Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => 2017 and before: SW & WF => SpeedWeek 2014 => Topic started by: dw230 on July 22, 2014, 01:08:24 PM
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This paragraph is lifted from another post:
"IMPOUND - The impound area is in the pits adjacent to where the technical inspections are conducted. If any
vehicle has qualified to make the second segment of a record run the next morning by exceeding the existing
record, the vehicle and timing slip MUST be taken directly to the impound area within one hour of the
qualification run. Check in to impound, by presenting your timing slip to the impound officer, who will note your
arrival time and attach the slip to a "Record Certification Card." There is a time limit of up to four hours for
working on your race vehicle while in the impound area. However, the work done must comply with the current
rules. Your time limit begins when you check in. If the race vehicle successfully sets a new record as a result of a
second segment performance (morning run), it must be taken within one hour to the certification area (at the
technical inspection lanes) for engine measurement, body certification and record certification. Give the
certification officer your timing slip to note the arrival time and speeds."
The paragraph contains good info but, lets expand a bit.
To qualify for a return record run you must exceed the current record by .001 MPH. There are no minimums at SW, however there are minimums for the Bonneville 200 MPH Club. Please check with the club at the compound near the pit exit if you are planning for a Red Hat this year.
When you check into Impound please present your timing slip and the white coy of your Entry Form. The official will log you in and place your form in a pile. The tech crew will handle your vehicle as soon as they can. MOTORCYCLE entries, bypass the trailer at the gate and proceed directly to the Motorcycle Tech Trailer.
You have 1 HOUR to check in based on the time stamp on the timing slip. You have 4 HOURS to perform any maintenance needed on your vehicle, this time is based on the check in time. A small sticker will be placed on your vehicle with the stop time noted.
While in Impound your vehicle will be checked for a gas tank seal, if entered in a gas class. The body will be certified and cannot be changed or altered in any way prior to the second run the next morning. IF you have any correspondence from an official concerning modifications to you vehicle be sure to have it available during the certification process. IF YOU WILL NEED GAS for the return run you will have to take an empty gas container to the ERC trailer, purchase the need fuel(gas) and they will seal the container. Back in Impound an official will observe you adding the fuel(gas) and reseal your tank. DO NOT remove any seals unless an official is present.
Please plan ahead for your fuel(gas) consumption.
Please be courteous to your Impound neighbors, it can get very crowded in the area.
If you can perform major engine work, change heads, replace a piston, etc. within the 4 hour period you can do that. You CANNOT change the engine block you qualified with.
The next morning:
Everyone waits for me at Lands End. I will arrive approx. 5:30 - 5:45. We will enter the salt as a group. It is very dark at that time of the morning and I do not want anyone getting lost. You will have 1 hour to prepare your vehicle for the second run, 6 - 7 AM. All times are Utah time, Mountain time. We all proceed to the staring lines(you must run the same course you qualified on unless instructed). The gate will be closed at 7 AM sharp. If you are not out of the gate or moving to it at 7 AM you have lost your opportunity and must qualify again. If you have completed your preparation prior to 7 AM you may leave the Impound and line up in the designated area. Please do not block the gate!
Following your second run you have 1 HOUR to arrive at the tech area under the inspection canopies. . DO NOT return to the Impound area. Depending on the layout you will informed on the correct path to tech area. There will be an official at the end of the line to mark you arrival time on the time slip. Once this has been done send a crew person to the front of the line so that paperwork can be started. MOTORCYCLE competitors will return to the Impound area and proceed directly to the Motorcycle Tech Trailer.
When in final certification the gas tank seal will be checked if you are in a gas class. the body will be checked to see if any modifications have been performed. It is here that the engine will be checked for proper displacement. Please refer to section 1.H for the info concerning measurement. If you do plan on competing in other classes a wire seal can be placed on the engine for later verification. Please have somewhere on the TOP of the engine prepared for a seal. If you do seal for later verification ALL paperwork will be given to you and it then becomes your responsibility. NO paperwork = NO record. No records are valid until the engine displacement is verified. This means that others in your class will qualify on the old record or that no Red Hat can be presented.
When going to the staring line you can leave tarps, tools, jacks, etc. in the Impound. Please pick up any left items by 10 AM. DO NOT leave any vehicles in the area. It will be TOWED. The area cannot accommodate your Uncle's rental.
That pretty much covers the Impound procedure. Please contact me on this site or by email or phone.
Good luck to all, I wish I could just give everyone a record but, it does not work that way.
Dan Warner
Record Certification Officer
SCTA-BNI
dwarner230@yahoo.com
818-998-4435 hm
818-689-4418 cell
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Thank you for that highly informative piece. Really useful for a first timer.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter,
Please contact me if you need help on the salt.
DW
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Dan, I remember the first time I went to Bonneville, it was in 1997, I hauled Jack Whites small motorcycle. He qualified for a record and the next morning we started chasing down some supplies and ice. We just barely got there before 7 AM, I had to use the little room, and you told Jack that he had to be out of the gate by 7, so he pushed the bike out through the gate. Boy that was close, I never made that mistake again. Dan, I sure miss seeing you and visiting with you.
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Try to get back sometime soon Gary.
DW
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Sorry if I'm knit picking, but your "arrival time" that marks the start of your 4 hour work limit, is when your vehicle actually rolls into Impound - not when you reach the counter to check in with the Impound officer. So if you arrive in Impound, go directly to find a spot to set up, lay out your tarp, visit the porta potty, and then go to the counter to check in, you'll find out that you've already used up some of your 4 hours. :-)
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Bob,
Why not jump out of the car and sign in? Let the crew move to the parking spot while you do the paperwork. I don't care if you go to lunch - it is the time when you cross thee Impound line. If you have gotten away with using set up time before checking in I wasn't watching.
DW
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I hope to see you at impound again this year. It's my favorite part of the meet. :-D
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Dan, take good care of my good friend who has helped me for a lot of years, his name is Jerry Hoffman, he is running my old number 787. I think it is a Datson ZX or something like that. He just went 202 at the Ohio Mile.
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Dan, take good care of my good friend who has helped me for a lot of years, his name is Jerry Hoffman, he is running my old number 787. I think it is a Datson ZX or something like that. He just went 202 at the Ohio Mile.
There are three other cars pre-registered for F/BGC. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. :mrgreen:
:cheers:
Mike
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Me too Bobby. Looking forward to discussing all your projects.
DW
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Dan in the past there has been a few(some) cases where a vehicle has had a flat tire or something requiring the crew to return to the pits for a tire or whatever reason, and the one hour time to get to impound couldn't be made and a official stayed with the car, I believe Lee Kennedy and our late friend Capt.Billy did this so they made sure no other work was done before escorting the said vehicle to impound, seemed like a fair thing to do.
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4-BarrelMike, as you know a lot of things can go wrong out there.
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Dan, I do pretty much jump out of the car and go sign in. Just thought I'd mention this for others that might tend to do otherwise. :cheers:
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4-BarrelMike, as you know a lot of things can go wrong out there.
Yes, sir! :cheers:
And if I was a betting man, I'd say the odds are fair that at least one of the four might not make Speedweek. But no one wants that. :-D
Mike
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Hi, Dan -
I'm very close on the upper limit in engine capacity in my class. Pumping may or may nor verify the engine size.
I've drilled the block and a head stud to wire them for a seal.
If the seal is present, and I'm close enough to the maximum to require a take-off of the head, do I have to do so immediately after the first back-up run? Can this instead be done after one is done for the week, provided the seal is undisturbed?
It would be preferable to not have to tear the head off until the week's competing is finished.
And yes, I understand that if something were to happen to the engine before the competition was concluded, and the SCTA was unable to verify the engine displacement, all would be lost.
I wish I could just give everyone a record but, it does not work that way.
And what fun would that be?
Dan, thanks.
I'll see you in impound - might even bring the Midget.
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Thank you for that highly informative piece. Really useful for a first timer.
Regards
Peter
Thanks Dan, that really was good information. I copied it, pasted it on a "Word" document, & printed it so I can bring it with me.
I have one question. I'm going after a record, do I have to inform anyone of my intention, or do I simply check my timing slip & take it & the bike to Impound?
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Subscribed
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...I've drilled the block and a head stud to wire them for a seal.
If the seal is present, and I'm close enough to the maximum to require a take-off of the head, do I have to do so immediately after the first back-up run? Can this instead be done after one is done for the week, provided the seal is undisturbed?
It would be preferable to not have to tear the head off until the week's competing is finished.....
I'll be interested in the answer but my thought is.....let's say I'm running the same class and you qualify and back-up a record run but haven't had the engine passed at that point and want to keep running. Is it them assumed by myself and SCTA that is the new record?
What if I run over the existing record after you but less than you ran and then have the car/engine certified. Do I have a record and can go home or do I have to wait until later in the week to see if you passed?
I realize you might not have anyone else in your class, but that isn't always the case. When Ruth and I helped Sparky when he got in the 300 mph club Seth ran just behind us and there was a good chance he was going to run faster. If that would of happened Sparky would of still had his 'hat' even though both records went in the book the same day. As it happened I think Seth ran faster the next day.
I'd say get the record, have it certified, seal the motor and then keep running and you won't have to teardown again, but DW will have the final say on this :-D,
Sum
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OK,
Glen,
If there is a problem making the 1 hour Impound time have someone come inform me while the problem is being resolved. It is best to do this before arriving in the Impound late.
Chris,
You can seal the engine after setting the record and before measurement. Your record will not be valid until certified and anyone running the class qualifies on the old record. You will have all the paperwork in your possession. Even if we cut the meet short(I will not say rain out) bring the car to Impound so we can take the head off for direct measurement.
Peter,
You do not have to tell anyone of your record intentions. Follow all the rules, check your time slip and come to Impound.
Sum,
No the sealed engine cannot hold a record. The engine MUST be certified to become the new record holder. If someone in your class does qualify and set and certify a record slower than the sealed record that entry becomes the new class standard. The original(sealed) record will have to requalify on the new record. This is because the original did not qualify on the class record speed.
DW
The fastest(certified) in class at the end of the event becomes the class bar setter.
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So, with all this talk of "sealing an engine", what exactly is done to seal it?
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Sum,
No the sealed engine cannot hold a record. The engine MUST be certified to become the new record holder. If someone in your class does qualify and set and certify a record slower than the sealed record that entry becomes the new class standard. The original(sealed) record will have to requalify on the new record. This is because the original did not qualify on the class record speed.
Thanks for the update and also the general impound data.
I guess I didn't word my other response correctly. Let me see if I get this.
I was trying to say that if Chris qualifies for a record, backs it up and then, right then, has the motor certified that he would have the record and could have the motor sealed and not have to tear it down again if he went out and set the record higher during the meet.
Is that correct?
Also it sounds like if he is sure no one else is running his class at the meet if he qualified and backed it up he could have the motor sealed and torn down (if it didn't blow) latter during the meet. But doing this he is taking a chance if someone else is running and also sets a record before it is torn down??
Thanks for bearing with me on this,
Sum
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Okay - this all makes sense from an integrity standpoint.
I'll bring a spare head gasket.
Scenario 2.
A qualifying run is made. It is backed up. The engine goes through a tear-down, and is certified as being in compliance. The engine is then reassembled and sealed.
I trust there is no further capacity certification necessary to run and possibly bump the record during the meet, provided the seal remains unbroken?
And -
I imagine a wire tie sealing with some sort of embossed metal stamp is provided by SCTA?
Have you got photo examples of an engine seal and how they're typically installed?
Thanks again, Dan.
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My engines have always been sealed by running the seal wire through a pan bolt or between two drilled pan bolts. Any way so that you could not remove the pan without breaking the seal.
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Mine have been thru two front cover bolts.
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To seal an engine, someone from Tech threads a wire through a hole in your head/block/pan, and then they press on a lead seal (like a ferrule) with some numbers/letters with engine class code I think. That's done after they confirm your displacement.
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Just a curious question I have about inspection.
Is it common to find that motors don't meet the rules? Just wondering if it is a 1 out of 100, or 1 out of 5 sort of deal.
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To seal an engine, someone from Tech threads a wire through a hole in your head/block/pan, and then they press on a lead seal (like a ferrule) with some numbers/letters with engine class code I think. That's done after they confirm your displacement.
When we seal an engine in impound, it will get the lead seal with the letters "SCTA" stamped into it as well as "charm" that designates the engine class.
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Sum & Chris,
Yes and Yes
Jesse,
Only remember one that failed displacement check. It was a Ford bought from a bone yard and the entrant was told it was X displacement. Tuned out it was too large for the class entered because you cannot tell one displacement from another from the outside of some Ford products.
Mike,
Thanks for the explanation.
DW
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When I had 4 valve engine with center plug, Dan, with a tricky device (read tool he could put in hole to measure bore and stroke) was able to certify engine. More recently with 2 valve, have pumped it and though also, as Chris is, close to the upper limit, it always pumped legal. Hope that holds still if I make it to impound where I expect to see the Midget. :)
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Mike,
Thanks for the explanation.
DW
No worries. I felt comfortable chipping in on that one! :cheers:
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If you find that you are going to have trouble making it to impound within the one hour time limit send someone down to the impound trailer. Do not speed! Explain the problem to an official. Do not start to work on the vehicle! I would go sit in the air conditioned tow vehicle and wait. We don't want to see a big crowd around the injured car. Do not go through the pits! Go directly to impound. Send someone back to your pit area get your tarp or tools or mother-in-law. You don't have to work on your vehicle as soon as it is in the impound area. Get it over the tarp and go have breakfast or lunch or what ever. Tell the official you are leaving and check back in when the 4 hour work period begins. This is not our first rodeo! Better not take my word for it- I JUST PICK UP THE TRASH!
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Sum & Chris,
Yes and Yes
Jesse,
Only remember one that failed displacement check. It was a Ford bought from a bone yard and the entrant was told it was X displacement. Tuned out it was too large for the class entered because you cannot tell one displacement from another from the outside of some Ford products.
Mike,
Thanks for the explanation.
DW
Thanks DW, I was always curious about that
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Do not go through the pits! Go directly to impound.
This deserves to be said twice.
If you tow the car through the pits, or even behind the pits, anywhere except on the return roads when coming from your qualifying run then don't even bother going to impound. It doesn't matter if you stop or not, it is assumed you did and your qualifier is thrown out. Go straight to impound, check in and leave the vehicle, then go to the pits to get your stuff and tell Uncle Bob to come with all the tools.
Don't stop by your pits to drop anybody off.
Don't stop by your pits to pick up your log book.
Don't stop by your pits to get the ground tarp and EZ up.
Qualifying for a record is too hard to get it torpedoed by something like this.
JR
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JR is 100% correct.
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Dan -
Is plugging in oil heaters or charging a battery before a back-up run considered working on the car?
Thanks.
Chris
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No, that is just warm up prep. Don't think I'd try to remove a valve cover. Chris you're excused. :cheers:
Ron
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Ron,
Agreed.
DW
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Thanks JR529,
I forgot to mention that in my initial post.
DW
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Warming oil is usually done in impound between 6:00 am and your pack up run at 7:00.