Landracing Forum
El Mirage => El Mirage General Chat => Topic started by: 27D/MFR on August 15, 2017, 08:18:35 AM
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I will be in LA on during the week leading up to the meet and am trying to figure out if I can/should attend. How long does the racing last during the days on Saturday and Sunday? I'm assuming it's like b'ville where it starts at sun up and goes until 7 or 8ish. Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this. Also, if there are any shops I should visit during my visit, Please let me know.
Thanks,
Dan
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Maybe more like 1 or 2ishfor the end. Wind comes up. Course gets dug up. Racing ends early.
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They run for 8 hours or they have to pay the BLM overtime, Normal start time is 7:30ish. They run tell 8 hours is up or the wind gets to bad.
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Thanks guys for the replies. I think I'll try and make it.
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If it's a Bonneville or eastern pavement car you will find out about El Mirage dust in about 200 yds. You will have a start number that will be at the end of the first day if all goes well. If not early on day #2. closest motels are about 20-25 miles away. Bring your own fuel. Sleeping on the lake bed is OK but cold in Novemder. With that said come out and have a good time....
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...and if I'm reading this right, it's a 'Fee Free Day':
https://www.blm.gov/programs/recreation/permits-and-fees
-Glen 966B
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Looks like it.
Note – This weekend's October meet is not listed.
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Does anyone sell SCTA legal "gas" at El Mirage?
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Yes. Mike Cook has some. We just bought some MULC from him this weekend. He may have other stuff - you'll have to call him to find out. FWIW, most of the standard VP gasses pass tech fine. What do you normally run?
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VP 105 octane leaded (C111 I think). I'm flying in from out of town for the November event, and don't have much time in the schedule to find race gas enroute. I have to pass through Ontario to get to ElMo, as that is where I stash my race trailer. If I could get it enroute, great, but heading down to Signal Hill (last place I bought gas) is not in the cards.
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Merit Oil in Bloomington (1/2 mile north of I-10) is not far out of the way if you take I-10 to San Bernardino, then up I-215 to Cajon pass to Hwy. 138. Probably a 10-minute detour. We get our reasonably-priced leaded 110 Sunoco there.
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If you're tuned for a particular gas I definitely wouldn't change it on a whim just because you're not sure where to get it. There are a ton of VP dealers in SoCal. If you're flying into LAX or Ontario or OC, you could throw a rock and hit a shop that sells VP. Get on Google. Make some calls. You'll find some.
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If you're tuned for a particular gas I definitely wouldn't change it on a whim just because you're not sure where to get it. There are a ton of VP dealers in SoCal. If you're flying into LAX or Ontario or OC, you could throw a rock and hit a shop that sells VP. Get on Google. Make some calls. You'll find some.
you are right, I'll bite the bullet and pick up some C11 on the way to tech inspection on Friday the 10th
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first predictions, tailwinds on saturday and sunday... :-)
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line up positions posted: http://nebula.wsimg.com/bf9876478cfc995481c217f7028652d5?AccessKeyId=1B489604A3781742F233
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I was one of several who did course prep on Saturday. Course looks great, and a nice tail wind came up around 10:00.
John
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Course looks great per 2017 standards or per normal standards when the courses aren't horrible? We've decided to park our car. Not worth the money or time or using up motor life to not go fast. Holding out for better courses next year. Going to enjoy some dirty 2 club bbq though! :-D
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I’ll be going, for sure. Tailwinds, and seat time. Never a bad combo. If you don’t play, you can’t win.
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...and with two days of racing, many passes. Lots of opportunity for data collection and learning.
Keep that C11 capped while stored for the winter and it'll be fine. No waste there.
Good Luck.
-Glen SCTA 966B
...hopefully back in lanes next May.
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Free fees weekend don't you know!! No fees due to get on the lake bed Saturday or Sunday!
Check it out....https://www.blm.gov/policy/ib-2017-010
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Free fees weekend don't you know!! No fees due to get on the lake bed Saturday or Sunday!
Check it out....https://www.blm.gov/policy/ib-2017-010
Weasel words in their notice:
For the BLM, the requirement to observe “fee-free” days means the waiver of standard amenity fees and individual day-use fees (such as visitor centers and within National Conservation Lands units) only. Expanded amenity fees and other fees, i.e. those for group day use, overnight camping, cabin rentals and use of special areas, will remain in effect, unless the field office manager deems it appropriate to waive them.
I wouldn't be surprised it it doesn't cover us. I have a senior free pass to all NPs and BLM parks, but it doesn't work at El Mirage which is a "special" place...
Plus, Friday is not free... 8^((
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I emailed the BLM, they said that's a local decision. I called ElMo, and they knew nothing of it, but said they are having a meeting later today and will bring up the subject. I'll call back later...
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I emailed the BLM, they said that's a local decision. I called ElMo, and they knew nothing of it, but said they are having a meeting later today and will bring up the subject. I'll call back later...
Thanx for following up! :cheers:
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I've spoken with the BLM guy ( head of recreation ) up in Sacramento and he confirmed it is a "free fee" weekend ( 11/11 & 11/12 ). One thing he did suggest was making a copy of the letter from the link I posted earlier and presenting it to the entrance if they give you any static.
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Man, maybe I need to get a sub-100hp bike to race. Doesn't matter what the course is like - you can just run 'em.
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More like just push em Nathan
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Man, maybe I need to get a sub-100hp bike to race. Doesn't matter what the course is like - you can just run 'em.
I have a Busa you can run 8-)
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Hey Rick, did ya burn holes in 2 pistons to get your Busa under 100HP :roll:
Maybe the SCTA will let Veterans run first on the 11th... oldest to youngest...
Everybody be safe this weekend :cheers:
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Turbo Rick, fastest gas speed ever on the dirt. Bob Dalton fastest speed of the meet and fastest of this year out of the rookie line. 283 mph. I would say it was a fair course
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so much for having to lisc. up at El M just like B'ville :-D
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283 out of the rookie line? I don't think anybody explained the process to Bob as well as they should have.
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Well it should be 2 line qualified if he got the timing slip :-)
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This do?
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I'm not so sure the course was that good for some of us.
Saturday -- 184 @ 6400 RPM
Sunday -- 183 @ 7100 RPM
Something slippery there. The Sunday run should have been in the 90s.
Same basic set-up for 15 years including when it went 194 last year.
Add more weight? Then you gotta accelerate it, too. Be a bigger problem if we didn't already have the record.
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. . . maybe it's the new windshield?
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That should help Stan.... with the right tail wind... :cheers:
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Or crank it up for some down force? :? :-o :-D
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. . . maybe it's the new windshield?
I see the problem theres no windsheild wiper :evil:
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That is a question I have.Plan a running the May meet,hold an A license now but will be a first timer on the lake bed.So do I need to make license passes in the same car I have been driving since the mid 2000,s?If so,what license do we start at?Or can I hammer down from the rookie line :cheers:
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Depends on you and the Race director---they seem to do it all kinds of ways---there are no rookie cars---they are moving toward a B'ville type procedure but have not put it in writing or a seperate lisc. YET
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Bob Dalton ran out of the rookie line this weekend. He has an AA license and has run his car close to 400 on the salt. He was allowed to make his first pass at a speed under 200. He went 183. Good chute. Good turnout. So everyone was happy. You will need to inquire when you get there.
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Bob Dalton ran out of the rookie line this weekend. He has an AA license and has run his car close to 400 on the salt. He was allowed to make his first pass at a speed under 200. He went 183. Good chute. Good turnout. So everyone was happy. You will need to inquire when you get there.
Video didn't seem rpms were high enough for 283, mistake on timing tag :?
Same think For Arley Langlo under 200 out of rookie line.
JL222
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Bob had the Bonneville gears in it. Was geared for 400. Car went 283.
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Bob Dalton ran out of the rookie line this weekend. He has an AA license and has run his car close to 400 on the salt. He was allowed to make his first pass at a speed under 200. He went 183. Good chute. Good turnout. So everyone was happy. You will need to inquire when you get there.
You confused me with '' HE went 183''
JL222
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Bob Dalton ran out of the rookie line this weekend. He has an AA license and has run his car close to 400 on the salt. He was allowed to make his first pass at a speed under 200. He went 183. Good chute. Good turnout. So everyone was happy. You will need to inquire when you get there.
That sounds fair,I hope we can do the same,thanks for the info
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They went 183 on Saturday on Bob's first pass. On Sunday Bob and Don decided to put in the Bonneville gears to attempt to reduce the tire spin. Seemed to work. He went 283 on Sunday.
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decided to put in the Bonneville gears to attempt to reduce the tire spin.
But I thought the course was good?
Guys, you have to understand how the rookie program works. Everyone regardless of their previous experience or SCTA license level MUST make a rookie run if you've never driven at El Mirage before. 99% of the time, the rookie run will be limited to 150 mph. In rare and extreme cases, like when a 400 mph car shows up, you'll see the min speed bumped up. Unless you show up with a car that seriously struggles with going that slow, you can expect to make a sub-150 pass your first time out, just like everyone else has had to do. El Mirage is nothing like Bonneville and if you think you're just going to go out there and go for it the first time down the track, you're sorely mistaken.
In most cases, a new driver must license up. SCTA licenses apply to both El Mirage and Bonnevile so if you already have an SCTA license, you can then run to your license level after successfully completing a good rookie run. When I did the rookie program, I'd let people "graduate" out of rookie status early if they were running close to their records. In the few years I did it, none I graduated early actually ever set their record - it's not as easy as one would like to think. Either way, this is at the discretion of the rookie coordinator and race director and is handled on a case by case basis.
But like I said before, except for being flat and not paved, there's very little in common between El Mirage and Bonneville. Two very different track surfaces. You've got all the time in the world to slow down after a run at Bonneville. That is certainly not the case at El Mirage. I was on the far end of the track when Bob went 283 and he used up every last foot of the shut down area getting the car stopped. The last thing you want is to be Mr Hot Shoe and do something stupid like blow out the back door otherwise that'll likely be your last pass at El Mirage.
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I'm not so sure the course was that good for some of us.
Saturday -- 184 @ 6400 RPM
Sunday -- 183 @ 7100 RPM
Something slippery there. The Sunday run should have been in the 90s.
Same basic set-up for 15 years including when it went 194 last year.
Add more weight? Then you gotta accelerate it, too. Be a bigger problem if we didn't already have the record.
Yep, it's super mushy in the middle. Decent in the beginning, pretty good at the end and total mush in the middle. We did some round-a-bout math knowing our hp, current weight, wheel slip and best achieved speeds and figured that the track CF is only 66% of what it was last year. We're just under 4000lbs now and calc'd that we'd have to be up at 5200lbs in order to get the traction we had last year. No physical way to make the car that heavy plus that much weight would seriously slow us down.
Last year went 216 on a 217 record. Same power this year plus 250lbs of added weight netted a best speed of only 208. I didn't have a single pass this year where I didn't have lift off the throttle at least once to keep the car going straight. After adding wheel speed sensors I can see now that the car will tolerate 10mph of sustained wheel slip and still go straight. Above that and the back end starts to come around. Hopefully next year is better.
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decided to put in the Bonneville gears to attempt to reduce the tire spin.
But I thought the course was good?
Guys, you have to understand how the rookie program works. Everyone regardless of their previous experience or SCTA license level MUST make a rookie run if you've never driven at El Mirage before. 99% of the time, the rookie run will be limited to 150 mph. In rare and extreme cases, like when a 400 mph car shows up, you'll see the min speed bumped up. Unless you show up with a car that seriously struggles with going that slow, you can expect to make a sub-150 pass your first time out, just like everyone else has had to do. El Mirage is nothing like Bonneville and if you think you're just going to go out there and go for it the first time down the track, you're sorely mistaken.
In most cases, a new driver must license up. SCTA licenses apply to both El Mirage and Bonnevile so if you already have an SCTA license, you can then run to your license level after successfully completing a good rookie run. When I did the rookie program, I'd let people "graduate" out of rookie status early if they were running close to their records. In the few years I did it, none I graduated early actually ever set their record - it's not as easy as one would like to think. Either way, this is at the discretion of the rookie coordinator and race director and is handled on a case by case basis.
But like I said before, except for being flat and not paved, there's very little in common between El Mirage and Bonneville. Two very different track surfaces. You've got all the time in the world to slow down after a run at Bonneville. That is certainly not the case at El Mirage. I was on the far end of the track when Bob went 283 and he used up every last foot of the shut down area getting the car stopped. The last thing you want is to be Mr Hot Shoe and do something stupid like blow out the back door otherwise that'll likely be your last pass at El Mirage.
Understood :-) see ya in May
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I was on the far end of the track when Bob went 283 and he used up every last foot of the shut down area getting the car stopped. The last thing you want is to be Mr Hot Shoe and do something stupid like blow out the back door otherwise that'll likely be your last pass at El Mirage.
[/quote]The comment I heard over the radio was "Beautiful Chute" And your dad complemented Bob's shut down within the cones.
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My favorite "400 MPH Car".
Top time of the year. Great to see success with that beautiful car. So I look in the Rule Book, not remembering whether it was a Streamliner or Lakester -- doesn't matter -- no record.
Sure could easily do it next time from what we saw at the far end. Hope they give "us" another try next year.
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We will have Flashpoint on the dirt in May.
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Yea :cheers:
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Anyone know what happened to the guy who put his bike down in the first run Saturday morning? Hope all is well with him.
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Anyone know what happened to the guy who put his bike down in the first run Saturday morning? Hope all is well with him.
Scroll down to the health and welfare forum.
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Look for "John Noonan"
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Apparently the SCTA board has decided that Bob Dalton's 283 mph run on Sunday, didn't happen. So now Rick has Top Speed of the Meet. Well it wasn't a record and Bob isn't running for points in 2017. So it's not all that bad. Everybody knows who really went fastest.
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I read about this and I guess if I have nothing nice to say about SCTA, I shouldn't say anything. Congratulations to Bob Dalton and the Flashpoint team!!! This is a great accomplishment.
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This is just something that happened. No one wanted it to happen and no one benefits from it. It makes Top Speed of the Season meaningless to Rick and Bob. But life goes on.
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Apparently the SCTA board has decided that Bob Dalton's 283 mph run on Sunday, didn't happen. So now Rick has Top Speed of the Meet. Well it wasn't a record and Bob isn't running for points in 2017. So it's not all that bad. Everybody knows who really went fastest.
The SCTA will release an official statement on monday
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NOVEMBER MEET TOP TIME CLARIFICATION
To All,
At our November Meet, we had some confusion concerning the Top Time of the Meet & in this case Top Time of the Year.
Car #7800 put down an amazing run of 283+ MPH!
Unfortunately they were running as a Rookie & had been given a speed limit of 250 MPH. As is the case with all Rookies who exceed the given limit the run does not count. The run was a thing of beauty, but as they say........RULES ARE RULES.
Shortly after that run, car #788 put down a sizzling run of it’s own at 274+ MPH! Both vehicles displayed PERFECT shutdown & turn out ability. Thank you both for that!
So with all that being said we will be awarding car #788 Top Time of the Meet & Top Time of the Year. Congrats!!
To car #7800, thank you for your understanding & we look forward to more blistering runs in 2018!
To both drivers, Mr. Rick Yacucci & Mr. Bob Dalton & also Mr. Pete Belich ,who is our Rookie Orientation Coordinator, I extend my sincerest apologies for any confusion in this matter.
I hope we can make this a happy ending to a very trying year!
Thank you for your time..................................................Pat
MOVIN’ ON!......................................
Pat McDowell
SCTA President / Race Director
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Rookie rules are in place to get the driver accustomed to the track for safety, and to help prevent a BLM response to driver error.
While on that note, in regards to driving outside the SCTA track boundaries. I think more or bigger cones, or some improved means to define the track would be more effective than more rules that punish mistakes.
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I can see the Headlines !!!!!!!!
:-D HIGH DESERT- HIGH SPEEDS - LED TO HIGH DRAMA :-o
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Rookie rules are in place to get the driver accustomed to the track for safety
I couldn't agree more. I'm a little bummed to hear that Bob blew his speed limit by 30+ miles an hour. It was an awesome pass to witness but rules are rules.
While on that note, in regards to driving outside the SCTA track boundaries. I think more or bigger cones, or some improved means to define the track would be more effective than more rules that punish mistakes.
The penalties are there to back a serious policy that's a response to a serious problem. I don't think the problem has ever been visibility of the course or the boundaries. I honestly can't even begin to wrap my head around understanding how people either A) miss the finish line or B) think they're at Bonneville and are running in a timed mile and the finish line is the start of that mile. Regardless of either of those situations, there's probably nothing more dangerous out on the lakebed then someone running off the end of the course at a high rate of speed or worse yet, still under power. Unfortunately there isn't a simple metric for deciding "how bad" someone went out of bounds so if you went out, you went out. Doesn't matter if it's a foot or a mile at 2 mph or 200 mph. Out is out.
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Actually, there was leeway given to me by the person overseeing me.. the 250 or so... BUT mainly say in bounds... I used two chutes.. coasted to the far left barrier, about 100 ft away and about 200 - 300 ft from the end.. I could have stopped much sooner.. but wanted to be out of the way of any cars that may come by.. when I asked the official what was next.. I was told go to the banquet and get a trophy.. At NO TIME after that run was I approached by any Official or the "Rookie Coordinator" to tell me I did wrong.. I have an Unlimited license.. I thought the deal was to see if I could keep in bounds .. as they had many who could not... and that was the "most empathized" part of the conversation... "The BLM lady is right there.. watching"
If an Official would have said I was wrong.. there was time to run again, Now I have to run under 250 again... although I was told by a High, Highest, Official I wouldn't have to.. Only took 2 days for him to change his mind on that..
The Rookie Coordinator never once came to see me... I believe he was busy with Rick's car... and they did get a record... good for them... and days later they visited the board to talk about my run...
and the rest is history..
Nathan ... you remember my re- license at Bonneville... You and Lee were fair.. and I ran 333, after the under 200 run.
I've never had any trouble driving ever...
27 years with a red hat.
This kind of reminds me of a situation where they don't have many volunteers, so they don't want to upset the ones they have... even if THEY aren't doing their jobs well.. Seems if one official was good with my performance, and the rookie coordinator didn't bother to chat with me, then.... it should be a non issue... The fact that he worked on the car that benefitted, then he should have recused himself, to save his integrity.
And let what the official who was over seeing me, make the decision.
So I'll catch more crap ... but that's what happened... from my little nitro filled world..
Catch me in May .. or at the Banquet ... bust my butt.. tell me I'm wrong.. whatever..
Bob Dalton
283 in bounds
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Rookie rules are in place to get the driver accustomed to the track for safety
I couldn't agree more. I'm a little bummed to hear that Bob blew his speed limit by 30+ miles an hour. It was an awesome pass to witness but rules are rules.
While on that note, in regards to driving outside the SCTA track boundaries. I think more or bigger cones, or some improved means to define the track would be more effective than more rules that punish mistakes.
The penalties are there to back a serious policy that's a response to a serious problem. I don't think the problem has ever been visibility of the course or the boundaries. I honestly can't even begin to wrap my head around understanding how people either A) miss the finish line or B) think they're at Bonneville and are running in a timed mile and the finish line is the start of that mile. Regardless of either of those situations, there's probably nothing more dangerous out on the lakebed then someone running off the end of the course at a high rate of speed or worse yet, still under power. Unfortunately there isn't a simple metric for deciding "how bad" someone went out of bounds so if you went out, you went out. Doesn't matter if it's a foot or a mile at 2 mph or 200 mph. Out is out.
Punishment happens after the deed is done. More visible track markers would help us AMATEUR drivers negotiate the track,and help us stay within bounds.
If compromises are made like in Daltons case, it should be made by an official group not one person.
Thanks
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Jack Costella
"Records are set by effort, not by the stroke of a pen!"
Even top times... :cheers:
Lol
Bob
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MY drivers lisc idea came up after a similiar situtation with my car. lots of drama and issues could be resolved by the signatures sigining off on each lis. and the race director final sig as being lis up that that level. Then you can run on a record at that location.---
:dhorse: NOT OUT OF THE ROOKIE LINE.
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7800ebs -- PM sent.