Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: azgearhed on October 20, 2013, 12:47:59 PM
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I have a Kirky full seat in a gas coupe. It is fully upholstered with a 270 degree separate helmet restraint component. I want to remove the upholstery from the bottom portion of the seat to make lap belts easier to use. I am going to leave the covering of the upper seat (helmet) in place. The rule book in 3.D.1 says that a seat shall have "...a maximum of 1" padding". Is it ok to run the lower portion seat in bare aluminum? The seat has torso/rib cage padding that is separate from the cover and is glued on to the seat wings that provides rib cage padding.
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Yes, no padding required at all if you choose.
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The one thing I might point out - and this I learned from experience - is that if your exhaust is running under your seat and is tucked in close to the bottom of the car, you might want to put some insulation between the seat and the floorboard.
My tucus got a tad warm by the three . . .
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I agree with the insulation under the seat.
But in Chris's case I have it on good authority that the warm tucus was from jumping up and down in the seat screaming; "Faster, dammit, faster!"
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No exhaust under the car, but if you stand too close to the front tires in the lanes, your ankles may get warm
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Though not directly related to your question, the helmet padding is different. (rule book says "a padded headrest shall be installed to prevent whiplash....." In contrast, roll cage in the vicinity of the of the drivers helmet shall be SFI rated. Rules 3.B.2 and 3.C. The rule book does NOT say the headrest shall be SFI rated, only that it must be padded. The inspectors say (see the opening paragraph of rule 1.A) that "our interpretation is.....The head rest padding must be SFI rated." I do not know if the side padding in a Kirkey or other full containment seat is SFI rated but if it is considered part of the cage somehow it will need to be. The back part of that support which represents the "headrest" will need to be SFI according to this interpretation of the rule. And I asked Steve Davies about it when I was told to change my padding to SFI rated stuff and the answer was "Our interpretation is....." One of those things where rule book clarification would be nice. I guess I should have requested such. My bad.
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This reminds me of some of the rules on the water here in Montana. If you float on the Yellowstone River with an old car innertube. If you float while sitting in the tube it becomes a "conveyance" and you must have a life jacket and it has to have a registration tag. If you float in the water and hold on to it then it is a "floatation device" and you are OK. Who makes this stuff up?
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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My take is that if you start reciting the rule back at the tech inspector making sure you included all the amendments and dot the Is and cross the Ts you'll rattle him. Think about it, the guy is not a racer so he's there because he loves the sport and he's an "official". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you should abuse the guy but think about this. He has to project his power and you only get to run via his Say So. If you crash big enough 1" padding is not going to make a difference in anyone's language. It's timing, whether it's your time or not!.
On the tucus subject. It's not the tucus you should be worried about. It's huge heatsink IMO. The thing you should be really worried about is that part of the anatomy that decides on whether you get prostrate cancer or not. Frightening, but I don't know how else to put it. Roasted Chestnuts??? No harm intended or implied. The scrutineers are volunteers and have your safety at heart. :-D I'm wearing a flak jacket and Kevlar helmet so bring it.
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Only 1 major flaw in your thinking.... maybe 2... the officials are racers... either past or active... I doubt you will ever rattle one of them quoting the book
Padding... during the crash will crush with impacts and therefore loosen your seatbelts... your belts will stretch a lot in a crash... trust me on that one... the hard sfi padding is supposed to crush and absorb some of the blow, but it does not spring right back. I would not sit on padding other than the thickness of the firesuit. If you are feeling the heat of something under the floor, consider a better suit.
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Stainless...... :cheers:
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My seat padding consists of my -20 suit. :wink: Wayno
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Me Too, Stainless..... :cheers:
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likewise :-D
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A few years ago at SW a lakester went thru inspection and was on a run later in the day, got crossed up and flipped. During re-inspection of the vehicle we found a piece of 4" foam rubber in the car. The crew admitted adding it after Insp. The driver got loose in the car due to the padding. He had several broken bones because he was loose. It was also not fire proof but could have added to the problem if a fire had occured.
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We were just discussing the padding the other night on a full containment seat.. we're thinkin that just a few chucks of leather stitched together would act as both a good softish pad and not burn ur booty..
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There's two sides to that issue. I bow to Stainless through his hard experience, but when you do make hard impact you want to avoid contacting hard surfaces too.
Is belt stretching designed in? The first impact may or may not be the hardest one when there are several.
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As a passenger in the 1975 Baja 1000 I had plenty of time to experiment with belt tension . Tight is much better and foam padding is like slack belts .
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I have been shopping for seats myself, new and used.
The LSR is new to me, I have been driving (and a bit of racing) off road for many years and used the beard suspension seats. Looking at Butler and Kirkey. I am starting off slow (130 club at WOS) and go up from there.
I am also thinking the same what stainless stated, but for now I only have a 3 layer fire suite. So a bit more padding might be nice to the backside on a aluminum seat. I was thinking cotton layers would work for padding.
Mike
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I have been shopping for seats myself, new and used.
The LSR is new to me, I have been driving (and a bit of racing) off road for many years and used the beard suspension seats. Looking at Butler and Kirkey. I am starting off slow (130 club at WOS) and go up from there.
I am also thinking the same what stainless stated, but for now I only have a 3 layer fire suite. So a bit more padding might be nice to the backside on a aluminum seat. I was thinking cotton layers would work for padding.
Mike
Put the padding money into a -20 firesuit now and then you will have the padding and and be able to drive any car at any speed in the future,
Sum
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If the pressure points on hard flat panels are a problem, it doesn't take much work to contour them a little. Eliminates the pressure points and makes them feel a lot softer.
Ron
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In the 130 and 160 Clubs you can have all the padding you want, you can sit on normal car seats. LSR is a different set of rules. If you are building for LSR on the salt, do not pad your seat... it is not allowed unless it is SFI rated padding. Now with that said there are cars with poured form fit seats, but I think the poured foam is SFI rated. Do a search and you will find that discussed in a couple of threads. Remember you are not in it for very long... a salt run will have you in the car for a total of 20 minutes or less... includes suit up and in 3 cars back. Most runs last a couple of minutes start to finish.
Want to be comfortable or safe :?
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" If you are building for LSR on the salt, do not pad your seat... it is not allowed unless it is SFI rated padding. Now with that said there are cars with poured form fit seats, but I think the poured foam is SFI rated. "
Is this one of those the rule book says one thing and the inspectors say "our interpretation is" something else deals? 3.D.1 only says max of 1" padding. Having it fire proof is nice but all the flat or curved SFI padding I have seen, I'd just as soon sit on the metal. :roll:
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Jack, just read it... again... you are right, it says 1 inch pad is allowed... and yes we had a old "naugahyde pad" the thickness a 2 layers of material that was scrutinized, discussed and allowed.... Pork Pie wanted something to make the aluminum less slick.
Of course most of the team has the benefit of gravity helping keep us in place while being belted in... :roll:
I stick with the firesuit padding is enough... you don't want to start with an extra inch of belt loosening...
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The sun can heat up a aluminum seat pretty quick. A thin pad made from light colored outdoor carpet is what I use. It does not compress and is a lot cooler if sun is on it.
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Stainless,
not the slick aluminum let me asked for something...
I'm so small that I was simple too low for the seatbelt...
for safety I wouldn't have a problem to run without and lying directly on the aluminum....the dots you get anyway....
Jack, just read it... again... you are right, it says 1 inch pad is allowed... and yes we had a old "naugahyde pad" the thickness a 2 layers of material that was scrutinized, discussed and allowed.... Pork Pie wanted something to make the aluminum less slick.
Of course most of the team has the benefit of gravity helping keep us in place while being belted in... :roll:
I stick with the firesuit padding is enough... you don't want to start with an extra inch of belt loosening...
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I believe the word "interpretation" is being phased out. The rule book is doing it's best to stop different rules for different inspectors. This is great. Under what Glen said if anything is found after inspection you may look at being banned for life let alone possibly causing injury to your self.
Always build to exceed when possible. The SFI padding is available along with Nomex/fireproof cloth....