Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => 2017 and before: SW & WF => SpeedWeek 2016 => Topic started by: typo41 on June 03, 2016, 10:29:22 AM
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One should always tread lightly:
2nd 2016
Dear SCTA Membership,
With the water finally drying up at the Bonneville Salt Flats. Myself and a group of SCTA members were planning a trip up to Bonneville this weekend to assess the conditions and possibly start wheel packing and grooming courses. I placed a courtesy call to Roxanne Tea with the BLM today to inform her of our plans. Roxanne informed me that as a result of ongoing negative comments, letters and other media generated primarily by Dennis Sullivan, President of the Utah Salt Flats Racing Association (USFRA). The BLM will not allow any racing organizations on the Salt at this time and are in fact holding discussions of cancelling all racing for the 2016 season.
As of the writing of this letter I have tried unsuccessfully to contact Dennis Sullivan. I have spoken with Stuart Gosswein with SEMA and Save the Salt Foundation. Stuart and I will continue to hold discussions with Roxanne in an effort to move forward with a resolution. I June will keep the membership informed as the discussions unfold.
Respectfully,
Bill Lattin
SCTA President
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I guess they don't like being criticized for the years of salt flat abuse and mismanagement. Typical bureaucrat response to criticism.... use what power you have to make lots of folks lives miserable to deflect blame :-o
They think we will all blame Dennis instead of their mismanagement...
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I think the same Utah Senators that supported HCR 8 which:
▸ calls attention to the deterioration of Utah's world-famous Bonneville Salt Flats
17 International Speedway;
18 ▸ strongly urges the Bureau of Land Management to formulate a plan, with the
19 participation of the Utah Alliance, Save the Salt Coalition, and other concerned
20 stakeholders, including Intrepid PotashWendover, LLC, to restore the Bonneville
21 Salt Flats to safe land speed racing conditions;
22 ▸ urges the Bureau of Land Management to improve monitored restoration that will
23 maintain the internationally recognized Bonneville Salt Flats International
24 Speedway in safe high-speed racing conditions; and
25 ▸ urges the United States Congress and Utah's congressional delegation to take action
26 to ensure that the Bonneville Salt Flats International Speedway is restored to safe
27 racing conditions.
... might be interested in seeing how nicely the BLM is behaving.
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Pure spite on the part of the BLM! :x
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Time to write our politicians again explaining what the BLM is threatening to do with our publicly owned land. The BLM evidently thinks it is the boss and unless congress reels then in and says differently, they are.
Ron
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A retired upper management BLM employee told me that the worse thing they could do was to make the front page of the newspaper in a negative manner.
We need the press involved.
Don
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Guess that didn't get sent to the BNI membership, just the SCTA, nothing in my email...
Don is right, preaching to the choir until it is widely disseminated and pressure is brought to bear on the BLM
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"Treading lightly" in this case reminds me of Oliver Twist taking his gruel bowl to the master and pleading ""Please, sir, I want some more."
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I now have a bunch of SCTA people upset on my posting,
My intention was to show the Land Speed community of what can and did happen when you throw rocks at the people that control our playground,,,Bite The Hand That Feeds You,,,,
SCTA is in a difficult position of doing their best to get a handle on this very difficult time, so we need to step back and let them do what can be done.
So if I did the wrong thing with this posting, I am sorry.
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Tony, are you saying your post was fictitious?
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Um no, he's saying this was just sent out last night and might not have been meant to be shared to all the world to see.
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Tony,
I'd have to say that if that is what you were told, you did a big favor to all of us whom are trying to get things ready to run this year.
The sooner the information is out, the better decisions folks can make about what to do next.
So, for as far as I'm concerned you deserve a great big thank you from me.
Thank You
Rouse
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Here's another problem. The SCTA as an organization can only get anywhere with the BLM if they're super, super nice and overly pleasant with them. Lots of please's and yes ma'ams and thank you very much's. I get it - that's how they have to be. The whole honey vs vinegar thing. But as a red blooded, tax paying, combat vet AMERICAN, I have every gawddamn right to say whatever I please about how dissatisfied I am with how shitty the BLM is and so do all of you. So Tony did what anyone concerned about this should and shared it and now he's getting heat because this is going to generate more "negative comments and media" about the BLM - this time at the hand of the "SCTA". These a-holes had it coming. You can't say "boohoo you racer guys are mean so we'll show you and not let you race this year" without consequences. The association can keep being nice and they should - but I'm not on the board and I'm beyond pissed off at these sad excuses of hypocrite beuarocrats who's sole purpose for existing is to preserve OUR LAND for OUR USE.
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I would guess that it is the title of the posting not the content.
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Tony, my apology - I did a bad job of getting a handle on this. Thanks, Nathan.
Chris
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Best way is to educate the voters and media directly and make sure the they can't forget the very simple message. A big billboard in SLC itself and one by Wendover would do wonders... and it isn't that expensive to do. (any billboard graphics folks who are familiar with how to make happen?)
[note: no STS folks associated with this graphic in any way but I like the idea!]
[Image removed here]
I'm sorry to report that landracing.com was asked to remove the image by Save the Salt - Louise Noeth, their publicity person. Her reasoning is that while the Original Poster did disclaim any connection between the image (the one with the url SavetheSalt.org edited in) and Save the Salt the organisation. Nonetheless, the image per se could easily be taken/lifted from this site - without that disclaimer - and circulated. It sure wouldn't help StS gain any goodwill from any party with whom they might discuss or work with to do something positive. And I'm going to choose to remove the image from here to show my interest in remaining positive in support of Save the Salt's efforts.
Jon a/k/a SSS
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The BLM is canceling racing on the salt flats because of negative comments?
Their might be a Roxanne Tea party :-o
JL222
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It has not been cancelled as yet. Lets see what can be worked out. Negative letters do not help.
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Who'da thunk. A bunch of irate citizens write letters to the head office, the local office, the governor, the legislature, the papers, the president, the congress, the dept of interior etc etc accusing them of>>>>>>>> (you fill in the blanks) and of being>>>>> (you fill in the blanks) and the bully says we are going to take our marbles and go home. Geez. Glen, I understand that negative comments might not accomplish a lot but is tough to make a bunch of positive ones. It is a tough deal as we all know. Hard to figure what to do and no matter it will take time. We are all in a hurry since Speedweek is 2 months off. :(
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I like most of you I think have been patiently waiting for change. We have some great volunteers who are working hard on our behalf and I am very thankful for that. But I think it is going to be a long inevitable battle that will devolve as it goes. We need to take every step to we can to resolve this in the best possible way for all involved.
However, if and probably when that fails? Then what? You can tread lightly till the end of time and it may get you nowhere. At some point things have to be said without the sugar coating and names will have to be called out and fingers pointed. Plain and simple.
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Somebody remind me, who does the BLM work for?
Bill
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If you are a business owner or an employee in the private sector when you screw up you are going to hear about. Either your customer or your boss is going to come to you with a complaint. If you don't handle the problem you are going to be out of a job. In the private sector you better be qualified to handle the position, the people, the negativity and have an understanding of the field you are involved. Only in government do we have people that are none of these things. Their biggest skill is to survive and rise within the system. Unfortunately that system rarely rewards people doing a good job, but rewards people for being the best at playing the game.
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If there is a speed week you can bet the BLM guidelines will be more STRICTLY enforced than in the past so you better read them and heed them! :x
It appears that bullying is quite the norm at the federal level! :-(
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I am guessing someone at the BLM is calling for a "safe place" they can go and not be criticized, challenged or ridiculed in - Seems to be the latest trend in society these days.
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It has been requested that this topic be removed as to slow down the storm
OK moderator(s) your call. Do you/we back down from the shit storm that is approaching?
And for me, no one got it. The postings on how to again go after BLM with this topic is the same as the postings from before. You guys are not seeing the bigger picture. Let things lie.
It is their sand (salt) box.
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The key word here is Government. When dealing with them expect to have things take 5 times longer than the private sector. It is just a fact of life.
Example, a friend is trying to get a garage built at his house. Building department says it will take over a year to be approved, but if he would like to spend $6500 extra, it can be done in 6 months, and if he is really in a hurry $14,000 will get it done in 3 months.
When dealing with them you need more than patience, you need to be a Saint, or a multi millionaire.
Tom G.
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Is it easier to ask forgiveness than permission?
What about all of the Wendover businesses that need Speed Week to pay the bills? Similar to the local Sturgis business need the rally? Do they have a voice? Are they helping with this fight? I believe they have just as much right as the racers.
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Tony, I disagree that this should be removed. If the BLM is holding SpeedWeek Hostage, do we give in and pay the ransom... only say positive things about them..... sounds like Montana again...
Or do we elevate the problem to their bosses and their boss's boss.
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It is their sand (salt) box.
THERE ISN'T ANY SALT LEFT.
Ron
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Ron...It's not their sandbox, the BLM works for us..the tax payer and I think it's about time we as a people remind them of this little fact.
Bill
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Via SCTA's Facebook page:
Message from the SCTA President / Race Director
Attention all SCTA & BNI Members sharing & posting a copy of a SCTA Letter that went out to the SCTA Members yesterday:
The intention of this letter was NOT to be posted on any type of Social Media, Forums or Blogs. It was an update to our members in regards to our delayed pre-trip plans and why.
This is a VERY TOUCHY subject and we know that most of the people posting this letter have good intentions and it is about saving the salt. But right now we respectively ask that you take any pics or posts down in regards to this letter and do not include the SCTA, BNI or any of our literature when posting negatively in regards to this matter. The SCTA/BNI will prepare their own media releases as the board sees fit.
On another note: In NO WAY is this Roxanne Tea's fault - Please delete all existing negative posts and please do not post anything negative about her in the future. She has done nothing but communicate with the SCTA & BNI Board in a very professional manner. None of this is her fault.
The communication is on going and we will update the membership as soon as we have any news.
Thank You,
Bill Lattin
SCTA President / Race Director
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Hot Rod Magazine;
http://www.hotrod.com/news/1606-blm-threatens-no-racing-at-bonneville-due-negative-comments-according-to-scta/ (http://www.hotrod.com/news/1606-blm-threatens-no-racing-at-bonneville-due-negative-comments-according-to-scta/)
Bill Lattin, president of the Southern California Timing Association (SCTA), has informed its members that Roxanne Tea, Bureau of Land Management (BLM) outdoor recreation planner, has said there will be no racing organizations on the salt, “due to negative comments, letters, and other media.” The BLM has been criticized for its management of salt reclamation from mining, specifically how much salt should be returned to the Salt Flats after minerals have been extracted. The SCTA has kept records of the depth of the salt surface for more than 50 years showing there were times when the salt was more than 1-foot thick. There are now sections where the salt has completely receded and mud is visible. The racing surface has degraded significantly over the last decade, exacerbated by extended periods of rain that drain through the salt and into the ground below, causing muddy conditions unsuitable for racing.
Utah Governor Gary Herbert has gone so far as to say, “The Bonneville Salt Flats are not only severely damaged but are, in fact, approaching ruin.” More recently, the Utah House of Representatives passed a bill urging the BLM to make racing safe again.
The main issue has been mining company Intrepid Potash’s removal and replenishment of salt they pull minerals out of. Intrepid leases part of the Salt Flats from the BLM for its mining operations. Too little of the removed salt is returned, resulting in the thinning conditions. Bonneville’s underground aquifers are also showing declining salinity. The Bonneville Nationals has been canceled in 2014 and 2015, so racers were hoping that 2016 would see a return to racing.
It would seem that Roxanne Tea and the BLM are now under a more harsh spotlight than in previous years as conditions at the Salt Flats continue to deteriorate, and refusing the racers’ access appears to be in retaliation from pressure to do more to preserve the national monument. We have called Tea to get some clarification on the matter, but have yet to hear back. When HOT ROD gets more info, we will pass it along. Bill Lattin’s letter to the SCTA members can be seen below.
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Well now the cat is REALLY out of the bag.
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Finally a little international exposure from a recognized source...
Lattin does not want us to shoot the messenger... I guess we will see what the messenger tells Hot Rod...
She might want to consult her management prior to that response... it is starting to get a little interesting...
:cheers:
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This kind of publicity and inquiry by Hot Rod can only help. I would hope that the Save the Salt folks, SCTA, USFRA, SEMA, Utah political folks, and the city of Wendover can find a way to parlay this into some REAL resolution. We need to keep our focus on the goal - preservation of the Bonneville international Speedway for future events. Missing another year would be painful, but if the result was tangible action that actually returned some of the surface that is so obviously gone, it would be a good deal.
Instead of bitching about civil servants and bureaucracy (as if that has ever helped) we ALL need to contact our representatives in one of the above-named organizations, and urge them to use this opportunity and keep the visibility hightened. The SCTA and USFRA can show 50+ years of consistent effective stewardship to tread lightly and safely on the salt to preserve it for everyone, not just the racers. Can the BLM do that?
PLEASE don't let this opportunity die - the ONLY thing that works every time is effective public relations, and the BLM, in my opinion has handed us all a golden opportunity. Oh sure, they may try to spin things and say they didn't really tell Bill that, or didn't really mean that, but every hour they don't return his or Hot Rod's phone calls is evidence that they did.
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Who are we dealing with? .....here we are:
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Ironic, wouldn't you say? :?
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Simply put the BLM statement is a threat which no matter what the outcome will certainly back fire on them. Hiding this information from the public that owns these lands would be a huge mistake. The BLM are the care takers for our lands they work for all of us who are citizens of this great country. Were their boss not the other way around this attempt to silence those who are pointing out they are not doing their job is not very smart the way I see things. :x
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Golly, gee, here's a situation where the Head Handlebar Holder is the one that's gotta decide what to do. Here's some of what I've got going. . .
I got a copy of the BLattin letter this morning in a mass mailing from a racer - not a regular if a member at all of this site, by the way. I realized what a firestorm it could start - and sent off a note to Bill asking permission to post it. I won't post without his okay since here he's the writer of the letter (as well as SCTA pres), so when I saw the thing put up on this topic - I waited for the shat to hit the fin, which it sure as heck did.
You folks are welcome to post stuff here and you know the ground rules (you had to read and agree, or at least agree), to become a member. I don't know if it covers this particular topic, though -- posting SCTA letters that appear make the BLM out to be Satan's second cousin twice removed, although reading all of the letter you can see that Bill asked us (in so many words) to let him do what he could to work around the instant issue.
So, in other words, I wish the letter didn't get posted at least without Bill's say-so. But - it did, and, well, just like if a shat storm gets started -- you sure as heck can't take back what's already out there even if you wanted to do so. I will say, though, that I'd sure like to respect Bill's request that we don't make it any harder on him than we can possibly avoid doing.
Further Handlebar Holder sayeth not.
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Sort of like putting a baby back where it came from.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Not to get too much into politics, most mid-level Government positions are appointed rather that elected. They are in those positions for who they know instead of what they know and what they can do. Enough said.
The term "Civil Servant" is certainly not the case, Self-serving would be a more appropriate term. Boo Hoo, the BLM received some negative press, so be it! Do your JOB!
You work for us, and the Salt (what's left) belongs to us also. The BLM is there to manage the land, says it right in their name.
Tom
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Sort of like putting a baby back where it came from.
Doug cheers cheers cheers
for sure would have dire consequences for Mother and baby!!!
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You're in a tough spot Slim. But I thought "Satans second cousin twice removed" was very tactful. Not quite the words I would have used.
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WOW---What we have ---is a sign of the times!!
As President of SCTA Bill L. was trying to keep I assume Club Reps informed an in the loop so to speak
Apparently "various informed" started posting to social media
Slim did the "Traditional" very correct thing---tried to get to the source of the letter before publishing it
The "Various Informed" are not aware or informed of "Protocol", of how organizations have to negotiate when the "finial negotiators" are not able to sit down across from one another.
There should be a HUGE responsibility assumed by anyone who receives a note or letter from a representative trying to keep them "in the loop"--
that responsibility is to contact the writer/representative and ASK if you can pass the info ON!!
SSS did just that!
SSS thanks for understanding and acting on the best interest of the whole. YMMV
Latin has asked others to take their post down--your call I will take my two comments down
Also you might consider Locking this topic
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Thanks, Bill. Good idea. I haven't removed anything here - but agree that it's time to shut off this train of discussion, if only here on landracing.com.
Let's try to help Lattin and all of us get racing again soonest.
Slim