Landracing Forum
Loring Timing Association (Maine) => Loring (AFB) land speed venue => Topic started by: Bullfrog on September 17, 2015, 03:37:02 PM
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Mid morning on Sunday at the 2015 Harvest Event I decided to change the front sprocket on my bike. A slight tail wind had kicked up and I thought adding a tooth to the front sprocket might gain a few more MPH. The last run was a new personal best and a record for the class (A-CG750) at 130+. I loosened up the rear wheel and backed off the tension bolts then gave the rear wheel a boot to loosen the chain to fit the larger sprocket. Imagine my shock when the side plate for the master clip fell onto the pavement! The clip was nowhere to be found, lost on the last run...??? I had checked it at the start of the day when I went over the safety checks and all was fine. I normally wrap a couple laps of safety wire around the clip to hold it in place but always thought it wasn't really necessary as I have never lost a master clip in 40 years of motorcycling on the road. This was a new DID chain and master link that had about 20 passes. I have heard of people also gluing the master clip on with silicone as well as the safety wire. I just wanted to get a feel for what others have done. I don't want to ever loose a chain at speed and will do whatever is needed to prevent a failure in the future. I truly feel that my guardian angel must have working on the bike with me that Sunday morning!!!
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I prefer rivet links, is there one available for your chain? congrats, Dean
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I always clean the linkplate and clip with Shellite (Acetone), then apply Silicon. "Never" had a problem :-),,,
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I always clean the linkplate and clip with Shellite (Acetone), then apply Silicon. "Never" had a problem :-),,,
Ditto
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I'm using the original xl size 630 chain. I haven't looked for a riveted link but that might be an option to look into. Thanks! When you guys use the silicone to secure the clip do you also include the safety wire under or just the silicone??
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I'm using the original xl size 630 chain. I haven't looked for a riveted link but that might be an option to look into. Thanks! When you guys use the silicone to secure the clip do you also include the safety wire under or just the silicone??
both
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Any pictures of this?
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I'm using the original xl size 630 chain. I haven't looked for a riveted link but that might be an option to look into. Thanks! When you guys use the silicone to secure the clip do you also include the safety wire under or just the silicone??
just the silicon, and always make sure that the chain is correctly adjusted, :-),, If chain is too loose, shock (whipping) on the bottom run can dislodge the clip when the link comes into contact with the rear sprocket,,,
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I always lock wire and silicone, for some reason just lock wire will snap.
Ray.
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I can't picture how a clip could be safety-wired? :?
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I never had a problem with the clips...
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Re: missing master link clip!
« Reply #10 on: Today at 10:43:00 AM »
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I never had a problem with the clips...
I never had a problem either..... until the last race! It was missing when I got back to my pit area, a wonder the chain hadn't come off!
To secure the clip I have been wrapping a piece of safety wire around the clip and side plate with two loops then twisting on the outside with about a quarter of an inch of twist and bent over to lay flat. I guess I will also give the silicone a try in addition to this. I keep the chain tightened to the specs in my Suzuki shop manual. Thanks for all the help!!
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Maybe I'm in a dense mood this morning -- but doesn't the safety wire therefore end up going past the side plate's INSIDE surface? And doesn't that mean the wire wears off from where it touches the sprocket teeth during operation? Please explain so I can get back to work. . . :?
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There is a gap (at least on my 630 chain) between the the adjacent links so it comes close but doesn't come in contact with the sprocket on the inside.
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As long as the inside plates are thicker than the wire and the wire lays flat. Thanks, I was puzzling about that when the lights suddenly went on! :-o :-D :-D
Pete
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One of my first years racing I had a fellow racer notice I was running master links and demanded I safety wire the clip. So I gave him the safety wire and he did it. And after that run the wire was missing. So I rewired it, and after that run it was missing. So I rewired it and after that run it was missing. I stopped wiring them at that point (I now run rivet links)
I would suspect that the clip wasnt fully seated, crap under it, etc. It happens, we have all done it....well at least I have! Its also encouraged by most chain makers to use new spring clips every time you have a chain apart, yet how many of us do that? :-D Exaclty, we look around on the ground, find the clip and put it on.
Oh, and remember to put the open part of the clip oppisite the direction of travel
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Looking at the assembled chain on my bike, it doesn't appear that wrapping safety wire around the outer plate and clip would accomplish much. The installed clip is narrower than the plate, so the wire wouldn't hold the clip "closed". And the wire could easily move toward a pin, where a sprocket tooth could hit it.
A problem I've had in recent years is assuring that a clip is truly seated in the pin grooves of a new master link. I don't know if it's true of all X-ring and O-ring chains, but the last new X-ring master link I installed (Japanese 520 X-ring chain) had a press fit of the plate onto the pins. I had to make a pressing fixture- piece of 1/4" aluminum with two clearance holes for the pins- to place over the plate, then use a C-clamp to press the plate fully in place. Even then, there was no "wiggle room" for the cliip- it had to be tightly against the plate to seat in its grooves. This was in ideal working conditions- comfortable shop, no time constraints, etc.
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Years ago I "discovered" press fit master link side plates when I installed a new Tsubaki chain late the night before we were to leave on an extended road trip. I ground down one jaw on a pair of Vice Grips to fit between the pins so I could squeeze it on enough for the clip to seat.
Ed
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I run chains with a master link. I have a chain kit and press the plate and make sure the clip seats good. If I think about it before i lube the chain I Silicone it, I double safety wire it. I havent lost a clip since I started safety wiring, I did before. :roll:
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(http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af300/daviddunfey/100_2737_zps7rezd8nz.jpg) (http://s1017.photobucket.com/user/daviddunfey/media/100_2737_zps7rezd8nz.jpg.html)
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I don't know about all clip type master links, but way back when, a guy who raced motocross showed me that most master link clips are not flat, they have an arc in them that is intended to be placed toward the link plate. Now before installing the clip, I put them on a flat surface and make sure I have the bend toward the link plate. All the DID and RK chains I have used have the arc'd clip.
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I don't know about all clip type master links, but way back when, a guy who raced motocross showed me that most master link clips are not flat, they have an arc in them that is intended to be placed toward the link plate. Now before installing the clip, I put them on a flat surface and make sure I have the bend toward the link plate. All the DID and RK chains I have used have the arc'd clip.
The chain and master link that I lost the clip on is a DID brand. I haven't ever noticed that they were arced and had to be mounted with the arc toward the side plate. That's good to know! Thanks for the info, I will always check for this in the future!
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I don't know about all clip type master links, but way back when, a guy who raced motocross showed me that most master link clips are not flat, they have an arc in them that is intended to be placed toward the link plate. Now before installing the clip, I put them on a flat surface and make sure I have the bend toward the link plate. All the DID and RK chains I have used have the arc'd clip.
The chain and master link that I lost the clip on is a DID brand. I haven't ever noticed that they were arced and had to be mounted with the arc toward the side plate. That's good to know! Thanks for the info, I will always check for this in the future!
It's the same as snap rings, both internal and external. The way they are made is a punch die operation, punching them out of a flat sheet. The process creates a slightly cupped form with the edges on one side sharp and the other rounded. The sharp edges should always go against the shoulder of the groove away from the part they are retaining.
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I've ran nitro burning motorcycles for many years on the dragstrip and have never had issues with masterlinks. I've always felt that was due to making sure sprocket alignment was as close as you have the technology to get it. I found a fine laser and gauge blocks worked best. Second thing is to properly set up tension on the chain. Someone had posted earlier that too loose a chain would whip climbing on the sprocket and cause undo stress on the link. I believe that. Thirdly is to change out your chain and master link often. A new chain is the most efficient way to transfer horsepower to the rear wheel. Horsepower can cost so much why would you give it away with an old chain? Lastly size the chain appropriately for the horsepower application. I once set up a new clutch to improve 60 ft times and started stretching 530 chains 4 links long in one pass! I went to a 630 and problem went away and gained .20 on my 60 ft times. I have never seen anyone going real fast use wire on a link. Do you know how to engineer the clip better than the engineers who designed it? Turning the clip with the sharp edge out is the right way to put it on just like a retaining ring. Don't stress the clip by twisting it or spreading it when installing. Putting a dab of silicone on the outside is fine if it makes you fell better. I've seen them come off with silicone on them.
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The other thing I do is use calipers to measure the width of the link next to the one with the master link. I them press on the plate on the master link to obtain the same dimension i.e. not too loose and not too tight.
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... press on the plate on the master link to obtain the same dimension i.e. not too loose and not too tight...
The press-fit master link I mentioned in my post above had shouldered pins to correctly locate the plate.
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When vintage road racing up here in Canada we have to lock wire the clip but you will loose the lock wire every time when you come in unless you put a dab of silicone on a well.