Landracing Forum
El Mirage => El Mirage General Chat => Topic started by: skywalker18 on November 13, 2013, 10:19:49 PM
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I heard that the Hasport Honda had a pretty nasty wreck at El Mirage recently. Anyone have any updates on the driver? From the picture I saw, it looks as though they had to cut the cage to get the driver out. The front end broke away, taking some of the energy from the rolling, but it still looked like it was a rough ride. Hope the driver has a speedy recovery.
Here is the picture I saw on Facebook.
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1425737_701390633206952_1659212952_n.jpg)
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Anyone have any updates on the driver? Hope the driver has a speedy recovery.
The following was posted on the SCTA site under health and welfare.
Tom G.
11/11/13:
Miriam and I have just returned from visiting Brian Gillespie at the Arrowhead Medical Centre in Colton. He was admitted with a collapsed lung, a cut on his shin and severe bruising around the head. He is progressing very well; sitting up, talking - still sharp as a tack. All the vehicle's safety equipment functioned perfectly. His family extends their thanks to the SCTA for their help and support.
Doug and Miriam Macmillan
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Glad to hear he is doing well. Thank you for the information!!
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I am happy to say, I am okay. I got some bumps, bruises and cuts but am healing nicely. I also had a torn lung but the hole has closed up. I am looking forward to next season, coming out and supporting Hondata and am already planning my next vehicle.
Don't tell my wife.
brian g
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Glad to here you are on the mend. car is going to need a pait job.
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I am happy to say, I am okay. I got some bumps, bruises and cuts but am healing nicely. I also had a torn lung but the hole has closed up. I am looking forward to next season, coming out and supporting Hondata and am already planning my next vehicle.
Don't tell my wife.
brian g
Congrats on a great season, take the time to heal, think, build and come out and do it again..except the crashing part.
Glad to hear you are OK, once I heard you crashed I loaded my bike and went home, same as I did this year when we heard Bill Warner crashed his bike at the Texas Mile..
Take care Brian.
John & Michelle
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Looking at the photo makes me think airbags might be a good idea on some LSR cars.
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I hope I spur on some thought with this note. I also hate bringing up the past but when I feel it's revelant I will. I looked over the rule book and I'm not going to look thru all of of my last 35 years to see if what I'm going to interject is positive especially in this class but to me a vehicle with a 94.5" wheelbase at 200 MPH has got to be a lot to handle in the best of conditions let alone on El Mirage
A Honda Insight is areo because the manufacturer needed fuel milage. I can't imagine they tunnelled it for stability at 200 mph on loose dirt. The SCTA rule had wheelbase minimums for years for coupes and still do for roadsters and I believe at one time the Chevrolet Monza did not meet them so after it reach reasonably high speeds then the minimums were gone. At one time a "G" sized engine was not considered "high" horse power but with the advent of these new engine design and the use of turbos and fuel injections perhaps it's time to reevaluate wheelbases especially when it comes to MPH. The only mention of wheel base in the Modified catagory at all is the maximum 130" in Modified Sports.
When the rear engine modified roadster were brought back the first thing brought up was minimum wheelbase because of past problem and stability.
I'm glad our safety rules and the construction of the vehicle kept injuries to a minimum especially looking at the photos. As I read them our rules may not tell someone they can't build a Smart Car with turbo Hyabusa for power.
I look to others to chime in here and give there constructive opinions. .........JD
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JD, when the incident happened the first thing that came to mind for me was the very short wheelbase on the car. It conjured up images of the old Fuel Alterds at the drags. They were scary enough on asphalt. :-o Wayno
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its on youtube now :|
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Like a Blown, fuel, Anglia!! :-P
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=McJJeukIWSA
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I watched the video from the prospective of a racer and fabricator. I am like others I don't think the video serves any purpose but to learn.
This wreck makes the case for a collapsible steering column.
The second is it appears the passenger door came open and the door integrates with the side cage. Perhaps this is just on the passenger side and the driver's side is rigid welded. If not then the door opening would concern me in this type of design. Not criticizing the design, fab work or driving just seeking ideas and opinions to apply in the future.
Brian glad you are ok. All that matters is the Hansport did its most important job.
my 2 cents
BR
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Very glad that the driver is OK (at least as OK as could be hoped for) :cheers:
Watching the video with an eye towards "Root Cause Analysis" - what are the thoughts related to the fundamental root cause of this crash? It appears that the car was still accelerating at the point where it appears to start getting sideways.
From my purely amateurish perspective, does it seem like the car had different amounts of traction between the 2 front wheels, causing this "yaw" type motion?
With a rear-wheel drive vehicle, this kind of spin seems more understandable to me. For a FWD vehicle, I hope we can all learn something about the root cause of this crash.
Steve.
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Wow... that was a terrible wreck :-o
Somebody did a good job on the cage to withstand that!
I think I heard a slight change in revs before it got sideways. Still its front wheel drive. What really happened? Was the backend getting light from lift, Pretty good body shape though.
He was really hooking up and accelerating like hell. Has it been determined he came to a bad part of track '' the marbles''?
From the videos, we know it didn't catch air and roll, but just rolled over on itself.
We had to remove our front anti-roll bar on the 222 camaro but after looking at video would like to have one front and back.
JL222
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I have watched this video several times, it appears the left front tire either rolled off the rim or was going flat, it's to bad a video from the other side as well it would help.Just a thought but when it started look at the left tire.
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Yikes, I just watched the vid about 7 times. I'll leave the analysis to those with a keener eye. Just glad Brian G. is recooping.
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I have watched this video several times, it appears the left front tire either rolled off the rim or was going flat, it's to bad a video from the other side as well it would help.Just a thought but when it started look at the left tire.
I have watched it multiple times as well in large screen HD and have to agree, it looks like the left front of the car starts getting closer to the ground then all heck breaks loose.
I am so glad that Brian is recouping. That was a nasty set of rolls. :-o
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As many of you are aware of, I run the #343 2000 Insight in mostly GBGT presently at Loring and previously at ECTA NC. I also had concerns for the relatively short WB until I researched and found most Porsches, and other more exotic sports, including the Ferrari F40 are all under 100" WB and many are capable of exceeding 200 mph. They also turn and go up hills and down, and more comfortably than a sanctioned LSR vehicle. I say sanctioned as our cars are built for speed, in a straight line, Period.
We had minor stability issues at first , which had to do with spring rates, not anything endemic to the car.
Same deal with Aero, we also wondered if what applies at 55 mph is the same over 200. I can't give a definitive answer as we've not exceeded 177 (officially), but widely available Aero formulas give anybody wants to run in a class where this car fits the incentive, as it can go a lot faster with less HP than any other ICE production car ever built.
Another point to consider is the negative aspects of a long WB, as in a short WB might spin more readily but it won't roll as fast. Just sayin'......MVHOFWIW....
I hope this discussion stays constructive....
Bob Wanner
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That video is insane!!! The speed at which it was rolling, is crazy.
So glad to hear you are recovering well!
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Glad to hear that Brian is OK.
It looks to me as if the car was running up close to the cones and it started to drift into the mushy center.
The course was really bad all weekend, it didn't take a lot of horse power to tear up the surface.
J
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Glad to hear that Brian is OK.
It looks to me as if the car was running up close to the cones and it started to drift into the mushy center.
The course was really bad all weekend, it didn't take a lot of horse power to tear up the surface.
J
Good point. If the right front wheel got in the mush the left wheel would pull the car around if getting traction, depending on if they run a positraction unit or spool. Just a thought.
Tom G.
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Is there such a thing as a posi-traction or spool in a FWD car?
DW
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yes, quaife, wave track, any type of insert or lincoln locker will work, just like a diff on a rear wheel drive.
If he let out instead of throttled up when the butt stepped around, it will definitely spin faster.
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Is there such a thing as a posi-traction or spool in a FWD car?
DW
I'm not sure about posi or spool but I scrolled down from video and came across another video ''from another run'' which shows car and talks about 500 hp and Hondata traction control.
He really was able to put the petal to the metal. That's what we want :-D
JL222
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It sounds like Brian is in the throttle until it rolls the tire under, but he was probably out of it when it started to come around, the sound takes awhile to reach the video camera.
If he was still on the gas until it rolled, the sound would still be going as he was rolling.
JL222
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I've never driven on the salt, but having owned a high HP front wheel drive car, I
can attest that letting out of the throttle on slick surfaces definitely doesn't help
the a$$ end coming around... Even with a Quaife or other LSD, unloading the front
end by backing out will/should take weight off the back end and make it easier to
spin fast. I'm no physics professor (or student), but that seems feasible.
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The story has even made it International. UK Daily Mail had it up yesterday.
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CNN just showed the video on TV. So now its National news here.
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lifting in any way would be a mistake---if one has to lift --you better get in neutral first---
without some form of Stability Control which can apply the brakes independently to stop the spin ie lf/rr to stop rotation
one cannot defy the laws of physics if there is not enough tractive effort available. :-o
lifting just help it SNAP or go over the side of a mountain if one is going down hill on iffy traction
one cannot defy the laws of physics if there is not enough tractive effort available. :-o
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MSN homepage as well
http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/dramatic-footage-of-high-speed-car-crash/2udhf6023
Robin
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The car construction quality speaks volumes for itself. Hope you build another one and stay on the white stuff, heal fast :cheers:
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Also on ABC Good Morning America. Quite a long interview with Brian and video of crash 4 different times.
Video of Brian and car outside of shop explaining things. One of which he was in sixth gear but has no memory past third.
Also Doc says he has to lay off for a month :-D
JL222
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lifting in any way would be a mistake---if one has to lift --you better get in neutral first---
without some form of Stability Control which can apply the brakes independently to stop the spin ie lf/rr to stop rotation
one cannot defy the laws of physics if there is not enough tractive effort available. :-o
lifting just help it SNAP or go over the side of a mountain if one is going down hill on iffy traction
one cannot defy the laws of physics if there is not enough tractive effort available. :-o
Guess you need to give driving instructions to Top Fuel and Funny Car drivers who you think have been doing it all wrong for so many yrs :roll:
JL222
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JL222 --- just how many of those Top Fuel and funny cars are FRONT WHEEL DRIVE, do you think the same techniques apply-- before you start throwing rocks check to see if you are living in a glass house--- wake up man this was a FWD car. Talk to Racergo about his front wheel drive lakester and his adventures at B'Ville.
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The video has hit prime time here too, shown on our Australian national news
Good to see the current build and driver safety requirements work and Brian is relatively unscathed
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I have looked at this crash on a 23" screen frame by frame by frame and back end started to come around and the driver never turned into the slide. Could have been a steering or suspension failure or it caught him so fast he couldn't react, it was a fast 90 degree turn. You can see the right rear lift at the start of the spin. His alive and going to be sore for awhile, the car was well built. Hang in there Brian. :cheers:
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Video on regular Fresno ch 30. Every one sees this as spectacular, which it is. None of the TV stations ''that I've seen mention EL Mirage, just the Ca. desert.
I can only count a second on the video from the rear starting to come around to rolling so fast its a blur.
JL222
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I will say it. Of course the Langlos are ALWAYS right AND the experts. :roll: Wide tires would have solved it. :-D
Sheeot happened, it was a crappy course, get over it. God Bless Brian for riding out that perfect storm.
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That course was chewed up pretty good, I have a picture of me running 250mph while sitting up, spinning the rear tire, leaned a few degrees to the left while the front wheel is pointing a few degrees to the right..Brian was not only lucky his team built an awesome car.
Brian not only ran 200.9 on Saturday and set a record, got in the illustrious Dirty2's, his team also won the car and overall SCTA points championship however none of that was mentioned most of the times his pass was aired on TV. Also got to ride in a Helicopter as well.
Glad to hear he will be fine!
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KTLA channel 5 here in the L A area just showed brians crash. They did at least say the crash happened at ELMO. I recorded it to a dvd and watched it in slo-mo to see how many times the car rolled and i counted 15 and 1/2. Am very glad that brian walked away.
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Wow, 15.5. :-o
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Here is the slo-mo version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_-SWoGxWTs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_-SWoGxWTs)
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My lord that almost looks like a gymnastic floor exercise.
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Here is the slo-mo version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_-SWoGxWTs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_-SWoGxWTs)
I can not stand reading the comments on all the different media!
It does look like that Sparky.
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Here is the slo-mo version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_-SWoGxWTs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_-SWoGxWTs)
I can not stand reading the comments on all the different media!
It does look like that Sparky.
I agree about the comments. Who knew there were so many experts on the web. It is all mostly speculation. Many dumb comments from the Keyboard Cowboys and really not much to learn from it.
My crash was posted to youtube. We all try to learn from these type of things. I learned a bunch. Many, many others could learn from the after effects of my crash, but there is really no way to do that other than rule changes.
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We are still working to get a video of my crash in hopes of learning something about what happened. Bad course? Bad weight and balance? Sometimes it is just shit happens...
Good to see Brian survived that one...
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Wow, the force generated by the rotational rate is just unbelievable
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Amazing, so glad Brian is OK. Lots of talk about what caused the crash. IMO all high powered short wheebase cars will eventually spin out. The trick is to not get airborne. How to prevent that would be a useful conversation.
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There is a nice segment with an interview of Brian on CNN
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/11/22/newday-gillespie-race-car-crash-interview.cnn.html
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Great interview. A good spokesperson for all of us. Watch it.
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a spokesperson for stan ? :? good to see mr G doing fine and able to give an interview after that crash.
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Nice job Brian Gillespie, and congrats on the points championship. Dean
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:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Yes Stan, Brian did a great job communicating and representing the LSR family.
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A outstanding interview.....Brian did a great job.....Congrats on the championship
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Thanks for the kind words everyone. Doug (MacMillan) and I are still sussing out the possible causes. Also we are trying to get the in-car video recovered (both cameras were destroyed) to see what I was up to during the excitement. At some point I we'll talk about what we think was the problem but for right now I am just going to ride out the media frenzy and let things settle down.
brian g
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The video of BG's crash just hit the local (Salt Lake City) news:
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27806621&nid=1017&title=have-you-seen-this-200-mph-car-crash&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-5 (http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27806621&nid=1017&title=have-you-seen-this-200-mph-car-crash&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-5)
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As I remember a few years back a 1950 Chevrolet fastback had a very similar roll where the front wheel seemed to roll under like the insight. It happened at less than 125. Some blamed air over the car others a soft course.
What happened from the accident were needed rule changes on cages and seats for cars at any speeds which helped saved lives.
Many things are causes for LSR racing incidents usually more than one. Aero, wheelbase, weight, traction, etc.
The point is we need to learn from it especially today with the speeds being reached by all manor of vehicle. JD