Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: azgearhed on September 22, 2014, 09:49:06 AM
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What are some options for adding an electric/pneumatic release to an existing manual cable parachute system? Right now I have release levers mounted at about eye level on the drivers right, hanging down from the cage.
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http://www.jerrybickel.com/parachutes-and-accessories/pneumatic-parachute-release-jbrc5086.html
That allows you to use the handle if needed.
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Ours is not quite that complicated or expensive... We have an electric release made from a old GM door lock actuator ($2@PnP). The cable backup manually pulls the door lock actuator.
I will always advise that parachutes need to be actuated without removing hands from the wheel.
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We too strongly advocate a release system where the hands do not leave the steering wheel. As both my sons were learning to drive our race car and finding the limits of same it saved their bacon twice as the car started to come around but the pucker factor allowed them to release the chute before the car was all the way around thus was pulled straight. Lee Kennedy gave us a yellow spin sticker at Bonneville after one episode and I protested to him "he didn't spin" Lee replied "it was a partial spin". :-D
Anyway, after seeing how fast things happen at speed you can relate to the length of time it takes to reach for the handle vs. push the button. One other point I'd like to make, as you reach for the parachute release your other hand will also move and it can be extreme in an incident.
JMPOV
The button on the left is the parachute release. The pull in the center is the manual backup.
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Linear actuator with a pull chain. You can pick up one on Flea-bay for less than $100. If you wire it so that it retracts the lever (puts tension on the chain to activate), you can always activate the chute lever by hand in the event of a failure... (unless you install a push chain! :-D )
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Thx-Some good ideas here-the plan IS to mount the control on the steering wheel and I wanted to see what hardware was being used to effect the pulling or pushing action on my existing levers.
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This is pretty close to the ones we use. There is one for controlling the flap angle (it has a potentiometer built in) and the spare we can use for the chute system. While we don't need to log data or know the position of the actuator for chute release, it is nice to use the same in both locations. That way we have a spare mounted in the car at all times.
http://www.pololu.com/product/2304 (http://www.pololu.com/product/2304)
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This is pretty close to the ones we use. There is one for controlling the flap angle (it has a potentiometer built in) and the spare we can use for the chute system. While we don't need to log data or know the position of the actuator for chute release, it is nice to use the same in both locations. That way we have a spare mounted in the car at all times.
http://www.pololu.com/product/2304 (http://www.pololu.com/product/2304)
Are you concerned about the speed...
a maximum speed of 0.5 in/s
... using that for the chute deploy? I'd want something a lot faster, but maybe I misunderstood and you are only using it for the flaps??
Sum
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We use a door popper used on street rods. A 40 lb. was required to pull cable. Our mechanical backup is a second chute with lever. At our speeds (270) one chute is NEVER enough in an emergency.
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Ours is not quite that complicated or expensive... We have an electric release made from a old GM door lock actuator ($2@PnP). The cable backup manually pulls the door lock actuator.
I will always advise that parachutes need to be actuated without removing hands from the wheel.
During the months of lakester tweaking, Don & I kicked around the idea of a steering wheel mounted, button chute deployment system; priority was "nice to have".
however...
Immediately after our last pass chute deployment at WOS, Stainless gave TFA the advice he stated above and we were in a VERY receptive mood; The priority is now = "have to have"
(HTH did SS get down to the 6? so quickly???)
Thanks to azgearhead for starting this topic, TFA is "all ears"! :cheers:
Karl
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I'm working up some concepts in my head to accomplish the button parachute release (is that smoke I smell?) I will post some pictures as it progresses. But first I have to unload the car out of the trailer. I had put the car in the trailer because I was lead to believe there was an lsr event in western Utah later this week. :roll:. And Rob- tell me more about the push chain deal. :evil:
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What about something like this?
http://www.rjracecars.com/Parachute-Air-Release-Kit-209113-Prodview.html (http://www.rjracecars.com/Parachute-Air-Release-Kit-209113-Prodview.html)
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That's the direction I was leaning Doug(electric/pneumatic) -but since I don't have an air bottle in the car right now I am pursuing the electric solenoid config for pushing or pulling on the existing parachute lever. I'll look into the Stainless suggestion of door lock solenoids-see if I can harvest some from the PAP places around here. Any one know what model solenoids would have enough power? I still need to do a pull test with a scale to see whats needed.
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Also, does a launcher help in getting the chute out quicker?
http://www.stroudsafety.com/DragChutes.html (http://www.stroudsafety.com/DragChutes.html)
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Is there a slick way of electrically connecting the steering wheel with the chassis while still allowing the steering wheel to be quickly & completely removed?
Karl
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Is there a slick way of electrically connecting the steering wheel with the chassis while still allowing the steering wheel to be quickly & completely removed?
Karl
I'm going to try to find a momentary switch with a small CAN connector on it to use on the steering wheel, with the lock ring so it can be quickly disconnected - most of the time we put the wheel on the dash though. Don't know if a launcher would improve our current setup-several videos we have at Elmo show the chute blossoming pretty quickly after release.
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Here is a connector I found to give an idea
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Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/QuickCar-50-190-NASCAR-Steering-Wheel-Kill-Switch-/261352485521?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd9d27291&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/QuickCar-50-190-NASCAR-Steering-Wheel-Kill-Switch-/261352485521?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd9d27291&vxp=mtr) perhaps?
Mike
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Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/QuickCar-50-190-NASCAR-Steering-Wheel-Kill-Switch-/261352485521?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd9d27291&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/QuickCar-50-190-NASCAR-Steering-Wheel-Kill-Switch-/261352485521?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd9d27291&vxp=mtr) perhaps?
Mike
Yeah-that would work-but for my application I would rather have the coil cord stay around the column and just have the switch on the wheel. Thanks for the link- Tim
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Is there a slick way of electrically connecting the steering wheel with the chassis while still allowing the steering wheel to be quickly & completely removed?
Karl
Yes, Karl, there is-- I used this method in my street rod that had a removable steering wheel. It was for a horn button on the steering wheel but the same idea could be used for a chute or kill switch.
I used a 1.4" phone jack in the center of the steering column and a phone plug in the center of the steering wheel. It pulls out when the steering wheel is released. The advantage of using a phone plug is that it does not matter how the steering wheel is oriented-- it works any way the steering wheel is put back on.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Is there a slick way of electrically connecting the steering wheel with the chassis while still allowing the steering wheel to be quickly & completely removed?
Karl
Yes, Karl, there is-- I used this method in my street rod that had a removable steering wheel. It was for a horn button on the steering wheel but the same idea could be used for a chute or kill switch.
I used a 1.4" phone jack in the center of the steering column and a phone plug in the center of the steering wheel. It pulls out when the steering wheel is released. The advantage of using a phone plug is that it does not matter how the steering wheel is oriented-- it works any way the steering wheel is put back on.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Neil,
what a great idea! do you have a pic?
Thanks,
Karl
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Steering wheel chute release systems are not new, I ran one on my Top Fuel car in the late 60s - & 70s. It was air operated with a manual over ride., used a one qt. air bottle, a bimba air cyl and a bimba air switch, never had a failure.
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Is there a slick way of electrically connecting the steering wheel with the chassis while still allowing the steering wheel to be quickly & completely removed?
Karl
Yes, Karl, there is-- I used this method in my street rod that had a removable steering wheel. It was for a horn button on the steering wheel but the same idea could be used for a chute or kill switch.
I used a 1.4" phone jack in the center of the steering column and a phone plug in the center of the steering wheel. It pulls out when the steering wheel is released. The advantage of using a phone plug is that it does not matter how the steering wheel is oriented-- it works any way the steering wheel is put back on.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Neil,
what a great idea! do you have a pic?
Thanks,
Karl
I wish I did.
My steering column is a 3/4" DOM steel tube; I used an appropriate sized washer and brazed a retaining nut for the phone jack on the backside before brazing it on to the end of the column. I soldered a wire to the jack terminal (the one that connects to the plug tip) fed it through the hole in the washer and out through a small hole drilled through the side of the column-- forward of the upper bearing or column support. A turn or two around the column allows the column to rotate without pulling on the wire. Make sure that hole is deburred inside & out or it will eventually cut through the insulation. A piece of shrink tubing is helpful to reinforce the wire insulation. Now the quick- release fitting can be fastened to the top of the column. The phone jack is then threaded into the washer & retaining nut. It should be in the exact center of the column.
I made a thin plate to fit between the quick- release and the rear of the steering wheel. I had drilled a hole for the threaded barrel of the phone plug in that plate and used a retaining nut, reinforced with epoxy, and installed the plug. It, too should be in the exact center of the steering wheel mounting hole. The plug & jack should mate when the steering wheel is mounted. The tip connection to the plug then can connect to one terminal of a steering wheel- mounted switch; the other switch terminal then goes to the body of the steering wheel.
This way the switch makes contact from the wire through the steering column to ground (only when the steering wheel is installed, of course). If you need to use two wires instead of one wire & ground, you'll need to insulate both the jack & plug bodies with something like a nylon washer, etc. Make sure your phone jack is not the type that makes contact between its tip & body when the plug is removed... otherwise you'll pop the chute when you pull the steering wheel off! :-o
I hope this is not too confusing.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Also, does a launcher help in getting the chute out quicker?
http://www.stroudsafety.com/DragChutes.html (http://www.stroudsafety.com/DragChutes.html)
We are using one on Hooley's car now and so far like it.
(http://www.stroudsafety.com/Images/Chutes-CompleteSpringLg.jpg)
When you wind that spring in you make sure and stay out of the way.
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/13-Hooley/13-%20chute-4.jpg)
It does launch the chute as seen above when they wanted to see it deploy during inspection,
Sum
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Az, Karl our steering moves about 90 degrees off center both directions, we have an old telephone coil cord like the one in the picture with a computer d connector with a quick disconnect.
When the axle broke at 220 Johnboy felt the car start to come around, hit the button and a half a second later the car was straight ahead of the chute and then it slid and stopped just about the access road between the courses.
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Neil- thanks for sharing the phone plug/jack idea. Seems like a person could even use a stereo plug to cater to a pair of functions with steering wheel mounting.
And- thanks to all for putting the at-hand chute release onto my must-do list.
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Az, Karl our steering moves about 90 degrees off center both directions, we have an old telephone coil cord like the one in the picture with a computer d connector with a quick disconnect.
When the axle broke at 220 Johnboy felt the car start to come around, hit the button and a half a second later the car was straight ahead of the chute and then it slid and stopped just about the access road between the courses.
Thanks Stainless!
BTW: how does it feel to be the "kid" (at 63) in this discussion? (i'm 66) :-D
I am very appreciative on the experience weighing in on this topic!
Neil,
thanks for taking the time to explain how yr plug in arrangement is built :cheers:
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Who sells a good coiled cable that can handle a little current?
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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This is pretty close to the ones we use. There is one for controlling the flap angle (it has a potentiometer built in) and the spare we can use for the chute system. While we don't need to log data or know the position of the actuator for chute release, it is nice to use the same in both locations. That way we have a spare mounted in the car at all times.
http://www.pololu.com/product/2304 (http://www.pololu.com/product/2304)
Are you concerned about the speed...
a maximum speed of 0.5 in/s
... using that for the chute deploy? I'd want something a lot faster, but maybe I misunderstood and you are only using it for the flaps??
Sum
Not if you only have to move .100 to trip the release mech. It also helps to mount the actuator close to the center of rotation for of the chute release handle as the "gearing change" makes it even faster.
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Who sells a good coiled cable that can handle a little current?
http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Lighting-Electrical/Replacement-Cords?searchterm=replacement+cords&navid=4287922629#navid=4287922629+4288122483&searchterm=replacement+cords&sortby=price
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Who sells a good coiled cable that can handle a little current?
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Doug;
If you use a relay, the current in the coiled cord is minimal.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Our lakester has 3 buttons on the wheel. I drive with my left thumb resting on the chute button and move it down about an inch to shift gears and then back on the chute button. When I had a problem about .100 of movement had the chute out. The third button on the right side is used when we run nitrous. All of the buttons connect a ground to a relay so with only 4 wires we run 3 switches. When in doubt, hang it out.
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Thanks, when we were looking for a coiled wire, all I could find was a cord for the handset of an old ATT phone from my shop. Has about three strands of copper in it. I knew there had to be better wires than that.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: