Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: Cameradude on May 07, 2014, 06:37:03 PM
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:-D :-) FYI. Tonight on Nat Geo Channel (276 on Directv) is premiering their documentary on going fast in a straight line called "breaking Barriers". It's on tonight at 8PM EDT and 5Pm PDT. I haven't seen it all but trailer looks interesting. supposed to be mostly vintage stuff. I'll be watching. Check it out
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:-D :-) FYI. Tonight on Nat Geo Channel (276 on Directv) is premiering their documentary on going fast in a straight line called "breaking Barriers". It's on tonight at 8PM EDT and 5Pm PDT. I haven't seen it all but trailer looks interesting. supposed to be mostly vintage stuff. I'll be watching. Check it out
Thanks,just saw this at 6:30 PDT but it reruns at 10
JL222
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Most of it was a commerical for Hennesey (SP) A little about early LSR and Breedlove etc.
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Yes, another Hennessey Informercial. Only the Two Headed Bat Boy gets more ink in the press.
...
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Too bad Nat Geo didn't come through with their promise of real LSR drama.
If you really want to see LSR action, watch these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PFEnzhP9Y4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOFVUNoT5wE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmdffpaO4Vo
The last American team to set the absolute world land speed record.
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I don't know why I did a phone interview and sent them NAE footage. They didn't mention the Aussie Invader or Bloodhound either.
Oh well, that's the way it goes!
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They had Jim Miller sitting in a chair for about 1.5 hs at the GNRS. He got maybe 12-15 second of voice over. I hate this tv crap.
DW
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But it's nice to know that Lotus is now putting 427ci blown engines in the Elise! (aka Venom GT 'production' car)
Can't wait to see them at the showrooms next year.
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Golly Gee.... Didn't realize Hennessey was so involved in LSR. Eye opening. I would prefer more LSR and less Hen commercial.
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Is it a true production car 500 built, I doubt it. It was a one way run on the space shuttle runway. How was it timed, it is a Guinnes books record according their statement. just wondering. Bring it to the salt and see if it can get enough traction to qualify and back it up with a two way avg.Still is it a true production car? :-o :cheers:
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It's not a production car by any standards that i know of. On the show it seemed to be timed by GPS or some other on board system. The show was a disappointment to me. Pure wast of time.
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Best part was Breedlove recounting the 600mph record. Not gonna lie, one of my eyeballs tried to leak.
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Maybe it is fast... but it sure is ugly!
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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WORLD’S FASTEST PRODUCTION CAR? REALLY?
FIA has not done everything correctly and without criticism over the years. But, it (and its predecessors) has done a commendable job for over a century maintaining legitimacy of world and international land speed records. The vehicle classes and record distances and times are carefully defined and universally understood. The record event rules are clear and readily followed. BNI is similarly respected in their more limited venue.
However, the Nat Geo chapter “Breaking Barriers” lacks credibility. Mediacom and Bandits Brothers, the producers, have foisted on the uninformed public an infomercial as a documentary subject.
It is quite disturbing that the producers set a Hennessy Performance commercial against a backdrop of actual LSR achievements in an attempt to create authenticity for its premise, a “world record” for “top speed” with a “production automobile”. None of that is demonstrably factual.
What sort of a record is claimed? A momentary maximum speed measured by a (Racelogic VBOX 3i) GPS (calibrated?) operated by the record claimant. Who certified the achievement? Hennessy claimed they broke Bugatti’s record. That isn’t even the record that Bugatti claimed! See Sunday Times 04032014.
At least Bugatti used an independent speed certifying body, TUV, to proclaim their record average speed run over a one kilometer distance in both directions. Guinness World Records, at least, claims those are important requirements for claiming the record. Why not FIA? Hmmmm!
Apparently, there is not even consensus the Hennessy Venom GT or the Bugatti Veyron (whose “record” was allegedly broken) are actually production automobiles. See this topic of discussion at the Guinness World Records website. Guinness World Records? Oh my God!
It is of no importance that commercial entities claim some made-up “world record” for million dollar toys. What really sticks in my craw is the producers of this con job using the hard-earned credibility of Xydias (my hero), Breedlove, and Andy Green (balls of titanium) to validate their questionable enterprise.
This infomercial is, in my opinion, an insult to everyone in this landracing community and all real land speed racers who ever lived. I guess that I’m just a grumpy old man.
If you missed the infomercial, Youtube links are attached.
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I finally saw the whole NGC TV show and, frankly, it left a bad taste in my mouth. The historical footage, as little as it was, was interesting. So was the part with the LSR true pioneers-- Xydias, Breedlove, & Green. These self-promoting "reality" shows are anything but reality. More and more, TV seems to be promoting dishonesty.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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It's TV Neil. :-D :-D :-D
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Yeah, I know...The sad thing is that it didn't used to be like this. No wonder fewer & fewer people are watching TV.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Reality always conflicts with the media's version of events! :x :-(
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What bothers me about this most is that aero of land vehicles is one area that only LSR and ultra-high efficiency vehicles really do well. The Hennesey is a brick on wheels, and it is being presented as some fantastic example of modern car aerodynamics. Nothing could be further from the truth. Take it off the pavement and put it on the salt and it would get beaten by LSR cars with a fraction of their HP.
Most people here know what I think of blunt tails, the Hennesey has a much fatter asz than we would ever want to see on the salt.
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Blue, how you tempt many of us here -- to make a comment about seeing a fat . . . on the salt. I can think of a few of 'em that might be worth mentioning. Discretion here will be appreciated, boys. :roll: :roll:
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Folks - this show was never intended to be an LSR program. As it was explained to me by the producer and director it was a chance to show how people approach mechanical challenges in a variety of motorsports segments. The idea was to show how a barrier could be broken with tenacity and hard work -- something every LSR team understands.
Instead of trying bad mouth the program, I chose to be part of it to foster a connection with the general public. It worked. The comments from dozens of people who are not involved with LSR were thrilled with the show and most all told me they came to understand why people want to break records at Bonneville (this last part because they know my affiliation) and many were inspired to find out more about LSR on line. They were not enamored with Mr. Hennesey as much as they were with the process.
My part was to not only comment on screen but make sure they did not honk-up the LSR history as film people often do. And yes, I am painfully aware of and saddened by the lack of Blue Flame data, there was no time, nor footage to get clearance for in time for the New York preview by the time I reviewed the director's cut. I opted instead to ensure that what WAS in the footage was accurate.
I am most pleased with the entire Bandito Brothers and Mediacom staff who exhibited nothing but professionalism and respect for motorsports and were quick to admit they knew nothing about. Every suggestion was fully vetted and all errors were corrected without complaint. I am particularly pleased with Frank Lockhart being incorporated into the show.
We want these people to come back, to revisit LSR and tell another story about breaking SALT barriers. They are wonderful storytellers!
As for the crabbing about the Venom -- he's the rub boys and girls. . . .where do super tuner people go for a record?
FIA's Dennis Dean and I determined Hennessy would have to compete with George Poteet's Speed Demon. That will never happen with more than a 200MPH spread. I suggested the Sporting Committee open a dialogue to discuss where such cars might fit into the FIA record breaking matrix. Yes, these vehciles are special construction, but Venom and others like it, are street legal, so perhaps that might be the defining factor for a new class. This is ONLY talk. I AM NOT involved in any way with Hennessy and only met the guy and his wife in NYC after premiere. What I believe should be done is find a way to be more inclusive with the many super tuners and builders who have ONLY Guinness to approach for any type of recognition. Think about that and remember why the 200MPH Club was started more than a half-century ago.
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FIA's Dennis Dean and I determined Hennessy would have to compete with George Poteet's Speed Demon. That will never happen with more than a 200MPH spread. I suggested the Sporting Committee open a dialogue to discuss where such cars might fit into the FIA record breaking matrix. Yes, these vehciles are special construction, but Venom and others like it, are street legal, so perhaps that might be the defining factor for a new class.
Your going to have to define "Street Legal". Most if not all of these are not even close to street legal here in the USA. Street legal means it has to pass current emissions in the form it was raced in and the Hennessy car was clearly not that. Changing the calibration alone that runs the engine is a no, no and as the Federal Government and State governments are looking for income They have been issuing fines and grabbing cars right and left. While I agree there needs to be a place for them calling them street legal isn't it.
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So you were hired by them and can give us the word that they and their work is okay?
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So you were hired by them and can give us the word that they and their work is okay?
Sounded that way to me too... I feel so much better about it now with that info coming from such a trusted source :roll: :|
Maybe it can run in the new NASCAR FIA class, sounds like it fits the bill
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Some are rather presumptuous in their thinking and commenting.
No one "hired me." No one paid Breedlove, or Penske, or Alex Xydias. Understand that most EVERY interview is done free-of-charge. We were all happy to help the bigger storyline and will get a copy of the show as "payment." We have NO IDEA what Hennessy's arrangement was, if you are curious, go ask him.
"Street legal" is straight-forward in transportation, but to help those struggling, it means capable of being licensed, registered and driven on the public roads. As for the term "production" car, that definition has ebbed and flowed throughout the automotive world for decades and will doubtless continue to do so.
As for OBD emission cut points, that also radically changes with the geographic location of "non-attainment" areas. There are places in the USA where no emission tests are required and others where the NoX, CO and Hydrocarbons are barely tolerated. Further, you can legally change the tune of a emission controlled vehicle when it being operated in a racing scenario. The vehicle must be returned to compliance for public roads. Drag racers have been doing this for years although I venture to guess not all "detune" their rides for the road.
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Velocity... Any car can inter at Bville and run '' time only'' as long as it passes the safety requirements and no class is available.
This would give them a legitimate time slip. NOT an estimated GPS time or rpm related time. Based on what they think tire growth or wheel slippage might be. YOU should know this.
It would not be a record but a legitimate time slip, and if one could make it 5 miles to exit trap, a top speed time
JL222
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To me "street legal" means that there is a license plate on the car.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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"Street legal" is straight-forward in transportation, but to help those struggling, it means capable of being licensed, registered and driven on the public roads. As for the term "production" car, that definition has ebbed and flowed throughout the automotive world for decades and will doubtless continue to do so.
As for OBD emission cut points, that also radically changes with the geographic location of "non-attainment" areas. There are places in the USA where no emission tests are required and others where the NoX, CO and Hydrocarbons are barely tolerated. Further, you can legally change the tune of a emission controlled vehicle when it being operated in a racing scenario. The vehicle must be returned to compliance for public roads. Drag racers have been doing this for years although I venture to guess not all "detune" their rides for the road.
Well we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Street LEGAL has a meaning and if your going to have a class limited by saying it must be Street Legal what was done doesn't fit the bill. The car as raced cannot be sold anywhere in the USA today, it breaks just about every federal and state law when it comes to what is required, so the excuse of it being OK in some racing venues still does not make it street legal in any state in the USA.
The federal government would grab that car just as they have been others lately as they are pushing more and more and the fines they have been handing out lately are in the millions of dollars to manufactures. Look I'm all for racing but that car is NOT anywhere close to Street Legal in any part of the USA and Hennessy knows it.
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Come on guys, that thing is as street legal as any of the NASCAR cars... maybe more legal than some :roll:
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The Venom is neither a production car, nor a street car.
I didn't see an airbag in the removable steering wheel, which is required for production, and we must drive by Ambush Emission Sniffers that check our tail pipe emissions and need to pass emissions to register/re-register a car.
It's simply a tuner car with lights and a plate.
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good grief boys. . .
I never said Venom WAS street legal, only that a class might be considered FOR street legal.
And THAT morphs from town to town, so the urinating Olympics is in full swing.
I don't have, nor do I want a favorite in this fight.
What I DO want is to bring the outsiders into the FIA|SCTA|USFRA|ECTA|LTA fold. And not just some goofy "time only" patronizing chit, it need to pit these folks heads-up against themselves.
You will remember that the first Speedweek excluded many vehicles and people. Today, most are included, but not all.
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good grief boys. . .
I never said Venom WAS street legal, only that a class might be considered FOR street legal.
And THAT morphs from town to town, so the urinating Olympics is in full swing.
I don't have, nor do I want a favorite in this fight.
What I DO want is to bring the outsiders into the FIA|SCTA|USFRA|ECTA|LTA fold. And not just some goofy "time only" patronizing chit, it need to pit these folks heads-up against themselves.
You will remember that the first Speedweek excluded many vehicles and people. Today, most are included, but not all.
If you knew anything about the SCTA/BNI you would know there is a class for ''these folks'' same as the Hot Rod Drag Week were the Hennessy car wouldn't make a pimple on there Acura.
You do read Hot Rod? Its where the worlds fastest street cars are required to race 5 times at 4 different dragstrips over 5 days driving on public roads to the different strips. Average top et wins their class. Top avg 6.83 at 213
with best of 6.78 and 217mph.
JL222
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And all the time I was thinking you guys were talking about Hennessy whiskey!.
Some say its Cognac. :-D
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When my point is so misunderstood the only left to do is ignore the crabbing and have a shot of "Fireball" Cinnamon whiskey.
Cheers!
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When my point is so misunderstood the only left to do is ignore the crabbing and have a shot of "Fireball" Cinnamon whiskey.
Cheers!
So your point is Not a place to pit ''these folks'' head's up against themselves?
NOT to be a boy urinating, goofy time only patronizing crabber, the point seems clear.
JL222