Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: Seldom Seen Slim on November 19, 2013, 11:37:03 AM
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As he's done for the past year or two or so, Dan Warner has sent the newest CAR rule changes to me to post here. He makes this comment:
"I have not included the complete sections, only the changes. Updates will be in bold print and deletions are lined out and highlighted. The remainder of a paragraph where a change was made and the entire section will remain intact.
Please contact me with any questions."
Note added after posting: I see that the highlighting and bold/strike through did not follow in my cut and paste. I'll work on that -- but at least here are the rules/changes. Sorry for the inconvenience. Jon a/k/a SSS.
Last year, as I remember, we were all pleased that we saw the car changes a few days before Thanksgiving. This time -- a week and a half before the Turkey Day! Thanks very much for your work and help, Dan. Go have a glass of wine - on us, okay? :-D :cheers: :-D :cheers:
Here is what he sent:
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA TIMING ASSOCIATION
Presents 2014 Speed Trials RULES and RECORDS updates
NOTICE:
added sentence
Although a participant’s vehicle meets all safety and technical regulations, the vehicle may not be allowed to compete due to environmental or course conditions or other considerations. All decisions of the Race Director and the SCTA Contest Board are final.
All regulations are subject to change without notice; in the event of change, all prior inspections and classifications are nullified. Any request for deviation from any rule contained in this rulebook shall be submitted in writing in accordance with the RULE DEVIATION procedure, Section 1.R.
1.A TECHNICAL INSPECTION:
added paragraph
Under penalty of disqualification, expulsion or permanent ban, no modifications (additions, deletions, or changes) are permitted to either vehicle equipment or driver/rider gear after passing Technical Inspection unless coordinated with the Event Director and Chief Technical Inspector. This includes any changes in vehicle condition due to breakdowns or failures, flat or damaged tires, spins, fires or any other reason. It is the entrant or driver/rider's responsibility to resubmit the vehicle to tech inspection for approval of any changes.
1.R RULE DEVIATION PROCEDURE:
new parargraph
Any request for deviation from any rule contained in this Rule Book shall be submitted in writing to the Technical Committee Chairperson, Section 16. The Technical Committee has up to 45 days to review any applications for a deviation from the Rule Book; therefore requests should be submitted in a timely manner before the vehicle is to run for full investigation and approval/disapproval. If the committee does not allow participation, the Technical Committee Chairperson will inform the participant in writing and direct the Chief Inspector, Section 16, to make an appropriate notation in the vehicle Log Book. An entrant may appeal the decision of the Technical Committee to the SCTA Contest Board. A copy of the procedure is available from the SCTA office.
SECTION 2 CAR COMPETITION SPECIFICATIONS
added clarifications
2.A.1 VINTAGE ENGINES:
Vintage engine classes listed below refer to "blocks or crankcases" and are intended to be representative examples of those listed and recognizable as such. Vintage engine class competitors are required to use American-made production engine blocks as specified. Blocks shall be limited to original factory production or factory authorized replacements and shall retain all original dimensions, excepting modifications involving intake/exhaust ports, cooling ports, and in V4 engine classes only, specialty head adaptation pursuant to the following criterion: Cylinder bore centers shall be maintained to within .150 inch of original design, crankshaft centerline to original deck height measurement shall be within .150 inch of original design, original deck material and thickness shall be maintained to within .150 inch of original design. The addition of a port divider to an OEM block or OEM cylinder head is not considered as adding a port. For V4 and V4F engines a Guide to Permitted/Prohibited engine block modifications is available from the Committee Chairperson, Section 16, the SCTA office(page 3) or on the SCTA-BNI website(www.scta-bni.org).
XF class consists of any production FORD/MERCURY, passenger car V-8 flathead engine, 1932 through 1953, up to 325 CID.
XO class consists of inline overhead valve (OHV), inline flathead and flathead V8 (except Ford & Mercury) and V-12 passenger car and pickup truck(or the same engine design family, Section 4.N) engines, 1959 model year design or earlier, up to 325 original CID. In the spirit of the class, XO engines shall typically be those run at the Southern California Dry Lakes in the 1940s and early 1950s. Examples include Chevrolet, GMC, Hudson, Packard, Buick, Lincoln and Cadillac. Foreign engines are NOT included.
XXF class is an XF engine, as described above, with a specialty cylinder head as described below.
XXO class is an XO engine, as described above, with a specialty cylinder head as described below.
A specialty cylinder head is fabricated from billet stock, cast or a modified OEM head that has added ports. At least one valve per cylinder shall be in the head. All X class engines, as described above, which are over 325 CID, but less than 375 CID, shall be classified as either XXF or XXO.
In addition, all other 1959 model year design or earlier non-Ford & Mercury flathead V8s, flathead and OHV inline engines, up to 375 original CID shall be classified as XXO. Specialty cylinder heads are NOT allowed in this instance.
Overhead cam specialty cylinder heads are not allowed in the XF, XO, XXF, & XXO engine classes.
XX/PROD class is limited to cylinder head port configuration as originally designed. This applies to the XXF and XXO engine classes.
V4 (Vintage Four) class consists of any pre-1935 American- made four-cylinder automotive production engine, up to 220 CID. Specialty heads are allowed.
V4F (Vintage Four Flathead) class consists of any pre-1935 originally designed and American-made flathead four-cylinder automotive production engine, up to 220 CID. The engine shall have been produced as a valve in block engine, the camshaft must remain in the same location as produced (in the block). Only flathead-type cylinder heads (valve in block) are allowed. No specialty OHV or OHC conversion cylinder heads are allowed.
The Vintage Four engine classes (V4/V4F) are allowed in Special Construction and Vintage Categories only.
For reasons of economy and historical authenticity, vintage engine modifications and equipment used shall be restricted to older technology levels, so far as is practical. Accordingly, in classes XO, XF, XXF, XXO, V4 and V4F, using Vintage bodies:
1. Turbochargers are not permitted.
2. Computers, Section 2.Q, are allowed for data collection
purposes only.
3. Electronic fuel injection prohibited;
4. Any ignition system may be used.
NOTE: See exception under Rules for Vintage Oval Track Category.
2.B FUELS:
added sentence
EVENT DIESEL FUEL:
If the SCTA Contest Board establishes an EVENT diesel fuel, that fuel shall be used. USDA designated Food Grade Vegetable oil from a sealed container may be substituted for, or used in combination with EVENT diesel fuel.
If no EVENT diesel fuel is established, then the competitors may supply their own fuel and it shall be tested in the same manner as gasoline for additives.
2.F TIRES:
added exceptions
The use of any non-rated tire(s) such as implement, farm, aircraft, motorcycle, reproduction of a vintage automobile tire, motorcycle tire/rim, 17" drag race tires or any non-pneumatic wheel/tire combination (no rubber) shall be submitted for approval. Any request for deviation from any rule contained in this Rule Book shall be submitted in writing in accordance with the RULE DEVIATION procedure, Section 1.R.
2.G WHEELS:
deleted sentence
NONFERROUS WHEELS: All non-tapered lug nuts that come in direct contact with the wheel shall have a ¼ inch thick steel retaining plate or large OD heavy gauge individual washers under all lug nuts. (This does not apply to spindle mounted nonferrous wheels.) Magnesium wheels are not recommended and, if used, shall have an initial Zyglo certificate and stamp available. Zyglo inspections made with tires mounted are accepted. Wheels are to be re-inspected if any adverse condition arises. It is recommended that tire pressure used on two-piece wheels NOT exceed 60 PSI or manufacturer’s specifications.
WHEEL COVERS: The prohibition against “wheel covering” in some class rules does not apply to “full wheel” discs, which are legal in all categories if securely fastened to the wheels with six (6) or more machine grade screws or three (3) Duzs-type fasteners. Inner wheel discs shall be securely mounted to the wheel or axle. All hubcaps shall be removed. Fender skirts are not allowed except in Streamliner class.
SECTION 3 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS & REQUIREMENTS
added sentence
3.B ROLL CAGES:
ALL CARS IN COMPETITION SHALL BE EQUIPPED WITH A FULL ROLL CAGE.
ANY REQUEST FOR ANY DEVIATION TO ROLL STRUCTURE RULES SHALL BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULE DEVIATION PROCEDURE, SECTION 1.R.
Low carbon (mild) steel tubing is recommended for the construction of roll cage structures. Threaded pipe, pipefitting, lap weld pipe, magnesium or aluminum is not permitted. All bolts shall be 3/8 inch. minimum diameter and a grade 5 minimum.
All bolted structures shall have at least two bolts (180 deg. apart) through support pads and roll cage structure brace connections.
On unitized construction and monocque cars, the roll cage structure and braces shall have ¼ inch thick support pads on the top and bottom of the floor (or sill), in a sandwich construction and shall be of sufficient area to support an impact load equal to the weight of the car. For cars weighing less than 2500 pounds these pads shall have a perimeter of at least 18 inches (i.e., 4 inch x 5 inch) and cars over 2500 pounds shall have at least 22 inches perimeter (i.e., 5 inch x 6 inch).
3.E DRIVER’S COMPARTMENT:
added clarification
All driver's compartments shall not be open to the lower exterior of the vehicle or track surface such that the driver is potentially exposed to dangers such as fire or debris as well as dust. A rear floor or aft bulkhead is required in all vehicles where applicable.
3.K BATTERIES:
added clarification
All batteries shall be properly secured with metal framework and fasteners. Plastic tie-downs are not allowed. Both wet cell and dry cell batteries may be mounted in the driver’s compartment, however wet cell batteries must be sealed in a spill-proof box. Dry cell type batteries(Optima, Odyssey, etc.) are exempt from this rule.
All vehicles shall be equipped with a main battery disconnect switch. The disconnect switch or a positive mechanical control (cable or rod) for the switch shall be located on the front or rear of the vehicle, operable externally and clearly marked.
3.M PARACHUTE:
added anchor spec
An approved parachute is required on all cars that qualify for the long course (175 MPH). Vehicles that exceed 300 MPH shall be equipped with two (2) independent parachute systems. Parachutes shall be securely mounted to a suitable cross-member using an anchor that is at least 1 inch diameter or 1/2 inch radius. All parachutes shall be opened during inspection. Special attention shall be given to the length and mounting point of the parachute tether line. The manufacturer’s recommendations should be followed regarding parachute size, mounting, etc.
On those vehicles required to have parachute(s), the deployment of the parachute(s) is at the driver’s discretion, consistent with safe and efficient event and vehicle operation.
Parachute failures, such as the parachute pack not opening, parachute canopy not opening, parachute separation from the vehicle, handling problems as a result of parachute opening, etc., will require a re-inspection.
ALL VEHICLES HAVING A PARACHUTE FAILURE SHALL RETURN TO THE INSPECTION AREA WITH ALL COMPONENTS OF THE PARACHUTE SYSTEM. A NOTATION WILL BE MADE IN THE VEHICLE LOG BOOK DESCRIBING THE FAILURE AND SOLUTION.
3.Q FIRE EXTINGUISHING SYSTEMS:
added approved agents
All cars and enclosed motorcycles shall have a minimum of one driver-controlled fire extinguishing system using a minimum of 10 lbs. of extinguishing agent designed and applied to function as driver protection. Approved agents include Halon 1301, Halon 1211, DuPont FE36, and certain AFFF systems including Cold Fire 302, ESS Foam, Firefox Gemfoam, Halotron or other Halon replacement certified by the manufacturer for use in a confined space. Dry chemical and CO2 may be used in the engine compartment only. The application and installation shall be in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations for the size and shape of the driver’s compartment. The discharge rate should be designed to allow sufficient protection for the time it will take the car to stop from speed.
3.Y OIL TANK VENTING:
added new requirement
Any oil tank within the driver's compartment shall be vented to the outside and lower portion of the vehicle.
SECTION 4 DEFINITIONS
4.I CHOPPING:
new rewrite of definition
The reduction of the overall height of a closed top vehicle, where the original general top contour is maintained. Materials can be added or removed to maintain the original shape. Size and base positioning of pillars must be in original OEM locations. Category specific requirements must be met.
4.R HOOD SCOOPS:
added new paragraph for blown engines
Vehicles using a top-mounted blower may have a hood scoop which is no taller than 2 inches above the fuel injector or carburetor(s). The scoop may extend to the rear no further than the back of the blower and terminate at that point. The scoop cannot extend to the windshield and will not exceed a total height of 11 inches, measured at the centerline of the hood. Hood scoops for blower types other than top-mounted may not exceed the specifications for unblown applications as noted in the paragraph above.
4.LL COMPUTER:
added new definition
A computer shall be defined as any electronic device (i.e. ECU, ECM, etc.) that activates any function of, or in any way affects, the operation of, the engine based on measurement, sensing, processing, etc. of any data related to the performance of the engine.
4.MM COWL:
added new definition
The cowl area is defined as the portion of the body bounded by the front fenders, the base of the windshield and the rear edge of the hood as measured at the centerline of the vehicle.
SECTION 5 CAR CLASSES
5.B.5 VINTAGE OVAL TRACK - /VOT
MIDGET VINTAGE OVAL TRACK - /MVOT
added legal engine description
rewrite legal brake system
The vintage engines permitted in this class have to be built with pre-1948 design American-made engine blocks; i.e., no modern overhead V8s or blowers are allowed.
At least 2 brakes on either the front or the rear axle are required. No front wheel only braking systems are allowed. Brakes must be mounted outside the body.
5.D MODIFIED CATEGORY
redefined allowable vehicles
This category encompasses American and foreign coupes and sedans unaltered in height, width or contour, and with all stock panels mounted in original relationship to each other. The vehicle has been modified to such an extent that it no longer fits into the Production Category. A generic requirement for this category is the car shall have been originally produced with factory-installed seating for 4 or more people, i.e. adults or children. If the car was produced and sold with 2 seats on some models and 4 seats (including jump seats) on other models, the car will be classified as a Coupe and Sedan. Examples include Honda CRX, Ford Mustang GT 350's, Porsche, Nissan Z 2+2, etc. Non-factory modifications to add seats will not be considered as defining seating configurations for classification purposes.
5.D.1 COMPETITION COUPE & SEDAN - /BFCC, /FCC, /BGCC, /GCC
delete sentence
Other than top chopping, no modification to the body is allowed. Minimum vertical windshield height is 5 inches. The front and rear chop shall be equal. Window openings may be covered by flush mounted flat plates on the outside of the opening or left open.
5.D.2 ALTERED COUPE - /BFALT, /FALT, /BGALT, /GALT
delete partial sentence
Pre-1949 bodies may be chopped, Section 4.I. The chop shall be equal front to rear and shall retain a vertical windshield height of at least 6 in. above the top of the cowl with a maximum horizontal length of 7 inches from the base of the windshield at the center of the car.
5.D.4 MODIFIED SPORTS - /BFMS, /FMS, /BGMS, GMS
rewrite allowable top chop specs
Coupe tops may be chopped. The top chop must maintain a minimum vertical windshield height of 5 inches. The lower location of the A, B and/or C pillars must be in original OEM location and the A pillar must be OEM width. A top chop by definition alters the contour of the vehicles.
5.E PRODUCTION CATEGORY
redefine allowable vehicles
This category is intended to represent typical transportation vehicles, which may be purchased from ANY automobile dealer. A generic requirement for this category is the car shall have been originally produced with factory-installed seating for 4 or more people, i.e. adults or children. If the car was produced and sold with 2 seats on some models and 4 seats (including jump seats) on other models, the car will be classified as a Coupe and Sedan. Examples include Honda CRX, Ford Mustang GT 350's, Porsche, Nissan Z 2+2, etc. Non-factory modifications to add seats will not be considered as defining seating configurations for classification purposes.
5.F DIESEL TRUCK CATEGORY
5.F.4 DIESEL TRUCK - /DT
rewrite class specs
This class is for mid/mini and full-size diesel-powered pickup trucks of American or foreign manufacture. The body shall remain unaltered in height, width and contour, with all stock panels mounted in original relationship to each other. Air dams are allowed. Removal of antenna, wipers, wiper motors, mirrors, trim moldings and emblems are allowed. Any dash board may be used. Roll cages are mandatory. Down bars are allowed. A radiator and/or intercooler shall be mounted behind the grille and be at least as large as the original intercooler or radiator opening. Any pre-'48 truck may have a 3-inch beauty chop. The firewall and cab floorboards may be modified. If equipment is mounted in the truck bed, it must be lower than the bed rails and not extend thru the bed floor. Any ducting, hoses, etc. must be sealed to the bed to prevent air venting.
Engine swaps are allowed. Maximum engine setback is 2% of the wheelbase. Driveline (trans and rear end) swaps are allowed. A driveshaft hoop for each section of the drive shaft is required. Front and rear suspension may be modified or replaced for ride height and/or handling. The wheelbase shall be stock. The stock frame shall be used with necessary reinforcement and modifications for suspension, engine and transmission mounts.
The exhaust may exit behind the cab above the low pressure area, which for the rules is determined to be a line 45 deg. from the rear cab top extending to the top of the bed rail height. The pipe to floor and bed cap clearance shall be no greater than 1/8 inch to prevent venting of under truck air.
The covering of pickup beds with tarps or panels is allowed. The cover shall be no higher than the edge of the pickup bed. Aftermarket bed caps are allowed but shall not allow any aerodynamic advantage. Pickups may run with the tailgate raised, lowered or removed.
This class shall use Event Diesel Fuel, Section 2.B. Fuel may be tested.
Turbochargers and superchargers may be used; these engines will not be handicapped with a class jump.
Engine classes allowed are AA, A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H
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4.R HOOD SCOOPS:
added new paragraph for blown engines
Vehicles using a top-mounted blower may have a hood scoop which is no taller than 2 inches above the fuel injector or carburetor(s). The scoop may extend to the rear no further than the back of the blower and terminate at that point. The scoop cannot extend to the windshield and will not exceed a total height of 11 inches, measured at the centerline of the hood. Hood scoops for blower types other than top-mounted may not exceed the specifications for unblown applications as noted in the paragraph above.
I'm assuming the above does not apply to a vehicle such as a comp couple where streamlining is allowed ahead of the cowl as long as any scoop or covering does not extend back into the cowl area??
Also "no taller than 2 inches above the fuel injector or carb"? 2 inches does not allow much of a radius into the top of the carb. How about a blown motor with no injectors in the hat but down in the runners, how can it meet the rule?
And "will not exceed a total height of 11 inches"?
Here is but ...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-3/774-1-06.jpg)
.. one car picked at random that might not meet the 11 inches yet it doesn't have an excessive scoop. I'd think there might be a number of cars that might run 871 blowers or other large blowers that might have a hard time meeting 11 inches. Isn't that why blown cars were exempt from the 11 inch height?
I don't think this rule change will effect us but if I'm reading it right it could effect a number of cars. Maybe I'm just not reading it right since no one else has responded to it,
Sum
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Slim, do you have the bike rule changes?.
Andrew
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4.R HOOD SCOOPS:
added new paragraph for blown engines
Vehicles using a top-mounted blower may have a hood scoop which is no taller than 2 inches above the fuel injector or carburetor(s). The scoop may extend to the rear no further than the back of the blower and terminate at that point. The scoop cannot extend to the windshield and will not exceed a total height of 11 inches, measured at the centerline of the hood. Hood scoops for blower types other than top-mounted may not exceed the specifications for unblown applications as noted in the paragraph above.
I'm assuming the above does not apply to a vehicle such as a comp couple where streamlining is allowed ahead of the cowl as long as any scoop or covering does not extend back into the cowl area??
Also "no taller than 2 inches above the fuel injector or carb"? 2 inches does not allow much of a radius into the top of the carb. How about a blown motor with no injectors in the hat but down in the runners, how can it meet the rule?
And "will not exceed a total height of 11 inches"?
Here is but ...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-3/774-1-06.jpg)
.. one car picked at random that might not meet the 11 inches yet it doesn't have an excessive scoop. I'd think there might be a number of cars that might run 871 blowers or other large blowers that might have a hard time meeting 11 inches. Isn't that why blown cars were exempt from the 11 inch height?
I don't think this rule change will effect us but if I'm reading it right it could effect a number of cars. Maybe I'm just not reading it right since no one else has responded to it,
Sum
Yeah Sum...The rule maker and voters probably weren't thinking of bug catchers as hood scoops but if you think about it that's what they are. Well maybe not if their not part of the hood.
Also a lot of these types of blowers and bug catchers ''air catchers'' are inside the cowl and windshield.
JL222
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Sum,
Why did you change the picture of your example? Did you realize that the first photo showed a shot of a hood bubble and not a scoop? There was no intake hole on the #299 roadster so it is not a 'scoop' as a layman knows it to be. The #299 car is an unblown class roadster. I have measured Ed's bubble and it is within the 11" rule. The sample you show has no scoop - it is a top mount blower with an injector, nothing more, nothing less.
JL222,
The rule proposer did think of the 'top hat', bug catcher type of intake when the proposed dimensions were written. I believe the thought was
why does a front engine, top mount blower with a bug catcher need a scoop? You are bringing your own air with you. The rule is aimed at those coupes and sedans that push the scoop rules beyond intent and make an aero device, which serves no purpose to the intake system, that streamlines the vehicle over and above the hood, to the windshield and over the roof of the car. If the top mount blower, bug catcher arrangement needs all that stuff the scoop can terminate a the rear of the blower and not the windshield.
Once again I will advise those that have an issue with the rules process to become involved.
DW
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....The rule proposer did think of the 'top hat', bug catcher type of intake when the proposed dimensions were written. I believe the thought was why does a front engine, top mount blower with a bug catcher need a scoop? ....
I obviously thought a bug/bird catcher was a scoop. I guess I still don't see the difference but if there is then I guess there is. We did have a bug catcher on the Stude when it had the roots blower and the scoop fed directly into it. No need having the frontal area of the bug catcher out in the air stream. For those reading this we also weren't the only car that had the scoop housing in the configuration we did.
How was the 2 inches above the carb derived? That would seem to be pretty restrictive as an unblown engine doesn't have that restriction and if you run the bug catcher you don't have that restriction.
The new ruling doesn't effect us that I see now so I guess I'll pass on any further discussion. Thanks for clarifying the wording though,
Sum
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So lets see if I have this right. I can use a blower fuel injection hat like that in the first picture.
But I cannot use the blower hat in the second picture with the scoop that was made for it in picture three.
Correct or did I miss something?
Tom G.
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^^^^^ Pretty much. Don't like it? Propose a change and go to the meeting. I went. And I didn't have a dog in the fight.
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Then a Hilborn 4 port would be legal but the scoop that has been used for years would not. I must be missing something, because I cannot believe this scoop would be illegal to use now.
Tom G.
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Then a Hilborn 4 port would be legal but the scoop that has been used for years would not. I must be missing something, because I cannot believe this scoop would be illegal to use now.
Tom G.
(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13371.0;attach=44063;image)
And if a scoop like that was on top of two 4 barrel carbs that were atop of a blower it would be illegal now also.
I can see the purpose of the new wording, not that I agree with it, but the way it is written it will help to kill roots type blown cars even more by putting them at even a greater disadvantage vs. turbo or centrifugal supercharged cars. I really don't think the wording was meant to have that effect but it does.
If you put an intercooler under your 8-71 or even 6-71 to help it compete against the turbo cars it is also going to be hard to stay under the 11 inch rule,
Sum
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Dan
2.F TIRES:
added exceptions
The use of any non-rated tire(s) such as implement, farm, aircraft, motorcycle, reproduction of a vintage automobile tire,
Definition of "non-rated"?
Does this mean that I need to get deviation clearance from the board for my DUNLOP, reproduction, vintage automobile "RACING" tires?
Thanks Dan, for all you do for all of us.
Ron
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Ron, I would send in a note and ask. Can't hurt and it's still early in the next season...
Tom, Sum and others, I think scoops are body panels, and the proposed rule change is about building around and over engine parts like a bug catcher for streamlining. I could be wrong... I think that is the intent
Dan?
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SSS were you going to fix the strikes and bolds...
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Ron,
Yes, do send a note to Lee or Kiwi.
Stainless,
You have the rule correct. The question about the Hilborn style scoop vrs. a bug catcher is a touch off, I can see why. Different names for the same items. The rule for blown, top mounted blowers, hood scoops refers to additional body work built around the exposed blower and injector/carbs. The scoop shown is apart of the system and allowed. If you are building something I suggest that you get written approval for your design.
DW
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Tom.....excellent scoop foto.
FREUD
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Tom, Sum and others, I think scoops are body panels, and the proposed rule change is about building around and over engine parts like a bug catcher for streamlining. I could be wrong... I think that is the intent
Dan?
Thanks Stainless. I understand what the intent of the rule is but I don't think it was worded as to not confuse John Q. Public when reading the rule book, but that is JMO.
Stainless,
You have the rule correct. The question about the Hilborn style scoop vrs. a bug catcher is a touch off, I can see why. Different names for the same items. The rule for blown, top mounted blowers, hood scoops refers to additional body work built around the exposed blower and injector/carbs. The scoop shown is apart of the system and allowed. If you are building something I suggest that you get written approval for your design.
DW
Dan,
This is where I get confused. When you buy a Hilborn 4 port upright injector, it does not include the Scoop as shown in the picture. That is an option that costs more money to buy and is a bolt on unit.
So are you saying that as long as the top of the upright injector has a scoop that was made by the injector manufacturer even though it is more than 2" above the injector, it is OK? As in the second and third pictures of my first post?
Or would this all be considered under 4.B. Air Intake, and be legal? and not under 4.R Hood Scoops.
Thanks,
Tom G.
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Nothing say's you must run hood scoop on a blown engine.....
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I'm not building a car that this 'scoop' rule applies to and I don't think Hooley is planning on going back to a roots type blower but for those that are I feel the new rules are putting them at a further unfair disadvantage.
Naturally aspirated, turbo cars and centrifugal blown cars can all have streamlining around their components and air inlet track. Now it looks to me that a mechanical type blower is going to be limited on that packaging and forced into using a much larger air inlet (scoop, bug catcher) than is needed that has more frontal area with a higher Cd vs. what could be used for our cars.
Why not just say that the blower enclosure and scoop can't extend further back than the cowl if the blower is in front of the cowl or no further back than the back of the blower if the blower is in the cowl/windshield area?
The blower enclosure/scoop can be considered part of the hood as it was ...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-1/299-1-06.jpg)
... on the first car I posted, before as Dan mentioned realizing that the enclosure (bubble) wasn't around a
blower. Also note the scoop that has been made is no where near as large as a bug catcher or the other scoops above that have been declared legal.
As I understand the rules enclosures for some types of air inlets and raised parts of the hood can go beyond the cowl towards the windshield and just can't touch the windshield with one type having to remain 1 inch from it and the other type 2 inches from it depending if it is getting air from that area or not.
I admit to being guilty of not being more involved in the rule making process so please indulge a couple of possibly ignorant questions. I did read this past summer here the discussion about the confusion surrounding blown car's scoops and what was and was not allowed. I'm assuming the new rule is to help clarify that. Was the new wording presented somewhere ahead of when it was approved or is the wording for these rules per-submitted but not public before being read and voted on all at one meeting. Can someone explain the complete process or point me to where it is described? Thanks,
Sum
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Sumner, turbos / centrifugals will almost always be a better choice for blown gas and I don't think the blown fuel guys care.....
If it turns into a problem there's always the rules change form on the SCTA web site.
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Nothing say's you must run hood scoop on a blown engine.....
Thanks Mike, now I get it.
Tom G.
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For all,
The rule process is described on page one of your rule book, last paragraph.
The basic deal is this;
You submit a rule change proposal on the type in form available on the www.scta-bni.org website. This proposal goes to Mike Manghelli who distributes to the appropriate committee chair. The proposal is discussed among the committee and the rule is then sent back to Mike for adding to the meeting agenda. If I may interject at this point, it may help you to discuss your idea with the committee chair before hand so that he/she can offer suggestions based on history and current thinking.
A couple of weeks ahead of the scheduled meeting, in early November, Mike will send the agenda out to the SCTA club presidents for discussion by their membership and solicit either a yes or no vote by a majority of the club. If you are a SCTA club member either local or out of state and was not involved in this process please contact your club president. I will admit here that only SCTA members are privy to the proposals. I cannot figure out how to allow the BNI only members to view the proposals and keep the return input somehow under control.
At the meeting a select group of people will vote on each proposal. There is some discussion, many times involving word smiting only again based on history and current philosophy. The group includes representatives from each club who will vote the club's majority. The committee chairs (or designee), the chief inspectors for both car and bike. The car guys do not vote on bike issues and the bike guys do not vote on the car proposals.
Some are passed and some are dismissed, some are withdrawn because there may be several inputs to the same rule. Sometimes a proposal will be withdrawn because a passed one will cover the same area in a different manner. All are looked at, some which will benefit a single agenda are generally dismissed as not benefiting the masses. This process takes place on a single day in 7 to 10 hour period. We have tried to do the meeting over a two day process, 1-2 weeks apart, and does not work. Personal schedules and the last SCTA meet of the year intervene.
The passed proposals are then taken by me and put into rule book format for clarity and sent to the SCTA board members for review. At the November board meeting a vote for passage is taken. There is again some discussion from the floor, this year was the V4 ignition deal. Some proposals are passed by the board, some are not. The final, approved rules are then incorporated into the rule book and sent to the printer where the text, photos, ads, etc. are assembled and printed. Oh yeah - following the final vote I will get a phone call from a committee chair saying "I forgot to delete a redundant sentence", or something like that.
Hope this answers the question of how the process works.
Questions?
DW
PS - I should be working on the rule book instead of Internet viewing
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.....A couple of weeks ahead of the scheduled meeting, in early November, Mike will send the agenda out to the SCTA club presidents for discussion by their membership and solicit either a yes or no vote by a majority of the club. If you are a SCTA club member either local or out of state and was not involved in this process please contact your club president. I will admit here that only SCTA members are privy to the proposals. ....
Thanks for taking the time to input the process, it is helpful. The club I'm in is great about e-mailing club minutes and SCTA minutes but I don't remember seeing much about purposed rule changes. Maybe the problem is on my end and I got it but didn't look at the e-mail with that info. I'll check on it and try and be more informed/involved in the future.
As I've mentioned above the new rulings don't effect me so I guess I'll let those effected decide how much then might want to be involved,
Sumner
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Hey Slim , did you get the bike rules from Matt
G
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I sent the rule changes to Slim twice, don't know why he has not posted them.
DW
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Links to the two (very readable) .pdf's havr been posted on the opening page all day.
Mike
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Oh, wow, Dan -- I didn't even notice that the bike rule changes were there. Crap! I'm sorry, folks, that I didn't look more carefully. I promise I'll get 'em here in a few minutes. That's a sacrifice -- Nancy's calling me to go to bed now. :evil:
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See what happens when you don't open each and every attachment? I guess I assumed (that nasty word) that there were just two versions of the one set of rules.
I apologise, folks. Here are the bike rules. By the way -- if the formatting (bold, strike through, highlighted colors) doesn't come through (as it didn't on the car rules) - give me 'til morning to figure out why. But anyway:
Here -- try this. Click on it and you should get a .pdf of the Motorcycle rules/changes.
http://www.landracing.com/docs/2014_rulebook_changes_mc.pdf
Car rules pdf:
http://www.landracing.com/docs/2014_rulebook_changes_cars.pdf (http://www.landracing.com/docs/2014_rulebook_changes_cars.pdf)
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I havent been able to find a USA available helmet listed with both "Snell AND ECE" as the new rule requires.
My Snell 2010 Bell does NOT have the now required ECE cert. Just got that helmet, right before Speedweek...only got 4 passes out of it. :|
It must be possible, because Kylin in China lists one for internet sale, and an English reviewer writes about a dual cert Arai RX7 GP that is not a USA available item (maybe because no DOT cert?)
Any ideas? I'm glad we got this info early, I was thinking I'd be all set for next year (I know...you cant really do that...)
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I was looking on wiki and it looks like the ECE cert is for helmets sold in europe and in other country's and the snell cert is for helmets sold here in the usa. The testing for helmets be it ece or snell looks about the same. so i would think that if your helmet has ece or snell you can use it. now the thing is are the helmet company's going to put both cert's on there helmets no matter where they are going to be sold. will scta accept a helmet with just one cert be it ece or snell or will the helmet need both cert's to be legal. the way i read the rule is if you come across the pond then your helmet must have the ece cert but if you are here in the usa then your helmet will have the snell cert.
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I hope someone will clairify "allowing European" helmet specs vs "which shall meet
Snell Foundation M2005 or later specifications and European ECE 22.05.05, 2010 or newer"
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Well put Michael. Maybe the wording should have read either or.
Merged topics
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Its 'or', accepted helmets will meet one spec or the other. Looks like our highly paid proof reader missed one.
DW
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Its hard to get good help these days!! :evil:
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atrocity...with what their getting paid ... f'in inexcusable..
Dodge sure better have his "burger card" pulled ...and he better not be allowed to work the first two days of SW...teach him a lesson..
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Kudos to all who allowed this decision re helmets to be made.... :-D....a wise decision
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Its 'or', accepted helmets will meet one spec or the other. Looks like our highly paid proof reader missed one.
DW
I figured the hundred or so proof readers out here is why you posted before the final goes to the printer... :-D
Yes we are paying attention.... so you can change it back to or... :cheers:
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That way there'd be three ors in the one sentence, giving you lots more alternatives.
(By the way, proofreader's one word.)
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Sumner, turbos / centrifugals will almost always be a better choice for blown gas and I don't think the blown fuel guys care.....
Yea, but the turbo's are not legal in vintage, and the centrifugal is not nearly as traditional as a roots blower!
Well, I was going to stay out of the hood scoop discussion, but can’t!
With all respect to the author of the new rule, it was written in response to a proposal I made, because the author feels that we should not be able to gain an aero advantage off of a hood scoop.
Sooo, let me see if I get this straight!
If I run an unblown car, I can have an 11” tall hood scoop.
If I run a turbo, or centrifugal blower, I can have an 11” hood scoop.
…BUT, if I run a roots blower, and my injector hat is 1” above the hood, I can only have a 3” hood scoop? REALLY?
Dan, you stated “why does a front engine, top mount blower with a bug catcher need a scoop? You are bringing your own air with you, ” and that’s true, but I also have more drag because of it. Also, I get ’cleaner’ air by grabbing the air out in front of the car. So, because I run a more ‘traditional’ style blower, I’m to be penalized by being allowed less streamlining than a NA or turbo’d car?
The whole argument that “The rule is aimed at those coupes and sedans that push the scoop rules beyond intent and make an aero device, which serves no purpose to the intake system, that streamlines the vehicle over and above the hood, to the windshield and over the roof of the car. “, seems contradictory to what we are doing. We allow some cars the aero advantage, and not others, yet are we not striving to find better ways, to go fast safer?
IMHO, this rule needs to be looked at again!
So, are hood scoops legal in altered class? :evil:
The cowl rule also has me a little concerned also. Last year, we were told that the cowl point that the streamlining was allowed to was the base of the windshield. The new rule leaves me wondering:
4.MM COWL:
added new definition
The cowl area is defined as the portion of the body bounded by the front fenders, the base of the windshield and the
rear edge of the hood as measured at the centerline of the vehicle.
The hood scoop rule says we can go to the back of the blower, which on my car, is behind the back edge of the hood. Cowl rule indicated the cowl is between the windshield and rear edge of the hood.
So, at what exact point does the streamlining stop?
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Its 'or', accepted helmets will meet one spec or the other. Looks like our highly paid proof reader missed one.
DW
Flog that guy! :-D
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Its 'or', accepted helmets will meet one spec or the other. Looks like our highly paid proof reader missed one.
DW
Flog that guy! :-D
Or get him a better quality wine.
:cheers:
Mike
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Just curious
At what point in time did the personal injury attorney review the rules? Or a serious car builder?
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7.G.10
OPEN CLASS - SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION - A
The sides of the fender may fair into the fork tubes or tire, but shall not be over 2 inches wider overall than these parts.
The rear fender shall not extend beyond the back of the rear tire.
If a seat, tail section or fender is used, it must not extend more than 3 inches past the rear of the rear tire or cover any of the wheel when viewed from the side.
Then it says,
No part of the tail section shall be lower than the top of the rear rim, or over 36 inches from the ground, with the rider seated on the bike.
Does this mean the Tire/Tyre can be covered when the Rider is seated on the Bike. Then if the Bike is sitting without a Rider the whole of the Rear wheel must be visible?
Pete :cheers:
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Yes you can cover the Tire but the rim must be visible... The rules say wheel and rim... The rim is part of the wheel where the Tire mounts... So as long as the wheel/rim is visible the Tire can be covered is how I read it....
If you go to a bike shop or hotrod Shop alike and buy a new wheel or rim chances are you have to buy a tire to mount on it.... Changing a rim is much different than a tire according to my service manuals
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Yes you can cover the Tire but the rim must be visible... The rules say wheel and rim... The rim is part of the wheel where the Tire mounts... So as long as the wheel/rim is visible the Tire can be covered is how I read it....
If you go to a bike shop or hotrod Shop alike and buy a new wheel or rim chances are you have to buy a tire to mount on it.... Changing a rim is much different than a tire according to my service manuals
My interpretation has always been that a Tire/Tyre + a Rim makes up a Wheel.
That is why I posted it, it is unclear and open to interpretation.
If a Wheel and a Rim are the same thing, under the Rules, and it is referred to as a Wheel everywhere else in the Rules, then simply call it that. Maybe the wording could be written as "7.B.10 Wheel/Rim"?
I don't care one way or another what the Tail Section Rules are, I just like to see the Rules written in a consistent, clear and simple way, it helps all of us, Officials and Competitors alike.
Pete :cheers:
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So, at what exact point does the streamlining stop?
LOL Buddy on a lakester it has to stop at the inner plane of the narrowest tire! :-D
It would appear that you should have submitted your "Buddy's hood scoop rule" to read:
:evil: We in the SCTA love the look of traditional blowers and we want to see them, rather than see you go fast with them by hiding them from us! :roll: YMMV
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So, at what exact point does the streamlining stop?
LOL Buddy on a lakester it has to stop at the inner plane of the narrowest tire! :-D
It would appear that you should have submitted your "Buddy's hood scoop rule" to read:
:evil: We in the SCTA love the look of traditional blowers and we want to see them, rather than see you go fast with them by hiding them from us! :roll: YMMV
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Yes you can cover the Tire but the rim must be visible... The rules say wheel and rim... The rim is part of the wheel where the Tire mounts... So as long as the wheel/rim is visible the Tire can be covered is how I read it....
If you go to a bike shop or hotrod Shop alike and buy a new wheel or rim chances are you have to buy a tire to mount on it.... Changing a rim is much different than a tire according to my service manuals
My interpretation has always been that a Tire/Tyre + a Rim makes up a Wheel.
That is why I posted it, it is unclear and open to interpretation.
If a Wheel and a Rim are the same thing, under the Rules, and it is referred to as a Wheel everywhere else in the Rules, then simply call it that. Maybe the wording could be written as "7.B.10 Wheel/Rim"?
I don't care one way or another what the Tail Section Rules are, I just like to see the Rules written in a consistent, clear and simple way, it helps all of us, Officials and Competitors alike.
Pete :cheers:
i think its quite specific ,
wheel (tire and rim) must be visible from the side, fender is allowed to be 3" beyond the tire and none of it lower than the rim
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I can now see why the change in the wording to the Tail Section. :roll:
It looks like it's there to make sure the "Fender" does not cover anything other than the Tire/Tyre.
If confused you gotta ask the question, that's why I ask a lot of questions :-D
Pete :cheers:
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Overarching category of VINTAGE ENGINES insists on American-made production engine blocks.
Yet as a subcategory, V4 and V4F have specifically stricken the "American made" clause.
So can I finally put together that MG J3 supercharged overhead cam 4, stuff it in a chopped Bantam Roadster and go vintage racing on the salt?
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Overarching category of VINTAGE ENGINES insists on American-made production engine blocks.
Yet as a subcategory, V4 and V4F have specifically stricken the "American made" clause.
So can I finally put together that MG J3 supercharged overhead cam 4, stuff it in a chopped Bantam Roadster and go vintage racing on the salt?
Chris,
No on the MG J3, I think there is a mistake somewhere along the line and what you have stated is not true. I know, I know, that is what is stated, but I think there has been a mistake in posting that.
I will let someone else chime in and explain what happened, and why?
Tom G.
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Because the rewritten 2.A.1 Vintage Engines includes the words "American-made production engine blocks" it applies to all subsections of vintage engines. The redundant words in each subsection were removed for clarity, or so thought someone.
DW
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So benign xenophobia is still the overarching theme. :-D
Seeing as the word "economy" was also stricken (I laughed at that - I always have), it was my hope that the newfound sense of reality had been augmented by a sense of esprit de corps.
I'll keep my eurotrash to the back of the paddock . . .
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Because the rewritten 2.A.1 Vintage Engines includes the words "American-made production engine blocks" it applies to all subsections of vintage engines. The redundant words in each subsection were removed for clarity, or so thought someone.
DW
Ahhhh, So this is a case of the rarely seen "Same Rule - Less Words" ?
I have heard of this, but never actually seen one in the wild.
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"less words" - a rare breed indeed. Many an explorer has gone missing in search of this animal.
DW
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lol :cheers:
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So now I have a question regarding wheel skirts:
2.G WHEELS: deleted sentence NONFERROUS WHEELS: All non-tapered lug nuts that come in direct contact with the wheel shall have a ¼ inch thick steel retaining plate or large OD heavy gauge individual washers under all lug nuts. (This does not apply to spindle mounted nonferrous wheels.) Magnesium wheels are not recommended and, if used, shall have an initial Zyglo certificate and stamp available. Zyglo inspections made with tires mounted are accepted. Wheels are to be re-inspected if any adverse condition arises. It is recommended that tire pressure used on two-piece wheels NOT exceed 60 PSI or manufacturer’s specifications. WHEEL COVERS: The prohibition against “wheel covering” in some class rules does not apply to “full wheel” discs, which are legal in all categories if securely fastened to the wheels with six (6) or more machine grade screws or three (3) Duzs-type fasteners. Inner wheel discs shall be securely mounted to the wheel or axle. All hubcaps shall be removed. Fender skirts are not allowed except in Streamliner class.
So on the rule change page, the phrase "fender skirts are not allowed except in streamliner class". This rule has been crossed out (as above), so does that mean in any class that skirts are accepted?
TIA
Clay
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Hope so. Just finishing up my full skirts for our Street Roadster.
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No, just the opposite. If "fender skirts are not allowed..." They are not allowed.
DW
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Dam!
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Dam!
Thats some funny stuff :cheers:
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2.G WHEELS:
deleted sentence
NONFERROUS WHEELS: All non-tapered lug nuts that come in direct contact with the wheel shall have a ¼ inch thick steel retaining plate or large OD heavy gauge individual washers under all lug nuts. (This does not apply to spindle mounted nonferrous wheels.) Magnesium wheels are not recommended and, if used, shall have an initial Zyglo certificate and stamp available. Zyglo inspections made with tires mounted are accepted. Wheels are to be re-inspected if any adverse condition arises. It is recommended that tire pressure used on two-piece wheels NOT exceed 60 PSI or manufacturer’s specifications.
WHEEL COVERS: The prohibition against “wheel covering” in some class rules does not apply to “full wheel” discs, which are legal in all categories if securely fastened to the wheels with six (6) or more machine grade screws or three (3) Duzs-type fasteners. Inner wheel discs shall be securely mounted to the wheel or axle. All hubcaps shall be removed. Fender skirts are not allowed except in Streamliner class.
I'm looking at that line and waiting for someone to turn up in motorcycle tech and say
"but in 2.G it states these wheel discs are legal in all classes."
It should possably read, "all car classes"
G
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Graham, That is in the car section, not the bike section... if they show up, tell to read the wheel rules in the Motorcycle section of the book
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Graham, That is in the car section, not the bike section... if they show up, tell to read the wheel rules in the Motorcycle section of the book
I know that. And you know that. But it still says all classes
And anyway. The motorcycle section refers you to the car section for streamliners.
And I know what I'll be saying to them. And I'm pretty sure they'll understand, even with my accent
G
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That part is OK, Streamliners can run moons if they want
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I can't for the life of me seem to find a rule book anywhere. The link on the SCTA webpage to purchase them seems to be broken? I all can find is t-shirts and stickers? Is there a PDF version of one online that I can find somewhere or a link to a thread that breaks everything down?
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You can probably still buy a 2013 from the USFRA, there is a link to them on the front page. The 14 books are headed to the printer about now so if the SCTA is sold out, they won't have a working link.
The rules are not published online.
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I guess they are sold out because I can't find one to order anywhere. I will hold tight and hope the 2014's come out soon.
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I guess they are sold out because I can't find one to order anywhere. I will hold tight and hope the 2014's come out soon.
It is best to call the office when they are back open,
Sum
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Here's JoAnn Carlson's email address. office@scta-bni.org
She's the SCTA secretary/office manager/do most everything person and will probably be able to tell you the true scoop about the '13 rulebooks' availability -- and also that of the '14. We already have been told here that the '14 book is at the print shop, but maybe JoAnn'll have a scheduled arrival date. It is the Christmas holiday, even in California, so give her a chance to recover relax before you expect a reply.
Happy New Year, too.
fixed it for ya Slim
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Here's JoAnn Carlson's email address. office@scta-bni.org
She's the SCTA secretary/office manager/do most everything person and will probably be able to tell you the true scoop about the '13 rulebooks' availability -- and also that of the '14. We already have been told here that the '14 book is at the print shop, but maybe JoAnn'll have a scheduled arrival date. It is the Christmas holiday, even in California, so give her a chance to recover relax before you expect a reply.
Happy New Year, too.
fixed it for ya Slim
Thanks for all the info! I will give her a shout after the holiday and track down some rule books :)
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I see two items that bring up question marks in my mind
"Under penalty of disqualification, expulsion or permanent ban, no modifications (additions, deletions, or changes) are permitted to either vehicle equipment or driver/rider gear after passing Technical Inspection unless coordinated with the Event Director and Chief Technical Inspector. This includes any changes in vehicle condition due to breakdowns or failures, flat or damaged tires, spins, fires or any other reason. It is the entrant or driver/rider's responsibility to resubmit the vehicle to tech inspection for approval of any changes."
Does this mean if I change my spark plugs, or plug wires, or ignition box... I need to run it through tech every time??
Also, I am in the middle of changing my car to incorporate what used to be a legal 2 inch stretch in the cowl portion. But reading the new definition, any typical later model car that has the windshield run under the back edge of the hood (like a Camaro/Firebird/Mustang...) is no longer allowed to have that stretch.
"The cowl area is defined as the portion of the body bounded by the front fenders, the base of the windshield and the rear edge of the hood as measured at the centerline of the vehicle."
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I see two items that bring up question marks in my mind
"Under penalty of disqualification, expulsion or permanent ban, no modifications (additions, deletions, or changes) are permitted to either vehicle equipment or driver/rider gear after passing Technical Inspection unless coordinated with the Event Director and Chief Technical Inspector. This includes any changes in vehicle condition due to breakdowns or failures, flat or damaged tires, spins, fires or any other reason. It is the entrant or driver/rider's responsibility to resubmit the vehicle to tech inspection for approval of any changes."
Does this mean if I change my spark plugs, or plug wires, or ignition box... I need to run it through tech every time??
No, but it does mean that if you add ballast, change your seat belts, change your helmet, (actually, ANY of the required safety gear) or anything else that was checked/verified during tech inspection you have to present your changes to tech inspection before you run.
This rule was put in place to ensure that when the vehicle is run, it is in the same condition/configuration that it was when it was inspected.
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JR,
The wording as written is extremely broad. 'Any changes to vehicle equipment' can be interpreted as far as spark plugs or oil filters. Better wording for your interpretation might be 'any changes to safety related equipment or items scrutinized within the SCTA inspector's checklist' or something similar.
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You have to understand the motivation behind the rule wording.
'any changes to safety related equipment or items scrutinized within the SCTA inspector's checklist' or something similar.
This wording would not have prevented the incident which prompted this particular rule.
Perfect, no, but it gives the inspectors someplace to start. You just cannot fix stupid.
J
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JR,
The wording as written is extremely broad. 'Any changes to vehicle equipment' can be interpreted as far as spark plugs or oil filters. Better wording for your interpretation might be 'any changes to safety related equipment or items scrutinized within the SCTA inspector's checklist' or something similar.
I agree, it is very broadly written but I believe the reason behind this rule is to give the Board/Race Director somewhere to go when an entrant changes their car into a wildly unsafe condition after it has been inspected. I would rather it have been written like you suggested, referring to the tech checklist or something like that but it is what it is.
There have been issues in recent years where cars were inspected after on-track incidents and found to be missing safety equipment that was present on the vehicle during tech inspection, but removed as soon as the car got back to the pits, or build quality issues with work done at the event after the car has been through tech.
If you feel the need to present your car to tech inspection after changing the oil filter then please go ahead but don't get mad if the Tech Inspector plays along and asks you remove and cut open the new oil filter to make sure it is not different than the originally approved one, (which if here were really evil, he would ask you to go back and retrieve it from the trash so he could do a proper comparison). Rinse & repeat :-D
On the other hand, if you add 500lbs of lead to the nose of your car, clearing the new attachment method with tech would be a good idea. Duct tape alone may not be good enough...
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... the incident which prompted this particular rule...
In the interest of "transparency" in governance, why not share that incident with us "constituents"? No need for names, just the aspects of the incident.
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I think Glen posted about a vehicle incident where the driver was injured. After inspection, there was 4" of foam added to the seat which allowed the belts to become loose on impact and cause more injuries. That may not be the one but is one instance.
Ron
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Quote from: johnneilson on December 27, 2013, 07:31:24 AM
... the incident which prompted this particular rule...
In the interest of "transparency" in governance, why not share that incident with us "constituents"? No need for names, just the aspects of the incident.
Jack, for "transparency" it was "incidents" and it has been going on for years. No harm in asking.
A couple things in recent years include but are not limited to:
Added ballest (concret blocks) secured with nylon straps .....
Seat belts relocated to the outside of the seat "for comfort" .....
Different drivers suit on starting line (needed & tech with a 3.2-20 was using a 3.2-5) because it was "to hot" .....
The previously mentioned 4" thick foam .....
Do we need to go on?
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As long as we're talking about driver's suits -- a year or two ago a fellow showed up to ride his bike -- first time at Bville. As so often happens - his leathers didn't meet the rules. I offered mine - which DO meet all of the requirements and have the SCTA button on the left shoulder attesting to the legality of 'em. He took them to tech and got his inspection sticker.
A few days later Nancy and I were at the line and were expecting to have the silly/weird feeling of seeing my leathers on a bike about to go down the course. But no -- it was that guy, for sure, but he was wearing his own leathers. I asked him and he readily admitted that he just used mine to get through inspection. In other words, it happens for us bike racers, too.
Why the starter didn't notice the lack of the approved button is beyond me, but I did mention the incident to the Chief Tech - and I think he now reminds starters to make sure each racer has that on his leathers before being allowed to leave the line.
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... Do we need to go on?...
No. You've clarified things very well. Thank you. :-)
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Was it Will Rogers who said;
"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment"
J
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Concerning the dry sump venting in the rule change for 2014. Can the
vent/breather be mounted inside the trunk which is
separated by two individual bulkheads?
Dave # 3611
BGMS