Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => LSR General Chat => Topic started by: dw230 on July 26, 2015, 03:21:39 PM
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Now that it appears that the SCTA will tackling paved one mile events is there interest in creating a national record database so that records a venues following the SCTA class structure can be compared.
I envision using the SCTA class structure as mentioned with the addition of added classes such as splitting the 2 stroke/4 stroke m/c classes and the circle track class as used by ECTA and LTA(?). If an organization does not wish to include these classes it is OK.
I would think it would be beneficial to have a certification process to ensure that a claimed record is legal for the class entered. Running up class is OK. Thed idea is to make sure that a C/GR is indeed a C/GR, displacement and body/chassis legal.
Input?
DW
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There will be more teams competing against each other, more sponsors, higher records!
Excellent Idea!
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lets just hope you don't have to start a new class of Salt records--ie short course exit speed records
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Paved 1 mile Records yes!
That may be where we are going--- lets see I would need a new axle, a torque converter, different chutes and a different trans
We might be able to find a 1.3 dirt course here in AZ on a Res.
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There is another venue readily available in New Mexico (brand new private space port) --> http://www.spaceportamerica.com/ and they will allow "racecar speed trials".
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Alp,
More sponsors - lol -that is a good one.
DW
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We might be able to find a 1.3 dirt course here in AZ on a Res.
Bill
That will NEVER happen!
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I support that 100 percent. I wish they would run1.5 mile.
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You also have a retired spaceport at White Sands
doing nothing for years ..
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... http://www.spaceportamerica.com/ and they will allow "racecar speed trials"...
12,000 foot runway... hmm.... :-)
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... is there interest in creating a national record database so that records a venues following the SCTA class structure can be compared...
Speaking for myself, yes. Seems to me that the difficulties could be worked out. My guess is that there would be much interest.
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They just ran a 1.5 mile event in Maine.
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LORING: Over 2 5/8 miles long and timed at the 1 and 1 1/2 miles!
(http://static.wixstatic.com/media/3bd111_4b28ee1e276b5bd73e9e7546a730b54e.png_srb_p_188_511_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_png_srb)
(http://static.wixstatic.com/media/3bd111_0144e65d330de9bbc778f60f3f78f3a1.png_srz_p_285_500_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_png_srz)
LTA link:
http://www.loringtiming.com/
Click on Track for more info!
REALLY outstanding facility and organization.
Gregg
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How is the certification process?
DW
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There is no certification at Loring, currently. Then again, it only costs half as much. There is plenty of room for a tech area and it could easily be set up if the interest is there. I don't think the cost would be prohibitive, as it is the racer's responsibility to do the tear down so you would only need officials and measuring equipment.
Current rules appear to be copied from SCTA, so very few changes would be required. Front brakes required on bikes over 175 mph. I haven't checked car rules for differences.
The community would welcome us with open arms, although they might have to open up more of the old motels and camping areas. Incidentally, British Cycle Supplies is opening up a wholesaling outlet on the base and have invited us to use their space for more camping area and may be agreeable to offer some other services like space for repairs.
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Dan --
You know how simple certification is. A couple of part-time spectators could do it.
We just need to add the "Street" classes and the "Former Race Car" classes to the multitude of SCTA Car classes. No sweat. And then add the "4-Stroke" and "2-Stroke" classes to the simple SCTA motorcycle classes. And then look at the old pictures from various 1-mile events and cut out the vehicles that have records that very obviously don't meet specifications that you can see on a phone-camera at 150 MPH.
I'll start working on a format for the record certificates. Who's gonna sign them?
Stan
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Say Stan,
'Spose you can have that done by the weekend?
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Stan,
My idea does not include the various "other" classes. If the SCTA is not using them then a record(?) would be limited to ECTA or LTA only. The classes would be included in the overall listing.
I fail to see the added costs of a certification team. I thought these events were run on a voluteer basis, you just need a couple of guys who know what a belly pan is and can tell the diff between a production Mustang and an altered Camero. The bike guy would have to know the diff between an A vrs. an APS body work deal.
DW
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I personally don't see the need for a National Data base. To many different venues with there own rules. Just make an SCTA mile section in the SCTA rule book and be done with it. Let the other organizations be responsible for their tech and records. Keep it simple.
Tom G.
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No fun there Tom. My idea may result in a limited amount of band width taken up with all these records listed as signatures. I know Stan would be on board with that.
DW
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It was a similar situation at Pendine this year. The event had not been run under UK Timing Association or ACU sanctions and there were no sand records on their books. We all ran in classes for open records. Next year our records will be the ones that folks will try to beat.
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For 'sand' records, these should be on a beach that is lapped by tides twice a day, (not a desert playa flooded at various times in a year) :-D.
For the pavement miles I thought the USA already had an umbrella governing body because the International Mile Racing Association (IMRA) claims it is ....."IMRA formally established in 2010 as the first and only Sanctioning Body in the World for standing mile events".
The UKTA are working with its own 'Top Speed' bike classes and UK inspired car classes; National ACU/FIM bike classes; AMA Bonneville classes and ECTA car classes; all in the rule book and are organising racing on pavement (Elvington/Woodbridge Airfields) and on Pendine Sands.
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Stan,
My idea does not include the various "other" classes. If the SCTA is not using them then a record(?) would be limited to ECTA or LTA only. The classes would be included in the overall listing.
I fail to see the added costs of a certification team. I thought these events were run on a voluteer basis, you just need a couple of guys who know what a belly pan is and can tell the diff between a production Mustang and an altered Camero. The bike guy would have to know the diff between an A vrs. an APS body work deal.
DW
I may have mislead you about certification at Loring. We already have a tech crew for bikes and another for cars. All vehicles are checked to certify that they are within the rules of LTA (as I said, very similar to SCTA and BMST records) as well as meeting safety regs and clothing requirements. We just don't require tear down to certify motor size.
If we have to wait another 10,000 years for the Salt Flats to recover, we just might want to make mile and mile-and-a-half events certified.
Tom
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"For the pavement miles I thought the USA already had an umbrella governing body because the International Mile Racing Association (IMRA) claims it is ....."IMRA formally established in 2010 as the first and only Sanctioning Body in the World for standing mile events".
Malcolm,
I don't think I have ever heard of them. I'll use the google box.
Tom,
SCTA does do tear downs, or displacement measurements to certifiy that the entry is within the class limits. Not too large or too small. I think if a National or International(UK) database is to be established evryone should be on the same page.
DW
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I'd second that Dan
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My 2c. Loring is the finest pavement track in the country. Tim Kelly and his crew are first class. They are very accomodating, but not to the point of overlooking safety issues. It took three inspectors, doing full inspections, for my over 200 bike. Anyone east of the Mississippi river is missing a bet not running here. It is 2500 miles one way for me, and if I wasnt so darn far I would make every meet. Hell if I had more than one other person to share driving chores I would make every meet. I love that place. Never big winds in any direction, this year is the first time we have lost any racing due to weather. Still got to make plenty of runs. Greg Neal made 31 runs, I think. If more poeple dont start going we could lose it due to lack of participation. They need to at least break even!
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Loring is the finest pavement track in the country. Tim Kelly and his crew are first class. They are very accomodating, but not to the point of overlooking safety issues.
+1
Franey
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If I go to Loring this Fall, part of my justification is how many runs I get in up there. I wouldn't go to a two day event anywhere if setting a record means I am going to be parked for a teardown and end up with half as many passes.
I also believe in records being meaningful mostly for the venue they were set at. I am perfectly having a mile record at Loring and someone else having a slower or faster record wherever. If the records were consolidated and you get a venue running West to East and there won't be records at the North to South if the same vehicles.
To summarize my feelings, I am perfectly fine with folks keeping overall records for the entertainment value, but I care about the records at the venues I can run at. The day venue specific records stop being managed is likely the day I stop running for records. The day record teardowns become mandatory at two day events would likely be the last day I run for records. Hope to see you all at Ohio and possibly Loring this Fall. Salt next year pretty please...
Milt
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Teardown????? you mean lift the gas tank, pull a plug and rotate the engine by hand so the measuring guy can stick caliper your engine.... of if you don't have a center plug motor, disable the valves in a cylinder and air or oil pump it ....
I personally love it every time we have to endure that teardown horror at Bonneville :roll:
Your Motor May Vary.... :cheers:
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Well Milt, IF we see you at Bonneville next year & you do happen to set a record, enjoy the inspection... :evil:
How 'bout you just make laps at all those other venues and not worry about setting any records. Sounds like that's all you want to do to me.
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Milt has a Ducati.
Not sure how that displacement is checked.
262
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Milt has a Ducati.
Not sure how that displacement is checked.
262
I don't care how, only that it is... :cheers:
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I'm not real up on desmodromic(sp?), but I think it still has a bore and stroke.
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The fact that the size of the motor is not checked at any of the pavement venues has always been an issue with me. I would to see it. :-D
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Alp,
More sponsors - lol -that is a good one.
DW
Hey Dan, You might not know, but every time you sign that paper that says "Record Certification" One more sticker gets on my bikes (which does not get on for free except the SCTA) and keeps us going.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2ugkpk2.jpg)
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A measured mile (or 1.5 at MKM & Loring) may be the same distance, but tracks vary so much in condition, shut down, etc. that it's not always an apples to apples comparison. I think a database is cool, but you may only get 2 or 3 runs over a two day Ohio event if it's packed, and tear down only decreases that. I get the certification process and its importance. Spoken integrity + verification = records... BUT the ECTA has been having a ball for many years without it, and although I'm sure some "cheaters" have slipped into the record book over the years, that's on their conscience, not mine. While salt conditions have waned over the past few years, those of us racing on pavement shouldn't be imposed upon with additional procedures. Protests for engine size and class verification exist for that very reason. The pavement organizations don't need another "boss" watching over their shoulders. Just my .02
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Seems to me there are hundreds of 1/4 mile drag strips across the country. Those that run under the NHRA banner run under those rules & records. Same with NMCA etc. but the tracks are all different from elevation to surfaces.
If you end up with a combined book of records for mile tracks a verification process will be required for body & engines. If that's not what you want run time only & don't clam a record.
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Well, just a thought... Have track records with rules like we have now. However, if you wish your record to be considered on the National Pave Record List, the vehicle must be verified for displacement and body. Of course the paved event would have to be on board.
But when I step back and look at the entire situation; since the SCTA is new comer to paved racing, why follow their rules for displacement and/or body anyway? Would not a board of participating paved racing be formed to hash out rules?
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A couple of things to consider, the SCTA has run paved events in the past like the 1/2 drags at Riverside & events at Colton. The main reason for running on dirt or salt was to get the longer distance. Airports in the past were not usually available with a few exceptions like Tustin/Santa ana blimp base.
That being said the SCTA has the structure & legitimacy to make your records valid. The current mile events are for profit, so why should they care if the guy running is legal? If you don't feel the need so be it, you can call Guinness and pay them to post your fastest red Mustang with silver stripes in their record book...
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Well, just a thought... Have track records with rules like we have now. However, if you wish your record to be considered on the National Pave Record List, the vehicle must be verified for displacement and body. Of course the paved event would have to be on board.
But when I step back and look at the entire situation; since the SCTA is new comer to paved racing, why follow their rules for displacement and/or body anyway? Would not a board of participating paved racing be formed to hash out rules?
That was my point - IF you want to be on this (theoretical) list, comply with their standards and procedures. If the SCTA wants to run certain events (MKM, etc.) and REQUIRE certification criteria, that's fine too. Handing over some type of national authority to the SCTA or another organization? I'm not so sure. Newcomers and current mile competitors take pride in setting a record ("national" or not) . . . I agree with your NHRA analogy to a point, and with the quality of tracks improving (loved Maxton, but it was rough with a capital 'r') it's closer to compare Texas to Ohio to Loring. I run a true C/BGALT car (370"), which has never been certified for displacement. That doesn't disprove the validity of my 2013 record or the 2014 record that beat it. Considering anything non-SCTA class/displacement compliant (e.g. /CT) as 'time only' or 'not valid' is quite frankly an insult to mile racers.
I find it hilarious that some of the salt/dirt-only racers on this forum could have cared less about mile racing until the reality of Salt depletion came calling. Labeling these mile racing organizations "for profit" may be accurate, but not caring? Come on, Mike. The ECTA and LTA have a community, family type feel, probably much like the SCTA.
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SCTA at 1954 Colton Drags.
Sometime in the 60s(?), Colton went to 3/16th-mile drags. I believe it was because of the short shut-down area. I don't believe anybody else jumped on that bandwagon.
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Within 10 feet of what NHRA came up with much more recently. Nothing's ever new! :roll: :roll: :-D
Pete
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Redhot,
Several years ago as I saw the increasing number of paved mile events I proposed a unified national record database. The thought was thatracers across the country could compare performance against each other. I believe that NHRA has but one et/mph record per class independant on which track was used.
My idea was along the same lines. There was no interest then and it appears there is no interest now. My dream would be that everyone who lists several inches of records in their login signature would be man enough to delete those records that they know were not set with a class legal vehicle. It would save untold millions of band width bits.
DW
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SCTA at 1954 Colton Drags.
Sometime in the 60s(?), Colton went to 3/16th-mile drags. I believe it was because of the short shut-down area. I don't believe anybody else jumped on that bandwagon.
I stand corrected.
But I do believe that "awesome" picture if taken in 1954, would have to be very late in the year. I think that's a '55 Ford in the far lane supporting a 272 Y-Block.
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Dan, I'll put together a list of standing mile records from Maxton, Wilmington, and Loring, plus whatever happens at Mojave next week, and post it here on LR. We can see if gets any traction, so to speak. -Dean
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Just curious :mrgreen:
Are there any records from:
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Miscellaneous%20stuff/SCTAHalf-MileTrials.jpg)
???
Mike
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Don't remember any record keeping. Just running, I could be wrong though.
Thanks Dean
DW
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"But I do believe that "awesome" picture if taken in 1954, would have to be very late in the year. I think that's a '55 Ford in the far lane supporting a 272 Y-Block."
It's been verified to be 1954. You youngsters don't realize that often in the late 50s, that often the first trip with your new car was to the local drag strip. New models usually came out in September, so no problem there.
It's being beaten (if it's racing at all) by a flathead Ford 6. Notice that there's no E.T. light on the starting line. And as to why the officials are camped on the line, rather than by the grandstand, beats me. I'd guess the timing "tower" was not built yet as they had no timing of their own. Winners were signaled by judges at the finish line.
{By the way, same roadster in my avatar (and in my garage).}
Now, back to our one-mile subject . . .
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A measured mile (or 1.5 at MKM & Loring) may be the same distance, but tracks vary so much in condition, shut down, etc. that it's not always an apples to apples comparison. I think a database is cool, but you may only get 2 or 3 runs over a two day Ohio event if it's packed, and tear down only decreases that. I get the certification process and its importance. Spoken integrity + verification = records... BUT the ECTA has been having a ball for many years without it, and although I'm sure some "cheaters" have slipped into the record book over the years, that's on their conscience, not mine. While salt conditions have waned over the past few years, those of us racing on pavement shouldn't be imposed upon with additional procedures. Protests for engine size and class verification exist for that very reason. The pavement organizations don't need another "boss" watching over their shoulders. Just my .02
I don't think other organizations will be happy with SCTA'S Lexan window requirement among many others.
My cost was over $1500 and we did the install. We could get the Lexan for the Camaro but others could not.
JL222
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John,
The other organizations use a direct copy of the SCTA rule book and classes(some added). If their book retains the Lexan rule it should be applied.
DW
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"For the pavement miles I thought the USA already had an umbrella governing body because the International Mile Racing Association (IMRA) claims it is ....."IMRA formally established in 2010 as the first and only Sanctioning Body in the World for standing mile events."
As promised I googled this IMRA. Nothing came up but a bunch of Mid-Eastern sites. Guess they bailed on the paved mile events. Left you guys high and dry.
DW
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internationalmileracingassociation.com
came up for me :-D
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There you go!
I'm impressed!
I'm gonna find out how much and where it takes to become the fastest all-steel (and Bondo) 28-29 (don't know) white (with some other trim color) street-licensed (now expired) roadster in the western half of the U.S.
I'm assuming that I won't have to deal with that picky a-hole Dan Warner any more!
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Stan, instead of calling names, why don't you explain why you are irritated by
something someone did or said?
We should act like adults in this forum, don'cha think?
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Stan, instead of calling names, why don't you explain why you are irritated by
something someone did or said?
We should act like adults in this forum, don'cha think?
Tallguy, I think that one whizzed by you like a white and other colored roadster.. That was pure comedy.
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I'm proud to be on Stan's radar.
DW
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Better watch it Stan, Dan will have the cell phone cops on your tail :-D
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... internationalmileracingassociation.com...
... came up for me,,,
For me too. I read most of the stuff on their website, but didn't get much of an idea of how active they now are?
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I am sure the UK Timing Association results can and should be added to those of pavement events in the USA. After all, we have the fastest female motorcyclist over here (fouth rider on the all time worldwide bike 1 mile listing) - Becci Ellis. Becci is a few tenths ahead of Jarrod 'jack' Frost on the full UK 1 mile listing.
When added on to a combined list, the UKTA might get more car folk interested in official mile speed racing - UK supercar drivers have their own radar gun 'list' and modified roadgoing cars seem to break all noise restrictions, which the 'old country' has to have for continued airfield use.
The UKTA/ACU has speed records for the standing mile discipline, because we run vehicles two ways within one hour at our Record Meetings. The outright record (held by Jack Frost) may be under threat at our September event at Elvington.
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Egads there are a LOT of car classes! Stan complains about the bikes...
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John,
The other organizations use a direct copy of the SCTA rule book and classes(some added). If their book retains the Lexan rule it should be applied.
DW
Dan I know one reason Lexan is required at Bville and EL Mirage is because of the holdup on racing and the difficult clean up
after a wreck
Asphalt has better traction and there should not be as many spins or wrecks and cleanup would be much faster if there is.
Maybe SCTA should consider not requiring this rule on pavement.
Hate to have someone turned away this weekend.
JL222 :cheers:
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OK John
DW
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If pavement racing becomes the only game in town, racers might want to consider other formats than a 132 foot trap at the end of 1 or 1.5 miles. The Cook shootout shows there is interest in real world records. A track long enough for 1.5 miles is also long enough for a 2 way flying kilometer.
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I race a bike at Ohio and Loring and like the idea of the honor system for engine displacement. No one get's busted for 4 cc's and it's more of a run what you brung attitude based on a man's word.
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..... there is interest in real world records. A track long enough for 1.5 miles is also long enough for a 2 way flying kilometer.
For bikes setting world records you will need four (4) kilometres of course length for speeds up to 310mph and for over 310 mph you will need seven (7) kilometre of track length. We do not have tracks that meet these criteria in the UK. So no straight line FIM records can be set over here. The FIA do not have such rigid criteria for courses but they may do on the grounds of safety.
All engines are measured.
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..... there is interest in real world records. A track long enough for 1.5 miles is also long enough for a 2 way flying kilometer.
For bikes setting world records you will need four (4) kilometres of course length for speeds up to 310mph and for over 310 mph you will need seven (7) kilometre of track length. We do not have tracks that meet these criteria in the UK. So no straight line FIM records can be set over here. The FIA do not have such rigid criteria for courses but they may do on the grounds of safety.
All engines are measured.
The longest runway in the world is 4 km and it's in Russia.
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The Shuttle Landing Facility covers 500 acres (200 ha) and has a single runway, 15/33. It is one of the longest runways in the world, at 4,572 m (15,000 ft), and is 91.4 meters (300 ft) wide.[1] (Despite its length, astronaut Jack R. Lousma stated that he would have preferred the runway to be "half as wide and twice as long".[3]) Additionally, the SLF has 305 meters (1,000 ft) of paved overruns at each end.
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The longest runway in the world is 4 km and it's in Russia.
The LTA website says theirs is over 2 5/8 mile: that's 4224.5 meters. Mojave Mile website says theirs is 12,500 ft., or 3.8 km.
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For bikes setting world records you will need four (4) kilometres of course length for speeds up to 310mph and for over 310 mph you will need seven (7) kilometre of track length. . . . The FIA do not have such rigid criteria for courses but they may do on the grounds of safety.
I would think going for the fastest wheel-driven car records on a runway gets problematical without consideration of the stopping distance available. Is there a tire that could take being accelerated to over 450 mph in a mile and a half?
Should be great for the smaller displacement cars, though. FIA has classes for 250 and 350cc cars, by the way.
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Should have been clear that only those claiming World records would have their engine measured.
Yes the tracks over 4.0km would work for anyone not capable of getting to 300+ mph. However the governing body might have read about the LTA track record and say that it is too short for anyone to challenge Bill's motorcycle speed. If they did demand a track for the higher speeds it would need to be a 7km length.
Would any meeting be viable with classes limited by speed capability to the 'smaller' cubic capacities?
The tyre makers would need to comment about suitable rubber for high speed pavement use, but I think talk of speeds in excess of 350 mph is somewhat premature (and may not be possible wheeldriven).
Agree totally that it is the stopping which would concern organisers and venue owners. With a UK jet car running 329mph average speed [through the centrally located quarter mile] the team had to have a temporary road closure outside the facility they had hired (a public road crossed the alignment of the airfield runway) just for the 'worst case scenario' of double chute failure.
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The longest runway in the world is 4 km and it's in Russia.
The LTA website says theirs is over 2 5/8 mile: that's 4224.5 meters. Mojave Mile website says theirs is 12,500 ft., or 3.8 km.
The officials at Loring say it the 13 th longest runway in the world.
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Not all runways are flat/level/same elevation end to end- For instance Wilmington has a noticeable down hill at about the half mile mark. It may be difficult to compare "records" set at different venues for reasons such as this.
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I understand the number of runs/certified record issue and have an idea for a solution. The downhill at Wilmington does not concern me Jack. I feel a venue is what it is and I doubt a few degrees of pitch would make a difference.
DW
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Just as altitude, prevailing winds, and surface type / condition will have different effects on performance.
If drag racing can have national (international?) records so can mile events IMO.
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Would any meeting be viable with classes limited by speed capability to the 'smaller' cubic capacities?
The currently scheduled 1.5 mile meets could easily add a set of lights to time a one way flying kilo, just for information purposes. A population of vehicles with known world record potential would result, and enough interest might be generated.
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If flying kilo records is what you want the venue will have to conform to FIM standards for speed based length, degree of flatness, Wilmington will not qualify due to its downhill section. Other things to consider are the presence of a FIM steward which is very expensive and the vehicle will have to be torn down for certification.
DW
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Oops! My bad. Having a problem converting all this km to feet to yards to miles.
The runway in Russia is 5km long. I think the previous government built it to land their shuttle. While it looked identical to the one the USA designed, it weighed a lot more.
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The British are already host standing mile one way and two way record attempts UKTA - The UK MIle. I know you may want to keep any 'records' as National but there is an International audience for the discipline and we have some very fast bikes.
The UK record for the (one way) standing mile is 264.1 mph by Becci Ellis on the BDR Hayabusa, fourth rider in the all time listing.
Record in the best two way average speed classes is Jack Frost at 253.723 mph. In the two way turbine class I think we have the world's fastest at 225.7585 mph with Zef Eisenberg (233 mph one way). And this last bike was 'naked'.
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Dan
With the end of the LSR racing season coming up fast at least here on the East Coast I would be interested in helping get something going on the national paved mile records. With the Wilmington and Loring events already established the only detail to work out is the certification for those who would like to set a national paved record. The certification could be part of the inital vehicle inspection if your interested in the national record the displacement and fuel tank sealing could take place at that time.
The other detail would be the inspectors doing the cetification and how the SCTA if thats the organization keeping track of these records woudl be invloved and finally what the addtional cost would be for that service.
Considerign the poor condtion of the salt flats it might be some time before we have the opertunity to run there so the national paved record idea could help during the salt's healing process.
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Would any meeting be viable with classes limited by speed capability to the 'smaller' cubic capacities?
The currently scheduled 1.5 mile meets could easily add a set of lights to time a one way flying kilo, just for information purposes. A population of vehicles with known world record potential would result, and enough interest might be generated.
The Mojave Mile/Magnum can already do this, as we can now record speeds at two separate distances. We can time any two of 1 Kilometer/1 Mile/1.5 miles in the same pass.
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They are trying to do 1/4, 1/2 and one mile at Colorado mile this weekend.
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Ronnie,
Thanks for the offer. Taking your questions and statements out of order, first SCTA does not charge for any of it's services. Inspection, record cert, etc. are a part of your association membership, all done by the volunteers. I am guessing ECTA and LTA operate the same way.
Certification done at the time of inspection would not work well in my opinion. The time it takes to measure displacement can take up to 20 minutes if the inspection team has every thing in place. This would hold up all the racers who are anxious to get on with the program. To seal tanks vrs. checking gasoline compliance will not ensure that the competitor is using said legal gas. In fact, if I understand correctly from last week, Loring does not seal tanks inferring that there are no gasoline checks done.
I am used to the SCTA and it's methods as I have been doing LSR since 1963. Without bragging I feel the SCTA has the credibility and history for legit record certification.
I am willing to explore this option with anyone who wants to expand my initial idea. I must warn you that the SCTA board has not approved my thoughts and there is still no certainty of future mile and mile.5 events.
DW
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Dan I understand what you mean about the time it will take for the certification. Take ECTA as an example the entire day Friday is pit set up and inspection. I think the extra time needed for the engine cert on Friday is doable maybe locate that portion of the inspection to another area for those wanting to run for the national record. Take my choice of power a flathead Ford V-8 the engine cert would take some time considering the heads need to be removed I would prefer getting the engine size verified before I run to save time. Fuel tanks can be sealed by the person dispensing the fuel just like its done on the salt. A few modifications to the way its done now but easy to adjust to if this can take place.
With only Saturday and Sunday for racing using Friday for the certification would allow racers the opportunity to race more and be a better use of the time my thoughts at least. Being an SCTA member for the national record recognition would work perfectly. The rule books for ECTA and LTA are very close to the SCTA book any slight differences if needed I would think could be worked out.
This weekend a number of SCTA members who only ran on the salt in the past were running at the Loring event. Overall it looks like their speeds are off by around 10 to 15 MPH compared to their numbers from the salt that's some of the vintage engine cars.
To make this happen first I think the SCTA board needs to be receptive to your idea if that takes place then I would hope the ECTA and LTA would show interest in the idea I know I would push for this and I'm sure I would not be alone in doing so. Maybe do something like this take the June event and list the option for making a national record attempt use it as a test to see how well it would work.
Having the record recognized by the SCTA in my opinion is the only way to go I agree with your statement the SCTA has the credibility and history for legit record certification.
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Would any meeting be viable with classes limited by speed capability to the 'smaller' cubic capacities?
The currently scheduled 1.5 mile meets could easily add a set of lights to time a one way flying kilo, just for information purposes. A population of vehicles with known world record potential would result, and enough interest might be generated.
The Mojave Mile/Magnum can already do this, as we can now record speeds at two separate distances. We can time any two of 1 Kilometer/1 Mile/1.5 miles in the same pass.
Just to be clear, what I was suggesting was a time for the last kilometer of the 1.5 mile course. This would be for anyone thinking about breaking a FIA or FIM flying kilo record Such a record would require a 2-way run through the same kilo, but if there's enough room to stop in one direction, this would leave the same distance (about 7/8 mile) to stop in the other direction. Malcolm UK has pointed out that the FIM, in particular, sets minimum course lengths for such attempts.
Anyhow, maybe nobody cares, and a drag race style trap at the end of the mile is coming to be the accepted standard for who has the fastest car. Dunno.
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Tortoise
The name of this topic is National Paved Mile Records the FIA and FIM flying kilo records are a completely separate subject unless im missing something here.
Considering how the ECTA has timed the mile for the past 20 years and the LTA for the last 5 years the 132 foot trap is the way its done and as I see it will continue to be the standard. SCTA if they so decide should be the authority for the record keeping as it relates to the name on this topic.
The current venues being used here on the East Coast would not work well for the required two way run through the same kilo needed for the FIA and FIM record. Changing the direction of staging and the start to finish line would be a big pain during a regular meet. However I imagine A special meet held just for the required FIA and FIM rules would be the only way to do it. Well at least that's how I see it.
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Doesn't make much sense to certify vehicles before they even run. They could break, not qualify, or not even run. And who's to say they weren't "modified" after they were "certified". Lots of time wasted on that effort.
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One record requires no certification for class legality, and that's the fastest car or bike in the standing start mile, period. Fastest bike would seem to be Bill Warner's 311. Fastest car speed I've found is Patrick O'Gorman in the Ford GT at Texas, 278.20. Have I missed a faster one?
Is anyone building a special-construction car to go faster?
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Fastest car over 1 mile is 323 MPH at Texas,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6qvmbTiZXk
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Thrust ?
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IIRC Bill Warner went 296mph in the standing mile for the fastest motorcycle; 311mph in 1.5 mile. Very impressive either way.
To my knowledge 283mph Ford GT is the fastest car wheel driven record in the standing mile.
FYI the 323mph record at the Texas Mile was not wheel driven, but a huge accomplishment nonetheless.
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Oh........
So we DO need rules to determine what fastest of the fastest means....... :roll:
I have the fastest red Pinto with white stripes....... :dhorse:
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Fastest car over 1 mile is 323 MPH at Texas
A rocket funny car went 386 in the quarter mile in the eighties, so not so impressive, I'd say.
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We got an award for being the fastest Chevy powered roadster at Speedweek once. My son's response was, "was that for the fastest blue Chevy powered roadster or for the fastest red Chevy powered roadster"?
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Oh........
So we DO need rules to determine what fastest of the fastest means....... :roll:
I have the fastest red Pinto with white stripes....... :dhorse:
If we need rules to determine what the fastest of the fastest means then it would be best to start a new thread. This one somehow has gotten off track.
So back to the title National Paved Mile Records using the rules outlined by the timing authority holding the event be it ECTA or LTA following the SCTA rules format. If the Ford GT at 283 MPH would pass tech just like any other Land Speed Race vehicle and fit into a class then that record would stand. But if it was say a Texas Mile Record where they have a class called super car in which the rules are very loose in my opinion in no way would that be considered a national record.
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That's my point.
DW
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I would agree totally with Fredvance post # 25 - Tim Kelley - Joe Daley and crew offer three great events. If you'd like to do at least several passes a day LTA will get you there. Bill Warner of Warner/Forstall Racing did 311.945 mph in 2011 APS/BF 1350 - RIP Bill - Plenty of room to go fast & stop safe. The LTA race track is currently the longest asphalt LSR surface available in the world today, due to the fact that it is over 2 5/8 miles long! :cheers: http://www.loringtiming.com/#!track/c3fg
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new rule book and classes plus all of the record sheets(pages) etc. Or volume 2 of the existing rule book. It takes a lot of work folks.
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I was at the Colorado Mile last week and I didn't see many roll cages - and few would pass SCTA tech.
That would be the first hurdle.
Bikes might qualify more easily.
Will Willis #6302
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I was at the Colorado Mile last week and I didn't see many roll cages - and few would pass SCTA tech.
That would be the first hurdle.
Bikes might qualify more easily.
Will Willis #6302
I "think" the Colorado Mile used the same rules as the Texas Mile, not nearly the same safety requirements as ECTA or LTA. However, not trying to be an a$$, but what does safety rules have to do with "Body Classes", "Displacement", and Fuel rules?
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I ran at Maine last week and it was just great. The only drawback was the 1900+ mile drive, this is a long way to go for a 2-day event. The 1 1/2 mile course however, was great and I could tell a difference over the mile course at Ohio. I wish someone would do a race at the http://spaceportamerica.com/ in New Mexico. It would be less than a 1000 mile drive for me and even shorter for people in Texas or California. I agree on comments above about class rules and certification, just hard to do during weekend events.
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new rule book and classes plus all of the record sheets(pages) etc. Or volume 2 of the existing rule book. It takes a lot of work folks.
There's no reason for a new rule book the existing rules in the current book should be whats used for the qualifying vehicles. The national paved mile records would be for true Land Speed Vehicles. The only additional paper needed would be for the listing of the record set by a qualified vehicle be it car of bike.
Were not talking about Texas or Colorado mile events their rules at this time do not follow the SCTA format or the rules used by the other true LSR timing associations that being the ECTA and the LTA.
All of this still needs to be approved by the powers to be. Until then its just an idea but in many ways a good idea it would be nice to have additional opportunity's to try and set a record.
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3 Day Meets
Now that ECTA has posted their new schedule with the 1st & last meets going to 3 Day Meets with tech on Thursday and racing on Fri/Sat/Sun maybe they would consider opting into Dans' plan or something similar as suggested by Ransom in post 37. They could set aside a certify area for those wanting to be verified after a record breaking run on race day, free or an additional small fee would be okay with me. If you don't want your engine verified so you can be added to the National list then don't use the service. I for one think it would be a great list as well as having track records. It does work for the NHRA with all the different venues they run.
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The ECTA three day meets according to their site list Friday to Sunday there's no Thursday set up.
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Ron, I was talking with Brian at the September meet and he told me, just like wfojohn posted, that tech will be on Thursday and racing Fri, Sat & Sun. I'll shoot him and email and see if he will confirm and also get him to correct the ECTA website.
Gregg
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Ron, I was talking with Brian at the September meet and he told me, just like wfojohn posted, that tech will be on Thursday and racing Fri, Sat & Sun. I'll shoot him and email and see if he will confirm and also get him to correct the ECTA website.
Gregg
Hi Greg
Thats good news I was hoping Thursday would be set up day maybe the web site just needs updating. Im all in favor of the National Paved Mile Records idea the ECTA event would certainly be perfect for this.