Landracing Forum

Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: NathanStewart on October 09, 2015, 03:52:25 PM

Title: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: NathanStewart on October 09, 2015, 03:52:25 PM
Can anyone either post a picture or give me a car number of a non-time only door slammer that has the exhaust exiting the hood?  A proposed rule change suggests that there is a trend of cars showing up with the exhaust coming out the hood.  I've been to all SCTA events this year (minus the Mile event) and last year and the year before that and I can only think of one car that has the exhaust exiting the "hood" area but there must be multiple if this is a trend.  One interesting thing though is that the Altered rules say that the exhaust can exit anywhere on the body except the roof - so anywhere on the body would include the hood, right? 

Anyways, maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention to notice all the door slammers with hood exiting exhausts.  I'm hoping you guys can show me some. 
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: manta22 on October 09, 2015, 04:48:21 PM
"...the exhaust coming out the hood."

That sounds like a recipe for carbon monoxide poisoning. Why would anyone do that?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: NathanStewart on October 09, 2015, 05:27:24 PM
Saying just "exhaust coming out the hood" leaves a lot to interpret/imagine I guess.  How about this as an example: a Comp Coupe or Mod Sports car with single exhaust exiting the back of a hood scoop that's pointed away from the driver's compartment thus preventing any CO poisoning.  Keep in mind that streamlining is allowed up to and including the cowl on this type of car.  The attached image shows an example of what I'm trying to describe (and is the one car I can think of that has "hood exiting exhaust").  

Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on October 09, 2015, 07:32:11 PM
Geez - I don't want to beat up on the owner, but like Neil, I question the wisdom.

Race cars are loud enough without having to direct the audio pulses directly to ear level - even on the other side of the windshield.

Motor or turbo grenades, exhaust breaks the windshield - crazier things have happened.

Good luck wording this one without creating more confusion.
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: jdincau on October 09, 2015, 07:38:04 PM
Nathan,
     Why not PM the originator of the change request?
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: hotrod on October 09, 2015, 07:42:34 PM
The one that comes to mind is a black turbocharged Buick. I can't remember the number but he has been running for a couple years and I have a picture of him at speed and you can clearly see the hot exhaust plume going up and over the top of the car. At least at speed the exhaust goes up more or less parallel with the windshield and does not blow back into the cowl area.

I will try to find the shot when I get home this weekend.
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: gkabbt on October 09, 2015, 08:32:02 PM
The Buick you are referring is the old number 80 C/BFALT and belonged to Villa and Courtney Hizer from Rome, GA.
It currently resides in NC with Paul Powell who was the engine builder for Courtney for quite a few years.
I just saw this car in the trailer last weekend and the right side of the windshield does have distortions from the exhaust out of the hood.

Here is a pic of Villa, Courtney and the Buick:

(https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/.D0iLs5SSQi8evrRueWWWg--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NDEyO3E9OTU7dz02MDA-/http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/public/sites/274/assets/7HQC_Villa___Courtney_Bonneville_race_car_001.jpg)

Pic of the exhaust:

(http://paulpowellperformance.com/images/Front%20Side1.JPG)

After Courtney's passing, the team continued in his honor and is now called Hizer Racing Spirit.
They campaign the new number 80 Bonneville record holding B/BGMS Berkley.

(http://paulpowellperformance.com/Pictures/1186197_10202065094969125_1811087119_n.jpg)

Hope this helps,
Gregg
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: floydjer on October 12, 2015, 08:50:05 AM
Plus, Factor in the wacky effect on aero.
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: NathanStewart on October 12, 2015, 01:09:27 PM
Nathan,
     Why not PM the originator of the change request?

Seems like things have been slow here lately.  Thought I'd get some discussion going.
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: Stainless1 on October 12, 2015, 10:57:04 PM
It seems to me that it would be as good a place as any to exit the front of the car.  I would guess better than out the side where the exhaust plume would be like dragging a 4x4 through the air.
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: wobblywalrus on October 12, 2015, 11:23:04 PM
Any engine problem resulting in oil, water, smoke, or all of these coming out of the pipe can cause the driver to not see where they are going.  This is especially true if they go sideways and the exhaust plume crosses the windshield.
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: Stainless1 on October 12, 2015, 11:58:56 PM
Actually he will be the first one to know he has a problem... and if it is that bad, you just hold the wheel straight and slow to a stop.... not a lot to run into... of course people still hit the only stuff out there every quarter mile.

Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: dw230 on October 13, 2015, 01:59:14 PM
A face full of fire will cause the driver to question the melting point of Lexan.

DW
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: NathanStewart on October 13, 2015, 03:22:43 PM
All good safety points but none of which touch on the reason for the rule change: to keep cars looking like cars and not like diesel trucks.  There's no mention of exhaust exiting restrictions in CC or MS in the rule book but there are for ALT and GC (allowed in ALT, not allowed in GC).  Seems like instead of a blanket "not allowed" rule for all door slammers, it'd make more sense to establish some guidelines for the classes that don't specifically state one way or the other.  Or, just assume that since there's no mention in CC or MS that there's no restriction.

Also, FWIW, I tuned the red Z that I posted pics of.  With a nice long standing flame after the end of a WOT dyno pull, there's no sign of any heat damage to the car whatsoever.  You guys act like it's pointed at the drivers face or something.  The exhaust is directed up and over the top of the car. 
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: dw230 on October 13, 2015, 08:21:54 PM
For aero?

DW
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: Stainless1 on October 13, 2015, 09:30:33 PM
That would be my guess Dan, but what do I know... could it generate down force, to kill lift? 
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: NathanStewart on October 14, 2015, 11:43:57 AM
Not for aero.  The builder decided that he wanted to put the turbo up into the air stream and having it up above the motor means the simplest exhaust exit is out the back of the hood scoop.  

(http://www.ahrf.com/images/ahrf/gallery/always-puzzled/JMC_5530_Steve-Tillack-Z-Car-15.jpg)

It's different and I don't know that you gain anything other than having a really short exhaust and rule change proposals written against you but aren't these differences what make our sport unique?  Plus this falls into the cowl and forward area that can be streamlined for MS.  The builder has said that if he's forced to re-route the exhaust that he'll make it exit out the side of the car or something and will stick faux exhaust pipes coming out the back of the scoop for aero purposes.   :-D  
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: Joe Timney on January 22, 2016, 07:23:17 AM
My view of Courtney's car every pass at Maxton.
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: dw230 on January 22, 2016, 01:36:15 PM
Joe,

Do you remember if there was any windshield damage over a period of time on Courtney's Buick? I never looked until this subject came up.

DW
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: gkabbt on January 22, 2016, 04:36:44 PM
Dan,

See my post #6 on the 1st page in this thread. As I posted then, When I saw the car back at the 1st of October, I did see some distortion on the right side of the windshield. It was not a melted blob, just kind of wavy like you would expect from heat. I'll see if I can get a picture next time I'm at Paul's shop.

Joe,

You always had the best seat in the house! REALLY COOL picture.

Gregg
Title: Re: Exhaust exiting hood on door slammer?
Post by: Joe Timney on January 23, 2016, 09:01:08 AM
Dan,
There wasn't any marks on the window shield. I did have a conversation with Courtney about my safety concerns about the design...not a fan!