Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => LSR General Chat => Topic started by: Seldom Seen Slim on October 01, 2014, 10:38:08 AM
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I wonder who'll be the first to show up with one of these.
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2015-Ninja-H2R?cm_mmc=EblastGeneral-_-NFV-_-09302014-_-KMC2015NinjaH2RDetailsLanding
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I haven't seen that much hype in a Kawasaki commercial in years. Anybody actually seen one?
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and I doubt if any of us "normal" folks will ever see one. Limited production, the word is that no more than 500 units will built for Worldwide sales, including both the race and street versions. England is getting 25 units and all of them are sold. And they ain't cheap ... USA price looks to be $60K for the race version and $30K for the street version.
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That motor literally screams!!! (No, wait. That's the broad on the video.)
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Those guys racing them bikes will have to deal with the Walrus when I get the blower figured out. They do not stand a chance.
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im sure your correct walrus...but until then they can try to best Ralph Hudson
un-supercharged on gas 1000cc 239.97+, or they could take off all the bodywork
and try Dean Sabatinelli unstreamlined 1000cc un-supercharged at 215+
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Or Mark Deluca on Larry Forstall's Guppy, 254+ na
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It is impressive to look at a supercharged bike that was designed as one from the beginning. Everything is so neatly packaged and it all fits together. Sure is a tall and short of wheelbase. I can see why they need fins to keep it down. Think about the 200 mph wheelie when those fins keep it up!
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You meany Fred...I was only going to subject the new 1000 cc H2 to those 1000 cc records mentioned above....but go buddy...show em what displacement is all about ..:)
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Of course Joe failed to mention his historic 272+ pass and 251 record. I just looked at the pics. Once again Kawasaki has taken a really good motor and surrounded it with really poor aerodynamics. Why do they do this??
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honestly figured they would have their hands full with Dean un-streamlined 1000cc and
Ralph's un-blown 1000 cc....
its intriguing....how it has so many sharp edges, maybe all added up, its a ninja effect and the air
just bends and lays down
wobbly......many old school 1000cc and larger bike stuff currently campaigned at Bonneville, make
made 90 to 140 rwhp stock, and make 260 to 500+ hp, that have only had regular oil changes, and havent
been apart for YEARS....sometimes running multiple Bonneville meets year after year
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Didn't Ralph have a 241 or 242 one way??
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oh yes, his two way is 239.97..!!!
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The ratio of piston surface area, and consequently pressure, is real large on these motors in comparison to the thrust area on the rod big end shells. Once I get them looking good during the bi-annual top end teardown, I will leave them alone for longer periods.
That Kawasaki is really tempting. Right now I have a good credit rating, a job, and a visa card. Heck, with one of those all I need is to buy a bunch of aluminum sheets, ten boxes of pop rivets, and a couple of bottles of propane. No motor work needed.
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I guess my only question about this bike is will safety wiring void your warranty if you blow a motor? Guess if you race one of these you need to race under an alias so Kawasaki's service department does not know where you or the bike were in August.
The way I read the rules, the race version will have to run in modified, since it is not street legal and the detuned, street version could run in P-PB. Other than the open PB class, it does not look like this bike will be a candidate for an easy record, without some expensive modifications. For bang-for-your-buck, a blown GSXR or Ninja will be much cheaper to make go fast.
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I'd be guessin' Kawasaki has pretty good access to Mitsubishi wind tunnels (if they don't have their own). Those little winglets on the front end remind me of some of the interesting aero work on the Motocyzsz projects. Those folks have done some pretty good aero work in the interest of stability and low drag while working with a big cooling challenge.
Interesting website: http://motoczysz.com/
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Getting the speed needed for a P-PB record on the H2R would be easy. However once you do, you would have to tear your $40,000 machine down on the salt just to get it measured. That would be sacrilege! It would never be the same again.
Don
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Don, teardown is rarely required on center plug motors, they can be measured with a tool that does not require teardown, just access to the sparkplug holes.
But running anything on the salt changes it forever...
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For those who wonder about voiding the warrantee .... The race version doesn't have one. Also, the dyno graph that I saw showed 290+ at the rear tire on the race version. With that short of wheel base, it has to be a handful to ride at full bolt.
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Should be interesting to see how the launch/traction control handles the salt. :-o You just know we'll see one there next year. :-D
Big write-up by Kevin Cameron in Cycle World this month.
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Even more interesting would be one with decent streamlining.
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Pix from the Seattle mo'sickle show. First. The carbon fiber air ducts extend back from the front of the fairing to the blower.
Second. There are two versions of these things. This is the race one based on the assumption the slicks are on it. Note how the header is plastered tight to the front of the block. The engine is located as far forward as possible so the pipes are back to keep the front tire from hitting them. The back half of the air ducts can be seen.
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First. A triangulated tube frame a was used rather than the typical box perimeter one found on most modern sport bikes. The welds appear to be hand done. Second, the back. Note the joinery on the tubes toward the rear. The frame sorta follows the idea of the thong. Just enough to keep the parts from dropping out and nothing more.
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First. The little blower. Judging from the frame joints there is something that was removed to give us a better view. Above the supercharger is the plenum. Second pix. The high rpm fuel injectors. Shooting the fuel into the bellmouths gives it time to adequately mix and vaporize with the short time available at fast engine speeds. This is what I need to install on the Triumph to get the benefits from highly oxygenated gasoline blends like I used this year. Carbs cannot do what is needed to adequately prepare the fuel/air mixture for combustion.
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The little blower. These bikes are beautifully engineered. Three dimensional computer aided design allow all of this to be done within a reasonable time frame. All of this is more than casual interest for me. This is what I need to beat for AMA records in the forced induction classes.
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Our local dealer has a couple of these things on order. I can't wait till they come in.
I think the price tag will help in keeping the safety up, as in "who the heck would mistreat a bike that cost that much?" The average folks would never spend that much money just to go out and beat it up. The average folks wouldn't buy such a bike.
But to a LSR racer it sure invokes interest at least.
I'd like to see one on a Mile or on the Salt. :-)
Rouse
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Thanks for the pics of the frame. Question: I notice that wherever the frame tubing makes a direction change, instead of a bend the tubing is welded to a short piece of tubing placed cross-wise in the joint. Is that a better way over just welding the two pieces together or bending the tubing?
Thanks
Don
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The joints with the short tube sections contained bolt heads or nuts. The ones that do not have a bolt in them look like they do when the bike is fully assembled. The frame is like a Vincent. It is tightly bolted to the engine and that gives it its strength.
These blown 1000cc bikes do not fit the rules of any road race class I know of. Maybe endurance racing? There are not many places to race them other than the drags or land speed.
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I agree with Walrus about the question of what these bikes were built to do. The race-only will race where? Is there a new road racing class for supercharged 1000's? Obviously a few will show up for land speed racing, but that has never been a big point with the manufacturers, unless Rob Muzzy shows up with a big green trailer. I guess a bunch will go to the drag strip too, just have to wonder how competitive they will be with the built turbo engines. In a sense it seems like Kawasaki was doing this as a marketing/engineering exercise, but we may see more of this kind of stuff in the future.
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I agree with Walrus about the question of what these bikes were built to do. The race-only will race where? Is there a new road racing class for supercharged 1000's? Obviously a few will show up for land speed racing, but that has never been a big point with the manufacturers, unless Rob Muzzy shows up with a big green trailer. I guess a bunch will go to the drag strip too, just have to wonder how competitive they will be with the built turbo engines. In a sense it seems like Kawasaki was doing this as a marketing/engineering exercise, but we may see more of this kind of stuff in the future.
Yes, but what class in LSR (and to be competitive) ? The records for MPS-BG are quite high and I don't believe there is a Production Class for blown. AND I could be wrong, but I don't believe they are building 500 of the race version bikes.
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There IS a production class for blown engines in both AMA and SCTA. The class would be 1000 P-PB. Just like there are classes for the 1980's turbo bikes like the Kawasaki 750 GPZ Turbo and the Honda 500 and 650 CTX turbo.
I would love to take an H2R to Bonneville but at 40-50k that record would be an expensive one.
Don
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I sure did over look it ... it's an open record in the 1000cc class.
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Hey Don, are there any cheap ones?. :-)
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Is there a jet ski version called the H2O? :-D
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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No cheap ones if a hat goes with it for sure
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They are building two versions, the street version and the "R" version. As I read the SCTA rules, the race bike would have to run in A class as that is for race bikes, specials, non-street legal, etc. The street version should be able to run in 1000 P-PB, and in modified, assuming Kawasaki plans to build 500+ bikes. This shouldn't be an issue with AMA as they just let Motus run and get a record. If you want one, you have to place an order with your dealer by 12/19 and put a deposit down. It sounds like they are going to build versus orders. The street version is $25,000 and has roughly 200hp and the race version is $50,000 and has an estimated 300hp. I did read that you cannot order any "R" parts unless you can prove ownership of an "R". Guess that will open up things for the aftermarket. I did read that the street version will offer extended warranties for up to four race seasons, I mean four years.... I can see the warranty guy looking at my claim - sir we see you had the motor running at 14,000 rpm for 90 seconds, where were you? Hope the ECU doesn't have GPS. So I guess the answer is yes you can buy the cheaper one and race on the open record in production. The race bike would run on APS-BG at 230, APS-BF at 251, A-BG at 192 and A-BF at 226, so other than the 192 mph record, none will easy.
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There is a production class for blown
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There is a production class for blown
Fred, I just not be around too many blown Production bikes to know if there was a class for them.
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I have been have been watching these since the first teaser was put out there, very interesting (out of my $ range) .....
This is the H2 Street version
(http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af354/RGV866/A%20bit%20of%20Fun/KawasakiNinjaH2Med_zps364761ee.jpg) (http://s1023.photobucket.com/user/RGV866/media/A%20bit%20of%20Fun/KawasakiNinjaH2Med_zps364761ee.jpg.html)
The H2 engine is designed/made as a Blown Engine .... from the Intake ..... Plenum ..... Pistons ... Cams ..... Valves .... it has two separate Exhaust Ports per cylinder .... and a GP inspired gearbox to "assist" shifting ... ( from http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/Kawasaki%20H2%2015.htm ) .... all to do with maxing out a long and flat Torque Curve using the low Boost ....
The H2 is apparently aimed at the Hayebusa/ZX14R market ..... this version should definitely set the Blown Production record right up there ..... maybe Outright Production Road Acceleration/Speed King?
The H2R it is not meant to be a Road Race Bike ... The ZX10R fills that role ..... I'd say it was developed so Kawasaki can say it has the Most Powerful "Production" Bike ... not so different for Kawasaki ...
I can't see the H2R being a Land Speed M or A Record holding Bike .... not up against highly modified Turbo Bikes .... but it would be a lot of high dollar fun at Local Track days ... buzzing everything else on the straight :-o
Pete :cheers:
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You noticed that, too. The blower is little. My feeling is it is near the limit of controllable combustion without the blower so it does not need much boost to get all of the combustion pressure it can handle. No water injection is on it or other means to keep the intake charge cool. That might be the weak spot in the design. A lesser bike with good intake charge temp control might make more HP.
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Hi Bo
Yep, it is still a Street Bike .... I can't see it being anything too high .... even with it's appropriate Blown Comp Ratio of 8.5:1 .... the Centrifugal is at least better at keeping Intake Temps down ....
As it is Proddy Supercharged, this makes it a bit of a proposition to "Turn up the Boost" even if an Intercooler was fitted ... it is doable ... but the sound oh the sound of it 8-)
Pete :cheers:
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I am guessing we will see an intercooler on the side of that trellis frame, more cam timing, and a bit more boost by 2016 Speedweek.
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What sort of power do the A or M/BF-BG 1000 Bikes make?
Pete
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I built a turbo Kawasaki ZX-10 for my daughter's ride at BUB and it made over 300hp on the dyno. That was with a small turbo too.
Don
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in the landspeed/dragracing world, 300 is at the very lower end of avilable "blown" 1000cc horsepower, :roll:,,
the original H1(500) was the performance machine/benchmark for its time, the following H2(750) never matched the H1 in horsepower to cubic capicity, performance terms,,
imho, these latest H2R's (race and street) are nothing more than a "Kawasaki Gimic", :-D
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The impression I get about the Kawasaki is that its motor is a nice power plant for a streamliner or partial streamliner. It is very compact.
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Just thinking. SS (Mr Kawasaki) Slim made one of the first posts on this topic and has been uncharacteristically silent. Maybe something is in the planning stage...
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Slim likes that production class and that flaming exhaust has to get his attention too.
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Well -- I guess I hadn't thought about the fact that maybe youse guys would think I should be interested in the bike - more than just posting the promo stuff that I did. To tell the truth, I don't see much advertising at all (magazines, TV, newspapers, internet) so don't know how much "buzz" there is in the world about the new scooter. We're not planning on getting a new bike, not planning to race a new bike, and so on. So -- I really did just put it up here so one and all, even the car guys, could see and talk about the new toy from Kwackasowwi. Sure, I'd be very glad to play with one, but I've been pretty busy putting firewood in the boiler and plowing snow and haven't taken the time to drool over the new bike. Thanks for thinking of me, though. . . :roll:
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Slim, we understand that you have your story, but I heard a rumor that you were inquiring about a racing chain guard and a tether switch for an H2, go ahead and keep denying. Do I hear a drill press in the background drilling safety wire bolt holes? :-D
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Kawasaki is requiring deposits for the H2 by 12/19. My local dealer said they had to have $5000 for the H2 and a whole bunch for the H2R. So much for Christmas for the Kawasaki fans.
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Drill press? Is that how I'm supposed to get those 1/16th holes drilled? I do it my way -- the old way. Hand held drill and lots of little drill bits. I can often get more than one hole done before forgetting and snapping off yet another bit.
And aside from that, here's my way to restock my supply of 1/16th drills: I take my drill and a handful of cheapo bits to the race track whenever we go. Invariably someone will come to our pit to ask if I would lend him the drill and bit. I offer what I've got, and throw in the wire-twisting pliers and some wire, too. He leaves and later on, when he comes back, he's carrying all of my stuff -- and a few of those high-end bits made of unobtanium diamond cobalt. Don't laugh - it works! :evil: :-D :evil: :-D
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I went ahead and ordered one. The dealer laughed when I asked about the warranty, he suggested I go to the other dealer and clean the salt off first. I wonder if Kawasaki views safety wiring as proof you race it. Maybe I could just tell them I was worried about vibration.
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Ed, congratulations! Did you order the H2 or H2R?
Don
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http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/11/on-the-record-rickey-gadson-talks-new-project-kawasaki-ninja-h2-hybrid-drag-motorcycle/?cmpid=enews121814&spPodID=030&spMailingID=21866747&spUserID=NzM4NjMwMzAyMDMS1&spJobID=461983905&spReportId=NDYxOTgzOTA1S0
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Don, I got the H2, so I could run in production. Those modified and altered records are pretty high. I hope to be able to buy all of the H2 parts, but doubt that would make them competitive.