This is from the most recent SCTA meeting. It shows some startling news - at least it's startling to me. Remember, by the way, that SCTA is a public non-profit organisation and therefore stuff like this is available to the public. I didn't "steal" it nor take it from unsubstantiated sources.
... Let's try to pull together to help, not keep secrets and hide from the truth.
desotoman what part of the SCTA is a public non-profit organisation and therefore stuff like this is available to the public do you not understand.
Tom, SCTA is a non-profit, right? And as such their reports (like this) are in the public domain. It isn't secret. As to why I've posted it -- as land speed racers that participate we need to know the financial condition of the sanctioning organisation under whom we race. And if that group is not being completely self-funded for a few years -- it is important to all of us to know the status so that maybe we can at least know what's going on -- and maybe to be able to help in some way to keep things going well and strongly. Take another look at the SpeedWeek survey, keeping the financial statement in mind, and see if there is some way that your input can help make the SCTA financially stable and strong again.
Posting this IS good for land speed racing -- and NOT politically motivated. I'm not sure how it could be - since it is a "picture" of the past few years as they happened. Let's try to pull together to help, not keep secrets and hide from the truth.
... Let's try to pull together to help, not keep secrets and hide from the truth.
Jon as has been stated above what you posted isn't the whole story and none of this is kept as a secret. If one joins a club and becomes a SCTA member you get copies of the minutes of the meetings with the complete transcript.
If one really wants to be involved and help then join a club and be a participant. It is these clubs and their members that have kept this going for over 60 years now. They seem to of developed a system that works,
Sum
Like I have noted in the past, as I was told by a SCTA/BNI "official" "I don't want anything discussed here to appear in the Landracing.com".......Proofs my point......................
This is from the most recent SCTA meeting. It shows some startling news - at least it's startling to me. Remember, by the way, that SCTA is a public non-profit organisation and therefore stuff like this is available to the public. I didn't "steal" it nor take it from unsubstantiated sources.
SSS,
Where did you get this and why are you posting this here? If you are not an SCTA member it is non of your business. I know it is not possible for John Q Public to get the SCTA minutes from only a couple of weeks ago. I don't understand your logic as this is not good for Landspeedracing, period. I am asking you nicely to take this down immediately. It is really beyond me why you have done this. Was this politically motivated?
Tom G.
As a member of both SCTA-BNI for over half of my Life, I believe that this report needs to be here in full content. Not in Excerpts as chosen by Slim Or his unnamed sources. This an incomplete look at the whole picture, It doesn't have any thing about the BNI membership dues, Nor does it account for the SCTA and or BNI concessions. We can all take Excerpts from any conversation or written material and spin it in what ever way we want..................It's call reality TV.......
Or a racing blog after the racing season when idle hands get bored. If you what the real information and the whole information contact Your BNI Chairman.
desotoman what part of the SCTA is a public non-profit organisation and therefore stuff like this is available to the public do you not understand.
Well I do understand about non profits being available to the public, and it is my understanding that reports are filed quarterly, or yearly, and October is not the end of a quarter. But this was taken off the minutes of the last meeting that was October 25, 2013 and the minutes were not released from Scott Andrews until October 29, 2013, last time I looked today is only November 3, 2013, so It is impossible for Jon to have gotten these numbers by contacting the non profit agency especially on a weekend. Government just does not work that fast, and don't require that you submit meeting minutes.... Let's try to pull together to help, not keep secrets and hide from the truth.
Jon as has been stated above what you posted isn't the whole story and none of this is kept as a secret. If one joins a club and becomes a SCTA member you get copies of the minutes of the meetings with the complete transcript.
If one really wants to be involved and help then join a club and be a participant. It is these clubs and their members that have kept this going for over 60 years now. They seem to of developed a system that works,
Sum
I have to agree with Tom on this-SCTA business is for SCTA members, and should not be posted here without a release from the SCTA.
Sumner has it right. If a person is concerned, and wants to be part of the solution, join a club and participate!
For 20 years my job for Southeast Toyota Distributors was to help turn around failing car dealerships. A financial statement and balance sheet have many sections. Any one section can tell a pretty compelling story out of context of the whole document... but the net profit/loss at the very bottom with the double underline tells the whole story. A good decision on bad numbers can have the same results as bad decision.
What I took away from this is: I want SCTA/BNI to live forever. I live on the East coast and never thought about joining a club because going to a meeting West coast is not practical. I don't believe in just signing up and riding on other people's work. How does a guy on the East Coast join a club and do his part?
BR
... want SCTA/BNI to live forever. I live on the East coast and never thought about joining a club because going to a meeting West coast is not practical. I don't believe in just signing up and riding on other people's work. How does a guy on the East Coast join a club and do his part? BR
....I'm a member of the Road Runners, yet I live in Colorado, 1200 miles from the cub. I receive the club minutes every month, can vote on issues, and am kept informed of the SCTA happenings.
I do have to perform club duties once a year at El Mirage,but I consider that a pretty good deal!
So, it can be done, if you're serious about it.
JOIN BEFORE SPEED WEEK AND YOUR MEMBERSHIP WILL INCLUDE: A BNI membership card,
Bonneville Nationals Speed Week entry pin, embroidered patch, Bonneville National Speed Week poster, SCTA
Rules and Records book, Bonneville Nationals Speed Week program, BNI decal and 4 issues of the Straightaway
News. (These items will be shipped as they become available. Some items may ship separately.)
Sounds like I need to wave a dead chicken over my head and wear the secret underwear to get the SCTA financials.
There is no reason why this shouldn't be public knowledge. I never saw SCTA financials in the years I was a member.
The income and expenditures should be open knowledge. What is spent and who benefits is vital information for all non profits....
This is from the most recent SCTA meeting. It shows some startling news - at least it's startling to me. Remember, by the way, that SCTA is a public non-profit organisation and therefore stuff like this is available to the public. I didn't "steal" it nor take it from unsubstantiated sources.
SCTA: Excerpts from Friday night’s SCTA-BNI Board and Reps Meeting:
Mike Manghelli passed out a financial document showing two pages back-to back income and expenses separated into two types. When the numbers are considered together both membership and racing incomes and expenses they total up to the following losses to the SCTA in total (this excluded BNI subsidies)
2010 –loss $46,500.00
2011 –loss $69,000.00
2012 – loss $55,000.00
These numbers are confirmed by Delia Riley.
Roy Creel did some quick accounting and he came up with a cost to the SCTA of $158.00 per vehicle to race and the SCTA is currently charging $65.00 to the entrant.
BNI: Excerpts from Friday night’s SCTA-BNI Board and Reps Meeting:
This accounting of the year to date shows income of $689,652.17 and expenses of $716,365.96 leaving a negative balance of -$26,713.79. Russ Eyres also included a report dated 08/01/2013 through 10/25/203 as a separate item. This captures most of the activity during Speed Week. This report shows an income of $282,690.89 and expenses of $518,898.06 creating a substantial negative balance of -$236,207.20.
Also included in this report were comparisons from 2010, 2011 and 2012. The report was very revealing showing the following results:
2010 Income $752,770.69 Expenses $795,740.64 Balance -$42,969.95
2011 Income $721,739.07 Expenses $859,203.89 Balance -$137,464.82
2012 Income $936,626.85 Expenses $950,963.06 Balance -$14,336.25
The following is not specifically in the minutes but if the numbers that are listed in the SCTA treasurers report and the BNI treasurers report are considered together this are the total losses for the SCTA-BNI:
2010: Loss -$89,469.95
2011: Loss -$206,464.82
2012: Loss -$69,336.25
Total Loss $365,271.02
And 2013 is not looking good
...
Is it just me or what :? Income for year to date 689,652.17
- Income from speedweek 282,691.28
= 406,961.28 where did this income come from :?
And $518,898 expense for speedweek with income of 282,691 :?
An independent Audit is needed of all the books for the last 3yrs.
JL222
...
Is it just me or what :? Income for year to date 689,652.17
- Income from speedweek 282,691.28
= 406,961.28 where did this income come from :?
And $518,898 expense for speedweek with income of 282,691 :?
An independent Audit is needed of all the books for the last 3yrs.
JL222
Have you read the whole thread? As has been mentioned the above figures were pull out of a complete report and do not include a number if items that were in the whole report. If you read the complete report you would have a very different picture.
And I don't have my e-mails of the minutes and wouldn't post them if I did but if I recall money in the bank was in the details and BNI members are not SCTA members so why should they be sent SCTA related business? Come on guys even if you had all of the figures would you actually go and do something?
The simple answer is join a club, simple as that,
Sum
Well, if its any help JL222 I bought a couple of programs at SpeedWeek. That account for $20 of the income. Now if we can just get everyone who bought things at SpeedWeek to chime in here I'm sure it can all be sorted. If an independent audit is proposed and passed who will pay for it? You? Maybe you know some auditors who will work for free?
Let's build the scaffolding and get on with it!
No one forces anyone to join BNI. They do it by choice. They can have a voice by boycotting the events. They can organize their own events. It's easy to put on an international event with one paid employee (yes, there's per-diem and expenses for lots of people).
SCTA club presidents and club reps go to monthly meetings and give their members the scoop. Most of the attendees are long-time members of the organization. There have been ongoing measures to contain expenses the last few years.
Take a look at SpeedWeek -- how many, including SCTA members, don't think it's a bargain for what you get?
But, what the h-ell, let's string them up! Even if the info is incomplete. Let's be outraged! H-ell no, there were no politics involved in posting this! Light the torches and
Stan Back!
BNI members are not SCTA members so why should they be sent SCTA related business?
The BNI is a separate entity under SCTA board control with their own bylaws and subordinate board. The BNI is charged with the responsibility of planning and organizing the Bonneville Salt Flat events and coordinating all vendors and media. The SCTA actually controls the Speed Week event under their rules and bylaws.
The SCTA board appoints the BNI officers, who must also be SCTA board members. All decisions made by the BNI officers are done by consensus. The BNI does not make rules or policy; this is all done by the SCTA board. To become a member of the BNI, you simply purchase a yearly membership. This membership gives you the right to participate in any of the Bonneville Salt Flat events sanctioned by the SCTA. The SCTA reserves the right to revoke membership to the BNI at any time.
Why are BNI members excluded, they are the ones that have paid for El Mirage for years and the main income for SCTA :?
And the big SECRET for years is HOW MUCH MONEY IS IN THE BANK and other investments.
Also that's a very undetailed profit and loss statement lacking the exact expenses.
If SCTA HAS NOTHING TO HIDE at least give the above info to SCTA members.
Desotoman...have you ever known the above info.
If nobody knows the total HOW WOULD YOU KNOW SOME IS MISSING :?
TIME FOR AN INDEPENDEND AUDIT.
Yeah, hope financial info doesn't appear on Land Racing.com :roll:
JL222
Thanks Stan,
But, what the h-ell, let's string them up! Even if the info is incomplete. Let's be outraged! H-ell no, there were no politics involved in posting this! Light the torches and
Stan Back!
WOW! leave you guys alone for a couple of days and ...
I used to wonder what happened to all that BNI money... but if you just pay a little attention at SpeedWeek and see Jim and all the other starters standing in the sun all day you got to think... I sure hope they are giving them dinner, a comfy hotel room with cold air and a cold beer. Now multiply that by course stewards, the hundreds of folks that make the event happen, inspectors, sales and registration... the list could go on forever. They are volunteers and they give their time so we can race. I hope they keep doing that, and I hope they are compensated enough to keep them doing for us.
After 35 years of racing Bonneville I don't care a bit, every penny they spend allows me to do something I really enjoy doing.
Yes it used to bother me that BNI members have no say in class rules... but that won't stop me from racing and playing by their rules.
The data presented would make you worry that the organization is going broke... I suspect that the entire picture shows a financially healthy, well run organization.
Political motivation? Maybe, but since the SCTA members have access to see the big picture and decide for themselves does it really matter what is posted here...
OK I'll quit rambling... One Run... remember to Stan Back
In addition to hotel room they also get meal tickets, breakfast, lunch, whenever at the food vendor.
What in hell do you think they spent $518,819 on :?
Sum...unpaid volunteers :? Your credibility gap is outstanding. Their paid by the hr. and a lot of them run cars..........
JL222
Oh, to remember the 70's and 80's. One course, drilling hundreds of holes in the salt before the entrants came with my own generator and drill, inspecting cars on the the airport and at the salt. No covers for the inspectors, 2 runs on the same morning for a record and no impounds; you went to your pit after qualifing and were in line at 7:00AM. No food on the salt but what you brought including work days setting up pits, the course, and laying wire. No rooms for the workers (get your own) or course stewards. Course stewards got a lunch brought to them and made out of the back of a station wagon. Speeds for the day posted on the Werstern Cafe and the Stateline. No Per Diem. And the most important thing:
$100.00 entry fee for the week
Well, yes. There is per diem. And a free hamburger once a day. Five hour minimum -- most usually work 10 to 12. Figures out to be a lot less than minimum wage. I work 6 days and don't cover my gas bill to get there and back. Or eat something more than the hamburger. Or get there and back without anything when cancelled. But I'm reliable. That's why I quit my day job -- I'm gonna get rich off the SCTA!
I'm gonna get rich off the SCTA!
This is from the most recent SCTA meeting. It shows some startling news - at least it's startling to me. Remember, by the way, that SCTA is a public non-profit organisation and therefore stuff like this is available to the public. I didn't "steal" it nor take it from unsubstantiated sources.
SCTA: Excerpts from Friday night’s SCTA-BNI Board and Reps Meeting:
Mike Manghelli passed out a financial document showing two pages back-to back income and expenses separated into two types. When the numbers are considered together both membership and racing incomes and expenses they total up to the following losses to the SCTA in total (this excluded BNI subsidies)
2010 –loss $46,500.00
2011 –loss $69,000.00
2012 – loss $55,000.00
These numbers are confirmed by Delia Riley.
Roy Creel did some quick accounting and he came up with a cost to the SCTA of $158.00 per vehicle to race and the SCTA is currently charging $65.00 to the entrant.
BNI: Excerpts from Friday night’s SCTA-BNI Board and Reps Meeting:
This accounting of the year to date shows income of $689,652.17 and expenses of $716,365.96 leaving a negative balance of -$26,713.79. Russ Eyres also included a report dated 08/01/2013 through 10/25/203 as a separate item. This captures most of the activity during Speed Week. This report shows an income of $282,690.89 and expenses of $518,898.06 creating a substantial negative balance of -$236,207.20.
Also included in this report were comparisons from 2010, 2011 and 2012. The report was very revealing showing the following results:
2010 Income $752,770.69 Expenses $795,740.64 Balance -$42,969.95
2011 Income $721,739.07 Expenses $859,203.89 Balance -$137,464.82
2012 Income $936,626.85 Expenses $950,963.06 Balance -$14,336.25
The following is not specifically in the minutes but if the numbers that are listed in the SCTA treasurers report and the BNI treasurers report are considered together this are the total losses for the SCTA-BNI:
2010: Loss -$89,469.95
2011: Loss -$206,464.82
2012: Loss -$69,336.25
Total Loss $365,271.02
And 2013 is not looking good
In addition to hotel room they also get meal tickets, breakfast, lunch, whenever at the food vendor.
What in hell do you think they spent $518,819 on :?
If the Enola Gay is flipping a half million dollars worth of burgers and breakfast burritos over ten days, that’s where I’d start an audit.
Then we could move on to that hourly wage paystub your team member has, if he's willing to share it . . . He did report the income on his taxes, correct?
jl, I really think you're tilting at windmills on this one. It's important that the organization(s) stay solvent, but if they're putting together a program of this magnitude for less that $1 M, that's shockingly economical.
This is from the most recent SCTA meeting. It shows some startling news - at least it's startling to me. Remember, by the way, that SCTA is a public non-profit organisation and therefore stuff like this is available to the public. I didn't "steal" it nor take it from unsubstantiated sources.
SCTA: Excerpts from Friday night’s SCTA-BNI Board and Reps Meeting:
Mike Manghelli passed out a financial document showing two pages back-to back income and expenses separated into two types. When the numbers are considered together both membership and racing incomes and expenses they total up to the following losses to the SCTA in total (this excluded BNI subsidies)
2010 –loss $46,500.00
2011 –loss $69,000.00
2012 – loss $55,000.00
These numbers are confirmed by Delia Riley.
Roy Creel did some quick accounting and he came up with a cost to the SCTA of $158.00 per vehicle to race and the SCTA is currently charging $65.00 to the entrant.
BNI: Excerpts from Friday night’s SCTA-BNI Board and Reps Meeting:
This accounting of the year to date shows income of $689,652.17 and expenses of $716,365.96 leaving a negative balance of -$26,713.79. Russ Eyres also included a report dated 08/01/2013 through 10/25/203 as a separate item. This captures most of the activity during Speed Week. This report shows an income of $282,690.89 and expenses of $518,898.06 creating a substantial negative balance of -$236,207.20.
Also included in this report were comparisons from 2010, 2011 and 2012. The report was very revealing showing the following results:
2010 Income $752,770.69 Expenses $795,740.64 Balance -$42,969.95
2011 Income $721,739.07 Expenses $859,203.89 Balance -$137,464.82
2012 Income $936,626.85 Expenses $950,963.06 Balance -$14,336.25
The following is not specifically in the minutes but if the numbers that are listed in the SCTA treasurers report and the BNI treasurers report are considered together this are the total losses for the SCTA-BNI:
2010: Loss -$89,469.95
2011: Loss -$206,464.82
2012: Loss -$69,336.25
Total Loss $365,271.02
And 2013 is not looking good
THANK YOU Slim... It's startling to me also and I can't figure out why most of the members aren't.
With approximately 500 entries at bville for $400 =$200,000 + sales income ect, say 100 entries at El Mirage at $65=6500 X6 = $39,000 + sales and dues ect. TOTAL approximately $239,000 + sales ect.
With an income of $936,626.85 a professional audit is needed every year. MISTAKES can be made, TRUST BUT NOT BLIND TRUST.
Even if one had a financial statement showing income and expences IT WOULD BE WORTHLESS WITH OUT A COPY OF THE BILLS THAT WERE PAID.
We have a 5000 sq ft 7 unit office building professionaly managed we find mistakes all the time. Sometimes the renters haven't paid their rent. we're the auditors ''well Linda is'' and mistakes happen a lot and the income is not a 10th of SCTA'S
In our Monthly expense statement we get a copy of bills to compare against checks written.
Other wise it's blind thrust.
JL222
SCTA: Excerpts from Friday night’s SCTA-BNI Board and Reps Meeting:
BNI: Excerpts from Friday night’s SCTA-BNI Board and Reps Meeting:
Tom Says:
do you know for a fact it has not been tampered with? Once again everyone is assuming everything posted is accurate.
Yes I do, I see it's a cut and paste from the Meeting Minutes, and you do also...
away from innuendo and back to facts... and the subject at hand; which I see is getting the SCTA/BNI Profitable
and encouraging new and young people to participate and expand the consumer base creating more revenue.
Well, yes. There is per diem. And a free hamburger once a day. Five hour minimum -- most usually work 10 to 12. Figures out to be a lot less than minimum wage. I work 6 days and don't cover my gas bill to get there and back. Or eat something more than the hamburger. Or get there and back without anything when cancelled. But I'm reliable. That's why I quit my day job -- I'm gonna get rich off the SCTA!
Stan, didn't you pay attention when they said don't quit your day job.... :roll:
Try to not squander your new found fortune on box wine... :cheers:
Well, yes. There is per diem. And a free hamburger once a day. Five hour minimum -- most usually work 10 to 12. Figures out to be a lot less than minimum wage. I work 6 days and don't cover my gas bill to get there and back. Or eat something more than the hamburger. Or get there and back without anything when cancelled. But I'm reliable. That's why I quit my day job -- I'm gonna get rich off the SCTA!
We work on the salt because we love Bonneville, not to get paid, not to get a free lunch. Bonneville could not happen without the help from people that come to work the meet that's a fact! yes I care about the financials, so I (we) can keep racing. for me Iam there from 630am to 7 pm or untill the last car go's down the course ya the 60 bucks a day is nice but its no paid vacation but its mine. bla bla bla :roll: