Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: robfrey on April 11, 2014, 02:22:15 PM
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Does anybody have a COMPLETE parts list for a v8 Chevy or for that matter any pushrod V8 done in Excel so that when I tally up total cost to build an engine, I don't miss anything?
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BIG MISTAKE --- you do not want to know how much
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Unless you're looking to talk yourself out of this, I'd have to agree with Sparky.
And if you're looking to explain the expense to a spouse, well, that's just another way of talking yourself out of it.
I use the Kenmore method - As long as there's food in the fridge, I'm under budget.
Seriously, though, you could put together an Excel template by grabbing a Summit catalog, and work through it page by page.
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Rob, in 1966 I worked in a Honda shop and you could buy a new CB-450 for $999 retail. I priced all the major sub-assemblies available [no nuts or bolts] and it was ~$4500 dealer cost plus assembly labor. :-o So price a crate engine and multiply it by at least 9 or 10 and you should be pretty close! :-D
Chris, did you forgot the beer fridge? :-(
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I see that alot from people, not letting the spouse know how much is spent on racing. I was always upfront with my wife on the what I spent on racing. First off she runs the finances so I had to let her know how much it was to see if we had the extra money to do whatever it is I was wanting or needing to do. She was always supportive of our racing and I wouldnt have it any other way. Very rarely if ever did I get told no, we dont have the money to do something
Rob, take a look at a detailed parts list from an engine builder online ( Sonny's, Reher and Morrison etc ) to get an itemized list. Itll probably have everything but the miscellaneous fastners. Then just copy and paste it to a spread sheet.
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Beer is food.
:cheers:
Rob, I remember in my late teens going through the J.C. Whatnot catalog, trying to figure what it would cost me to put together a Fad-T Bucket.
After about a week, I discussed it with a high school buddy, and he started asking questions like, "What about a master cylinder?", and pointing out the cost of gauges and light bulbs. He declared my estimate wasn't even close. Then he pointed out a Bradley GT a mutual friend of ours had built, and how every time he turned around, it was another $20 or $30.
I'm not taking anything away from your accounting skills when I say I doubt you'll ever get an estimate down to within $1000.00 of the actual cost of parts and machine work. Things change midstream, advertised costs change or aren't even close to what you actually pay, shipping adds up, parts availability dries up, unexpected component repairs raise their ugly head.
Any spreadsheet of this nature will probably be of great value to keep you to task, but I doubt if the numbers are likely to hold.
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My eng builder suggested we get a Reher Morrison crate eng deleteing the parts we don't need and get them to discount it for not building it
This is the best bang for the buck I have come up with.
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Buy a crate engine
pull it to bits
Swap out the parts you want to change
check the tolerances
weld the oil pump pickup into the oil pump if you're not running a dry sump
put it back together
sell the extra bits on Craigslist :-D
Or, if you pull it to bits enough times, use all the left over bits to build a spare engine :cheers:
G
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Is a "Big Bloch" a German Chevy? :-D
Sid.
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Frey is "German" :-D so why not?.
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It is important to know what a project cost before starting it. I have built engines like this before and stayed under budget. Actually, an engine, even though it has many pieces is easier to keep on budget than a chassis. It has less unknowns. Also, I have experienced a much harder time staying on budget when I try to skimp and buy slightly used parts. These decisions always seem to come back and bite me then I spend more getting caught up. More importantly, the accurate parts list will give me something much more duplicatable. This will be important if we ever land a big sponsor and need to have a couple of spare bullets in the trailer.
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When I built my 28 Mercury 20-25 years ago, I thought it would be interesting to see how much I was spending on parts. I started with a real low-buck goal and saved all the receipts. After a few months, I kind of totaled them up and then threw them all away. What I didn't figure, among many other things, was fasteners, supplies, etc.
I guess a lot of that could be recategorized as recreation and left off.
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This collection of replies probably illustrates that those expensive engines purchased from various engine builders are not as overpriced as they may at first appear. :evil: :-D :-D
Pete
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My biggest fear is that when I die, Mrs. Floydjer will sell my cars and tools for what I told her I paid for them................. :cheers:
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This collection of replies probably illustrates that those expensive engines purchased from various engine builders are not as overpriced as they may at first appear. :evil: :-D :-D
Pete
"Everybody wants to knit their own sweater".
Avis Martin
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This collection of replies probably illustrates that those expensive engines purchased from various engine builders are not as overpriced as they may at first appear. :evil: :-D :-D
Pete
"Everybody wants to knit their own sweater".
Avis Martin
MM, I'm very much a DIY guy but when someone spends good money for me to build or prep a serious race car I know there are lots of people build a stronger engine than me. At that point I recommend that they source the engine from someone who has the facilities to build and dyno the engine properly. :-D :-D :-D
If it's my own car I've built my own engines. I'd probably be better outsourcing those engines too! :roll: :roll: :roll:
Pete
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Very few individuals or shops can build a big block Chevy as well as Reher-Morrison. Since they opened for business in the early 70's, their deal was that they sold virtually all the same technology to their customers as what they used. If you can even remotely afford one of their engines, why try to do it yourself? This way you know the valve reliefs are perfect for that cam and piston and that everything has been dialed in correctly. When they raced pro stock they must have had 100 different custom tunnel rams that they tried in an effort to maximize horsepower. With R-M's experience and dyno capabilities, I doubt an individual could build an engine that would get within fifty horsepower of one of their combinations.
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Very few individuals or shops can build a big block Chevy as well as Reher-Morrison. Since they opened for business in the early 70's, their deal was that they sold virtually all the same technology to their customers as what they used. If you can even remotely afford one of their engines, why try to do it yourself? This way you know the valve reliefs are perfect for that cam and piston and that everything has been dialed in correctly. When they raced pro stock they must have had 100 different custom tunnel rams that they tried in an effort to maximize horsepower. With R-M's experience and dyno capabilities, I doubt an individual could build an engine that would get within fifty horsepower of one of their combinations.
Edinlr,
I am a huge fan of R&M and completley agree with you. Just dont get Sparky started on them more than he already has :-). In spending time with him last year helping finishing his lakester, he's not very fond of his fellow Texans in Arlington. But everybody is entitled to their opinions and you have to respect a person for that.
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There are lots of good engine builders around. There are also lots of individuals who think they're good engine builders. The best way to find one in your area is to ask around and find someone who has EARNED a good reputation. I have used both local engine builders and builders from most of the way diagonally across the continent. Generally I've had very few problems with any builder that's gained a solid reputation.
Pete
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Plus Reher-Morrison have the best head guy on the planet working for them if you want to step it up!
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Frankie Said--- But everybody is entitled to their opinions and you have to respect a person for that!!
Sparky SAYS "Frankie you are way out of line, in my opinion, speaking for some one else!" If I want my opinions real or imagined out there for all to see just how stupid I may be!! I would appreciate it if in the future you please let my OWN alligator mouth over load my humming bird ASSine!!"
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Frankie Said--- But everybody is entitled to their opinions and you have to respect a person for that!!
Sparky SAYS "Frankie you are way out of line, in my opinion, speaking for some one else!" If I want my opinions real or imagined out there for all to see just how stupid I may be!! I would appreciate it if in the future you please let my OWN alligator mouth over load my humming bird ASSine!!"
My apologies Sparky. I was out of line and I apologize sir. I will say though that in my time around you I never heard anything remotely stupid out of your mouth nor did I ever see any examples of your alligator mouth override your hummingbird asinine :-)
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Below is a general list but may be modified to meet your needs.
block
crank
rods
pistons
rings
main bearings
rod bearings
cam bearings
camshaft
lifters
heads
valves
springs
retainers
locks
spring seats
seals
shims
pushrods
rockers
head gaskets
remaining gaskets
oil pan
oil pump
oil filter
oil tank
oil fittings
oil lines
pump mounting bracket
tank mounting bracket
intake manifold
intake gaskets
timing set
cam button
timing cover
timing pointer
balancer
fastener kit
valve covers
freeze plugs
paint
silicone
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BTW, the list above for 'good' parts is about $15k plus machine work for a conventional headed BBC. Assuming you buy off the shelf parts. the best bargains on new stuff is definitely the crate motor route from places like RM or Shafiroff. Be careful though because the advertised priced are usually with the cheap stuff (Chinese crank, off brand lifters, etc) that you DO NOT want. To get one with a Callies or better crank, oliver rods and good lifters will be about $18-20k
Honestly, the best way to get a good engine cheap is to buy a used high dollar engine, like a 14 or 18 degree engine, and freshen it with new rods, pistons, rings, bearings, valve springs, valves, etc. You can pick up a really nice 598 or 632 Big Chief/Duke engine for about $12k and spend about $6k on it to get a solid engine that would have cost minimum $25-40k to build from scratch. That is the route I was going until I got a great deal buying a conventional headed 555 that I built a couple years ago for a friend. Could not pass it up.
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who has EARNED a good reputation. Oh so true---that is why I use an eng builder in TX---
10-04 on watching out for what goes into your eng---one of the main reasons why I use a guy in TX he will let me supply the parts and he builds winning engs!!
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Rob, I can easily save you 25K- the FlatCad is about the same size as a BBC.... :-D :cheers:
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Below is a general list but may be modified to meet your needs.
block
crank
rods
pistons
rings
main bearings
rod bearings
cam bearings
camshaft
lifters
heads
valves
springs
retainers
locks
spring seats
seals
shims
pushrods
rockers
head gaskets
remaining gaskets
oil pan
oil pump
oil filter
oil tank
oil fittings
oil lines
pump mounting bracket
tank mounting bracket
intake manifold
intake gaskets
timing set
cam button
timing cover
timing pointer
balancer
fastener kit
valve covers
freeze plugs
paint
silicone
Time
G