Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => 2017 and before: SW & WF => SpeedWeek 2017 => Topic started by: Seldom Seen Slim on August 08, 2017, 08:15:24 PM
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Okay, folks, here's the first post in the thread that'll be for the SpeedWeek event itself - not just the runup. I'll set it sticky so it shows up at the top, and this will help non-Forum folks to find the good stuff about this year's event - with least hassle, I hope.
First comments: Did you know that "front row seating" in the pits is/was sold this year? I found out when we showed up and discovered that the first half mile or so of the pits is reserved. How'd I miss that?
Second: We went to Smith's and who should get out of his car but Marcello Escobedo? He wanted to make sure we knew - and told all of you - that the restaurant has moved. Ya gotta love it when a guy knows his customers well enough to greet 'em - and is a good enough businessman to always ask for the customers' business. We're going there tonight.
Enough for now other than to say -- We're HERE!!!
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Hey Slim, the front row is always reserved, the unwashed are relegated to the hither lands.... did you tell them you were the potty potentate.... maybe the reserved a spot for you and the broadcast booth
:cheers:
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Unh, no - we've parked on the front row (a perk of getting here a few days early to work) and never were told that it was a pay-thing. Oh, well -- the announce trailer does have an even better view. But It's also got Bret Kepner, so it's not perfect. . . :evil:
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It's a little after 8PM here in Wendover and it's raining like hell outside right now at the Quality Inn here in town. It's a quiet rain - not a bi storm. Nobody's out on the salt now - so I don't think we'll have anything further on the rain 'til morning.
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Please advise us as early as you can.
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George Calloway reserved a space for us a couple of years. He had it roped off with our car numbers attached.
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:? ok Packing tomorrow night heading out Thursday AM. Shut the shower OFF
Dale
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Hey Slim, the front row is always reserved, the unwashed are relegated to the hither lands.... did you tell them you were the potty potentate.... maybe the reserved a spot for you and the broadcast booth
:cheers:
We have always pitted on the front row as in 1st come pic your spot for many years and NEVER heard of any kind of payment.
This is bull shit and we need to know who's idea this was and get him or them out of the BNI/SCTA
I learned today of one team or teams that paid $2000 for their spots.
JL222
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It's morning and the skies have cleared some, although NOAA weather doesn't look perfect. We'll mosey out to the salt in an hour and get a good look at what's going on and I'll letcha know. The toilets arrive before lunch - I'll be kinda "on the pot" and might not visit this Forum, so check my facebook page (Jon Wennerberg) for the latest stuff.
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When I worked setting up the pits, impounds, inspection, etc: for years one of the perks for my work was saving a few pits. I mean a FEW for my friends with numbers and tape not my entire car club like some. If I had any idea I could have charged for it I could have become the "slumlord" of Bonneville.. Who knew.
The head Pit Nazi must be having a field day over this if he's still around....
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Given the cost of putting on this event, I really don't see a problem with the organizers charging for premium spots. In fact, I'd throw it open for bids.
That said, if these spots are only going to SCTA club members, and BNI members east of Bakersfield aren't offered an opportunity to buy in - that's redlining.
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The toilets are here!
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Thanks Jon, We will be picking up the toilet on Sunday. Paid by Tom Howland. By Sunday there may not be many toilets around and obvious where you are located. Where are you?
Tom
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Any idea how many pre-entries signed up this year? I tried finding it on SCTA site.
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(http://u.cubeupload.com/SeldomSeenSlim/jgCKsr.jpg) (http://cubeupload.com/im/SeldomSeenSlim/jgCKsr.jpg)
This is what registration and inspection looks like Wednesday morning.
Private rental toilets will be clustered around our compound - a 6x10 red Boy Scout Troop 305 trailer. It'll be near the main entrance to the pits. Find. me or something.
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Update on the private rentals: LEAVE 'EM WHERE THEY ARE. THEY MUST BE CHECKED OUT BEFORE TAKEN.
Other than that, we saw yet another car stuck in the mud today. Geez, folks, don't try it. Unh, it's rough on the salt so far - so dont try driving really fast and don't try finding a smoother road - there ain't none yet.
The speed limit is 45 on the road from Land's End to the Truckstop. Suggestion: Cruise control can save $$ - tickets are expensive bu plentiful. Speaking of that, stop signs are FULL STOP signs, and we've already noticed the Wendover cops stopping lotsa cars for speeding in town. Slow down.
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4.30 Wednesday afternoon and it's raining and thundering here in town. Radar shows it's on the way here - this is just the beginning. Stay tuned. I don't know what's going on at the salt.
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How much longer will this continue???.
This whole hit and miss thing with SW really breaks my heart.
I spend hours on the forum checking out all that's going on, the builds, the tech stuff
and how all you guys live for this sport. Driving thousands of miles to get to Bonneville
only to have go back home due to conditions. I feel for every one of you. I pray that you get
a break this year.
I'll never whine about my situation again. Guys, I'm pulling for each and every one of you.
You need to be rewarded for that good time you all came for. :cheers:
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5.30 and the sun is out, SCTA people are in the pool/hot tub, and the sun is out.
Now the fun stuff: Did I tell you that I had to get a new little 'puter to stream the audio? The old one went missing last year after WoS. This morning I walked into Carquest and Mike said "Go look back there and see if that's what you're looking for." Sure enough - there it was. Great/crap. So - I've got a one year old Toshiba laptop for sale. Will use the newer one - probly get enough for the old one to make returning the new one too much bother. I've got it set up - screw it, I'll use it. Still -- after 11 months- the old one was right there after all. PooP!
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Just so you know, fear not for I have been and will continue to do be doing my anti-rain dance for all of you. I can only imagine the agony each year of waiting and hoping.
GW
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5.30 and the sun is out, SCTA people are in the pool/hot tub, and the sun is out.
Now the fun stuff: Did I tell you that I had to get a new little 'puter to stream the audio? The old one went missing last year after WoS. This morning I walked into Carquest and Mike said "Go look back there and see if that's what you're looking for." Sure enough - there it was. Great/crap. So - I've got a one year old Toshiba laptop for sale. Will use the newer one - probly get enough for the old one to make returning the new one too much bother. I've got it set up - screw it, I'll use it. Still -- after 11 months- the old one was right there after all. PooP!
Good lord, Jon - does Nancy have to pin your mittens to your snow suit sleeves before you go tobogganing? :roll:
The replacement microphone for the one you left at home will also be at CARQUEST on Friday, by the end of the day. Shipped UPS.
Kids these days . . .
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I checked tracking too -- Friday. I see on the job list that I've gotta go get the announce/timing slip trailer tomorrow - I think I'll immediately stash stuff in it to prevent unauthorised losing. :-o
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Getting old ain't for wimps...
Next subject:
Pork Pie is well zonkered out in my back bedroom.
He'll be smiling at ya'll by noonish.
My best lady is in recovery mode from a stroke induced due to nitwittery.
Fred Vance: if you see this give me a call; I would love to compare notes and experiences (advice?).
801 231 6896. WE nearly lost her Sun AM 0300.
THanks all...prayer chains get good results!!!
Jim and MAC
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Did the salt get very wet? Is it just an inconvenience, or is going to be an issue?
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I haven't gone out there yet. I know there was lotsa wind - toilets and tents and stuff got blown over, but no info on the water yet.
IMPORTANT: My camera has opted to take a vacation, so I will be kinda hamstrung using Nancy's camera to get pics. If anyone feels like adding pics here -- go right ahead. Racers start arriving today and there'll be lotsa stuff to see - and I get to spend some time setting up the announce trailer so might be preoccupied. Take and post pics, please.
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10 day from Wunderground shows severe clear:
https://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/zmw:84083.1.99999
ENJOY!
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When does the Live Stream go hot?
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Here's the latest, 'cuz Nancy and I jut got off the salt and know that it rained and blew - for about 15 minutes, and duped dozens or maybe even hundreds of raindrops on us. Other than sending people scurrying for shelter - no big deal. It was about 6PM anyway - with the clouds it was kinda darkening.
Mariani 'liner, Speed Demon, Challenger 2, Target 550, Buckeye (sorry - is this the Bullet or what - I forget) electric 'liner (I hear they've got a primo feed system set up for crew. I hope radio announcers get to sample the goodies. We're talking a major league smoker is what I hear). The Cohn-Juciewcz Monza, the little #360 VW Fuel Altered car, Danny Burrows and the Blowfish (I don't know who/which is more fun - the ultra cool car or Danny), Roy Creel's V4 #53, a kneeler bike or two, I think I saw, and the Indian motorcycle contingent right smack in the middle of the beginning of the pits.
I got the phone fixed - it seems that keeping the iPhone 6 in a pocket when entering the hot tub isnot a good idea. The new one - i7 - is rated, I'm told (based on my adventure last night) for 30 minutes at one meter deep. I wuz only in the water about 10 seconds when I had my "Oh, Subaru!" moment.
(http://u.cubeupload.com/SeldomSeenSlim/waqRRv.jpg)
(http://u.cubeupload.com/SeldomSeenSlim/pKyPCN.jpg)
(http://u.cubeupload.com/SeldomSeenSlim/KBlvmV.jpg)
(http://cubeupload.com)
I spent some time this afternoon updating stuff in the streaming laptop and going into the Meridix site's landracing.com page and things look like they oughta work. I'll probably do some testing tomorrow - will letcha know when I try it so you can offer comments. Later -
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Are 9 miles enough for a Burkland appearance or is 11 miles still his minimum?
GW
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The toilets are here!
how about putting some in the pits... I counted 8 public ones, 4 at each end, in the square mile of pit
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You didn't gp far enough down the pits to see the rest of 'em. We put 'em in four locations, but the pits are so long ----
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Are 9 miles enough for a Burkland appearance or is 11 miles still his minimum?
GW
My understanding is that he needs about 6 miles to reach 500 mph. Therefore, a symmetrical track with the timed mile in the middle (for a two-way record) would be 13 miles.
Maybe 11 miles would be enough to break a current SCTA record. But 9 miles seems a bit short.
Bolivia anyone?
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Good morning, girls and boys. It's Friday - the big opening day, the land rush, the day everyone shows up.
Unh, did someone forget to set the alarm clock? Where is everyone? We drove through Land's End at about 6.45 - and the wait was longer 'cause we handed Lynda a box of donuts - not waiting for traffic. WTF?
Okay - the courses aren't great, dang it, but - they're the only ones we're going to have in a long while, it looks, so get your junk out here and race it.
Other stuff: The "reserved" front row pit area isn't reserved now. Yes, SCTA has a gold class level of support - and those racers/teams/groups get the opportunity to sit i the front row in exchange for some extra bucks. They also get their names/products/whatever mentioned on the radio now and then. As for other reserved front row pits -- the roped-off area was also reserved for volunteer workers as a perk for doing the work. Volunteers get early inspection, in their pits if possible, of the vehicles.
But now - the ropes are down and there's about a half-mile of prime location available as I type.First come, first pitted, just like always. And it's Friday morning so lots of you will have the chance to grab that good spot.
The access road is dry. When Nancy and I drove in Tuesday afternoon it was wet for a mile or more --now it's not, so that's good. I have not been out on the courses today so cannot give any comments today. Yesterday I described it out there as "rough as a cob", and Scott Guthrie asked -- "Yes, but is the cob buttered?" I don't think I'll pursue that line of inquiry just now.
Catch ya later -- gotta set up the audio stuff.
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(http://u.cubeupload.com/SeldomSeenSlim/AyMRZL.jpg) (http://cubeupload.com/im/SeldomSeenSlim/AyMRZL.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/SpeedWeek%202017/4F6AAC47-F16D-4A59-9DE3-43D19C3B0AF2_zpsjoxbzoz6.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/SpeedWeek%202017/4F6AAC47-F16D-4A59-9DE3-43D19C3B0AF2_zpsjoxbzoz6.jpg.html)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/SpeedWeek%202017/0640E1CF-C32E-474B-80EF-596E9D958481_zpsqdqchg65.jpg) (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/SeldomSeenSlim/media/SpeedWeek%202017/0640E1CF-C32E-474B-80EF-596E9D958481_zpsqdqchg65.jpg.html)
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ssssoooooo Slim are you setting up a Ham emergency site in case NKCK North Korea Crazy Kim punches DT's button :?
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The 2 meter rig in the truck, just in case. Remember, if you hear the sirens, sit down with your head between your knees and kiss your azz goodbye.
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Here's the link that'll take you to the audio stream whenever we get it going. If you follow the link now you'll probably see the stuff leftover from Loring, but we'll be there soon. Working on getting the intranet going so I can link to the 'net - maybe later,maybe in the morning.
https://www.meridix.com/channel/?liveid=Landracing#/
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I really wish you all good luck for this Speed Week from the depth of Great Britain,
Go for it, boys!!!
Patrick
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Wishing you all great speeds and safe racing from the Southeast. May no record be safe this week.
A special Thank you to all of the SCTA Volunteers that make Speedweek possible.
I guess I am a "live stream racer" this week!
BR
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Gee, who woulda thunk that a computer left on "sleep" for a year would need updates? I'll get the streaming going yet Stay tuned - of course you will. We're gonna head off the salt and get to the motel and see if the hot tub hurts the new phone.
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Jon: I'm case it's not too late: https://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-OUNNE-Underwater-Snowproof-Shockproof/dp/B06ZYQNLVV/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502504580&sr=8-1&keywords=i7+waterproof+case (https://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-OUNNE-Underwater-Snowproof-Shockproof/dp/B06ZYQNLVV/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502504580&sr=8-1&keywords=i7+waterproof+case)
:cheers:
Mike
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Smart aZZ. 8-)
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You noticed that it's snow-proof too? :evil:
Mike
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I was there last year but this year with some health issues I will be a live stream guy too, sure pray for a safe and great event this year, have fun you racers. Take care, Dave :cheers:
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My Land Speed racing career of 23 years ended in November of 2016 at El Mirage Dry Lake where I made my last run, so at age 78 I decided to find a good home for my Avanti that I bought new in 1963 from Jerry Keys of Keys Motors in Van Nuys. I contacted the Studebaker National Foundation to see if they would want to own my racing Avanti, they jumped for the chance so I donated it too them, also I got my race car professional appraised so I can have a deduction off my income tax, got that accomplished too, then the Foundation contacted me that a car museum called "World of Speed" located at Wilsonville, Oregon (just south of Portland of hwy 5) wanted to have my car there on loan for 2 years. So with the foundations directions Mike Benbennick and myself towed my race car last May to the museum and met the folks there, it is a very nice car museum that has been in business for 2 years, they have NASCAR, drag cars, muscle cars and Land Speed cars in their very nice facility. So my car is in the Land Speed racing section near Mickey Thompson 4 engine streamliner. The foundation promised me to never sell my car and will always move it around the USA to other car museums and long after I have left this world my car will still be shown to the public, what a neat way to end my racing and I have been so lucky to have met so many great people in racing and made my goal by getting into the Bonneville 200 MPH Club and there is no other feeling on earth than getting in your car then pulling down the visor on your helmet and looking down the salt course, then feeling the push truck moving you forward, then at around 40 mph you let the clutch out and apply 800 hp of turbo Studebaker power, then watch the mile makers fly by and at just after the 5th mile deploy you chute and feel a negative 1.2 Gs of stopping power, that is a special feeling that I will never forget, take care and God Bless and stay safe, Dave Bloomberg "Avanti Kid Racing"
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first pass of the meet...432 mph exit....poteet
the race is on ...thompson 439...
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The Speed Demon team decided to gear the car way tall today - a 528 MPH gear, the thinking being that if the track was slick the long gear would help keep the back end from breaking loose. They wanted a 420 or so to qualify on the A/BFS record - ran a 418+ and are in impound.
Danny Thompson isn't back yet - don't know if he had any trouble stopping at the far end. Speed Demon reported he went past them while they were picking up. I'll keep an eye open in Impound to see if the car is there.
The track is evidently better than some expected. We're running - and there's a race!!!
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I'm not getting any "Live Stream" audio, does anyone else getting it????? :?
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Nobody is getting the stream because we aren't sending one. SCTA is still getting the overall comm system running properly. Sorry.
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Thanks Slim!
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Kids, I'm also posting some stuff on the landracing.com Facebbok site. Trying to give the same stuff so there's no reason to prefer one over the other.
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Thanks Slim. Starting off to be a good week it appears. Now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lets go Target550....................................
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Marlo Treit stopped in the announce trailer - says Les wants to run the car in the morning. Evidently the Strasburg lakester ate a set of drive tires on the run it made, and data showed it could have been been a tire hop allowing a quick overspeed which then put a spinning tire(s) on the salt and hurt it.
The racing pace is - mellow, okay? Kinda what I'd expect for maybe Wednesday afternoon - and it's still the first hours of the entire event. I haven't counted vehicles in Impound yet - but there are a few. We've had a good number of spins, all up and down the course. No incidents that required much worry yet - that's good.
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Slim, thanks for your effort. I sure need a fix on the live stream, ain't no sound in the world like out there.
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Slim,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you know,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,where does Danny Thompson stand?
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Jon:
We are in a desert parched for sppedweek information!
BR
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I saw a fb pic of Danny in impound...
Sam
#6062
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I saw a fb pic of Danny in impound...
Sam
#6062
Thanks
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The Carbinite guys have set up a text notification group, see their FB page for instructions on how to subscribe. Don't know if there's a cost involved.
Text of the last two texts:
Very rough course. Nose scraped and picked up lots of salt. Oil leak but not sure where it is coming from.
361 MPH on shakedown run.
Hopefully that's not Top Secret or anything...
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Well said Dave. Great post. Thanks for all of your years of dedication. Next time you have a fast car to donate, look me up. :wink:
I can't wait to get on the salt. The car (#409 Blue Goose Racing) is there with my brother and father. I'll be there with the rest of the group Monday. Good luck everybody!
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Hurray! They're racing!
Way to go Dave for your museum donation.
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Lot of cars joining the spin club today. Saw 2 late in the day on long course. Several spinners on the short course, and the car I crew on was a spinner!!!
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Jack Iliff made a few runs - was just off his record the last one. Ronnie Roadster needed some quick change 6-spline gears -- we helped him find them on the radio so he'll run again tomorrow. He didn't bring long enough gears. Fred Dannenfelzer won the Bob Higbee Volunteer award this morning - and ran his lakester this aftenoon. He broke in the middle mile and coasted through.
Johhnie Rouse was making a run on his monster 3000 cc HD and - turned out about the 1 1/2. We saw him at supper (at the Salt Flats Cafe, which was pleasingly jam-packed) and he explained that the bike was running hard and strong when the fuel pump fuse went away. Yeah, sure, Johhnie, blame the little tiny fuse. Whatever -- good luck tomorrow.
The Turbinator made a solid 5-mile run this afternoon - mid 300s. Nice run. Nice. . . Did I tell you that Marlo Treit said they'll run the car in the morning? Les wants some 3-400 mph testing and chute deploy and such. Seth Hammond's #77 AA/GL is still parked on the trailer, out front of the Quality Inn in Wendover.
Enugh. There's a slice of apple pie calling to me. So is Nancy.
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No streaming and limited info on here? :-(
Culled from elsewhere: Danny Thompson 435.735; Speed Demon 418.168; Eric Ritter 359. Some big numbers for the first day! :cheers:
Speed Demon going for an Al Teague record?
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Morning everyone,
Well we are on the way and will be there first thing tomorrow. Racing commitments in Michigan meant we had to delay getting to Bonneville. See you all tomorrow. Stay safe everyone.
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Good morning Bonneville. I love the smell of napalm in the morning,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and nitro, and alcohol, and just plain good old gasoline. Hope its a good day. Hope Slim got his apple pie and Nancy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,er,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i mean,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well never mind....................................
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Slim are you able to stream the audio of the event? I tried on my phone and it doesn't seem to work. TIA
Chris Nelson
Kansas
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Good morning right back atcha, girls and boys. I'm here at the announce trailer and the qualifiers are at the line and going to run soon. I had my pie last night. That's enough on that subject.
The stream: Well, we sure as heck hope to get it up and running today. Lots of comm difficulties yesterday meant that I didn't get the system to work. Now we've got service - hope to start the stream soonest.
Stay tuned -- lotsa good runs coming today!
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I had my pie last night. That's enough on that subject.
LOL,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Thanks for all you do Slim. Looking forward to the sound.
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Danny turnout at the 2 ...update from Jon Amo
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In the meantime, Danny Thompson left the line strong but shut it down before the 1 and is coasting to a stop on the return road. No smoke. We're still doing return runs - not all that many of them this morning.
Rick Harden working on a 257 record right now - ran 266 in the four yesterday, about 20 mph down from yesterday. 249.275 last mile. Might be enough - unofficial math says he did it. 1992 'Vette 477" motor A/BFMS
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Mike Strasburg backs up his 344 yesterday with another one today - on his own 337 record. AA/BFL
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im not there, but about 40 or so minutes ago around 0807 am ...reports on FB state
Poteet ran sweet 428 back up run this am...
also bangshift has some coverage as well:
all the record qualifiers listed on their site with pics of actual
certification sheets:
https://bangshift.com/bangshift1320/scoop-danny-thompson-hammers-streamliner-435mph-saturday-record-qualifiers/
also a nice gallery of pics from salt, in town, car show etc:
https://bangshift.com/bangshift1320/bonneville-baby-heres-spot-2017-bonneville-speed-week-coverage/
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Constantly updating picture feeds from the Speedweek:
http://www.thepicta.com/tag/speedweek
http://www.thepicta.com/tag/speedweek2017
http://www.thepicta.com/tag/saltflats
http://www.thepicta.com/tag/bonnevillespeedway
http://www.thepicta.com/tag/landspeed
http://www.thepicta.com/tag/LandSpeedRacing
You can change the tag in the end to anything.
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Hi Jon, I just picked up my Honey Bucket. I couldn't find you. Thanks for holding it.
TomHowland
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Just read on FB that Danny Thompson broke a rod and is done for the meet. Hope he comes back another meet.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just read on FB that Danny Thompson broke a rod and is done for the meet. Hope he comes back another meet.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
From Danny's FB page:
Front engine broke a con-rod. Danny was able to pull off safely, but of course they are done for the meet. Too bad.
But the performance is there for a potential record. They plan to be back for the World Finals later in the year.
:cheers:
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The stream: Well, we sure as heck hope to get it up and running today. Lots of comm difficulties yesterday meant that I didn't get the system to work. Now we've got service - hope to start the stream soonest.
translation: new computer , can't find the little door where the wood goes in :-D :-D hang on, i think I found it :-D
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Waiting for a USB cable to get the audio to the internet form the mixer- the analog wires didn't get it going.
Parts of the computer system here (not the broadcast/streaming part) is producing some headaches - the long course has been down for quite a while. Short and rookie courses still running.
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Hey i got double vision. Sounds like we might be up and running?
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Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe not :?
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I hear music!
That's a start.
BR
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AH,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,good to hear your voice Slim
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Worked for a couple of minutes, then nothing.
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Loud and clear at 4:43 PM EST way down south in Fla.
Thanks, Jon.
BR
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Worked for a couple of minutes, then nothing.
That's been my experience also. When it's not working, it shows a swirling refresh symbol.
It's been working for about the last five minuites.
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Working good! Thank you Slim! :cheers:
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Live audio working well around 5:00 eastern time Sunday
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Coming in loud & clear in Oz :-D
Tiny
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Hey Slim! Now that they've got the A/BFS record, is the Speed Demon team packing up? Or, are they sticking around, perhaps to try for a one-time pass higher than Danny Thompson's, to get their name on the trophy again?
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Hey Slim! Now that they've got the A/BFS record, is the Speed Demon team packing up? Or, are they sticking around, perhaps to try for a one-time pass higher than Danny Thompson's, to get their name on the trophy again?
On FB, it says they are changing to a C motor.
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Enjoying the broadcast ....and the zz top in the background :-)
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Anyone seen Alp's new bike run yet?
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Anybody know when they are going to post the runs? I thought they were usually up for the previous day by dinner time, but none of the links are active on the SCTA website.
Kix
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I remember waiting 3 months to read about Bonneville in results in the 50's waiting for coverage in
HR magizine and my hero Karol Miller. Now it seemed I want it right now. I'll be there in October to see Danny make another attemp with his mom Judy, And hopefully help Charlie Reno with his AA/ BGMR.
The rest is all BS, now I'll just waiting for Marlo and Rick and the Turbinator. I will always be a spectator first. Racing is my pashin but the love it is always #1.
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Hey, all. Yeah, a bit of chaos in the live streaming. I think I've got it squared away for Monday. The new computer's analogy input uses a 4 conductor jack - all we had for analog cables were 3 conductor mini jacks.
Jon sourced a cable from the computer wonk, and we're utilizing the ad/da converter in the mixer.
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Hey, all. Yeah, a bit of chaos in the live streaming. I think I've got it squared away for Monday. The new computer's analogy input uses a 4 conductor jack - all we had for analog cables were 3 conductor mini jacks.
Jon sourced a cable from the computer wonk, and we're utilizing the ad/da converter in the mixer.
I have been accused of being "one conductor short" at times.
It sounded great way down south. Thanks for all of the effort to put this together.
BR
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I think we're on the air this morning already. Return runs are about to start. I'm gonna talk for a while but'll be back sooner or later. Let me know if it's working, please.
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I think we're on the air this morning already. Return runs are about to start. I'm gonna talk for a while but'll be back sooner or later. Let me know if it's working, please.
Loud and clear in Florida.
Thanks,
Bill
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Andy Loyd in Quam Bomb just set the record on return run, congrats and maybe get a Red Hat :cheers:
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I think we're on the air this morning already. Return runs are about to start. I'm gonna talk for a while but'll be back sooner or later. Let me know if it's working, please.
Sounding good in Arizona this morning Slim! Any news on the on the 750 APS-PBF Triumphs from Michigan and the UK ?
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daily runs just posted!
Kix
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Ronnie Roadster just came into the announce trailer to show me his NEW RED HAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Jon, please pass along my congratulations to Ronnie. He is a real gentleman and very happy to see him in the two club.
John Goodman
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Has Poteet made a run yet with the "C" motor?
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I heard him make a 410 and change run this morning. Slim's paperwork still showed him with an A motor, but we all know about paperwork. Slim, thanks for the great broadcast, I even managed to hear my Salt Cat Racing buddies set the record this morning. Hi Flipper
Doug
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I heard him make a 410 and change run this morning. Slim's paperwork still showed him with an A motor, but we all know about paperwork. Slim, thanks for the great broadcast, I even managed to hear my Salt Cat Racing buddies set the record this morning. Hi Flipper
Doug
c engine is in 410.899mph mile 5 according to SD facebook page (there is still A/BFS on the timing ticket)
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Jon:
Great job today...listened most of the day.
Thanks,
Bill
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All course hold for strong winds, with the tower asking everyone to batten down the pits and everything. Strong windstorm is forecast for the next three hours - so this might be the end of racing today. I'll letcha know.
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Many thanks from me in south france to you Slim,
Enjoying the broadcasting.
Enola gay cafe closeing time is my midnight,
Seems to be windy and shaking your radio shack.
Any chance of puting a microphone outside to hear the cars and bikes a bit louder ?
Hope the winds dont do much damage and that they blow away somewhere else.
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Jon does have a microphone in front of the broadcast trailer, but if he pushes it too hard, it picks up conversations outside.
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Great news about Ronnie. He has been working for that red hat for a lot of years.
Joe
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Good morning and thanks for the broadcast Slim and Ron.
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Anyone heard if the purple #1459 Gerber Tracy F/GL has made any runs this year?
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Slim, thanks for the live cast. It gets me a salt fix. I'm in the process of moving into the new house this week so was unable to attend this year. Again. One of these years life will cooperate and I'll be able to get the bike out there. So for this year, Go Bo Burkdoll!
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We're on an all-course hold here. Two simultaneous incidents - the Sundowner went "bang" and turned in - might have dropped parts. On the short course a car got out of shape and the emergency crews are responding. Nothing more at this point but stay tuned.
A few minutes later: And since we're going to be down for a while the course workers are doing a slow and careful sweep for parts and such. How carefully do they search? A few years ago Ed Shearer handed me a Dzus button he'd found on the course - with paint that perfectly matched my bike. Hmmm -- the button could have cut a tire, and now we know why they're taking time to do a slow and extra careful search.
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So I heard on the radio the the Sundowner may well have had a "bang" moment. The crew reports the trans blanket is ow loose, and course workers have found bearings on the course. Hmmm.
As for the other course, all I've heard is that the course itself doesn't need repair - the car was off the course when whatever happened.
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Burton Brown from the Forum was just in here asking us to try to find him a fuel pump. He managed to earn his Red Hat this morning and wants to go do some more runs. The pump showed a bit of a leak and fixing it managed to strip the threads, and they want to take some power OUT. Nice problem.
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What kind of pump?
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Bosch 044. But in the meantime, it's a quarter after five and they're going to let a few more long course vehicles run and then quit running long course. The course is in poor shape and officials are advising that they'll close the course at 5.30, but if anyone is down there they're offered the chance to run if they want data or something - but no qualifying.
The short course continues to run. Things'll close down at 7 tonight and reopen with record return runs at 7 tomorrow.
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Poteet and Main could have just wanted to make a pass before paying the extra entry. The record IS 437 in "C" and they have it with one of the older designs. If they had go over the 437 the run would have been for nothing because the engine would not have met the "A" they had been running under the 715 entry number.
If you forget to change to a new number when you change classes you are wasting runs and a possible record.
It's happened before when a record was denied do to the lack of a number change and now possibly the classification. Not sure on that one but the number I am.
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Where in relation to the track are you broadcasting from today?
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What are you using for internet connection? Seems to me that you need a lot of bandwidth.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We feed through my little Jetpack (600k or so at this point) to Meridix. Using not very much - less than a gigabyte/day.
We're on an all-course hold fo a while. There was a crash/rollover on the pit access road and everyone has responded - so no racing. Stay tuned, and NO, IT WASN'T A RACER.
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How does THAT happen?
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We're on an all-course hold for a while. There was a crash/rollover on the pit access road and everyone has responded - so no racing. Stay tuned, and NO, IT WASN'T A RACER.
I'm really trying not to be judgmental, and I hope everyone's okay and that this was just a fluke, but a rollover on the pit road?
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I looked up Poteet and Main and they did pre enter both classes. Either a typo error or in fact they have not taken the vehicle back thru inspection. The number for "C" is 1715...
When I was doing the timing tags for Bonneville years ago I saw this quite a few times where the person entering the data only saw the name and when came up it was "self loading" and was not noticed by the person... Mostly by numbers however and not names. I have no idea how the program is set now. JD.
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Can anyone tell what the Triumph was that set the 185.484 record. Steve French from the UK, bike #775
thanks in advance gents and ladies.
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We ran the Short Course Saturday to get our driver, Willie Martin, an upgrade to the 200 MPH "A" license. He did set a record of sorts -- the odometer read the 4 miles it took to get to the 3. High speed of 180 near as we could tell. His nickname is Guard Rail Willie because of certain street problems. From what Bill Lattin, who followed him down the course, told me the next morning, he would have earned that name on the salt if it had guard rails. Why it didn't spin, I have no idea.
Talked to Jim Dincau yesterday. His beautiful blue 27 Street Roadster (in F, I think) has wheel speed sensors in it. It read 140 for the front tires and 168 for the rears before it spun on the Short coarse Course.
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Guard Rail Willie hahahahaha. Love it.
I have ridden with someone who could also have earned that name.
Brillaint. hahahahaha.
:cheers:
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Any word on the racer who crashed on Sunday?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Did I read somewhere they are no longer running on the long course?
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Oh jeez. Did I see a helicopter leaving to take somebody to the hospital? Prayers for the folks involved.
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Oh jeez. Did I see a helicopter leaving to take somebody to the hospital? Prayers for the folks involved.
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45436703&nid=148&title=medical-helicopters-heading-to-salt-flats
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That does not make for good reading. Fingers crossed nobody was too seriously hurt (I know that is an odd comment, but I hope you all know what I mean).
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Serious non-racer crash on the public access road. Two non-racer (we think) vehicles head on crash, with serious injuries. I sat in traffic and watched three helicopters take off. Racing is suspended for a good while as things get reset.
Damn. Best wishes and prayers to those involved in the crash. No known cause yet, no official word from SCTA on what happened.
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From the SCTA Facebook page.
SW Update:
At approximately 8:45 a.m. there was a traffic accident on the access road to the pits involving two support vehicles. A total of six people were injured, two seriously. All injured were treated by professional safety and medical personnel. The injured were all transported to University Medical Center in Salt Lake City by ambulance and helicopter. Toole County Sheriff's are investigating.
We will issue updates when made available.
The investigation is ongoing.
Pat McDowell
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Fortunate for the injured parties to be taken to U of U and NOT The dreaded, well named "Death Star" in Murray, AKA Intermountain Medical Center.
Their track record is nothing to brag about.
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Has anybody heard anything about plans to reopen the tracks?
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Tune into the Meridex website; the racers are running.
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Fortunate for the injured parties to be taken to U of U and NOT The dreaded, well named "Death Star" in Murray, AKA Intermountain Medical Center.
Their track record is nothing to brag about.
I Don't know about that, They reattached my right leg in 2010 when I virtually cut it off through the patella knocking off the Tibia, fibula and all the tendons.
I can walk, work out and run normal. Right leg is stronger than the left now. And there is no pain from the bolts and plates. Aside from a funny looking bump where the bolts stick out it is a great job the "Death Star" did on me.
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https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45436703&nid=148&title=1-killed-5-injured-in-bonneville-salt-flats-crash
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The #5 VOT car was motoring down the course sounding as sweet as can be when it got away from him about the 2 1/2. He got the laundry out quickly and got it back and then motored off the course a bit past the 3.
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George Poteet runs 438.643 last mile, 453.876 back door. Whoo-hoo!
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Top speed of the meet.. 438.6 with "C" engine.
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Just when we thought we might see somebody else's name on the HRM trophy next year!
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I see the pix but haven't found details. New engine for Joint Venture or just new exhaust/turbo arrangement?
GW
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I talked with Danny and the Challenger has more in it.
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Rat - please elaborate as to how?
GW
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I am not sure how the accident happened. This happened to me. I was driving on the salt one way and another truck was going the other way and directly toward me. I swerved to my right. He swerved to his left at exactly the same time. We were going to hit head on. Quick reflexes on his part saved the day. Now, in the same situation, I put on the turn signals in the direction I will swerve and watch the situation very carefully.
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Comet, Dave & Steve took their class record 157mph, :-D :-D
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Thanks for the info Buzz, Any idea on what engine they were running? I gather it is a 750 twin?
Any news on the 5 injured parties from the incident?
Good luck everyone for a smooth and safe remainder of the week.
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Supercharged 750 nearly all billet made by Dave in his workshop all done on manual machines no cnc.
The Diamond Mob on the old Odgie Pink Triumph to their respective class record too.
Looks like the boys are on a mission to make up, for the all the hard work rain offs & failures.
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Thanks for the info Buzz, Any idea on what engine they were running? I gather it is a 750 twin?
Any news on the 5 injured parties from the incident?
Good luck everyone for a smooth and safe remainder of the week.
Dave and Steves bike has some of the engine work mentioned around 19:57 in? https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2fms41 (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2fms41)
Probably a bt out of date but also seemed to have a site here? http://www.saltbike775.co.uk/ (http://www.saltbike775.co.uk/)
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I see the pix but haven't found details. New engine for Joint Venture or just new exhaust/turbo arrangement?
GW
It's a new engine, but I believe they actually made the change last year. In place of the Detroit 16V-92 is what I think is an MTU-2000.
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Hay, kiddos -- it's Thursday morning out here on the salt. The steam is running -- just silent right now, sorta.
Ron Christensen said he checked out the "new" long course (new yesterday) and it's not pretty right in front of us - where we'd seen so many big roostertails and spins and such yesterday. Salt not very thick - 1/2 - 3/4" and way loose. THIS could be why so many had issues yesterday. Ron mentioned chunks of tire all about the place, too. We'll assume all has now been cleared
George Poteet is NOT running - didn't go to impound last night Ran fast, got the trophy (again! Congrats), put it away. With the C motor, no less!
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Hey Slim,
You have some music over streaming the broadcast. It sounds like a seek music setup.
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Slim,
It appears to be a loop of a promo for soda box units. It completely block out the broadcast.
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Thanks for the info gents.
Now I am sitting here listening to the audio stream with the Salt webcam on my screen. Wow! I just need a sun lamp and a snow cone and it'll be just like being there.
:cheers:
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Great story about Bolivia, thanks for sharing that! :cheers:
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Missed the start of interview sounded like a Texan was it Al Lamb
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Al Lamb and Mike Cook.
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We're down to one combo course at the salt. Rookie course closed maybe an hour ago, and the short course just hosted the final vehicle there for this event. What remains ain't great -- Rob Freyvogel just ran and sounded nice - 'til he got into the sand traps.
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SSS –
Can you tell us who was involved in the accident?
Stan
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Great story about Bolivia, thanks for sharing that! :cheers:
I can't find the story :? A link please,
Sumner
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Johnboy (Speed Limit 1000) just lost the handle on the Bockscar just past the 2 mile and kinda spun then rolled it a few times. Ron tells me that he's out of the car and walking around - Ron's got binoculars.
We're on hold.
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Thoughts going out to Johnboy, Stainless and crew
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Great story about Bolivia, thanks for sharing that! :cheers:
I can't find the story :? A link please,
Sumner
Sorry for the confusion, it was via the live audio feed. Slim may know if there's a recording somewhere.
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1: The audio is archived at the Meridix site. Click on the "listen here" link and then select archives.
2: As i was leaving a coupla minutes ago the Bockscar crew vehicle stopped by for a timing slip -- and Johboy was sitting in the back seat wearing a funky quick-made sling to hold his left arm in place. He said he had a nasty bump on the arm - bicep area - ergo the sling. Other than that he was as lucid and cogent and offensive as you might want.
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How bad was the condition of the salt this year? Sounds like after a day or two of running things were not good?
I see in the SCTA results that Rosie lost his record to the Brits and he only made one run....any reports on what happened to 732B?
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How bad was the condition of the salt this year? Sounds like after a day or two of running things were not good?
I see in the SCTA results that Rosie lost his record to the Brits and he only made one run....any reports on what happened to 732B?
Go dig up Ed Umlands in cockpit video (or others) on Youtube and you can see how rough it is.
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How bad was the condition of the salt this year? Sounds like after a day or two of running things were not good? quote]
It was not good out here. Wet and heavy on Saturday. Lots of cars spinning the whole time I was there. So many they ran out of spin club stickers.
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Thoughts going out to Johnboy, Stainless and crew
x2 :cheers:
Mike
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My video isn't on youtube but its on facebook. I had a bit of a rough ride. Broke a driveline first pass. folded back belly pan second.
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My video isn't on youtube but its on facebook. I had a bit of a rough ride. Broke a driveline first pass. folded back belly pan second.
I originally had Facebook in there but changed it since many folks here do not use it.
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I'm looking at one of my timing slips and there is a part I don't quite understand. At the bottom there is an entry that reads "SP 25.68 in". I'm assuming that means Static Pressure. I apologize if this is a stupid question. What is static pressure? How do I use that information to help me when I come back to Wendover next year? Any elaboration would be appreciated.
Side note- Many Thanks to Seldom Seen Slim for all his great work on the website and all of the great work he does announcing (among other things) at Speed Week. It is much appreciated.
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If you were at sea level on a "standard day" the local atmospheric pressure would be 29.92" of Hg..
Divide the pressure at the salt flats by 29.92 and you have the percentage of air (O2) available to fill the cylinders there compared to sea level standard conditions ...
This directly affects the horsepower output, fuel flow requirements, and the air resistance of moving vehicles..
Robert
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Learnin' somthin' here...
So 25.68/29.92=.858289%.
Therefore you have about 86% of o2 as compared to sea level, and thus will run rich if jetted for sea level. Is that correct?
Thanks,
Chris
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One thing I have noticed from my own experience as well as studying the Bonneville results is that most vehicles, especially bikes do not improve their speed from the 3 mile to the 5 mile. Some even slow down. Light vehicles like bikes can get to their maximum speed pretty quickly and don't need the extra 2 miles for acceleration.
I know it is cool to run the long course, but the extra length can expose the vehicle and driver to engine failure, overheating, bad surface, etc. Any comments on this?
Don
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Still no IDs?
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Yes "Happy Pappy", you will be too rich by 14.2% WITH CARBS,,,,however, most modern EFI systems take into account the local air pressure and adjust automatically...
We old school types still have to swap out jets to keep things in the sweet spot.
As to the fact that many vehicles slow down after running several miles, the basic reason is quite simple...Heat Soak...
Assuming that nothing is wrong with a vehicle mechanically, an engine will continue heating for quite a while till thermal equalization is met where the heat output equals the cooling available in all the components...
For every 11 degrees F that the intake fuel/air charge heats up,,, a 1% power loss is experienced....
Robert
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Hey Tug Boat and others that might be interested in this stuff, :-D
The SP on the timing tag should be referring to the STATION PRESSURE which is a local barometric pressure number that is not corrected to sea level. Regardless of what the timing tag shows, you can go to the website http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=BFLAT&unit=0&timetype=LOCAL and check the time of day closest to your run and look for PRESSURE and that will be the local STATION PRESSURE and is a quite accurate number that we the taxpayers are paying for to be well taken care of (the equipment) and the measurements taken at that station is on the salt flats. 8-)
Of course what it doesn't show is the conditions of the salt itself. There is also a live webcam on there as well. :roll:
Regards to all and stay safe,
HB2 :-)
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Johnboy (Speed Limit 1000) just lost the handle on the Bockscar just past the 2 mile and kinda spun then rolled it a few times. Ron tells me that he's out of the car and walking around - Ron's got binoculars.
We're on hold.
I am doing fine. Moving good for a beat up old man :cheers:
Johnboy
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Johnboy (Speed Limit 1000) just lost the handle on the Bockscar just past the 2 mile and kinda spun then rolled it a few times. Ron tells me that he's out of the car and walking around - Ron's got binoculars.
We're on hold.
I am doing fine. Moving good for a beat up old man :cheers:
Johnboy
Good to hear.
Don
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Glad you're ok. How's the car look?
Mike
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If anyone is in touch with the appropriate SCTA person, could you ask them to add the 'Daily Runs' info for August 15 to the SCTA-BNI website please. Both long and short course lists are currently missing.
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Patrick Beales, rider on bike 35, just went down at aboutthe 2 1/4. No information yet on his condition - rescue and course workers are out there now.
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Jon: Ron may have his mic too far from his mouth, but at least he switches his on! Your voice is distinctive so we can just about hear you are talking in the background. :roll:
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Jon, Glad to hear you are ok---hopefully the car came out as well
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Rob Freyvogel just hurt the trans during a run and pulled out about the 2.
Qualifying ends in less than an hour.
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Slim:
Did Buckeye Bullet make a return run this morning? If so, could you please pass the numbers along? Thx!
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Nope - Buckeye Bullet did not run today. No idea why not - especially after yesterday's qualifier.
We're on the one hour break between the end of qualifying and the return runs.
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I'm sure I've missed it somewhere. Has Target 550 done anything ? Thanx.
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Thanks to Slim and Ron and everyone else involved.
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Target 550 made a pass, I was at the starting line. R It was really thundering, then (just my opinion) sounded to me like it broke a shaft or belt, etc. Sounded like one engine was overreving and one was still pulling, then shutdown. A day or so later, Tuesday, they left.
Ron
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Target 550 made a pass, I was at the starting line. R It was really thundering, then (just my opinion) sounded to me like it broke a shaft or belt, etc. Sounded like one engine was overreving and one was still pulling, then shutdown. A day or so later, Tuesday, they left.
Ron
Thanx.
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Target 550 made a pass, I was at the starting line. R It was really thundering, then (just my opinion) sounded to me like it broke a shaft or belt, etc. Sounded like one engine was overreving and one was still pulling, then shutdown. A day or so later, Tuesday, they left.
Ron
I wonder if it was more R&P problems.
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Nope - Buckeye Bullet did not run today. No idea why not - especially after yesterday's qualifier.
I wonder if they were just tuning up for the Shootout. I don't remember seeing them on the latest entry list, though.
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Saw some of you! :cheers:
Missed some of you! :cry: :cry:
https://goo.gl/photos/GzQPLuujep2fk9iS7
Photos are out of order - Google is too stupid to sort by file name! :x :x
But at least it is not Botophucket! :-D :-D
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Ron and Jon,THANKS for the live feed!
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Jon and Ron, thanks for the live feed.
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I was told Tooele County Sheriff Department has released the name of the deceased individual in the automobile accident on Tuesday, but not the names of the injured. A lot of us in California are concerned if they were crew members we knew.
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From the HAMB The car they where racing was number 1166 C/GL McCambridge Bros Trucking owned by Rick McCambridge. Rick was seriously injured in the accident as well as Erick Burns (Tweety Bird Honda) and Dale Charles.
This group is from Sonoma Ca. and we have been going to Bonneville for many years together. Losing Chris Clay really makes you think about how precious life is.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts
steve
Liberty Garage, Yesterday at 6:12 PM
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Steve,
Thoughts and prayers to all involved and their families.
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Woody- thanks for the neat photos.
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Saw some of you! :cheers:
Missed some of you! :cry: :cry:
https://goo.gl/photos/GzQPLuujep2fk9iS7
Photos are out of order - Google is too stupid to sort by file name! :x :x
But at least it is not Botophucket! :-D :-D
Thanks for the pics Woody!!
:cheers:
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Our thoughts and condolences are with the McCambridge team, family and their many friends.
What a tragedy, terrible accident, but surprised it does not happen more often.
It could happen to any of us.
JL222 and Langlo racing team.
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Hi Woody... Thanks for sharing pics. Very nice. Couldn't make it last couple of years due to health issues ( not life threatening ( I hope!)). Hopeful for 2018.
Condolences to those involved in the collision.
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Al Teague lost his 409 mph record held since 1991 to Main and Poteet, too fat cats going after all the records and don't have a clue about building a car or engine them self's, like AL.
They have the car and engine built, pay the crew and show up and drive.
I wonder what Al's cost was compared to theirs?
JL222
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26 years, the Teague record stood, but I certainly wouldn't diss a team as well organized and disciplined as Poteet and Main just because they have the resources necessary to make it happen. Managerial skills and the vision to hire the right people and follow through on a vision are equally as important as exceptional talent and sweat equity.
They earned the record by utilizing modern management techniques.
Not taking anything away from Al Teague, but let's flip the question. Given the same financial resources, who do you think would be faster today?
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I think Al called and congratulated them on the new record. I think that says it all.
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Al Teague lost his 409 mph record held since 1991 to Main and Poteet, too fat cats going after all the records and don't have a clue about building a car or engine them self's, like AL.
They have the car and engine built, pay the crew and show up and drive.
I wonder what Al's cost was compared to theirs?
JL222
Racing has ALWAYS been expensive, no matter the era. It has also been a playground for the wealthy, many a small fortune has been made by starting with a large fortune . . . . . . .
With the technology required today to go fast, it is inevitable that professionals will be involved at some point and some level.
Not trying to provoke or incite anybody, just describing how I see it. Even the lowest buck efforts need to use machine shops and the like.
:cheers:
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Al Teague lost his 409 mph record held since 1991 to Main and Poteet, too fat cats going after all the records and don't have a clue about building a car or engine them self's, like AL.
They have the car and engine built, pay the crew and show up and drive.
I wonder what Al's cost was compared to theirs?
JL222
Our car (D/GL #409) goes less than 1/2 the speed of the speed demon team and I'd be willing to bet my father spent about 1/100 the amount of money that the speed demon team spent. We have a great time as a family working on the car and taking turns trying to go fast. My dad spent countless hours in the garage building a really cool car that goes fast and is tough as hell. This year alone, the car made at least 15 passes and 6 drivers got to drive it and The Blue Goose hasn't blown up on us or had a major failure yet. Knock on wood. I get what you mean JL222. However, I gotta say that I really like Speed Demon. Very cool car. And it really takes big cajones to keep your foot on the gas at those speeds (especially after the demise of the previous Speed Demon. Yikes). Poteet has definitely earned his reputation, in my humble opinion. You can't do what he does without a large team of highly skilled people that can build amazing engines, transmissions, frame, body, etc. Congratulations to George Poteet and the Speed Demon team. Congratulations to all the folks who made the journey out to the salt and managed to have a great time racing. It's not an easy thing to do, regardless of what class you might be in.
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I wonder how fast Poteet/Main would be on 1991-quality salt?
Mike
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:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: to all of them!!!!!!!!!!!
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I wonder how fast Poteet/Main would be on 1991-quality salt?
Mike
fastER
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Any word on how the Costella cars ran?
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Daily runs/qualifiers/records for the last couple of days are posted on the SCTA web site. :-) :-) :cheers:
August 15 daily runs (long and short courses) still missing. :-(
Anyone able to offer any help?
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The Ron's Hobby Shop race team is now home the car is in the shop and all cleaned up. I would like to thank everyone form the SCTA for working so hard to give us the best racing surface's they could with what they had to work with they did an amazing job in my opinion. Also a big Thanks to Slim for handing me the microphone so I could ask everyone listening in the pits for the taller gear set I was looking for.
We arrived at Speedweek with an untested combination we did not know if the engine which my son and I machined and hand built using many one off internal parts would run a mile or blow. From the first pass Saturday morning and every run after that each one was over 200 MPH. By Sundays backup run my son had established the record at 200.448. Sunday afternoon it was my turn to drive the car my qualifying speed at mile three was over 223 plus MPH boy it was wild ride the wind was pushing me around pretty good and the traction was not the best.
For Mondays backup run the wind was still blowing hard across the coarse this pushed the car to the right side of the coarse I was getting pretty close to the edge of the coarse so I decided to not push to hard mile tree speed was 208 plus I now held the record at 216.131. The 2 club minimum for entry for the XXF/BGRMR class was 210 I had no idea I would do this well or gain entry into the club. We certainly put a huge amount of work into this but I'm still in shock about how it was turning out. My runs were on the long coarse. Next it was my sons turn Monday on the long coarse to top my record his run was extremely exciting between mile two and three he was looking at the pits the wind had the car sideways his mile 2 and 3 speeds were just over 209 MPH thankfully he and the car were safe all the work we did on making sure the center of pressure and gravity were correct I feel kept the car from spinning.
After Jr's fun ride we decided to try the short coarse so on Tuesday morning when Ron Jr had his turn to run he qualified a bit over my record he ran 225 plus. His back up run Wednesday morning was 224 plus. Ron set the XXF/BGRMR record at 225.003 and he joined dad as a new member of the 2 club. When we arrived it was an open record. All told we made 7 runs on the car the only work needed on our engine was basic valve lash adjustment.
All the hours in the shop was worth the effort were looking forward to next year hopefully with better salt but that part about the salt I doubt will happen.
Ron
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Ron and Jr., be extremely satisfied. You will NEVER exceed
this week. You may raise the record. Butt, what You 2 did
in one week is WAY beyond expectations. You should be
congratulated and satisfied. Ya' did so well that you will
never exceed this week. Just be happy and don't give the
Salt Gremlins too many opportunities to "eat your lunch."
Bonneville is not forgiving. Don't set your goals too high.
Let enjoyment be your goal for your next visit. You took
advantage of Mutha Salt and she will remember You.
Marlo Treit has been competing at Bonneville since 1957
and all that experience, since then, is not helping on his
Target550 project. Mutha Salt broke one set of drive
shafts last year and then broke the companion shafts
this year. We must may alienated her somewhere along
the line and she is getting even with our project. Time is
our killer and it was just extended by another year but she
didn't give either of us a Mulligan on our age.
FREUD
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I like the amateur classes right up to home built streamliners. I appreciate the time, effort and funding put into professional teams as well. I wonder if there can be a separation of the two in the rules. Congrats to Poteet, I don't care if your the builder, funder or crew member, it takes a bucket of guts to strap in and put the peddle to the metal and keep it there at those outstanding speeds.
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I wonder how fast Poteet/Main would be on 1991-quality salt?
Mike
Mike,
Since you brought it up, I always wondered how Team Speed Demon would do if they had to run the old three runs, 15 miles 1991 rules, instead of the new two runs, 10 miles. Records were much harder to achieve then.
Tom G.
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I figure, if The Speed Demon can run 438 with a "C" motor on the salt I saw out there on Monday, three runs on good salt would not hamper the car or team too much. I fear the days of the racer with a pack of "Lucky Strikes" rolled up in his tee shirt sleeve and nothing but good hard effort have been over since before I saw Mickey Thompson hit 406. For every era it has taken cubic money and innovation to break the ultimate Land Speed Record. Just sayin'.....
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The bike classes are even worse. Go down to the bike shop, buy the latest model for a fraction of the cost of building one, go race and set records.
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Most people won't know how it was back when Al set the 409 record. We would be on the line ready to make a run at 7am & that had to be over the record to qualify for a record attempt. Then get it back to the pits for service & usually a tire change then back to the line for record runs. Make a down run over the record then turn it around & come back towards Wendover on the return run. If we missed the record or the time window or broke something we would do it all again the next day. On a couple of occasions Anthony & I did an engine change over night & made it to the line the next morning for qualifying. :-P We were a lot younger then.
Al was on the salt Tuesday & Wednesday, hope some of you got to see him, he's 77 now.
Sid.
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Wow Ron! Congratulations to you and your son. That sounds like a dream. Father and son 200 club members. How cool. Sliding sideways at 209+ MPH must have been crazy. Wednesday, my car slid sideways over to the right side of the short track, but managed to stay mostly straight. I think I might have been going over 100 when it happened. I regained control and managed to get my best run in (162.601), but it was still a bit of a scare. Nothing like the excitement that you went through, though. We are going to have to go nearly 260 to set a record in our class (D/GL). It will be years before we can even dream of attempting it. What do you plan on doing for next year? Any big changes to the car? I'm going to look for some pictures of your car.
I would have liked to meet Al Teague. I wish I knew he was there.
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Wow Ron! Congratulations to you and your son. That sounds like a dream. Father and son 200 club members. How cool. Sliding sideways at 209+ MPH must have been crazy. Wednesday, my car slid sideways over to the right side of the short track, but managed to stay mostly straight. I think I might have been going over 100 when it happened. I regained control and managed to get my best run in (162.601), but it was still a bit of a scare. Nothing like the excitement that you went through, though. We are going to have to go nearly 260 to set a record in our class (D/GL). It will be years before we can even dream of attempting it. What do you plan on doing for next year? Any big changes to the car? I'm going to look for some pictures of your car.
I would have liked to meet Al Teague. I wish I knew he was there.
On our long drive back home my son and I talked about what the plan will be for next year. Since we feel the engine was not even working hard a gear change is certainly in order. This was the seventh year working the car and vintage engine combinations it takes time and lots of patience for sure. At the 200 MPH banquet Wednesday evening Al Teague was there I was so happy to meet one of my all time heroes and get a picture taken with him. Another important part of our success was Sid who spent many years helping Al. Sid has so much knowledge its a pleasure knowing him and learning from him.
Ron
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I wish I had known Al was there too. But, the fact of the matter is that he is so humble, he does not announce his presence the way most others in his position do. How many Black Hat holders do you see not wearing their hat????? The man is class...... One of my heroes ever since I went to Bonneville for the first time sooo long ago.
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That was only his 3rd time on the salt since his last pass in Betsy but he'll be be there again when my liner runs, probably next year.
Sid.
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We were a lot younger then.---LOL sent by a recuperating body after a good day in the shop.---Good morning Alieve
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Sorry to hear that the Bockscar got up side down, any info on the condition? Glade to hear John Boy is OK.
Woody, loved your pictures but you didn't stop by our pits, missed seeing you but thanks for the aero suggestions regarding the rear of our car as I think it was the exact right approach.
Rex
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Rex your car looks great. We have been planing on a new lakester for a few years. Now we have to get it done. I feel ok just beat up around the upper arms and ribs. Maybe we can get the Abarth Zagato together for next year.
John
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I rode my bike out on the salt on the 3 courses (long) at the 5 mile. Had to get off and push it back to the pits.(back Pain) I declared dogmatically that no one would exceed 300. It was so ruff I couldn't keep my feet on the pedals. So the first car on the track runs 420 something. WTF. Then Danny Thompson does him one better. I think I'm in some kind of alternate reality. The next morning I was amazed That Poteet ran even faster(blowing his "A" engine as a result). It broke my heart that Danny blew on his back up. I saw cars bounce off the salt getting on the throttle just off the ruff starting line, which they moved down a mile the next day. I saw a tire roll a couple mile down the salt, many spins and a couple crashes. The people that had success, for the most part really knew what they were doing. The Fallieres, not so much. If you were going after a Seth Hammon record, no track, not even for him. He left his car in town. I looked at several new cars that were built to the highest quality. Many were ingenuous.
Great thing about LSR, all the classes. If you can't afford to race against Marlo, George, Danny and others find a class you think you can afford. Even the Summers Bros. had to hold down jobs, even with all the backing they had, so there are just amateurs in this hobby. Trophy and a red hat, that's all. Some are rich and some are down right poor. But your success is defined by the same thing, a record at Bonneville.
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That right we are brothers and sisters in desire---records, hats, Recognition---whatever no matter how you get there--- we have our hearts set on getting it done---get that record--most of us live for that moment we are aware ----we succeeded---- most from a very long journey!! Here's to that feeling!!
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Great post , Racer!
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I know this isn't representative of anybody else' experience, but it may give some indication of how "unsuspended" cars reacted on the long course. The car slipped and slid around until I got past third gear. I can usually get into fourth gear by the one mile, but even short shifting I didn't get there until about the three. Once in fifth it seemed to settle down. Enjoy the ride.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXLmRteIBIs
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Maybe we can get the Abarth Zagato together for next year.
John
YES
If Tom can get his 1 liter SAAB up and running, that would bring 4 cars running I/GT.
This could turn into a Derringer Shoot-out.
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I know this isn't representative of anybody else' experience, but it may give some indication of how "unsuspended" cars reacted on the long course. The car slipped and slid around until I got past third gear. I can usually get into fourth gear by the one mile, but even short shifting I didn't get there until about the three. Once in fifth it seemed to settle down. Enjoy the ride.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXLmRteIBIs
Thanks for posting this Doug, I think this is a good representation of everybody else's experience on the Bonneville Goat Track this year. Pushing Burton's liner was extremely spooky while it crashed through the potholes on the push bar & twice I saw it totally in the air right after he left me.
Sid.
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Wow. I guess that`s the elephant in the room as we start BMST this Saturday. That is not a surface for motorcycles. Yes I do realize that other areas might be better than others, but can they be worked over in four days?
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That is a rough ride! Leaping from one bump to the next, my friend , Ray Forressi, has a Stude pickup with a big GMC 6 in it that has solid suspension and he describes his runs very similar to your video.
I heard a rumor that Seth Hammond is possible putting his lakester up for sale as he does not think the salt will ever be good again. Anybody heard this?
Rex
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Damn that looked brutal!!! No wonder so many cars were spinning!
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I'm just finding out about ALS 409 record being broken ,it was a lot of fun back then but alot of work though ,every two runs pull the pan change rod bearings and the maintenance that went along with it, it was fun SID will tell you when we would go at least 1.5 miles before the starting line and there would be us and Nolan waiting to run,those were the days my friends. Anthony
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Is there a website with photos from 2017 Speedweek?
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http://www.scta-bni.org/sw-race-results.html
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https://bangshift.com/category/general-news/event-coverage/land-speed-races/
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So if anyone is thinking of building a car without suspension (my liner was started that way 20 years ago) take a look at the ride from Wednesday August 16th. It's at the top of our website www.victorymotorsports.org
Yes it's kinda like this :dhorse: Twice :dhorse:
Will need to be working on suspension, or BLM gets a bunch of salt back, or go somewhere else or get the stock car back out???(..... something needs to change....
Or it's an Elmo only car now.....Burton
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Maybe we can get the Abarth Zagato together for next year.
John
YES
If Tom can get his 1 liter SAAB up and running, that would bring 4 cars running I/GT.
This could turn into a Derringer Shoot-out.
YES!!
I second that notion. The more, the merrier. Hope you guys do it.
:cheers:
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We did like Seth and didn't run :oops: we will come back out for world finals
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Rick, what makes it more likely that you'll find a good course at WF? I gotta wonder. . . :?
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Rick, what makes it more likely that you'll find a good course at WF? I gotta wonder. . . :?
You don't know until you show up, and if you don't show up the course will be great
The last 2 days I noticed the salt was getting better.
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Rick, what makes it more likely that you'll find a good course at WF? I gotta wonder. . . :?
Maybe they can find a way to grade it and fill in the holes and knock off the high spots.
I was told BNI didn't use the old heavy grader. Did they try?
Maybe something longer and less heavy?
We have fabricators in landracing that can build something.
JL222
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There's just not enough thickness to put a blade to it, that will likely just peel it off the the brine dirt base. I think the only way you could do anything with it that might work would be a really big power trowel but you'd have to hit it when it's still wet. The fact that it's so thin now means the grooming window is so small between too wet & too dry. If you take a good look at it now you can also see the marks of the drain water direction as it went down the gurgler to the plant, they run across the course. By the marks in the pit area it appeared SCTA used some type of harrow to try & knock it down.
Sid
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There's just not enough thickness to put a blade to it, that will likely just peel it off the the brine dirt base. I think the only way you could do anything with it that might work would be a really big power trowel but you'd have to hit it when it's still wet. The fact that it's so thin now means the grooming window is so small between too wet & too dry. If you take a good look at it now you can also see the marks of the drain water direction as it went down the gurgler to the plant, they run across the course. By the marks in the pit area it appeared SCTA used some type of harrow to try & knock it down.
Sid
Will likely, or maybe, at least try it off course.
I think several Terrazzo grinders set up in a triangle on a platform might work. Not the actual grinders but blades
set up as in lawn mowers but longer, with stones attached. Or maybe just the blades from the grinders would be best as their all ready set up to change stones. Set up on a wheeled platform that can be raised or lowered. grinder linked with belts and powered by a good salvage yard pre-computer motor. Several feet long to hit the high spots and just wide enough to transport with out a permit.
Grinding the high spots filling in the holes an compacting the salt after scraping with their tire compactor.
Terrazzo grinder is a machine with grinding stones used to polish a marble slurry. Used for many commercial floors.
Something different needs to be done. Look at all the turn outs, give ups, spins and crashes in the results.
JL222
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What we need is a Zamboni built for the salt. Seriously -- a converted ice resurfacer has all of the basic equipment that we'd need. Lotsa modifications for the particular task, and reasons why it's wouldn't be practicable, but still -- yup, a Zamboni would be great.
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Road grade it Oct/Nov and let mother nature and next springs laydown do its job. I believe it's the mud between the salt thats making it rough.
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Save the salt is not working! RETURN THE SALT should be the focus. Until there's more salt to work with the conditions will not get better. The salt is so thin now any extreme attempts to making the surface smooth will only remove what little salt remains and leave dirt in its place like Sid wrote.
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It seems the old method of dragging does a good job of knocking down the high spots but doesn't do much to fix the low spots and it's these low spots that make for all these mini pot hole bumps that make the courses and other dragged surfaces rough AF. In my mind I thought something kind of like what JL mentioned but much bigger than a floor grinder since we've got a many miles of track that are hundreds of feet wide. I Googled 'rotary grader' and found this: https://www.sportsturfspecialties.com/laser-grading?lightbox=dataItem-igv3y2li
Click on that and then go to their main page. They do laser guided grading for ball fields mostly it seems but perhaps it's worth a phone call for some consultation. Maybe we need to pony up for a road grader and build a rotary "blade" for it. Prep the courses before the winter rains and hopefully they turn out flat the next year.
But who knows....
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Save the salt is not working! RETURN THE SALT should be the focus. Until there's more salt to work with the conditions will not get better. The salt is so thin now any extreme attempts to making the surface smooth will only remove what little salt remains and leave dirt in its place like Sid wrote.
Amen!! How many Euclids would it take to haul enough salt back from across the road to build a good course? And congrats Ronnie, on your record run.
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If anyone that lives in SoCal has driven the 101 freeway in a 3/4 ton pickup with a utility bed loaded with tools, knows that you did not want to be holding a cup of coffee in your hand without a lid on it during certain stretches of that highway as you ended up wearing the coffee. The truck would be bouncing so hard that you thought the frame was going to break.
Well someone came up with a solution and that was to build a machine to grind the high spots on the freeway, and after that was done bingo a smooth ride. So the machines have been built.
That is what needs to be done at Bonneville and then a machine like a Zamboni in behind the grinder that would gather the loose salt add a tinge of water and fill in the grooves and potholes. But I am afraid the salt is not thick enough for this type of operation.
We just need more salt on the flats, weather by pumping, trucking or conveyor.
Tom G.
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Save the salt is not working! RETURN THE SALT should be the focus. Until there's more salt to work with the conditions will not get better. The salt is so thin now any extreme attempts to making the surface smooth will only remove what little salt remains and leave dirt in its place like Sid wrote.
Return the salt is the focus of Save the Salt. Spent some time talking with Stuart Gosswein about just that. Hopefully some things will happen that force the BLM to return the salt back with govt. funds. That is the focus of the fight currently
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There's just not enough thickness to put a blade to it, that will likely just peel it off the the brine dirt base. I think the only way you could do anything with it that might work would be a really big power trowel but you'd have to hit it when it's still wet. The fact that it's so thin now means the grooming window is so small between too wet & too dry. If you take a good look at it now you can also see the marks of the drain water direction as it went down the gurgler to the plant, they run across the course. By the marks in the pit area it appeared SCTA used some type of harrow to try & knock it down.
Sid
Will likely, or maybe, at least try it off course.
I think several Terrazzo grinders set up in a triangle on a platform might work. Not the actual grinders but blades
set up as in lawn mowers but longer, with stones attached. Or maybe just the blades from the grinders would be best as their all ready set up to change stones. Set up on a wheeled platform that can be raised or lowered. grinder linked with belts and powered by a good salvage yard pre-computer motor. Several feet long to hit the high spots and just wide enough to transport with out a permit.
Grinding the high spots filling in the holes an compacting the salt after scraping with their tire compactor.
Terrazzo grinder is a machine with grinding stones used to polish a marble slurry. Used for many commercial floors.
Something different needs to be done. Look at all the turn outs, give ups, spins and crashes in the results.
JL222
Nothing new
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqvpcX4HoCg
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I agree with Sid --
You gotta have something to grind if you're gonna do it.
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It seems the old method of dragging does a good job of knocking down the high spots but doesn't do much to fix the low spots and it's these low spots that make for all these mini pot hole bumps that make the courses and other dragged surfaces rough AF. In my mind I thought something kind of like what JL mentioned but much bigger than a floor grinder since we've got a many miles of track that are hundreds of feet wide. I Googled 'rotary grader' and found this: https://www.sportsturfspecialties.com/laser-grading?lightbox=dataItem-igv3y2li
Click on that and then go to their main page. They do laser guided grading for ball fields mostly it seems but perhaps it's worth a phone call for some consultation. Maybe we need to pony up for a road grader and build a rotary "blade" for it. Prep the courses before the winter rains and hopefully they turn out flat the next year.
But who knows....
Yea Nathen, something like that.
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It seems the old method of dragging does a good job of knocking down the high spots but doesn't do much to fix the low spots and it's these low spots that make for all these mini pot hole bumps that make the courses and other dragged surfaces rough AF. In my mind I thought something kind of like what JL mentioned but much bigger than a floor grinder since we've got a many miles of track that are hundreds of feet wide. I Googled 'rotary grader' and found this: https://www.sportsturfspecialties.com/laser-grading?lightbox=dataItem-igv3y2li
Click on that and then go to their main page. They do laser guided grading for ball fields mostly it seems but perhaps it's worth a phone call for some consultation. Maybe we need to pony up for a road grader and build a rotary "blade" for it. Prep the courses before the winter rains and hopefully they turn out flat the next year.
But who knows....
Yea Nathan, something like that.
I wasn't posting about a single machine [ that would be nuts] but using the design of the terrazzo machines using several blades [ they have replaceable cutting stones mounted on blades] and mounting them on a long platform for a more even course.
Or cutters as in Ack's post but bigger and more of them, staggered as in lawn tractors to get max coverage.
It always amazes me how someone with no experience grading can say it can't be done. A little salt graded off the top will fill a lot of holes.
Its worth a try with a small machine off course.
JL222
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For the last few years I've gone down & inspected the salt after the water is drained off & it's starting to dry off. Last year the golf-ball-like surface was about a 1&1/2 miles long but thus year it's a good 2/3 of the whole salt flats. Those big dimples are actually created in the brine dirt surface & the thin salt crust has formed to that shape. My suspicions are that what is happening is the thin salt crust actually becomes fluid when covered with water & agitates the divots in the dirt then the salt dries to that.
Next spring I plan to go down earlier with a boat when it's flooded to see what the real story is.
If any of you go back again this year, take the time to scratch around one of those divots & you'll see what I'm talking about.
Sid.
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Sid----get a John boat and call the propster
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SSS, Where is the audio from the Lamm/Cook interview on Bolivia. I went to Meredix.com (never heard of 'em before) and there is no "Listen now" (or whatever) link.
Thots please?
Thanks,
Jim Knapp
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So I talked so someone that has seen a number yearly salt surfaces,, like over 50 years.
He mentioned that this year the salt dried too hot too fast, so the higher pressure ridges were hard dry and the lower areas were still soft, then when the late rains came, the soft was diluted back into the mud, so the holes.
When BNI came to smooth, I heard the drag just chattered over the salt, normally you would have the soft salt to use to smooth and fill just not this year.
And what about all the salt that was blown down to Floating Mountain from Roads End (remember the 'lake' photos)?
I hear it is thick and flat,,,,,,,,
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So I talked so someone that has seen a number yearly salt surfaces,, like over 50 years.
He mentioned that this year the salt dried too hot too fast, so the higher pressure ridges were hard dry and the lower areas were still soft, then when the late rains came, the soft was diluted back into the mud, so the holes.
When BNI came to smooth, I heard the drag just chattered over the salt, normally you would have the soft salt to use to smooth and fill just not this year.
And what about all the salt that was blown down to Floating Mountain from Roads End (remember the 'lake' photos)?
I hear it is thick and flat,,,,,,,,
I know what that chattering is from grading my long driveway, I had to add a lot of weight to stop it.
JL222
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Jim, the audio is archived at the Meridix site on the landracing.com page. I know it ain't easy to find anything in particular - as I remember it isn't sorted by anything other than the day. That is, to find the interview you'll need to have some idea of what time of day it was (and which day) and then go through the thing, fast forwarding your way 'til you get to about the right time, then listen slowly 'til you find it.
Slick it ain't. I admit that I've never really tried it - will see if I can figure it out this weekend.
But anyway -- it should be there. Ya just gotta find it. Sorry for the incornvenience.
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So I talked so someone that has seen a number yearly salt surfaces,, like over 50 years.
He mentioned that this year the salt dried too hot too fast, so the higher pressure ridges were hard dry and the lower areas were still soft, then when the late rains came, the soft was diluted back into the mud, so the holes.
When BNI came to smooth, I heard the drag just chattered over the salt, normally you would have the soft salt to use to smooth and fill just not this year.
And what about all the salt that was blown down to Floating Mountain from Roads End (remember the 'lake' photos)?
I hear it is thick and flat,,,,,,,,
The holes had already formed in the dirt when I was there in June before the rain came.
Sid.
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SSS, Where is the audio from the Lamm/Cook interview on Bolivia. I went to Meredix.com (never heard of 'em before) and there is no "Listen now" (or whatever) link.
Thots please?
Thanks,
Jim Knapp
Thursday - the Bolivia chat runs from 1:21:20 to 1:34:50 (about 13 1/2 minutes).
Mike Cook difficult to hear some of the time.
Apparently four different film crews there.
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Apparently what we need is a giant power trowel.
https://youtu.be/ve7Nd-qs_Mo?t=2m13s
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Hi all, Perhaps a bit off-topic at the moment, but I wanted to say a BIG thanks to all of you. I came with @Distributorguy with a '77 Datsun mini pickup this year. It was our first year in every way. New build, rookie driver, my first time at the flats even. I was blown away by the welcoming we received from staff and racers alike. SpeedWeek is a special event!
We had a great rookie year and are already buying new parts and scheming ways to go faster next year. Looking forward to seeing you all again on the salt God-willing.
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Apparently what we need is a giant power trowel.
https://youtu.be/ve7Nd-qs_Mo?t=2m13s
This could be a new test & tune [the track]! :-o :-D :cheers:
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Save the salt is not working! RETURN THE SALT should be the focus. Until there's more salt to work with the conditions will not get better. The salt is so thin now any extreme attempts to making the surface smooth will only remove what little salt remains and leave dirt in its place like Sid wrote.
:cheers: :cheers:
Sumner
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We might want to work on some kind of land swap and start racing where all the salt is - South of the freeway!
Willi
Kraut Bros.
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Something to ponder
Here in CT. Yale university at one time used an interesting process to make their polo grounds smooth. The equipment used was simple. A length of pipe was attached to a truck with chain then across that pipe was a long section of page fence to keep the fence in line and in shaped at the end of the page fence was another length of pipe. When dragged across the dirt surface this simple device worked like a file it lowered the high spots and deposited the material into the low spots.
That my friends should work on our fragile salt surface. Some experimentation would be in order but I bet with a little weight on the rear end pipe the fence material would do what we need. Then using the dragging equipment now in use as a final pass over the fence leveling system we might actually have something smooth again without removing what little surface is available to work with.
Ronnieroadster
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Something to ponder
Here in CT. Yale university at one time used an interesting process to make their polo grounds smooth. The equipment used was simple. A length of pipe was attached to a truck with chain then across that pipe was a long section of page fence to keep the fence in line and in shaped at the end of the page fence was another length of pipe. When dragged across the dirt surface this simple device worked like a file it lowered the high spots and deposited the material into the low spots.
That my friends should work on our fragile salt surface. Some experimentation would be in order but I bet with a little weight on the rear end pipe the fence material would do what we need. Then using the dragging equipment now in use as a final pass over the fence leveling system we might actually have something smooth again without removing what little surface is available to work with.
Ronnieroadster
Setting up our pits back in the 3rd "alley cat" :roll: row it was quite uneven with holes over an inch deep
so I flipped over my push broom and filled in some holes. Amazing :-o
Later in THE week I purchased a post hole digger and just before we left dug a hole. Guess what its not just mud below the salt but mud mixed with mostly salt, Amazing. I could only dig about 8'' deep before it was to hard to go deeper with out a digging bar, Looked at one in hardware shop but was looking for a lighter weight, Had the same at home and lost my lighter one.
Also hole filled with water as I was digging. Filled hole and headed out.
Not coming back until course is drivable.
Not pre-entering next year but waiting on a reliable source of runs made.
JL222
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The hard piece you ran into is a piece of the crystalline base that I've mentioned before, I couldn't find it earlier this year where I'd found it before & it's certainly interesting to know it's way over there now. I doubt anybody has mapped it's size & location (Intrepid not included) & Dr Bowen looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned it. It's only about an inch thick & being 8" down in the brine dirt is kinda odd.
Maybe I should go back down again this year & measure it. Sure wish I had a way to plot it's location.
Sid.
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I still would like to see the survey that I know the United States Army did before they started flying the B-29's over the salt flats training for the A-Bomb program. I can not believe that they didn't know exactly where they could or could not land those birds! And it would be a documented record of how thick the salt was. No BS, just the facts.
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Here is a picture of the salt surface where we set up out pit. It was lumpy and thin. I don't know what caused the hole in the crust, we didn't do anything to cause it. If the salt conditions were this bad in the 1800s, the Donner Party would have never made it across Bonneville.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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We've been home for a week - now it's finally time for me to get on here and let you know that Nancy and I had a dandy time at SpeedWeek. I hope that you were able to get some satisfaction from landracing.com, too.
First: Thanks to Chris Conrad a/k/a MM. He's saved the streaming day enough times to get a permanent spot on the thank you list, but this time he managed to make things work better than ever - by discovering that things went way more smoothly when we used a digital audio feed 'stead of analog. A quick request to the Rice Brothers and I chased out to the tower and borrowed the needed cable and Chris plugged it in and the damned thing worked straight-on perfect for the rest of the week. Thanks, Milwaukee Midget. We appreciate your help. Again.
Second: Ron and I had a blast trying to keep our listeners up to date on what was going on. It's not all that easy to break off in the middle of (what I thought was) a good joke to report on a car moseying on down the race course at 200-300-400 mph, but we tried. If there was something that you think we should have done differently or better -- don't tell us. Keep it under your hat and then next year you can be cranky at us some more when we do it again. :roll:
Third: We are there at the pleasure of the sanctioning organisations -- SCTA and BNI. They have established rules of conduct to which we adhere (whether personal choice or not) 'cause it's their football so we play by their rules. If you are concerned about what information we offer after an incident (for instance) - please speak to Bill Lattin or Pat McDowell and let them know your concerns. They'll tell us what we can do.
Yeah, I know that this might sound restrictive to some of you - deal with it. We do.
Fourth: Here's one that came out of the blue. We've been offered some harsh criticism for opining about different ways to "fix" or "save" the salt. For the sake of the record and the above paragraph -- it wasn't SCTA/BNI that scolded us. Geez, folks, come on -- like we're supposed to shut the heck up if what we think isn't in perfect alignment with your espoused opinions?
Whatever.
Fifth: How'd you like the new microphone outside the announce trailer -- the one that picked up engine sounds? Yeah, I know -- it picked up Brett and Sherri and Freud and so on, and it did (but wasn't supposed to) pick up printers and the FM comm radios. We'll have that system way better next time, too. Thank Chris one more time for helping with a test mike and stuff.
Thanks to all that helped. didja hear about Ronnie Roadster and how we (sorta, kinda) helped him get a red hat? It was the coolest story of the week if you ask me. Thanks for sharing the fun, Mr.(s) San Giovanni, and -- Nice Hats!!
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Thank you Slim. I had the audio feed running on my desktop computer at work and at home. I set up the salt cam web site to auto refresh every 2 minutes. It was almost like being there without the corrosion.
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We've been home for a week - now it's finally time for me to get on here and let you know that Nancy and I had a dandy time at SpeedWeek. I hope that you were able to get some satisfaction from landracing.com, too.
First: Thanks to Chris Conrad a/k/a MM. He's saved the streaming day enough times to get a permanent spot on the thank you list, but this time he managed to make things work better than ever - by discovering that things went way more smoothly when we used a digital audio feed 'stead of analog. A quick request to the Rice Brothers and I chased out to the tower and borrowed the needed cable and Chris plugged it in and the damned thing worked straight-on perfect for the rest of the week. Thanks, Milwaukee Midget. We appreciate your help. Again.
Second: Ron and I had a blast trying to keep our listeners up to date on what was going on. It's not all that easy to break off in the middle of (what I thought was) a good joke to report on a car moseying on down the race course at 200-300-400 mph, but we tried. If there was something that you think we should have done differently or better -- don't tell us. Keep it under your hat and then next year you can be cranky at us some more when we do it again. :roll:
Third: We are there at the pleasure of the sanctioning organisations -- SCTA and BNI. They have established rules of conduct to which we adhere (whether personal choice or not) 'cause it's their football so we play by their rules. If you are concerned about what information we offer after an incident (for instance) - please speak to Bill Lattin or Pat McDowell and let them know your concerns. They'll tell us what we can do.
Yeah, I know that this might sound restrictive to some of you - deal with it. We do.
Fourth: Here's one that came out of the blue. We've been offered some harsh criticism for opining about different ways to "fix" or "save" the salt. For the sake of the record and the above paragraph -- it wasn't SCTA/BNI that scolded us. Geez, folks, come on -- like we're supposed to shut the heck up if what we think isn't in perfect alignment with your espoused opinions?
Whatever.
Fifth: How'd you like the new microphone outside the announce trailer -- the one that picked up engine sounds? Yeah, I know -- it picked up Brett and Sherri and Freud and so on, and it did (but wasn't supposed to) pick up printers and the FM comm radios. We'll have that system way better next time, too. Thank Chris one more time for helping with a test mike and stuff.
Thanks to all that helped. didja hear about Ronnie Roadster and how we (sorta, kinda) helped him get a red hat? It was the coolest story of the week if you ask me. Thanks for sharing the fun, Mr.(s) San Giovanni, and -- Nice Hats!!
Hope you were able to give/sell that old 23ch CB I donated to the cause to someone in need. I should have donated my new one as it won't transmit! ! :x :x :x
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the sound quality you provided was perfect to me...all the extra voices, bits of chit chat
etc is a big part of what make it better ...it made it WAY better ...as little bits and pieces
of extraneous...but real sounds and voices..banter...made it exceptional
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:cheers:
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Something to ponder
Here in CT. Yale university at one time used an interesting process to make their polo grounds smooth. The equipment used was simple. A length of pipe was attached to a truck with chain then across that pipe was a long section of page fence to keep the fence in line and in shaped at the end of the page fence was another length of pipe. When dragged across the dirt surface this simple device worked like a file it lowered the high spots and deposited the material into the low spots.
That my friends should work on our fragile salt surface. Some experimentation would be in order but I bet with a little weight on the rear end pipe the fence material would do what we need. Then using the dragging equipment now in use as a final pass over the fence leveling system we might actually have something smooth again without removing what little surface is available to work with.
Ronnieroadster
That sounds great. Hope USFRA tries it. Was that chain link fence?
JL222
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As a one time watcher at Bonneville the broadcast is perfect. Thanks for your effort! When I hear them go down the track I can still see it, thanks to you!!
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Here is a picture of the salt surface where we set up out pit. It was lumpy and thin. I don't know what caused the hole in the crust, we didn't do anything to cause it. If the salt conditions were this bad in the 1800s, the Donner Party would have never made it across Bonneville.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
They would have just had an early lunch, Neil! :-o :-D :-o :-D
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Who's for lunch?
Don't need to salt the fresh meat.
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Something to ponder
Here in CT. Yale university at one time used an interesting process to make their polo grounds smooth. The equipment used was simple. A length of pipe was attached to a truck with chain then across that pipe was a long section of page fence to keep the fence in line and in shaped at the end of the page fence was another length of pipe. When dragged across the dirt surface this simple device worked like a file it lowered the high spots and deposited the material into the low spots.
That my friends should work on our fragile salt surface. Some experimentation would be in order but I bet with a little weight on the rear end pipe the fence material would do what we need. Then using the dragging equipment now in use as a final pass over the fence leveling system we might actually have something smooth again without removing what little surface is available to work with.
Ronnieroadster
That sounds great. Hope USFRA tries it. Was that chain link fence?
Yes page fence is chain link square pattern shaped like a diamond
Ronnieroadster
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That is what most baseball infields are drug with too
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I was pretty discouraged, I have seen the salt as rough and as wet before (started in 1962) but never so thin. I am amazed they were able to drag it at all without peeling the whole top layer off. On Saturday the road to the short course just past the long was so thin that by 11:00 AM there was 1/4 mile stretch where there were 6 inch deep pot holes into the underlying mud. There does not appear to be enough salt crust over the mud to act as a buffer between it and the water table.
When we got to the short course I had to use a wet T shirt to get the mud off the race car. After they moved the long course down a mile and bypassed the muddy section there were still giant pot holes on the road by the dyke. Towing the car back and forth was very nerve wracking, we stubbed the duce shell on the street roadster (2 inch ground clearance) while towing and cracked it.
We weren't prepared for the wet track conditions and needed another 500 pounds of weight. We were slipping both rear tires 15 to 20 MPH, needless to say we spun 2 out of 4 tries. Driver said at least it wasn't boring like running on a hard dry track like in 2009/10. We are talking about a 160 MPH Street Roadster here.
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Been back from SW for 10 days now & still things come to mind that I wish I'd paid more attention to. Was a great trip.
Want to say thanks to;
Sid for the advice on what to prepare for
All the racers & volunteers participating
Everyone now posting pics of everything I couldn't possibly take in while there.
SW was a great show even with all of the challenges you faced .
Intend to return, Yeah The Salt can be addictive
Dale
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Slim the radio was great fun,
Lying in bed listening in france late evenings and night, (8 hrs infront here)
Mondays broadcast made me giggle, your duck tone phone rang, i thought for a few seconds (in my half sleepy state) what the hell is a duck doing at bonny ???
Wednesday evening i drifted off to sleep (no not cos your boring..lol) and woke up an hour later to american voices....wondered where id woken up...lol
Keep the cb stuff and other banter, it makes like you are there, especially the starting line and the other time relays,
Is there a way to use a directional microphone to hear the cars louder ?
Thanks again.
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I'd just like to send out a big Pepperoni Bros. Congratulations to Alex Bilogi who put the 750 P-PP record back in the Guzzi camp after a years long battle with the Norton that nabbed it from me. His qualifying pass was 130+, that's movin' it for a V7 Sport, the best I ever did in that class is 123 and change. A well earned victory Sir, again, Congratulations! :cheers:
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I'd just like to send out a big Pepperoni Bros. Congratulations to Alex Bilogi who put the 750 P-PP record back in the Guzzi camp after a years long battle with the Norton that nabbed it from me. His qualifying pass was 130+, that's movin' it for a V7 Sport, the best I ever did in that class is 123 and change. A well earned victory Sir, again, Congratulations! :cheers:
unbelievable really with those cruddy 30mm square slide carbs.
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I'd just like to send out a big Pepperoni Bros. Congratulations to Alex Bilogi who put the 750 P-PP record back in the Guzzi camp after a years long battle with the Norton that nabbed it from me. His qualifying pass was 130+, that's movin' it for a V7 Sport, the best I ever did in that class is 123 and change. A well earned victory Sir, again, Congratulations! :cheers:
unbelievable really with those cruddy 30mm square slide carbs.
More magic from Mike Rich Motorsports!
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One thing to remember is that after that massive rain storm on the Wednesday before Speed Week in 2014, a whole bunch of dirt and silt washed down from the mountains north of the salt. When we went out there to pick everything up, course 1 and the pits were all buried in what was more a less now a giant wash boarded creek bed. Unless all that dirt managed to magically percolate its way down below the original salt surface, I'd wager a guess that the thin salt we're seeing in the pits is actually new salt growth post-2014 and is on top of the creek bed. That's encouraging because that's actually a measurable amount of growth but it's on top of a bunch of dirt that's on top of the rest of the good salt. It's like a massive dirt/salt lasagna when what we want is a dirt/muck pie with a nice thick salt crust on top. I don't think there's a way for us to fix that other than to wait until it does it on it's own and who knows how long that'll take.
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One thing to remember is that after that massive rain storm on the Wednesday before Speed Week in 2014, a whole bunch of dirt and silt washed down from the mountains north of the salt. When we went out there to pick everything up, course 1 and the pits were all buried in what was more a less now a giant wash boarded creek bed. Unless all that dirt managed to magically percolate its way down below the original salt surface, I'd wager a guess that the thin salt we're seeing in the pits is actually new salt growth post-2014 and is on top of the creek bed. That's encouraging because that's actually a measurable amount of growth but it's on top of a bunch of dirt that's on top of the rest of the good salt. It's like a massive dirt/salt lasagna when what we want is a dirt/muck pie with a nice thick salt crust on top. I don't think there's a way for us to fix that other than to wait until it does it on it's own and who knows how long that'll take.
Re: SpeedWeek 2017 - the event!
« Reply #254 on: August 24, 2017, 12:44:34 PM »
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Road grade it Oct/Nov and let mother nature and next springs laydown do its job. I believe it's the mud between the salt thats making it rough.
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Your theories are kinda true-ish but you seem to forget that I've probed down more than 3ft every half mile in a straight line from lands end towards floating mt for more than 8 miles & there is only a small area that has anything other than brine dirt (mud) under the thin salt crust & that is the crystalline growth section that is either shrinking or moving. I didn't find it where it had been the last two years' it's just not there anymore! If you bore a hole in it, it's barely "one inch thick" then you are back into the brine dirt to at least 3ft again.
John Okaly B/BFS #990 is donating a GPS unit to help me plot an accurate location & size on this thing & I plan to go back down before the weather rolls in. If anybody is interested in joining me, send me a pm.
Last year Brenda Bowen said she was taking a drill rig out there to take core samples, did anybody ever see any info from that??
Sid.
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I saw the bore rig and core samples at their motor home(base station) located 1/4 to 1/2 mile from the end of the road. No reports to my knowledge.
DW
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When did that actually happen Dan?
Sid.
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Memory not too good anymore, at a Shoot Out maybe 2013, closer to 2016.
DW
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Last year Brenda Bowen said she was taking a drill rig out there to take core samples, did anybody ever see any info from that??
Sid.
[/quote]
Sid,
Dr. Bowen was on the salt with the drill rig taking the core samples just prior to World of Speed last year. I had a chance to speak with her while I was dragging our courses.
They went to the same sites that one of the past studies had used to take core samples, so they could have cores from the same areas to compare. The trailer for the drill rig had a hole cut in the deck so they could leave the rig on the trailer to take their samples. This helped speed up the process. This was taken just off the Speedweek course #3 about 2 1/2 miles from the starting line. If you can zoom in on the second photo you can barely see the 1/4" of salt that forms the top layer of the salt surface. Dr. Bowen's remark to me was that I had better be careful grooming as there is not much salt on the surface. My response was,"That is what we have been trying to tell everyone for years, the salt is disappearing".
They did take some cores from inside the salduro loop and the salt there, if I remember correctly, was between 6 and 8 inches deep.
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This shows the core taken from that area. If you can enlarge it, you will see the 1/4" of salt in the box that is the top layer of salt. It was so thin that it fell off of the core itself.
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It has been so long since I attached photos that I am making all sorts of mistakes here, sorry about that. By enlarging the photo of the core sample, you can see the larger crystals of salt that are dispersed throughout the mud layers.
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After the cores were removed from the drill, they were placed into the cardboard box with a plastic liner and marked. These students would then perform a series of tests, I did not find out exactly what kind of tests, and then the boxes were loaded into a vehicle and eventually taken back to the university for further evaluation.
I do know that they were unable to get to some of the core locations from the previous study, because the salt crust was too thin and would not support the weight of the truck, trailer and rig.
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....... then the boxes were loaded into a vehicle and eventually taken back to the university for further evaluation.
"further evaluation"? Seriously? :x
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All of Dr. Brenda Bowen's core samples were drilled in fall of 2016. It should also be noted that NOT A SINGLE ONE was drilled on the south side of I-80, so much for any kind of full scientific study of salt inside a valid control volume! Pretty hard to have an inventory of the salt if the primary consumer has relocated a very large percentage of it outside the study area. It may be that the only real study required to determine where all of this salt is going is to look to the south at those tall white piles of granular material.
It is interesting that BLM and Intrepid Potash folks all claim "mass balance" with the return of either 550,000 or 600,000 tons of "waste salt". BLM has advertised the 600,000 figure, Intrepid officially claimed the 550,000 in the Speedweek program, allegedly these figures come from the same instrumentation that records salinity and water flow in the return ditch. I'll leave it to you to decide if either figure makes sense based on physical observation of the track surfaces.
In terms of "mass balance" the BLM uses the claimed mineral removal amount as compared to the returned tonnage. In recent years the Intrepid mineral extraction process has moved away from the traditional surface brine pumped away in collection ditches to deep wells drilled on Intrepid property south of I-80. These mineral quantities are pulled through private property and are not subject to BLM monitoring or royalty payments. Hence the BLM statements that return salt tonnage has exceeded removal. It should be pretty obvious to anyone that has poured any quantity of water onto the salt flats that the dense cemented halite surface dissolves in the water, and that this brine then percolates into the layers below the salt. The current Intrepid wells are then able to recover the brine from the porous sponge like depths below the salt, generating a subsurface flow to the south carrying the minerals to the evaporation basins without lease terms being applied. The various surface barriers have little impact on surface brine when it can flow freely under I-80, Central Pacific Rail, and Highway 40 carrying the minerals dissolved in the water. The water levels and operation of the Intrepid evaporation ponds effectively shelters them from mineral removal by the natural rainfall and surface water coming in from adjacent mountain ranges. The race track surfaces north of I-80 have received large rainfall over the past few years, including huge amounts of collected water flow off the Silver Island Mountains and areas north of the salt flats. All of this water flow onto the salt has increased the amount of dissolved minerals available in the subsurface aquifers, which clearly reduces the available salt to form a usable racing surface.
There were numerous comments from racers this summer suggesting that the salt will get better if left alone. There are two major fallacies in this statement that we should recognize. First is the assumption that there is some natural process that will bring the salt back over time. This is not the case as there is no natural cycle that will move salt from the evaporation ponds south of I-80 back to the race track surface. The only way this salt movement is going to happen is if some industrial scale process like the one operated by Kaiser, Riley, and Intrepid have operated for the last 50 years is implemented. This condition has been created by man made activities, and it will only be corrected by man made actions. Second is the assumption that land speed racing is contributing any significant damage to the salt surface. The amount of salt transported off the surface by our vehicles and shoes is minuscule in comparison to the massive quantities consumed by the mineral leases.
Study the chemical composition of the base minerals in the Bonneville basin, understand the sales quantities leaving the Wendover plant, and make your own comparison to see what "mass balance" is being achieved. I think you will find the return tonnages are small fractions of what is being removed to support the potash and magnesium chloride refining and sales.
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My crystal ball tells me that there's going to be a marked increase in U.S. to Bolivia tourism in the next few years.
Willi
Kraut Bros.
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All of Dr. Brenda Bowen's core samples were drilled in fall of 2016. It should also be noted that NOT A SINGLE ONE was drilled on the south side of I-80, so much for any kind of full scientific study of salt inside a valid control volume! Pretty hard to have an inventory of the salt if the primary consumer has relocated a very large percentage of it outside the study area. It may be that the only real study required to determine where all of this salt is going is to look to the south at those tall white piles of granular material.
There were numerous comments from racers this summer suggesting that the salt will get better if left alone. There are two major fallacies in this statement that we should recognize. First is the assumption that there is some natural process that will bring the salt back over time. This is not the case as there is no natural cycle that will move salt from the evaporation ponds south of I-80 back to the race track surface. The only way this salt movement is going to happen is if some industrial scale process like the one operated by Kaiser, Riley, and Intrepid have operated for the last 50 years is implemented. This condition has been created by man made activities, and it will only be corrected by man made actions. Second is the assumption that land speed racing is contributing any significant damage to the salt surface. The amount of salt transported off the surface by our vehicles and shoes is minuscule in comparison to the massive quantities consumed by the mineral leases.
Study the chemical composition of the base minerals in the Bonneville basin, understand the sales quantities leaving the Wendover plant, and make your own comparison to see what "mass balance" is being achieved. I think you will find the return tonnages are small fractions of what is being removed to support the potash and magnesium chloride refining and sales.
Extraction is extraction is extraction . . . . . . .
The salt situation is equivalent to the big lumber companies saying: Well, we are just doing what our contract allows. BUT, even though our contract does not require it, we planted seedlings to replace the trees.
:dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
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Tom Burkland
THANK YOU for your post its outstanding.
I'm one who would like to see future generations of my family have the opportunity to drive my race car and challenge my records and others on the Bonneville salt flats if things continue the way they are that will never happen! I'm not sending the car out of this country it will become a museum piece or be sold for parts.
My hope is that never happens and they will get the opertunity to race like I have.
RETURN THE SALT
Ronnieroadster
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Thanks Tom B. and RR---Restore to Preserve :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Where is the Serria Club when we need them :-D
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Has anyone written a letter or Tweeted the POTUS. Some are shocked when they get a direct response from him.
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"Some are shocked when they get a direct response from him."
That's why the White House was closed for a few days -- to install a revolving door for the staffers.
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The facts as I see them after years of talking to and reading from smart people like Tom Burkland, Sid, Russ Eyres, Vesco, Lessman etc. and observing the disappearing salt myself since the late 1980s:
1) No business or government entity is interested in bringing back our salt.
2) If we could stop the draining/mining of the salt completely (including sealing underground wells and aquifers) we still would need to lay down 20 Million tons of salt to restore/add a mere 1-inch layer of salt to the current racing surface.
3) #2 is highly unlikely to happen.
Those of you who read the book "Who moved my cheese" (find a video summary on youtube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16hxCB1Dvd4 )
You will just have to replace the word "cheese" with "salt" and start looking elsewhere to keep your sanity.
It's a sad reality, but it IS THE NEW REALITY.
Willi
Kraut Bros.
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...if you like to know the seat belts are fine....check the eyes.....here the founder of Landracing...Jon Amo in the Bockscar..... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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...if you like to know the seat belts are fine....check the eyes.....here the founder of Landracing...Jon Amo in the Bockscar..... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Looks like hes just taking a little nap and is about to wake up.
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...
Those of you who read the book "Who moved my cheese" (find a video summary on youtube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16hxCB1Dvd4 )
You will just have to replace the word "cheese" with "salt" and start looking elsewhere to keep your sanity.
It's a sad reality, but it IS THE NEW REALITY.
Willi
Kraut Bros.
So Mike Cook is Haw? He's found Cheese Station N in Bolivia. Who's following the signs?
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A revealing perspective on the degradation of the Bonneville surface is provided by this quote from August 1949 Hot Rod Magazine, introducing racers to the inaugural SCTA event:
"It is absolutely smooth and level, with a very hard surface (a 20 penny spike can be driven into the ground and bent over without loosening the surface). Surface is pure white salt."
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In that same issue an editor mentioned driving 10+ miles across a hard, smooth salt surface of Laguna Del Perro in New Mexico. But apparently it's no longer in such condition?