticing. You would think someone like Larry Elason, who pays for Americas Cup boats, would be into this kind of thing. It would be chump change for him.
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RichFox. The wealthy car owner was offering to pay all your living expense while working on the car, pay $50,000 a year as payment and pay all living expenses of that person at home so if they had a home, apartment, shop...those expenses would be paid, so it might be more like $100,000 per year. I know that doesn't change much, but it's something.
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RichFox. The wealthy car owner was offering to pay all your living expense while working on the car, pay $50,000 a year as payment and pay all living expenses of that person at home so if they had a home, apartment, shop...those expenses would be paid, so it might be more like $100,000 per year. I know that doesn't change much, but it's something.
The quality and qualifications that would be required of individuals in the team, to accomplish what you suggest, would most certainly mean that they already have long term stable employment at rates competitive (at least) to what you suggest. I would think that hiring those folks away from a stable situation for a limited engagement would require significant sweetening of the deal.
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You forgot #6(maybe the most important) Where would you run this thing?
DW
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Ellison is the only one even remotely interested.
$50K won't buy anyone good, not even me!
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Say that you agree to pay workers $50,000 per year, pay all their living expenses while working, provide free food and sleeping rooms, and pay their normal bills at home so they don't go broke while working to build/run the car?
That's starting to sound like a backstory for a James Bond film.
I can see the classified ad in Soldier of Fortune, or Hot Rod:
Wanted - Minions. Minimum of a bachelor's degree in rocket science and/or automotive engineering, must be able to rappel from catwalks and have verifiable weapons handling capabilities. Contact Human Resources at either SPECTRE or Penske. Non disclosure agreement required.
Build it on a private island in a dormant volcano, and use the tram to get back and forth from the build room to the dormitories.
:wink:
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The water record is "ONLY 317" & there are many venue options.
Sid.
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I think you would need some pretty talented engineering staff. Several fabricators of better than A&P skills. And other people I have not thought of. So unless they were really interested in the project, and probably even if they are, $50,000 is not going to be to enticing. You would think someone like Larry Elason, who pays for Americas Cup boats, would be into this kind of thing. It would be chump change for him.
RichFox. The wealthy car owner was offering to pay all your living expense while working on the car, pay $50,000 a year as payment and pay all living expenses of that person at home so if they had a home, apartment, shop...those expenses would be paid, so it might be more like $100,000 per year. I know that doesn't change much, but it's something.
The quality and qualifications that would be required of individuals in the team, to accomplish what you suggest, would most certainly mean that they already have long term stable employment at rates competitive (at least) to what you suggest. I would think that hiring those folks away from a stable situation for a limited engagement would require significant sweetening of the deal.
After having worked for some professional teams, I'd like to inject some reality here . . . . . . .
A/ The "talent pool" of engineers who want to be "involved in racing" is huge. No experience, no practical knowledge, and probably unsuited for the high pressure racing environment. In contrast, the talent pool of engineers proven to be successful in racing, is small. Much smaller than the demand for competent, proven talent.
2/ $100K/year, under contract, will not interest anyone I know of to even consider your offer. Really good, talented guys, KNOW that they are good. WHY? They are constantly getting offers from alternate teams to "jump" to a competitors operation. It is why they are "under contract" for "serious money", usually in multi-year deals. The only guys willing to "jump" would be minions, perhaps talented, probably not.
d/ There is no shortage of wealthy team owners, and would be team owners. WHY? There is "no shortage" of money at the "top" of the economy. Most of these wealthy individuals are Type "A" personalities. That's how they got their wealth. They are, as a rule with few exceptions, demanding and ignorant. They demand results, regardless of the circumstances. It makes the likes of them very difficult to work with, or to "work for". Make no mistake about it, they will remind you at every opportunity, YOU work for THEM. This presents a diplomatic challenge to "the talent". Let your imagination run wild. Really successful team owners recognize that their success depends on retaining their "most talented" individuals. These types need motivation to stay put. And if the owner is just a wealthy asshat, the operation becomes a revolving door, where the talented can write their own ticket at a competitors shop, usually just down the road . . . . .
z/ The wealth of talent required to make such a venture potentially possible, staggers my mind. My "NO SH**" estimate would be to total up the talent involved with "Speed Demon" and factor that by a level of magnitude. That is: times 10 . . . . . . Think that is outrageous? Think about it again . . . . . . . .
JMHO . . . .
:dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Realityboy
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You forgot #6(maybe the most important) Where would you run this thing?
DW
Run it the same place where the North American Eagle, Aussie Invader, Thrust SSC (Black Rock Nevada), Bloodhound are going/went.
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The water record is "ONLY 317" & there are many venue options.
Sid.
What percent more power do you need to break a record on water as compared to land?
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"More power" than what baseline?
Too many variables to be considered in a single sentence.
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For example, if 1,000 horsepower will get you 200mph, how fast will 1,000 horsepower get you on the water. Just use averages and avoid the extremes.
"More power" than what baseline?
Too many variables to be considered in a single sentence.
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For example, if 1,000 horsepower will get you 200mph, how fast will 1,000 horsepower get you on the water. Just use averages and avoid the extremes.
I think 160 Hp should get you over 200 MPH on the salt'
John
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How fast would you be going if they dropped you from 10,000 feet into the traps at the five?
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How fast will 160 horsepower get you on the water? Will it get you 200mph on water?
For example, if 1,000 horsepower will get you 200mph, how fast will 1,000 horsepower get you on the water. Just use averages and avoid the extremes.
I think 160 Hp should get you over 200 MPH on the salt'
John
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In the standard free fall skydiver position from 10,000 feet, you will fall at approximately 120mph.
How fast would you be going if they dropped you from 10,000 feet into the traps at the five?
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In the standard free fall skydiver position from 10,000 feet, you will fall at approximately 120mph.
How fast would you be going if they dropped you from 10,000 feet into the traps at the five?
Yea but what if they dropped the 160 horses on top of you :roll:
I guess one vehicle can do 200 on 160 but another may take 1000... same would go for boats... not all have the same streamlining... watch the cup races sometime.....
Do some research and get back to us in a month or two :cheers:
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In the standard free fall skydiver position from 10,000 feet, you will fall at approximately 120mph.
How fast would you be going if they dropped you from 10,000 feet into the traps at the five?
And how fast if you were in a record-breaking streamliner?
:dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
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I`m somewhat attracted to the idea of dropping Franklin from 10K feet.............
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And then drop 160 full grown horses on him. Sorry about that PETA. Would not hurt animals. No animals were hurt in this suggestion. :dhorse: :dhorse:
Ron
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Skiers can ski down a mountain at over 150 mph with no propulsion.
So, terminal velocity means what?
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Velocity/ Smalocity.....let`s get on with the Franklin bashing :cheers:
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Ron, PETA will forgive you, use dead horses, it seems like an ethical use for them :-o
:dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
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My question is, if you were a billionaire and wanted to break the current Land Speed Record of 763mph by Thrust SSC
1. how long would it take you to either buy a car already made, North American Eagle, Aussie Invader, Steve Fossetts Sonic Wind... or a make a custom made car and break the current 763mph record?
2. what would you use for power?
3. what speed could you easily reach?
4. how much do you think it would cost? Say that you agree to pay workers $50,000 per year, pay all their living expenses while working, provide free food and sleeping rooms, and pay their normal bills at home so they don't go broke while working to build/run the car?
5. include anything else you think would be important.
I just watched the SpaceX launch of their heavy rocket and saw the 2 rocket boosters land upright, side by side, which goes to show you that a land speed record should be obtainable compared to that. This 1 minute video shows the boosters as they fire their rockets prior to landing with sonic booms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_kfM-BmVzQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_kfM-BmVzQ)
10 most wealthiest people in the US as an example of who could easily afford it:
Bill Gates of Microsoft 81 Billion
Jeff Bezos of Amazon 67 Billion
Warren Buffet Bershire Hathaway 65 Billion
Mark Zuckerber Facebook 55 Billion
Larry Ellison Oracle 49 Billion
Michael Bloomberg Bloomberg LP 45 Billion
Charles Koch 42 Billion
David Koch 42 Billion
Larry Page Google 38 Billion
Sergey Brin Google 37 Billion
1. About 5-8 years (please note that money would be spent like it's going outta style)
2. A single throttleable hybrid rocket engine that could be replaced by a new one in less than an hour
3. 800 mph
4. Probably more than a billion dollars, but possibly less than two billion dollars. The workers would be much more expensive
than what you described, and it's likely that a much larger team of people would be required, compared to early
guesstimate(s).
5. Many, many test runs, at gradually increased speeds; using the Black Rock Desert, with (many, many) lanes pre-prepared
and 20-25 miles long. This includes using sonar or other suitable method to detect hidden hazards (such as rocks) buried
up to 6 inches below the playa surface. Many, many spare parts, such as engines, parachutes, wheels, etc. Money can be
a wonderful tool if enough is available.
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That car exists - The Blue Flame - in the museum in Sinsheim, Germany
Ray Dausman, Pete Farnsworth, and Dick Keller built that car 52 years ago.
1. 2 years construction and testing
2. 22,000 pounds thrust bi-propellant rocket - HTP and LNG - refueled between runs
3. designed for 825mph peak speed - 815mph kilometer average speed - transonic wind tunnel verified
4. $4million to build in 2023 - $500,000 in 1970
5. pneumatic tires and wheels were tested at Goodyear at 850mph - would be able to run on the salt flats
We had to detune The Blue Flame rocket in 1970 because Goodyear restricted our maximum speed, just for 1970, to 700mph. We hit a peak speed of 660mph mid-mile with a 630mph kilometer record.
The sponsor decided not to pursue the Mach1 goal in 1971 as the risk/reward for them - the American Gas Association - was not good for publicity.
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Here is the 22,000 pound thrust bipropellant residing in The Blue Flame in Germany.
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Here is the 850mph Goodyear tire and Cragar wheel on The Blue Flame in the museum in Germany.
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This view shows how the HTP and LNG bipropellant rocket in The Blue Flame in Germany works.
The liquid HTP provides cooling heat transfer in the rocket housing before decomposing in the catalyst pack.
LNG gaseous injection lights the flame, then the LNG liquid injector acts as sort of an afterburner for full thrust.
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These Solidworks views show more clearly the actual construction details of the 22,000lb thrust liquid bipropellant rocket in The Blue Flame in the German museum.
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My question is, if you were a billionaire and wanted to break the current Land Speed Record of 763mph by Thrust SSC
1. how long would it take you to either buy a car already made, North American Eagle, Aussie Invader, Steve Fossetts Sonic Wind... or a make a custom made car and break the current 763mph record?
2. what would you use for power?
3. what speed could you easily reach?
4. how much do you think it would cost? Say that you agree to pay workers $50,000 per year, pay all their living expenses while working, provide free food and sleeping rooms, and pay their normal bills at home so they don't go broke while working to build/run the car?
5. include anything else you think would be important.
I just watched the SpaceX launch of their heavy rocket and saw the 2 rocket boosters land upright, side by side, which goes to show you that a land speed record should be obtainable compared to that. This 1 minute video shows the boosters as they fire their rockets prior to landing with sonic booms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_kfM-BmVzQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_kfM-BmVzQ)
10 most wealthiest people in the US as an example of who could easily afford it:
Bill Gates of Microsoft 81 Billion
Jeff Bezos of Amazon 67 Billion
Warren Buffet Bershire Hathaway 65 Billion
Mark Zuckerber Facebook 55 Billion
Larry Ellison Oracle 49 Billion
Michael Bloomberg Bloomberg LP 45 Billion
Charles Koch 42 Billion
David Koch 42 Billion
Larry Page Google 38 Billion
Sergey Brin Google 37 Billion
1. About 5-8 years (please note that money would be spent like it's going outta style)
2. A single throttleable hybrid rocket engine that could be replaced by a new one in less than an hour
3. 800 mph
4. Probably more than a billion dollars, but possibly less than two billion dollars. The workers would be much more expensive
than what you described, and it's likely that a much larger team of people would be required, compared to early
guesstimate(s).
5. Many, many test runs, at gradually increased speeds; using the Black Rock Desert, with (many, many) lanes pre-prepared
and 20-25 miles long. This includes using sonar or other suitable method to detect hidden hazards (such as rocks) buried
up to 6 inches below the playa surface. Many, many spare parts, such as engines, parachutes, wheels, etc. Money can be
a wonderful tool if enough is available.
how could you not include the obvious? Elon Musk, builder of the SpaceX? Net worth 148 billion who has lost
more net worth than some on your list.
And is capable of building record setting machines.
JL222
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That car exists - The Blue Flame - in the museum in Sinsheim, Germany
Ray Dausman, Pete Farnsworth, and Dick Keller built that car 52 years ago.
1. 2 years construction and testing
2. 22,000 pounds thrust bi-propellant rocket - HTP and LNG - refueled between runs
3. designed for 825mph peak speed - 815mph kilometer average speed - transonic wind tunnel verified
4. $4million to build in 2023 - $500,000 in 1970
5. pneumatic tires and wheels were tested at Goodyear at 850mph - would be able to run on the salt flats
We had to detune The Blue Flame rocket in 1970 because Goodyear restricted our maximum speed, just for 1970, to 700mph. We hit a peak speed of 660mph mid-mile with a 630mph kilometer record.
The sponsor decided not to pursue the Mach1 goal in 1971 as the risk/reward for them - the American Gas Association - was not good for publicity.
I have often wondered why no one has attempted to build what you might call "Blue Flame II". In particular, why has no one (AFAIK) used a similar rocket design that demonstrably (in 1970) is ample for the job?
Or does Aussie Invader 5R match the "Blue Flame II" description? In which case, why is it taking so long to even get to an initial test run (let alone a record attempt)?
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Quote - Or does Aussie Invader 5R match the "Blue Flame II" description? In which case, why is it taking so long to even get to an initial test run (let alone a record attempt)?
Invest in a copy of the book "Rosco - The Fastest Aussie on Earth" from Amazon and you will understand all about the AI5R vehicle and its team leader.
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[/quote]
how could you not include the obvious? Elon Musk, builder of the SpaceX? Net worth 148 billion who has lost
more net worth than some on your list.
And is capable of building record setting machines.
JL222
[/quote]
I don't think that Elon Musk has the attention span or the interest in this kind of thing. It would be nice to see him toss his
hat into that ring, though. In fact, I'd like to see any billionaire do this.
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Elon musk, with short attention span? Now I know why you excluded him, spoken by a true liberal.
JL222
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I have often wondered why no one has attempted to build what you might call "Blue Flame II". In particular, why has no one (AFAIK) used a similar rocket design that demonstrably (in 1970) is ample for the job?
In a 2014 Motor Trend interview (https://www.motortrend.com/news/craig-breedlove-americas-600-mph-man/ (https://www.motortrend.com/news/craig-breedlove-americas-600-mph-man/)) Breedlove describes what happened to his plans to build a rocket-powered LSR car. It isn't completely clear what propellants he was thinking of using but describes a sudden inability to source hydrazine, HTP, and nitrogen tetroxide from industry. This motivated a switch back to jet power.
Rocketry and ICBM fans will recognize hydrazine (UDMH) and N2O4 as Titan II propellants. :-)
Further I recall McGlashan found he could not source HTP anywhere in Australia and so now plans to use turpentine as fuel and white fuming nitric acid as oxidizer.
Tim
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TrickyDicky ? ?why is it taking so long to get a test run??
YOU DON?T NEED A BILLIONAIRE ? just a plan.
On the back cover of SPEEDQUEST-Inside The Blue Flame I stated: In the early 1960s, land speed racers bought surplus aircraft turbojet engines ? and found out how fast they could go.
In 1965, three guys from Milwaukee decided how fast they wanted to go (Mach 1)! Then they decided to build their own rocket engine to go that fast. Progressively, they built and tested 25, 2500, and 22,000 pound thrust rockets. Then built the car and set the LSR.
Plan ahead and (KISS) keep it simple stupid!
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Tallguy ? item number 5
800 mph expenses?
?Many, many test runs? e.g., using the Black Rock Desert, with many, many lanes prepared? this includes using sonar? to detect hidden hazards buried up to 6 inches below the playa surface.?
Again, pneumatic tires/wheels do not carve ruts in the surface for steering stability. Gooodyear built and tested the tires and our wheels at 850mph. CRAGAR built the wheels to our design.
We made more than 24 runs on the 10 mile long and 120 feet wide Bonneville International course with no damage to the 2 lanes. The friction coefficient of rubber on the salt provided excellent yaw control.
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The Blue Flame?s steering was a 4-bar link controlling the paired 2 front wheels. 90-degree steering wheel rotation produced plus or minus one-degree wheel angular movement. This provided a quarter mile turning radius. Coil over shocks provided the front suspension.
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Using The Blue Flame rocket motor for propulsion provided a 36-inch wide low frontal area streamlined chassis design, minimizing aerodynamic drag.
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Tallguy ? item number 5
800 mph expenses?
?Many, many test runs? e.g., using the Black Rock Desert, with many, many lanes prepared? this includes using sonar? to detect hidden hazards buried up to 6 inches below the playa surface.?
Again, pneumatic tires/wheels do not carve ruts in the surface for steering stability. Gooodyear built and tested the tires and our wheels at 850mph. CRAGAR built the wheels to our design.
We made more than 24 runs on the 10 mile long and 120 feet wide Bonneville International course with no damage to the 2 lanes. The friction coefficient of rubber on the salt provided excellent yaw control.
MAYOMAN, Thank you for all your informative and well-illustrated postings here. I never argue with successful results.
It's some unfortunate incidents (such as lack of effective parachute deployment) that have influenced my thinking -- i.e.,
length of a suitable track to run on. Bonneville is too short to offer such a margin of safety, in my opinion.
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I agree that STOPPING safely is more important than going fast. Working with Jim Deist, we used a multi-parachute system stopping from nearly 700mph. A small high speed parachute was deployed first, then a larger low speed parachute was deployed at 300mph, finally wheel brakes of course. We had 2 complete redundant parachute systems, just in case of a failure. Following our 13th run, the first with LNG, and the first over 500mph, exhaust flame behind the car damaged the parachute system and with no parachutes Gary drove off the end of the salt at mile 13 into the mud which stopped The Blue Flame. 13th run stopped past mile 13 - BEWITCHED. Other than a car wash all was okay. We then installed a heat shield over the parachutes containers and had no further episodes. That mud surface was like a safety net, thank God.
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I agree that STOPPING safely is more important than going fast. Working with Jim Deist, we used a multi-parachute system stopping from nearly 700mph. A small high speed parachute was deployed first, then a larger low speed parachute was deployed at 300mph, finally wheel brakes of course. We had 2 complete redundant parachute systems, just in case of a failure. Following our 13th run, the first with LNG, and the first over 500mph, exhaust flame behind the car damaged the parachute system and with no parachutes Gary drove off the end of the salt at mile 13 into the mud which stopped The Blue Flame. 13th run stopped past mile 13 - BEWITCHED. Other than a car wash all was okay. We then installed a heat shield over the parachutes containers and had no further episodes. That mud surface was like a safety net, thank God.
Based on what I read, during Jessi Combs' final/fatal high-speed run, no parachute was deployed. She could have used a
long mud surface to help slow down more safely . . . in my opinion.
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A longer course is always a good thing. But the reports from ABC News and others claim a vehicle failure caused the crash.
Jessica Combs died on August 27, 2019, after crashing a jet-powered car while setting a land speed record as part of the North American Eagle Project on a dry lake bed in the Alvord Desert, Oregon. The crash was caused by a failure of a front wheel, likely caused by hitting an object in the desert, which caused the front wheel assembly to collapse at a speed nearing 523 mph (842 km/h). The official cause of death was determined to be blunt-force trauma to the head occurring prior to the fire that engulfed the race vehicle after the crash.
Again, not using pneumatic tires, the NAE used solid metal wheels which dig a trench in the surface for steering control. Apparently, an unseen solid object triggered the wheel collapse. As I said, the Goodyear pneumatic tires on our wheels were tested at 850mph in 1970. 53 years later, I am certain pneumatic tires could do the job safely.
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I had heard that she was doing a test run when the crash happened. I also heard that the NAE never officially ran for the record. Don't want to hear any bullshit about a woman's speed record because there is no such thing. She only went faster then kitty o'neal. Not a record.
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My wallet is pretty far down in my pants but it is not very fat :police:
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The whole episode seems rather sketchy. What record? FIA only certifies flying start records for the mile and kilometer. Standing start records are totally different. FIM has some other, ambiguous records, but the NAE looks to have 6 wheels. And, of course, there was no backup run. Guiness records are even more sketchy. It is tragic that Jessi perished trying for some record that doesn't really exist.
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It could be argued that every death is a tragedy. But it's also an end of a life, and applies to everyone who has ever lived.
Some deaths' timing should have been later than they were (just a value judgement, in my opinion). I still don't know many
details about the crash, which of course should have been preventable. On the other hand, if one insists on playing with fire,
it's likely that one will eventually get burned.
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A longer course is always a good thing. But the reports from ABC News and others claim a vehicle failure caused the crash.
Jessica Combs died on August 27, 2019, after crashing a jet-powered car while setting a land speed record as part of the North American Eagle Project on a dry lake bed in the Alvord Desert, Oregon. The crash was caused by a failure of a front wheel, likely caused by hitting an object in the desert, which caused the front wheel assembly to collapse at a speed nearing 523 mph (842 km/h). The official cause of death was determined to be blunt-force trauma to the head occurring prior to the fire that engulfed the race vehicle after the crash.
Again, not using pneumatic tires, the NAE used solid metal wheels which dig a trench in the surface for steering control. Apparently, an unseen solid object triggered the wheel collapse. As I said, the Goodyear pneumatic tires on our wheels were tested at 850mph in 1970. 53 years later, I am certain pneumatic tires could do the job safely.
What "land speed record" was this? Something kinda arbitrary, such as "by a blonde, weighing less than 150 pounds"?
The generally-recognized organizations that organize and "put on" these land speed racing competitions don't worry about
sex/gender. So there's no "official" record that specifies the driver's sex, gender, gender identification, or fantasy (past,
present, or future) about what gender they self-identify as/with.
Jessi wasn't trying to set any generally-recognizable land speed record on the day she crashed. Based on some past
runs she made (including driving way off the laid-out -- and fodded -- course), she may have been on a path that took
her onto some rocks that she shouldn't have been on. Yes, of course, I know that hindsight is 20-20. And I am very
sad that she died. But when people are driving upwards of 400 mph, all safety systems and procedures should be very
rigidly adhered to. I am not going into a lot of detail right now. Perhaps the "failure of the front wheel" would not have
occurred if the team (broadly speaking) had been more careful in preparing for this run.
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There were more wrongs in the NAE program than rights but the video of the crash shines more light on the situation than "the front wheel failed". It showed a left turn,... in the boonies,... at high speed,... & appeared to still have all 5 wheels intact so she had obviously run out of clean real estate causing the crash. A miscalculation or over zealous driver, we'll never know the truth. Then the Guinness Book of Stupid Records grabs a hand full of it for profit!!
Sid.
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There were more wrongs in the NAE program than rights but the video of the crash shines more light on the situation than "the front wheel failed". It showed a left turn,... in the boonies,... at high speed,... & appeared to still have all 5 wheels intact so she had obviously run out of clean real estate causing the crash. A miscalculation or over zealous driver, we'll never know the truth. Then the Guinness Book of Stupid Records grabs a hand full of it for profit!!
Sid.
Sid, where is this "video of the crash"? I'd like to watch the video (for the sake of information). I saw a video apparently
taken from a vehicle that followed Jessi's path (well after the day she crashed). But I don't remember seeing any tracks
that indicated a high speed left turn.
I'm still "in the dark" about parachute deployment, also.
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As far as land speed records not being gender specific, does that include Lee Breedlove and Kitty O'Neal?
All of this Jessi Combs negativity is becoming a bit repulsive.
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Kitty O'Neill is the category C 1/2km SS record holder, set in07/07/1977.
She broke the category C 1/2km SS record formerly held by Vern Anderson, set in 19/08/1974.
That is NOT a women's record. It is THE record. Oh, and she happens to be a woman.
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Dick, Thank you for that information.
When researching Kitty O'Neil all I found from multiple sources was that she was contracted to break the woman's world speed record.
What class did Lee Breedlove run in and who's record did she break?
Thanks, Don
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Again, FIA does not have a women's record category.
My recollection was that Craig was trying to keep the Bonneville International course tied up in order to keep Art Arfons from breaking his record again. Waiting for the season-ending weather he had Lee run the car for possible Guinness records, which are not recognized as world records by FIA. There may have been USAC or AAA national records, also.
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Woman Record, did Kitty set records, Jessie Combs....the whole story is a little bit complex....
Dick wrote about Lee Breedlove...
actually, the whole woman record pain starts in 1964, Lee Breedlove run in 1965...
during the 1964 season Firestone and Goodyear had booked the salt for mostly a week to set records...
here, in 1964, Art Arfons, Walt Arfons (Tom Green) and Craig Breedlove...
the contract was that way....when they had set the record and they didn't use the salt for more runs, the salt was open for the next competitor, albeit the time of the contract wasn't over...
so the teams from Walt and Art had there quartermiler jet cars also at the salt and sat some well known female racer into the jet cars and they drove a woman record, which was a idea of the advertisment departments of Goodyear and Firestone....great advertisment....also women can run fast with our rubber.... :cheers:
with this trick they took care that the competitors couldn't use the salt...
in 1965 it was than Craig Breedlove who used that trick....the only different....this time, his wife Lee, used the same jet car as he has used for his record...the Spirit of America Sonic 1...
this car finally was the first over 600 mph, Lee drove something over 300 mph....
and again the same B S...advertisment...also women....can....blabla....
from there on it was a while before the next fast woman showed up....
big different, she was really fast.....Kitty O'Neil....
there was a young guy named Billy Meyer....his father was the owner of SMI Motovation...
he had the idea to use a rocket car to became the fastest......name Aquaslide n Dive Special....another company of his dad....Bill Frederick got the order to build that car...when the car was nearly finish, Billy Boy had lost the interest...or better, he found out, that's a number to big...
so...there was a car and no driver....
and there was a stuntman with some money....Hal Needham.....he jumped in...and to get more sponsor money....they looked for a woman....
Kitty O'Neil was a well known and very popular stunt woman...and fast....and she brought some money, too
the car was called meanwhile SMI Motivator....
at first they tried the car at Bonneville which didn't work well out...
the team moved to Alvord Lake in Oregon....
but the SMI couldn't compete against the Blue Flame, who hold the record since 1970...now we had 1976....
as this car had only three wheels...it runs under FIM, like 1963, Craig Breedlove first Spirit of America as a tricyle with thrust power....SoA with jet....SMI with rocket....
so it was actually an open record.....
Why the official paper from Earl Flanders said....woman record flying kilometer....to today there is no information, why FIM used woman record....
well, the contract between Frederick/Needham and Kitty O'Neil, to Needham's opinion, just allowed her to run for a woman record.....
at first, Kitty set this 512 mph record, which could be certified as a new record, as it was an open record.....the next day, she was even faster and very close to the Blue Flame record...
when she was ready for the return run...a lawer of Needham showed up and done her out of the car....no new record...
the paper of the 512 mph record was signed by Earl Flanders, that everything was correct under the rules of the FIM....it was never certified as Frederick/Needham never paid the FIM.....and so it never found his way into the FIM record book
in 1977 Needham tried to run the SMI at Tonopah Dry Lake.....he never came close to the speed which Kitty reached and finally he crashed the SMI....
Meanwhile, Kitty had set official records for the FIA record book....not over the flying mile, but standing speed records....with the big support of Ky Michaelson.....some of her records are still
stand....
and she run the original Hustler, now called Captain Crazy, of Lee Taylor...Taylor had the water speed record from 1967 to 1977 with the Hustler....to today, Kitty is the 4th fastest person on water.
well, and now here is Jessi Combs....
Ed Shadle's idea was always to get more publicity and sponsors for the NAE project let a woman running the NAE, too....
there were several women before Jessi sat in the NAE...but not one of the other women every drove...some of them where unfortunately killed by a other motorsport/flight activity....or stepped back from the idea....
the NAE was a jet car, using a F104 Starfighter as base, with five wheels....Ed tried to run him with three wheels, but this didn't worked out....if he had the idea to break Craig Breedlove SoA three wheeler record....don't know how that could be possible as this record was frozen since 1979....
anyway....the NAE and the SMI was two different organisation...SMI was FIM and NAE was FIA....
so, when Jessi starts she was actually only going for the fastest speed set by a woman....not to beat Kitty's Alvord record....which was only "certified" by the beer brewer book....
and Jessi had to go against the 512 mph two way speed....the speed which Kitty run a day later was official never shown.....
Jessi run in 2019 two way....with a 4 hour turnaround time.....I have no idea what the beer brewer got in thier rule book....but it wasn't FIA....and the NAE didn't match anymore to the
FIA safety requirements after January 2016.....
normally when Jessi run, the time trap was over the mile....Kitty, was over the kilo....the beer brewer came up with a kilo speed....wherever they got that timing....
the outcome of this woman record is well known....with a very sad end for Jessi...
what really happend or caused the incident, official we will never hear, as the the police found a reason, so that all involved parties could walk away without getting in trouble..... :dhorse:
Summary
Kitty O'Neil could be official in the FIM record book if there would have not been a male which hate to be beaten by a woman......as here the 512 mph was on an open record.....
and for Jessi....as there is no male/female record....in 2019 jet and rocket was faster than 600 mph.....tough to reach for the NAE......
so it was nothing more than a not existing woman.......B S.....or the idea from an advertisment guy.....
Dick, Thank you for that information.
When researching Kitty O'Neil all I found from multiple sources was that she was contracted to break the woman's world speed record.
What class did Lee Breedlove run in and who's record did she break?
Thanks, Don
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Thomas, Thank you, that was very imformative and as far as I'm concerned puts this to bed. :deal
Don
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For example, if 1,000 horsepower will get you 200mph, how fast will 1,000 horsepower get you on the water. Just use averages and avoid the extremes.
I think 160 Hp should get you over 200 MPH on the salt'
John
. . . On a very narrow bike.