Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Boostedballs on April 21, 2014, 01:43:51 PM
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I'm in the planning and parts gathering stage of a front wheel drive lakester build and I'm looking for feedback and advise on it. Not sure if this should be in the build diaries section or not because I have not started building squat yet. I'm backing out of my Monza project because I figure that I can go faster in a lakester for the same money.
I'm picturing the front wheels sticking out of the body and the rear wheels tucked inside, like a backwards trike-looking thing. Driver seated right behind the engine. The exhaust and turbo system will be mounted right over the trans. Cooling water, batteries,etc mounted right behind the driver.
-Big Chevy or LS series Chevy mounted backwards.
-TH400 or 4l80E ???
-Quick change axle mounted upside down or some type of transfer case; U-joints at steering spindles from a Jeep Cherokee or Chevy s-10 mounted with air bags or leaf springs.
-Torsion rear suspension like the type used on trailers. Tucked inside of the body.
OR, should I ditch the FWD idea and go RWD for simplicity?
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how fast do you want to go/record? plenty of 4 cyl/FWD turbo thingys out there that will make 1000hp.
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If the rear wheels are inside the body it becomes a streamliner.
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Read Lakester again... sketch out what you are thinking... A FWD lakester can be doable
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I want to go as fast as my wallet can take me without having to live on top ramen and macaroni and cheese.
Yeah, I guess it would be a streamliner with the rear wheels tucked in. Is there a "streamliner with training wheels" class? :-P I really don't care what class or category it fits into but I would like to see what 300mph feels like. I think I can make that happen with a big cube Chevy and a turbo.
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You might want to take a look in Build Diaries for "New Guy- New Bellytank Lakester". This build was a front wheel drive lakester.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3011.0.html
Bill
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Your only issue is you must build to the record in class... 300 to 400 MPH range equipment puts you in the ramen and mac range unless you already have a lot of money (that you are about to spend)
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Ask an engineer that's familiar with the laws of physics regarding weight shift, combined with wind resistance.
This crew has done some amazing things, but when you watch their utube, you can hear wheel-spin.
www.blacksaltracing.com (http://www.blacksaltracing.com)
Rear wheel drive, or 4 wheel drive; (Twice the traction, and 10 times the problems); has been the accepted format since man's memory knoweth not the alternative.
It took the JCB diesel crew most of a week to get all the computers shaking hands to get to their record.
They had a huge crew and many megabucks; world's fastest man on wheels, etc.
Plan a budget, list everything you can possibly think of; then add a whole bunch; say another 50% to be conservative.
If you exceed your dreams with $1.98 left over, Carmen's is a good place to party.
Good Luck and regards...
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Probably the fastest FWD lakester is George Johnson's Saltosaurus which at one time held the record at around 273-4 mph. I have attached a couple of pictures, note the exhaust. George has been talking about bringing it out again with a few mods and is looking for 300.
Rex
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Ask an engineer that's familiar with the laws of physics regarding weight shift, combined with wind resistance.
This crew has done some amazing things, but when you watch their utube, you can hear wheel-spin.
www.blacksaltracing.com (http://www.blacksaltracing.com)
Rear wheel drive, or 4 wheel drive; (Twice the traction, and 10 times the problems); has been the accepted format since man's memory knoweth not the alternative.
If you exceed your dreams with $1.98 left over, Carmen's is a good place to party.
Plan a budget, list everything you can possibly think of; then add a whole bunch; say another 50% to be conservative.
Good Luck and regards...
Not sure what you're getting at there Tex.
FWD allows you to more easily obey the simple needs of getting a car to go fast and I reckon you've picked the greatest example there with Keith Copeland's car. Rear wheel drive suits many of the demands that a road car faces, but when you take towing and power over-steer out of the equation FWD looks pretty good. It puts the heavy stuff at the front, check, over the drive wheels, bonus! Unless of course you want to put the engine down the back :roll:.........
No doubt it would make for some interesting moments when you're out of shape at high speed, but every design has it's own personality.
I'm waiting to see how the old Strange Days car goes when someone gives it the slipper, George's car went OK........btw George, you'll have to go through licensing again won't you??? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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When a C-motored Modified Sports runs 380, they're doing something right.
Wonder if you could put an old F100 pickup body on it to drag it along and run Modified Pickup?
Or a wheel on a stick?
Just wondering . . .
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I figure that I can go faster in a lakester for the same money.
The cheapest 300 mph car would certainly be a streamliner. But would you really like going 300 in a class with a 400+ mph record?
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... George Johnson's Saltosaurus... Note the exhaust...
Noted but puzzled(?). Is it an 'aero' deal developed in a wind tunnel?
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I figure that I can go faster in a lakester for the same money.
The cheapest 300 mph car would certainly be a streamliner. But would you really like going 300 in a class with a 400+ mph record?
I would love to build a streamliner but I am worried about stability at high speed. It just seems way riskier than a Lakester; am I wrong? I've never driven either. I would love to hear from those who have driven both.
And, yes, I would be thrilled to go 300, wether I'm competitive or not.
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Probably the fastest FWD lakester is George Johnson's Saltosaurus which at one time held the record at around 273-4 mph. I have attached a couple of pictures, note the exhaust. George has been talking about bringing it out again with a few mods and is looking for 300.
Rex
I like the looks of George's lakester! Having the exhaust in the low pressure region behind the tires is great. I'm sure it cleans the airflow up a bit and helps scavenge the exhaust at the same time.
I'm interested in the trans, diff and steering setup!
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Here is the problem as I see it---- If you do not build a car that you "could" put a aero competive body you will just be throwing you money away. A rear eng. dragster type lakester "MIGHT" be build fairly inexpensively ----but it is still going to cost you a TON--- I would look at Al Eshenbaugh's new car. With a lot more body it could be fairly aero clean. His car is just about a SIMPLE as one can get it and has ROOM to grow into other systems if need be.
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On the power end, a small block with moderate boost will get you where you want to be. If you want to be easy on parts, you can do a small cube big block with boost. You don't need 2000hp to go 300 in a streamliner or lakester.
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Here is the problem as I see it---- If you do not build a car that you "could" put a aero competive body you will just be throwing you money away. A rear eng. dragster type lakester "MIGHT" be build fairly inexpensively ----but it is still going to cost you a TON--- I would look at Al Eshenbaugh's new car. With a lot more body it could be fairly aero clean. His car is just about a SIMPLE as one can get it and has ROOM to grow into other systems if need be.
I saw Al's lakester in tech (SW2013?) and I really like the design and the fact that there is room for whatever power plant you want back there. But, I'm leaning more towards the front wheel drive setup myself though. I just need to figure out the layout for the front axle and steering. I have no experience with quick change rears and wether or not they will have lubrication issues if I were to flip one upside down. Of course that poses a challenge with pinion angle and U-joint angles.
If all else fails, I could slap together a RWD 2.2L turbo Subaru setup that I already have. That would be the easiest and cheapest way to get a lakester on the salt but dang it, I want to drive something with serious power.
My budget is really only about 20k but I do all of my own fab work and engine building / tuning.
I will likely start out with a mostly stock LSx or BBC, just to get on the salt, then worry about building it up later.
Now, as far as transmission selections... Which would be better- 4l80e, TH400, TH350, 700r4, 200-4r???
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Now, as far as transmission selections... Which would be better- 4l80e, TH400, TH350, 700r4, 200-4r???
4L80E would have the smallest rpm drop shifting into high.
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Hi there, This is one half of the old Strange Days FWD car, now owned by TFA Racing in Houston. My partner Karl posts quite a bit, I do not. We have no actual experience with our FWD setup, but I thought I could weigh in on what our current setup is. The previous owners bought a Winters quick change setup for reverse rotation by Winters from Joe Timney (Delaware Chassis Works). The only down side to this is reverse rotation is limited to I believe a 4.11 r&p ratio, then corrected by the QC gears to whatever you want. I believe we are in the 2.40 final drive range. The outer axles and housings are narrowed Jeep Cherokee. It was pointed out to us that the scrub radius for the front wheels needed to be as close to zero as possible. In our search for wheels we found none that would meet our criteria. We were fortunate to find Raceline Wheels in LA that is making us custom offset wheels. The steering is controlled by a Sweet rack and pinion. The rear, er, now "front" end is joined to the Turbo 350 trans by a Mark Williams coupler. The trans is hooked to a Patriot 383 crate motor.
Hope this helps...
We are currently thrashing to have the car ready for August. Hope to see every one there.
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,...The only down side to this is reverse rotation is limited to I believe a 4.11 r&p ratio, then corrected by the QC gears to whatever you want. ....
Not sure when or if the 4.11 ratio will be a problem regarding pinon speeds. With 28 inch tires you have the following pinion speeds...
MPH .. RPM
200 = 9873
225 = 11107
250 = 12341
275 = 13575
300 = 14809
325 = 16043
Has Winters or Joe suggested a top rpm for the pinion?
Sum
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Hi Boost . The 2 important things with front wheel drive is zero scrub as has been mentioned and an overrunning clutch in the driveline so it handling doesn't go nuts if the engine locks up . Fortunately drag boats need them also so they are available . Casale and Beaverfab make them . This is the Beaverfab :
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beaverfab.com%2F6101.html&ei=JF9YU4-MOpDeyQGVwoGQCg&usg=AFQjCNFZ8jCJ9JKm3nHsOc7iAGOkbNYlPA&bvm=bv.65397613,d.aWc&cad=rja
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I have personal, first hand knowledge of the benefits of the benefits of having a freewheel overrunning system in a rear wheel drive. You blow up---NO LOCK UP--- :-D you just roll along with no eng noise but one rolls along.
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Sparky, that very thing has been bugging me. Would you care to elaborate?.
No jack intended or maybe it's time for a separate thread.
Thanks.
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I was under the impression that an automatic trans inherently has the freewheeling capabilities. :?
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.....Now, as far as transmission selections... Which would be better- 4l80e, TH400, TH350, 700r4, 200-4r???
I think you will find that most overdrive transmissions are not built to handle high HP in overdrive. I'd check with whoever builds the transmission to make sure you can run the HP you need through 4th. Considering you are going to need north of 800 HP to run 300 with a lakester that probably puts the 4l80e at the top of the list because of the HP and the lower rpm drop as was mentioned. 200r4's have been build to handle big HP but they have the largest drop.
The lest expensive combo to build would probably be a 2.14 GM rear, TH350 (not much difference in 2nd--2.52 vs. 400's 2.48) and 28 inch tires. 300 mph = 7711 rpm so you need a good motor.
If you could run the 4l80e and run 4th then the rpm would be 5800 so you could run GM 2.28 gears (300 = 6162) or Ford 2.47 gears (300 = 6700).
The G-Force 101A would be a little more expensive up front at about $4000 (trans, shifter, clutch) but would offer much better gear ratio choices. Withe the auto's 1st gear is a waste so you have 2nd-3rd to work with and O.D. if it will take the HP.
The other with the big block would be Sparky's combination of a powerglide and a gear vendors but that is also an expensive option.
Good luck and if you go frontwheel drive follow the advice given above,
Sum
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Sometimes automatics do freewheel after an engine failure but in my experience they momentarily lock up, break the case and then they might freewheel. Not fun. I like Sparkys powergilde/GV setup.
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Sometimes automatics do freewheel after an engine failure but in my experience they momentarily lock up, break the case and then they might freewheel. Not fun. I like Sparkys powergilde/GV setup.
It works and got him in the 300 mph club :-). Of note is that his Gear Vendors was made specifically for B'ville by them. He has told me the differences vs. a regular GV but I'd better let him explain as I'd probably get something wrong,
Sum
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It works and got him in the 300 mph club :-). Of note is that his Gear Vendors was made specifically for B'ville by them. He has told me the differences vs. a regular GV but I'd better let him explain as I'd probably get something wrong,
Sum
That it does Sum. He explained to me a little bit about the differences of a standard GV unit and his. Wish I had one of those GV units on the back of my 'glide when I broke my motor. Wouldve saved some parts in the glide along with the case.
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Sum,
the QC diffs use a primary and a secondary gear set. The primary can either be 4.11 or 4.56 or a couple of others. Then the secondary gear sets (the actual quick change ones) that slide in the back can be swapped as the primary multipliers to change that 4.11 into anything from about 2.xx up to 7.xx.
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Sum,
the QC diffs use a primary and a secondary gear set. The primary can either be 4.11 or 4.56 or a couple of others. Then the secondary gear sets (the actual quick change ones) that slide in the back can be swapped as the primary multipliers to change that 4.11 into anything from about 2.xx up to 7.xx.
I'm not sure of the point you are making. With the 4.11 or 4.56 type QC the ring gear is still attached to the axles and the pinion to it so the high pinion speeds since the ring gear is moving at wheel rpm. The quick change gears are before the ring/pinion and don't effect the pinion rpm, the wheel speed does.
Personally I'd stay away from a circle track quick change if I was planning on running over 250. The
http://www.wintersperformance.com/Xtremeliner%20Chart.pdf (http://www.wintersperformance.com/Xtremeliner%20Chart.pdf)
Winters Xtremeliner with the 2.00 ring/pinion is what I'd be looking at for a fast car. Hope to maybe have one myself at some point,
Sum
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I would use a Toyota Supra turbo 6. Excellent reliable HP and it would care which direct it was sitting in the car. BTW if your not willing to spend all you've got and max your credit cards you probably won't get a "hat". :<)
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Sum,
the QC diffs use a primary and a secondary gear set. The primary can either be 4.11 or 4.56 or a couple of others. Then the secondary gear sets (the actual quick change ones) that slide in the back can be swapped as the primary multipliers to change that 4.11 into anything from about 2.xx up to 7.xx.
I'm not sure of the point you are making. With the 4.11 or 4.56 type QC the ring gear is still attached to the axles and the pinion to it so the high pinion speeds since the ring gear is moving at wheel rpm. The quick change gears are before the ring/pinion and don't effect the pinion rpm, the wheel speed does.
Personally I'd stay away from a circle track quick change if I was planning on running over 250. The
http://www.wintersperformance.com/Xtremeliner%20Chart.pdf (http://www.wintersperformance.com/Xtremeliner%20Chart.pdf)
Winters Xtremeliner with the 2.00 ring/pinion is what I'd be looking at for a fast car. Hope to maybe have one myself at some point,
Sum
Sorry, had to go back to your post again. Thought you were talking about engine rpm. BTW, the Xtremeliner with 2.00 is what I have now, used to have a Winters NASCAR QC. It is a very nice piece.
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I have been looking at circle track QC's not realizing that there were differences. What exactly is different about the LSR types? What kind of $ are we talking about for an LSR type?
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I have been looking at circle track QC's not realizing that there were differences. What exactly is different about the LSR types? What kind of $ are we talking about for an LSR type?
The one difference is the ring gear/pinion gear ratio. Circle track being over 4.00 usually. Since the ring gear revolves at wheel speed/rpm the pinion speeds can get quite high regardless of the quick change gears being used to achieve the final overall ratio.
The LSR types usually have ratios taller (lower numerical) than 3.00 ring/pinion ratios. It just depends on what your final speeds are going to be if you might have a problem or not. Anyone welling to share what speeds thet have run with a 4.11 or lower QC?
Sum
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Hey Boosted,
Where are you located in Nor Cal? I am going to be starting a similar build when I get back from a motorcycle ride to Panama - and get the current car ready for El Mirage - and finish a remodeled on the house. PM me. We should hook up. (I'm writing from a seedy hotel in Honduras right now.)
This should be easier than you might think. You need the extremeliner rear because the dirt track QC won't get the ratio you need without going to a tire that is too big in my humble opinion. You could get by with an overdrive trans, but that eats a lot of horsepower. Then overdriving the QC enough to compensate for the wrong R&P again eats HP. So just bite the bullet and get the extreme liner.
You asked about price. While you can buy the dirt track dirt track QC used all day for $1000, I have never found a secondhand xtremeliner. Hopefully one of the other guys on the board can fill in the price, but I remember hearing around $4000 new when I checked 6ish months ago - but I don't remember if that was complete?
You are right about running the diff upside down to get everything to spin the right direction when you mount the motor backwards. But you can't do that with a QC because it won't oil right without pumps and mods to the case.
Here is why I say it should be easy: The center section of a QC is symmetrical - the pinion is in the center. The carrier bearings that hold the spool are in the bells that bolt on either side. You get the same effect of flipping the rear if you just swap the bells. Basically, you are flipping the ring gear to the other side of the pinion but everything else stays the same and still oils like Winters designed it. Some old QCs had a third pinion support bearing that would have prevented flipping the ring gear. The extreme liner does not have the third bearing.
This is basically what winters does with the reverse rotation R&P for 4WD. That set-up needs a special R&P so you don't drive off the coast side of the gear. But you are mounting the motor backwards so you don't need a reverse rotation R&P.
At least that's what I think. I haven't tried it yet.
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I just got off the phone with Winters and talked to them about the fwd QC setup. They really couldn't give me much clarification on pinion rotation, ring gear location or whether or not the ring would need to be reverse cut. So before I write the check ($3800) for something I cannot use, here's a quick rundown of what I'm thinking:
-QC with 2.00:1 r&p standard rotation with ring gear relocated to the other side. ($100 worth of maching to housing per Winters rep)
-Dana 35 axles, tubes, steering components, brakes, etc. (donor Jeep Cherokee front axle)
******This is all based on my assumption that my setup will have the driveshaft facing forward with a counterclockwise rotation as seen from standing in front of the car. I believe that 4WD trucks have the front driveshaft rotating clockwise as seen from the front of the car, which requires them to have a reverse cut r&p. (?)
Now, I plan on running the car at B'ville mostly. What kind of suspension would be best for this? 4-link, leaf, or what?
(http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff327/boostedballs/streamliner_zps92f4663a.jpg) (http://s536.photobucket.com/user/boostedballs/media/streamliner_zps92f4663a.jpg.html)
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Hey Boosted,
Where are you located in Nor Cal?
I'm near Sacramento
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I'd suggest you talk to these guys who dragged a Triumph body to 380 MPH with a turbo Chevy.
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I'd suggest you talk to these guys who dragged a Triumph body to 380 MPH with a turbo Chevy.
That is an impressive machine and I've read all about it. Hoping to get a good look at it this August!
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The sketch you're showing is a streamliner, not a lakester. For the vehicle to be a lakester all four wheels must be totally exposed.
Pete
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What kind of suspension would be best for this? 4-link, leaf, or what?
none!
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The sketch you're showing is a streamliner, not a lakester. For the vehicle to be a lakester all four wheels must be totally exposed.
Pete
I know the pic shows it with the rear wheels inside the body and that makes it a streamliner, but I'm not completely committed to the lakester or the streamliner at this point. I'll probably go streamliner but I first want to sort out the drivetrain and whether or not to go fwd or RWD.
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Boosted,
I'm going to order the QC setup I described when I get back. (In Nicaragua now.). You can check it out if want before you order yours. My shop is in Hayward.
Here's why I love your project: You set your own goal (300mph) and you design and build your own rig to reach that goal. Bonneville is kind of the last frontier where most of the cars were built by the guy driving them. That alone is a great accomplishment. Records are great but if that were the only goal, the sport would be limited to a very few high rollers. I've got mad respect for the guys at the top, but my whole car will cost less than a freshen-up on a Mendeola transmission. When you or I go 300mph we won't get a record. But we will check a big box off our bucket lists. And we will have done it in some hair brained contraption that we built ourselves! That is why I love this sport and wish you the best of luck with your project.
Three points on your build that I thought about as well:
I'm going with no suspension as others have suggested, but still mounting the diff with a four-link to make it easier to dial in the alignment.
No engine-breaking is a must. If you use an automatic, your trans guy should be able to handle that. I used the real Art Carr from California Performance Transmissions for my Baja truggy and will likely go back to him. (Though I am still on the fence about a touque converter.)
Scrub radius is a big deal. But, only if you steer with your drive wheels.
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Scrub radius is a big deal.
Scrub radius is a big deal!!
Scrub radius is a big deal!!! .
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... No engine-breaking is a must...
Engine braking is probably also a no-no... :roll:
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Scrub radius is a big deal.
Scrub radius is a big deal!!
Scrub radius is a big deal!!! .
Did you just say Scrub radius is a Big Deal? Did you just say Scrub radius is a Big Deal?? Did you just say Scrub radius is a Big Deal???
I just ordered 2 new front wheels today to cut about 1 1/4 inches of scrub radius out of my front non-driven wheels. Just a note to those concerned with scrub radius, Marsh Wheels has some other centers vs. the dished ones they normally use that will increase the backspacing about another 1 1/4 inches. If you can use the additional backspacing talk to them about those centers,
Sum
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I haven't overlooked scrub radius but I am under the impression that it should be fairly easy to solve with the right wheel and tire combo. Now, CASTER is something that I figure would take some work to get right. Right?
The QC allows me to easily set the caster to whatever I want since the tubes can rotate in the housing and are locked down with the set screws. The question is, what effect does the caster have on scrub radius?
Run the suspension with no springs or shocks? :-o Is this safe? I am building this for B'ville but it would be nice to also run it at other venues. Engineering it as a rigid would be much easier but how would it do on some of the other courses?
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Boosted,
I'm going to order the QC setup I described when I get back. (In Nicaragua now.). You can check it out if want before you order yours. My shop is in Hayward.
Count me in! I have work sites that I visit in your area fairly often and I would love to stop by!
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I haven't overlooked scrub radius but I am under the impression that it should be fairly easy to solve with the right wheel and tire combo. Now, CASTER is something that I figure would take some work to get right. Right?
The QC allows me to easily set the caster to whatever I want since the tubes can rotate in the housing and are locked down with the set screws. The question is, what effect does the caster have on scrub radius?
The problem with getting the scrub radius right is made harder by the narrow wheels and the limited offset you can have with them. With a conventional rear drive car in the front four or five things can effect the scrub radius. The king pin angle if you have one (or the A-arms), the tire height (distance from the tire center to the ground), the caster can effect it as the more caster the further out the contact point is in front of the tire patch and the wheel offset. Also you can modify the spindle and/or bearing surfaces to move it in some cases.
With frontwheel drive I'm not sure how the Winters is setup on the axle ends and how it drives the hubs. I didn't even know they had a frontwheel drive version until this thread,
Sum
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Here's a thought.
Would you need to run narrow front tires in a front wheel drive set up?
Not sure about the availability of wide tires for 300mph or 400mph.
Richard 2
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I haven't overlooked scrub radius but I am under the impression that it should be fairly easy to solve with the right wheel and tire combo....
I hope you are right, but we sure did NOT find it "easy to solve"... Also be aware that vavle stem placement ain't a slam-dunk.
As Sumner says:
"The problem with getting the scrub radius right is made harder by the narrow wheels and the limited offset you can have with them"
From our "tweak" diary: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,13291.0.html
Another major issue has been getting wheels with 1 5/16" offset (gives zero scrub). That seems to have been accomplished through the help of Allied Wheels in LA. Greg Mulkey took interest in our project and suggested aluminum with steel lug inserts. He recently turned out a beautiful pilot wheel, stout as heck, which measures up just fine. He is now making 5 more.
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb194/guntekd/IMG_1784_zpsfe992b67.jpg)
Karl
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Nice, is that a one piece billet or a spun rim with an added center??
Sid.
spell check :roll:
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Nice, is that a one piece billet or a spun rim with an added center??
Sid.
spell check :roll:
Sid,
The wheel has a very stout billet center with 60 degree tapered steel inserts welded onto a spun rim (Greg calls them shells)
The center is 360 degree welded to the shell outside, stitch welded inside.
One "fly in the ointment" is that SCTA requires 1" hex lug nuts, and they are apparently only available off the shelf with 45 degree taper.
Thanks to this forum, we were lucky enough to find a source for 1" 60 degree lug nuts.
karl
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I might need to talk to these guys. How's the runout & how fast do they think they'll go??
Sid.
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I might need to talk to these guys. How's the runout & how fast do they think they'll go??
Sid.
runout: .012" +/- .002-3 radially, and a bit less axially.
how fast will they go? the company made no claims.
But judging by the sturdy construction, 360 degree welding and low runout (seems low to me), we feel the risk is low at whatever our 500hp Lakester will go.
Even though you didn't ask... The clearance of the center over the hub is .004" total; we are told the wheel is both "hub-centric" and "lug-centric".
Our pilot wheel is the 1st "Bonneville wheel" Allied Wheel Components (AWC) have made. BTW, Raceline is the aluminum wheel product line of AWC. We worked with their development guy, Greg Mulkey, to spec our specific needs, and i gotta say he is a Prince to deal with.
And i might as well address the other question you didn't ask,
Q: how much did they cost?
A: call Greg Mulkey :-D, our development deal is likely not the production deal
karl
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PM'd you.
Sid.