Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Safety => Topic started by: SPARKY on September 25, 2014, 09:58:08 AM
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Sumner called yesterday and we ended up talking about 9 point harness ---
My take; with 9 points ---4 shoulder belts-- we now can to the shoulder belt job better with 4 belts -they ride one on top of each other and join just before the attachment hardware.
the inner belts stop you from riding up into the cage by attaching the inner belts below your shoulder blades ---much lower than a single
---he had me get out the 2014 rule book and look on page 32
SEAT BELT MOUNTINGS as I understand them
ATTTACH POINTS as I understand them, using existing drawings in rule book as reference points!
Fig. 5
inner belt would attach where the 2 arrows point to each other ----"As close to the seat back as possible"
outer belt would attach where the straight line comes straight off the top of the shoulder (90 deg.) to the spine illustrating the (0-20 degs.)
Fig. 6
inner belt would attach where the 2 arrows point to each other ----"As close to the seat back as possible"
outer belt would attach where the straight line comes straight off the top of the shoulder (90 deg.) to the spine illustrating the (0-20 degs.)
Fig. 7
inner belt would attach where the 2 arrows point to each other ----"As close to the seat back as possible"
outer belt would attach where the straight line comes straight off the top of the shoulder (90 deg.) to the spine illustrating the (2" min. 4" max.)
Again this is my understanding of where the attachment points are I will be sending my belts back to Stroud and have him replace what my son says the military calls "dial a death" rotary belt release with the old latch type. The rotary is easier to hook up but can JAM from grit or salt.
Who says you cant teach and old dog new tricks :-D
Hope this helps ---YMMV :cheers:
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Bill;
If you check the HANS device shoulder harness mounting points drawings, you'll see that they are NOT the same as the mounting points shown in the rule book! :?
I'm puzzled-- which is correct?
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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3.D.2 (2014) ...
SEAT BELTS AND SHOULDER HARNESSES SHALL BE INSTALLED TO THE MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS AND IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE HELMET SUPPORT SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS. SPECIAL CONSIDERATION MUST BE GIVEN TO THE SHOULDER BELT INTERACTION WITH THE HANS TYPE DEVICE, SFI 38.1
I installed my shoulder harnesses as prescribed by Simpson and Safety Solutions (which matched!). Kiwi Paul looked at them and didn't like them.
Mike
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There are just too many different kinds of HNR (Head & Neck Restraint) Systems on the market. If you combine
that fact with all the different Seat Belt Systems, manufacturer's and then take into consideration that in
our type of sport, you will not find two vehicles a like, I would just go with what it says in the 2014 Rule Book:
"SEAT BELTS AND SHOULDER HARNESSES SHALL BE INSTALLED TO THE MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS
AND IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE HELMET SUPPORT SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS. SPECIAL CONSIDERATION MUST
BE GIVEN TO THE SHOULDER BELT INTERACTION WITH THE HANS TYPE DEVICE, SFI 38.1".
Sparky, I would contact Bob at Stroud and send him pics of your car/drivers compartment without the sheet
metal on. (with & without you in the car) Send him your belts and have him engineer the system for your car.
To fit your HNR system (make sure to tell him the model and degree of angle) and have him consider that you
are a tall good size driver. Further tell him the degrees your seat is angled up/down and show him what mounting
points you have available behind your head & seat.
Bob should be able to tell you exactly, where your Seat Belt Systems mounting points should be.
Mike
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Mike, Bob and I talked at length about this. I sent the belts back and he shortened up the lap belt as short as he could. He also recommend that I go with the belt around bar mounting on the shoulder belts. He also knew that I had a hybrid Pro head restraint device. I feel like I researched this a well as I could ---talked to 3 manufactures ---almost no one else has as prone of driving position as LSR. Al I know when the seventh belt was added I immediately "LOVED" how much it helped on a much more vertical seating car than I have now. I am one of the first to go to 9 they are a PITA to adjust and I have modified my car twice to accommodate how much MORE they restrict my movements----I only have been strapped in on the track 6 times but I will assure you the difference in how tight you feel going down the track is HUGE!! I think the change is worth it! Here's :cheers: hoping I never know by testing them!!!
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Neil, I have a hybrid pro and this is the way I understand how to mount my harness in MY CAR I have be through tech by Lee and Scot at El M. and Rex and Tom at USFRA test and tune---It was suggested that I put some of the new less dense foam in my cage area lessen helmet vibration area. I originally had some eyeball buzz caused by the helmet straps because I was set up for a more vertical seating position. I my reclined position the hybrid pro brings little to the table in my opinion, With my 9 point the extensions required now will most likely is not needed---with the 2nd set of straps your upper torso will not lunge forward like a 7 point---but all is good, the more safety help we can get that works the better.
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What is this new "less dense foam" for roll cages and where do we get it? Helmet vibration is not good.
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Here is the problem-- compare the drawing on page 13 of the Schroth catalog with the drawing ( Figure 7 on page 32) in the rule book. I used the Schroth drawing as an example because they are more detailed on how to mount their harness. I have not found any manufacturer that recommends the rule book shoulder harness mounting points when used with a with a HANS device. The rule book shows the mounting points way too low.
I know what the rule book says but there seems to be a conflict between the words and the drawing. I don't want to get it wrong.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Neil I would take your example and point to page 31 about following the manufactures recommendation.. with a 9 point you get the off the shoulder angles and the inner belt to stop you from riding up.