Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: Sumner on August 06, 2015, 06:04:49 PM
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I'm not trying to second guess where the courses have been laid out in the past and probably for this year also but would like input from anyone that is involved with this with either SCTA/BNI or USFRA.
I'm going to post a couple images from print screens I did today on Google that are suppose to be 2015 imagery but don't know from when in 2015.
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/2015-bville-1.jpg)
To me the salt looks like it might be better to the west of the two courses but maybe the image isn't representative of what the actual conditions are. Not room over there for two course but I'd rather have one long course and longer lines than no long courses. Moving west might put the pits to the east side and maybe a short course past them or just to the east of them. Move the pits down near the start line would mean way less spectator viewing but there again if there was racing I feel that could suffer.
Another image...
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/2015-bville-2.jpg)
of the same area.
and ...
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/2015-bville-3.jpg)
... the one above shows the end of the courses and the color of the salt vs. the salt on the other side of Floating Mountain (Island).
The following two are self-explanatory...
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/2015-bville-4.jpg)
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/2015-bville-5.jpg)
Maybe get Intrepid to pump from the other side of Floating Mt. to our side or else sooner or later we need to seriously look at that area since they will continue to have one study after another until they finally have the one that says, 'yep the salt is gone, can you imagine that',
Sum
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The Google imagery is at least two years old as it shows the airliner crossing the long course at about the 4 mile that we all noticed and commented about on this board.
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The Google imagery is at least two years old as it shows the airliner crossing the long course at about the 4 mile that we all noticed and commented about on this board.
I do remember that now also but still wonder if the salt might be better a bit further west where it is much whiter and more like what you see on the other side of Floating Mountain?
Sum
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At WOS last year we were way farther west than usual.
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At WOS last year we were way farther west than usual.
Thanks, that is interesting,
Sum
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I think that difference in color has more to do with moisture content of the salt than thickness. The darker looks like slushy snow, and I suspect that is the issue it is still pretty wet, where the thinner stuff to the west has been baked dry and is whiter due to that not thickness.
It would be fun to have access to multi spectral imaging like IR imaging to see differences in surface temps.
The higher edges of the basin should dry first as the last of the surface flooding dries up.
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Am I missing something. Why is no one talking about the area north of floating mountain!! :?javascript:void(0);
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Access is not easy as there is no road plus the bombing in the area on the north side.
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Latest IR is july 15
http://landsatlook.usgs.gov/viewer.html
you can subscribe and get more receint images
Go back in time and see the changes, Feb/ March shows the mud quite well
remember this is surface reflectivity and only shows the very surface so dry salt in a thin layer on mud will look like real salt
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I think that difference in color has more to do with moisture content of the salt than thickness. The darker looks like slushy snow, and I suspect that is the issue it is still pretty wet, where the thinner stuff to the west has been baked dry and is whiter due to that not thickness.
It would be fun to have access to multi spectral imaging like IR imaging to see differences in surface temps.
The higher edges of the basin should dry first as the last of the surface flooding dries up.
Hot Rod, you are wrong.
Those pics are current, the dark areas are where I tested on monday & the white is actually the remaining wetter salt flow draining to Intrepid's pumps & will not support a vehicle. Somebody else had sunk out there & I made a quick test run in my van & got out while I could.
See the clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe8de-Zhb6Q&feature=youtu.be
Sid.
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Access is not easy as there is no road plus the bombing in the area on the north side.
Glen, I am wondering how long those unexploded bombs have laid in the salt brine? When was the last time the military used that area for a bombing range?
If the salt has the same effect on the unexploded bombs that it has on our race cars, there can not be much left of them.
John
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Would I be correct that all of the racing organisations/promoters with upcoming meetings/record attempts on the Bonneville SF are working together, so that, whether it is a multiple entry event or an individual private attempt or an invitational for the World's fastest, any and all available salt is going to be used sensibly and sensitively - so that each group gets their event run during 2015?
Who will control any spectators?
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kiwi -
I was not talking about your pictures but Sumners post above and those old aerial photos.
They were actually shot over a year ago (see Jet plane captured mid course which was noted here on the forum a couple years ago, and old tire tracks from speed week track layout - means they were shot after august in late summer )
Copyright date is not the date the images were taken but when they were published and google constantly updates as any new image or update in the thousands of images used in a map area would require an updated copyright date.
He noted the bright white edges which we all know is the thinnest salt out there and being on the higher edge of the "bowl" tends to dry first.
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Malcolm.........Mike Cook Jr. is usually involved in course preparation. I don't know the details, but he seems to be involved with know-how and equipment, as well as running his own event, the SHOOT-OUT.
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Mike Cook Sr. has the shoot out, Jr. Is a worker and does course prep.
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Thanks, Glen...................and 2 Cooks are better than one :wink:
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There actually is a road, Silver Island Loop Road, that runs from the Bend in the Road out pass the Floating Mountain and within about 2 miles of what appears to be good salt. My guess is that it is not ready for several thousand cars to drive on it but the salt looks good. Glen what is the story about the bombing etc. Is there unexploded ordinance in that area or just bomb craters or both?
Rex
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I could be wrong but I think the ordinance range is south of the interstate. There's been years where I'd be working out on course 3 or 4 and you could hear the jets and bomb drops. Actually, I know for sure the range is south of the interstate as I've driven parallel to it on an offroad excursion on my to wendover once and stopped and read a warning sign but I can't say for sure that they don't also bomb to the north of the hwy.
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There is an old range on the south side of the evaporation ponds beyond the hot springs , everything out there is quite old
Talked to the ordinance retrieval guys in the bar a few times, our tracks are not free of it , but its minimal and swept pretty regular
they would be good to ask about conditions out further , both what the salt is like and hazards
Road out along the silver mountains is often impassable after rain, the saddle area is a broad soft silt or clay, last time we crossed it we couldnt have stopped or turned around if we wanted once we started we were committed , that was 2013 waiting for a dry area for Cooks
west side of the mountains have a better road but it had some big washouts and i hear thats not uncommon after any rain
any guesses how we fill in time waiting to race ;)
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Beyond Floating Mountain is Eagle Range & that is the gunnery range for Hill AFB. On the south side of I-80 is Wendover Bombing Range & that runs from Blue Lake all the way out to Knols on I-80 & from there it becomes Dugway Proving ground.
Sid.
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I have to agree with Sid. My dad and I spent Last Thursday and Friday 8/6-7/15 on the salt.
We drilled some where around 120 1" holes, on 6 different courses. Russ Eyres has 10 years of past
GPS located measurement sites.
My F450 14,000lbs. truck left marks almost every where. Some where between the end of Course 4
we tried to get to the 5 mile on course 3, I spent all of my Lotery ticket luck up in about 400' of rev limiter
bouncing NOT getting stuck driving, gave up on that measurement. Got with in about a 1/2 mile of the Federal
Lease dike. walked in there is a very large mixed flow pump out there, does not look like they are using it, they
just drenched around the pump site, gravity flow.
The Cook's were also out their trying to set up the International course every thing was just a little to wet from
the rains that Got Sid. They also gave up after friday 8/7/15 late afternoon/ early evening rain.
Still putting all the info together, We did find 2 1/2"-3" of salt under the mud flow, I do not really care what BLM
says, there is salt under the mud.
The SCTA made the correct decision there is no way the salt as of today could support 565 pre entries and all of the
support vehicles , it would have been a really big mud bog.
I will post when I have more info.
Thanks for Your time,
Eric Eyres
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Didn't we just read somewhere that a Canadian company was going to mine the salt north of floating mountain. I believe they going to come in from the north....I'm probably wrong on this but if it is right there will be 2 company's mining near where we run......
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You are correct, the proposal video is posted on this page somewhere earlier. Sunday Barb and I had time, and at Betty Burkland's suggestion we set out to find Blue Lake. You drive South on Alt.93 about 12 miles and there is a sign that says Blue Lake. That's the easy part. There is a County/State road that hasn't seen a grader for a while and has some of the best washboard that I have ever encountered. Because Blue Lake isn't marked and isn't on my GPS we drove by the spot ant went on about 18 more miles of the nasty road. Along both sides of the road there are signs about the bombing range and No Trespassing. At the far end they changed to Dugway Proving Grounds signs. [We knew then that we had missed out turn. We went back and found the lake and it is a nice desert marsh with a pond sized lake with tons of flies. Actually only about 5 miles off of the highway. Not too bad of a drive. That part of the road is no worse that the road to my house in Columbus for those who have been there.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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The west end of the salt flats has always been the weakest. If you look at the area around where the drags are stored and head north east that is some pretty nice salt, and also the international course which in years past was not a great surface is looking better than I have seen it for years. With some increased drag time and maybe some extra salt on the bad spots there could be two to three good courses. I have been on the Salt Flats and looking every day for the past four weeks, so the salt is ever changing and weather has always been a Big factor in the conditions.
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The north side where the last of the good salt is, is actually the drain field that feeds the plant & also where their north side pumps are located. In other words, that is the lowest area on the flats.
Here's the video I shot last monday that shows how it works out there. Sorry about the sound, it was blowing it's a$$ off up there on that mountain where I should not have been. I can't read signs!:roll:
Sid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8i4TuyiZ_0