Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: sabat on December 17, 2013, 10:49:48 PM
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Sorry if this is a repost, but here is a detailed post describing a F1 cylinder head. Lots of pictures and explanation. -Dean
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15385
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Besides being author of this, who is Brian G?
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Impressive but not sure why he thinks he needs to keep some of the background secret. If it's a Hart as one person says then it could be from the 4cylinder 415T turbo engine or a later V8. I don't know but I know a man who will. Alex Macfadzean is leading The 52 Express turbine bike streamliner project due to run next year and as a long term friend of Don Vesco is a former member of the Turbinator team.
One of his oldest friends is Brian Hart and in fact Alex built his dynos and engine test cells before Brian retired from F1.One of the early concepts for the bike project was to use either one or two 415T turbo engines (much like the Castrol Rocket) which Brian donated since F1 had moved on since then. Heat management was the major issue which is why Alex went the turbine route. He still has most of Brian's original engine drawings and blueprints along with one complete V8 F1 engine (the last Brian built) plus a load of other stuff. Thought you might like to see a Pankl rod and a piston for the sectioned engine that is the subject of this post. Basically, it's a piston crown with a rod attached :-)
Robin
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I'm guessing that he is just being extremely cautious. I wonder how things have changed over the last 10 years.
Great pics, thanks for posting.
Dean
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Dean,
here is another pic of the piston crown showing just how much valve area you can squeeze in. My bet is that lots has changed in the last ten years - more recently as a result of advanced engine mapping for hot and cold exhaust blowing of rear diffusers. Until they placed restrictions on it, RPMs were close to 20,000rpm. The latest generation of F1 engines (due to be replaced next year) are really compact compared to days gone by.
Robin
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Compare the struggle you have to get 8,000 rpm, compared to 20,000!
Sadly, F1 is limited to 15,000 in 2014.
Cheer up! There is no restriction in LSR!
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I also think they are limited to 6 engines per driver for the whole year. Meaning one engine allowed for practice, qualifying, and the race at 3 to 4 different venues!
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I'd like to know why the valve retainer/piston was not shown in any of the pictures. I'd like to see just how it is made along with how the seals are arranged on that part.
Additionally, what PSI do they normally run on this valve setup. What valve seat pressure is what I'm asking, and what PSI does it take to get it.
Rouse
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Very interesting--thanks for posting... :-)
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Speaking of the limited numbers of engines. I saw this interesting article that shows the vital stats of the just the Renault V8 engine program - http://jalopnik.com/renault-says-adieu-to-their-superb-v8-f1-engine-1468867422 - keep in mind this was just Renault
The stat that jumped out to me was they built 1,271 engines over an 8 year period and of those 588 were used for dyno use; that's 46% of the total built, amazing considering the technical spec was frozen..? I guess allot of time spent on improving mapping and different throttle schemes for blown diffusers and such.
Also look at the total number of parts used. 21,8000 pistons, 43,200 intake valves, 45,900 exhaust valves... Sounds like production to me
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When I helped Mike Cook a few years ago with the BAR Honda powered F1 car the Japanese techs pulled the engine out of the car and hid it behind some crates in a hanger we were using. They had stuff that had to be removed and hidden before I could certify the displacement. I would guess that the valve arrangement was a part of that.
DW
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Start with the engine supplement: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/download/
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Compare the struggle you have to get 8,000 rpm, compared to 20,000!
Sadly, F1 is limited to 15,000 in 2014.
Cheer up! There is no restriction in LSR!
Only 15,000 rpm? Gosh, nobody will be able to pass for the lead.
Oh, wait...
Mike
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Maybe they'll incorporate the stupid "Push to Pass".
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Maybe they'll incorporate the stupid "Push to Pass".
They already have two. DRS (Drag reduction system) when the wing articulates to reduce drag and KERS (kinetic energy recovery System). DRS is typically allowed at 2 places on the track and KERS is limited to the amount of extra energy they can use per lap. DRS zones are the same position on the track for everybody but can only be used if you are within one second of the car you are overtaking or trying to pass. However, KERS can be used by the driver anywhere he wishes.
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The new 2014 F1 engine rules are so complicated and require so much ECU power to make the engines work that I predict the guy that wins the first 2014 GP in Australia will literally be the " last man standing". Even though the new engines have a rev limit of 15000 rpm they will probably spend most of their time running in the 10,000 rpm area because of the internal friction increase above 10,000. The teams are limited to a total fuel load of 100 KG of fuel and a max fuel flow rate of 100KG/hour for fuel flow. If you use a Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) rate for the typical high performance engine of .5 lb/hp hour then the max hp you could develop at this flow rate (220 lbs/ hour) would be 440 hp. If you go really lean and add the turbo you might get the BSFC down to .35 to .4 which would give you 550 to 600 hp. The additional horse power to make the engine equal to the 2013 V8 power is to be provided by the KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) and TERS (Thermal Energy Recovery System)systems which are of course both ECU and FIA controlled. Are we confused yet? These engines will be so complex and difficult to make into race engines as we know them and EXPENSIVE that it is going to make F1 either a comedy or a farce.
Make the throttle pedal directly connected to the throttle butterflys and make the gear shift lever to be directly linked to the transmission and maybe real racing could happn in F1 otherwise go to the sprint and midget races as that his REAL RACING. (Bonneville is a whole different thing!)
Rex
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With double points for the last race next year Formula 1 has become a total farce not worth following anymore. It's a joke with more gimmicks than there is legitimate racing. A hugely expensive joke, but still a joke. :? :? :oops:
Pete
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You said it Pete.
The joke's on them. Bunch of Clowns.
Next they'll be handing out trophies for good behavior and give Jennifer Button a credit card for new dresses!!!
They also have more investigations than the FBI. :-D :-D :evil:
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I gave up watching F1 regularly a few years back. It's such a shame. My Dad went to the first ever world championship F1 race and in the later years of his life I still used to take him to qualifying sessions just to experience the sound and sheer spectacle of it all. The amount of money needed to keep F1 going now is down to a flawed business model cooked up by Max Moseley and Bernie Ecclestone that sees most of it flowing into the pockets of a private equity company. I agree that all the artificial measures added to "spice up the show" have devalued it as a sport not worth watching but the technology is always interesting imo. I went to a lecture at Churchill College Cambridge last year by Paddy Lowe just before he moved from McLaren to Mercedes and I came away with the view that it's all the technical research, planning and simulation that drives most people in F1 rather than the actual racing. As an example, my wife works for a company that does really clever stuff for a number of front of the grid F1 teams. As you'll see from this link, some of the technology is applicable elsewhere and is does contribute to engine reliability. But does it do anything for the racing? Hard to see how. I heard recently that one very senior and well known F1 technician has on his personal bucket list - build a small capacity bike streamliner and run it at Bonneville. Real racing by real people in a real racing community is worth more than a ton of corporate sponsorship imo. I wouldn't mind a little bit of that though :-D
http://www.businessweekly.co.uk/hi-tech/15838--ttp-technology-beats-the-faraday-cage-
Cheers
Robin
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Thanx -- I'd forgotten those were other reasons I quit watching.
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The F1 technology is like the space program. Some good things are developed and they trickle down to us eventually. The concepts they develop to use fuel more efficiently will prolong the useful life of the internal combustion engine. One of my friends says "Without EFI the V8 would be an extinct beast."