Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: FoundSoul on May 09, 2014, 09:53:46 PM
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Trying to find some tires with some size options so I can step up from the 225/50/15 drag radials that I ran last week to something that gives me at least a hope of hooking up and staying straight.
Hoosier R6?
Michelin Pilot Super Sport?
Drag Radials? (a lot of you run MT D/R's right?)
I'm making right at 758whp to the tire, and couldn't use much throttle at all at last weeks event without blowing the tires off. I ended up with a best run of 177mph, but the car has a lot more in it if I can hook up and keep it straight, part of that equation is more tire. Part of it is suspension and aero work. Trying to sort the tire now....
I know a lot of guys run drag radials-- but I've heard of blowouts occurring due to using them outside of spec-- has that been happening?
What are the safest tires that will actually grip and I can run with 750+ whp on tap and at speeds of 200+mph? Probably looking for something right around 275 wide, maybe a hair more. Probably 26" tall max.
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most everyone runs a Mickey who has anything fast. It seems like if you stick with a 15"-16" they do ok. Mickey will say you cannot run their tires. My opinion for liability sake is anything but a nascar tire will kill you. That being said, we run a 275/50/15 around 27psi. The max at 44psi proved undriveable in other cars (ive never had the balls to try). I know of 3 other cars that run between 25-30 psi. What i do know is based on the picture at the finish line, when we would run around 20, we would get the wrinkle in the sidewall pretty hard which is bad for sustained periods. the higher pressure seems to hook as good but does not cause the wrinkle which also stabilized the pressure for us from the beginning of the run to the end. We used to start at 20 and finish at over 30. Now we start at 25-27 and don't go over 30, seems better, but i'm just giving you our experience and not making any suggestions as what you should or shouldn't do.
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Thanks for the feedback David, that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for your thoughts on what you do that you'd never recommend anyone else do ;).
I can tell you what greater than 44psi feels like with those BFG T/A Drag Radials... scary! I didn't feel comfortable any faster than 155mph until I brought the pressures down for my last run to 42psi and went 177, still squirrely but better. And I now know that was still too much pressure... I'll fit a fatter tire (those BFGs were also just 225's) and try out some lower pressures in that 25-35psi range-- then if we dial in the suspension a bit better we should be able to step it up a good bit at the July meet, which is the next time I plan to make it out.
Thanks again!
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Looking into Mickeys... which tires do you run that you would never recommend anyone else run but that work fine for you? ;)
Mickey ET Drag Radials appear to all be too tall for my car, start around 29" tall.
ET Street Radial (or Radial II) have lots of sizes available.
ET Street Radial Pro -- basically a radial slick, only available in one size: 275/60/15 (which might fit, gotta check)
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The Mickeys we run are ~28" tall. I mentioned
them on your FB post; brand new set for sale @
295/45/17... PM me if you're interested.
We run an identical set to those (ET drag radial)
at over 200 with no issues. Definitely not max
PSI, but not drag PSI either. 25-30 depending
on track temperature.
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Are there any street tires rated for 200 plush MPH? I assume like bike,car tire speed rating has to be at least equal to the class record ?
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Rule book says VR,WR,YR or ZR are good for up to 225 MPH
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These...
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.php?item=ETStreetRadial
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Correction- ours are Street Radial II's,
M/T has an OD of 27.2"...
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Thanks Mike/Luke-- and Luke I'll let you know if it looks like I can fit a 295, that might be tough, will measure soon....
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Looks like the biggest tire I can fit will be a 275/50/15 unless I lift the back of the car some and let them hang out, which I'd rather not do. I think that 275 should do alright though.
Talked to Diamond Racing Wheels today, they're going to make a set of wheels in the proper offset to fit these.
Still working through tire choice... these three are available in 275/50/15
Mickey Thompson ET Street Radial -- I'm afraid these are a hair too tall -- 26.2". I'd have to raise the rear a bit to fit these to keep them from scraping the fender arches if I hit a bump...
Nitto NT555R - 25.71" tall
Hoosier R6 - 25.7" tall
Either of those should fit I think, might be close, if I have to lift the rear it won't be much.
Thoughts on these Nittos and Hoosiers?
I called Nitto, his corporate response was not to use them over 1/2mile. I asked for his personal thoughts and he said I'd be fine. Haven't talked to Hoosier yet, but I expect they'd say similar.
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nitto's are shit, crap, dookie, poop, ice skates, ice cubes on an ice rink. buy the mickeys make them fit. I dead hook with 800hp with LEAF SPRINGS on my mickeys.
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At Mojave Mile the only tires allowed over 200mph is the ZR with the Y in brackets (Y). Tech allows those to run up to 220mph. If the Y is not in brackets then the tires is disallowed over 200mph. Hoosier R6s were OK to 240mph.
Drag Radials are not allowed over 200mph as they have the slower speed designation (no brackets).
When I spoke to Hoosier they told me that THEY do not recommend any of their tires over 200mph and the R6s and R1s they don't recommend over 200mph.
Goodyear said their drag tires are unsafe for more than 1/4 mile racing and not approved for 200mph+.
Maybe you guys can run those slow rated tires but ... http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35
shows the only street tire rated for more than 186mph is the ZR (Y) tires. Tire rack has the ratings and meanings on the linked page above.
Not sure of Wilmington ... Hope this info helps?
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nitto's are Subaru, crap, dookie, poop, ice skates, ice cubes on an ice rink. buy the mickeys make them fit. I dead hook with 800hp with LEAF SPRINGS on my mickeys.
^^^ Truth. If you can't fit a 26" drag radial you won't be
able to fit most LSR specific (salt) tires, either. Shoehorn
those suckers in... I've run the same Mickey's for years,
they still hook like crazy.
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Remember also that the tires will grow some at speed. I had Bonneville Mickey Thompsons grow 1-1.5" diameter at speed with 75lbs air in them. You need radial clearance for that all around the wheel well, not just at the top for bumps.
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Thanks all... I'll skip on the ice skates I suppose...
As for not being able to fit 26" tires for Bonneville... My Bonneville tires are 5" wide, so 28" tall isn't a problem. It's just the concrete track tires where it gets tight as they're more than twice as wide. The fender lips are already rolled for maximum clearance, I can't mod the body further due to class restrictions AFAIK, so I can pretty much only go up in ride height to make more room if that's what's needed... or run a narrower tire. I was blowing the 225 drag radials off when I finally gave it some throttle in 4th gear at 170mph, I need more tire... 255 might do it, but I'd like to fit the 275's if I can.
I may just have to put a little more rake in the car in order to fit Mickeys or R6's. Maybe I'll buy both and see if there's any real difference in fitment.
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Looks like the biggest tire I can fit will be a 275/50/15 unless I lift the back of the car some and let them hang out, which I'd rather not do. I think that 275 should do alright though.
Talked to Diamond Racing Wheels today, they're going to make a set of wheels in the proper offset to fit these.
Still working through tire choice... these three are available in 275/50/15
Mickey Thompson ET Street Radial -- I'm afraid these are a hair too tall -- 26.2". I'd have to raise the rear a bit to fit these to keep them from scraping the fender arches if I hit a bump...
Nitto NT555R - 25.71" tall
Hoosier R6 - 25.7" tall
Either of those should fit I think, might be close, if I have to lift the rear it won't be much.
Thoughts on these Nittos and Hoosiers?
I called Nitto, his corporate response was not to use them over 1/2mile. I asked for his personal thoughts and he said I'd be fine. Haven't talked to Hoosier yet, but I expect they'd say similar.
We run the 275/50/15 mickey. No manufacture will recommend a tire for the mile. Basically they say if you do run them monitor the pressures for gain. You want the least amount of pressure gain with the most amount of grip.
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Just ordered up a pair of 275/50/15 Mickey ET Street's and a pair of Diamond Racing 15x9" wheels with what I believe to be the proper backspacing. Thanks for all the help guys!
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Make sure you run the backing plates with the diamonds if required. They don't tell you when they are so you should ask.
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Backing plates? I thought that was just for aluminum rims?
<Running off to find a rulebook...
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On a separate note.... the Mickey ET Street 275/50/15's came in.... and there's no way they are going to fit without making changes that cause other problems. I should have trusted my measurements I suppose, but was worth a try. I'd have to lift the car 2 full inches in the rear to fit them. Or widen out the rear fenders a LOT, which isn't legal....
Back to the drawing board... and MT doesn't offer much in a smaller tire. Looks like Hoosier R6 in 245/50/15 may be my best bet. It's 1.6" more treadwidth over what I had, and should fit without issue...
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On a separate note.... the Mickey ET Street 275/50/15's came in.... and there's no way they are going to fit without making changes that cause other problems. I should have trusted my measurements I suppose, but was worth a try. I'd have to lift the car 2 full inches in the rear to fit them. Or widen out the rear fenders a LOT, which isn't legal....
Back to the drawing board... and MT doesn't offer much in a smaller tire. Looks like Hoosier R6 in 245/50/15 may be my best bet. It's 1.6" more treadwidth over what I had, and should fit without issue...
235/60/15 is way smaller. they have a 255 also send them back.
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Width is much better on those, height is difficult though.... especially on the 27.1" tall 255's.
275's are going back... working on a better solution...
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Width is much better on those, height is difficult though.... especially on the 27.1" tall 255's.
275's are going back... working on a better solution...
The 235s wouldnt be too bad. Would be better then the ice skate BFGs you have.
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BFG's are out for sure. At least part of the problem I had with them was too much pressure, but alas, I got some less than ideal advice somewhere along the way.
Are the Hoosier R6's that bad? I can fit 245's that way... they're pricey, but whatever the best solution is...
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BFG's are out for sure. At least part of the problem I had with them was too much pressure, but alas, I got some less than ideal advice somewhere along the way.
Are the Hoosier R6's that bad? I can fit 245's that way... they're pricey, but whatever the best solution is...
No clue on the hoosiers probably not a sizable difference between the two. I would go with the mickey 235s before I tried something not proven.
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Some wheels that diamond makes need to be run with a backing plate between the wheel and hub if the hub is a smaller diameter then the wheel flange. You should confirm this with diamond before you run those wheels. We ran their wheels and had wheel stud failure due to this.
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For all of you who run steel wheels and alum. hubs like the Wilwood Disc Brake kits:
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Joe;
Circle Track magazine had a tech article on this subject a number of years ago. The basic reason for the wheel's needing to be seated against the hub is that the wheel surface is slightly "dished" and this acts like a Bellville washer when the lug nuts are tightened. This spring force resists loosening of the lug nuts under vibration and stress.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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The big issue is that it cracks the hub from the stud to the outside edge. We have seen it several times over the last several years.
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Thanks Joe-- I've got a pair of 11961's I'll put on there when the new wheels come in, I hope my backspacing measurements still work with the extra .20" of material, we'll see....
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You can look at the Nitto NT05R for sizes other than 15". The NT05R's are much grippier than the NT555's. Have ran the Mickey's and NT05R's of the same 18" size and they are comparable in grip.
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We have run our 757 Camaro with the "A" motor which puts out about 850hp at Wilmington with shaved 205/55/16 pZero Rosso, at Loring with the same tire, at Mojave with the pZero and with the Goodyear 28" Landspeed tire and finally at the Texas Mile with 17" rims and the Hoosier R6. All runs in excess of 200 mph in the mile, 215-224 in the 1.5 mile. Unquestionably, the best grip is with the Hoosiers. Because of differing tire requirements between tracks, we had to choose different tires for different tracks. Unrestricted, our choice would always be the Hoosiers. Virtually NO wheelspin.
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As much as I hate to admit it , in the drag racing world if you want to win you don't want BFG. This from a guy who works for Michelin ( who makes BFG ). Mickeys rule. There is no better tire for traction. Too bad they are not rated for the mile. You better be careful. Checking for pressure rise is a good indicator. Also you can check sidewall temp. It is the sidewall that is the weak link in drag radials. There is thermodynamic stuff going on in all tires. Without getting to technical street tires can dissipate heat faster then it is generated. Drag radials can't
Fred
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While drag radials certainly don't have the "lasting power" of street tires, that's not really the issue, or is it?
From a safety standpoint, of course, no one wants a blowout at any speed, but there isn't/shouldn't be the
expectation of longevity on any part being pushed to its limit. That being said, we run a 295/40/17 M/T drag
radial (ET Street II) on our Camaro at a median (~25) psi. Checking tread, pressure rise, sidewall temp, etc.
are all best practices while racing; great point on that Fheckro. Ours have approximately 30 miles on them
and have held up very well.
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We agree with Luke. Just purchased a new pair of M/T drag radials for the Geezer 2. See you in September.
Best Regards,
Geo Turner
for the Geezers