Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Hooley on January 21, 2013, 08:35:03 PM
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Well it didn't seem fitting to post 2013 changes to the car under 2006 changes,so I'll post the changes here for the 2013 season.
The planned changes are a AA motor. a 572 ci BB Dart block and heads.
Twin turbos and ice/air inter coolers.
We are planning to use a blow through carb.
Move the fuel, water, ice water tanks around.
Stretch the front 24 inches.
A rendering of what it might look like.
More to come.
Hooley
This is a link to the previous thread. http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,1578.0.html
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Hooley, I can't wait to see this thing! I'm going to have to pop into John K's, when he gets the front end stuff to modify!
Gonna be killer looking! Good :cheers: luck!
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Thanks Buddy,
I don't know how you get every thing done that you have going on.
It is fun watching your cutting edge newstalga flat motor. Not to mention that BAD-Acura sound that it makes.
Hooley
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Thanks Hooley! Now if we could just figure out how to be as fast as YOU!
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We haven't been writing very much lately but we have been busy. The 2 ft. frame streech is done and a mock up motor is in. The turbos , waste gates and inter coolers came in. Sum and Ruth came by last week-end for a working week-end. There were a lot of hours with few brakes. We got a lot of planning done and mounted the coolers and turbos. Now I just have to fill in the blanks. The headers I built earler won't work so I'll build some more that will.
The engine block and heads are ready to start building. I want to get a little futher on the mock up before I put the engine together.
I will try to post some pictures.
Hooley
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Hooley, looking good and I can't wait to see it run.
By the way, thanks for the "Lucky Horseshoe" you sent me before the W.F.'s. I think I mounted it wrong.............. which leads to a pretty funny story about it and my spin................ See you soon, Bob
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Yea, Blame it on the Lucky Horse Shoe. It may be mounted in the wrong place. You might have to move it a round to different places.
Did you get more than one run in ?
Hooley
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The one I saw brought new meaning to the words "chase vehicle".
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Hooley:
The new Stude looks great. Can't wait to see it in person.
Bill
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Hooley, here is the story. While we were getting the car ready for tech, I remembered the horseshoe and duct taped it to the outside windshield dead center of the steering wheel but above my line of sight and figured I would take it off before I ran.
I not only teched it in, but made two or three turn outs (near the two) trying to find the tune up, and then spun the car on the next pass.
Following the spin, I took it back to tech and then to my pit to repair the damage so I could run Saturday morning.
It was after my return to the pits on Friday that I noticed the damn horseshoe was still ductaped on the outer windshield.
Granted, it wouldn't have been funny if it had flown off and someone later ran over it but all I can say is that's why I buy only the Best Duct Tape: Nashua 357!
My only full pass was Saturday morning where I broke the motor and lost the clutch at the Four (229 mph) and managed to take out the Five mile clocks.
Another damn chapter in my book.
I may not make it to Speedweek this year, as I may have broken the Dart Big M Block, and if I did, thats about a ten grand hit for the short block. .................... Bob
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Mastercard and JB Weld will fix anything.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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I wonder if they sell it in a 5 gallon pail? :-P Bob
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Bob, I learned the hard way that h beam rods do less damage than I beams to the block :roll:
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BOB,
The picture I have in my head of the Horse shoe taped to the out side of the windshield has me rolling in the floor .
I am at a loss of words. Do you think the horse shoe doesn't work all the time? And maybe should be left on the tool box or something.
[Dodge is a 4 letter word?]
Sparky, I was just looking at rods for the 572 motor.
Bill, The picture is just a rendering right now but should be close to what it will look like when done.
Hooley
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Hooley, I like that rendering! I can't wait to see you run! Is Sam gonna be with you?
Too bad we can't get John K to reschedule his trip, so that he could be there!
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Hooley
Looking great see you on the salt. :cheers:
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BOB,
The picture I have in my head of the Horse shoe taped to the out side of the windshield has me rolling in the floor .
I am at a loss of words. Do you think the horse shoe doesn't work all the time? And maybe should be left on the tool box or something.
Sparky, I was just looking at rods for the 572 motor.
Hooley
Hooley, don't look for rods like One Run has... those were destroyed like I've never seen before. Seemed to be properly torqued bolts.
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Stainless, thanks for posting the pictures for me.
By the way sportsfans, those pieces of two top of the line Carrillo's with forced EDM pin oiling and 260,000# Carr/SPS bolts ($2,300 a set).
Also shown is one half of my #2 intake roller lifter roller which all came out of the oil pan.
The bottom of #1 and #2 cylinder barrells are missing about 3/4 of a inch and thats what may be of the biggest concern. We are preparing to mag the block to see if we can save it.
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Bob, when you figure out how to keep the rods from turning black I think they'll stay in the block better. :wink:
Do you prime your engine every morning before start up? Sometimes the oil will siphon from the tank through the pump into the pan. When you start the engine the tank is empty or close to empty before the pump can send the oil back to the tank and the result is....
Other issues like oil type and clearances too but hard to tell unless your there.
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Buddy,
The last I heard from Sam was he probably wouldn't be at Speed Week. You know how that goes as you get closer to time to go. It wouldn't surprised me to seem him there.
John has missed their wedding anniversary every time we went to Bonneville and his wife was very understanding. I don't know if that has any thing to do with it. He will be missed by all.
Sumner is planning on being there.
I ordered some engine parts and turbo parts today. Working on the outer frame that goes out next to the body every day.
Later,
Hooley
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Hey Hooley
Glad you are making the progress to get the 974 car ready for speedweek.
Looks like it will be a wild ride. Cliff and I are still working away at ours. We won't have it ready for speed week this year. If all goes well we might make Willington in the fall. It's all fun Don
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Don and Cliff I was hoping you could make Speed Week this year. But Wilmington would be good too.
Lets keep plugin along.
Stainless /Bob The carnage from that motor is more than I have ever seen.
Hooley
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Funny thing- i miss my anniversary everytime I go to Bonneville, too!
I'll be by John's next month, and I'm hoping to see his work on your car then.
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Funny thing- i miss my anniversary everytime I go to Bonneville, too!
Same here. Need to order some flowers ahead of time this year since I forgot to call last season!
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Can't miss mine, The wife is the driver :-D
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Hooley
We will be there but not the car. My daughter is getting married. With that expense long with the car I had to slow down. Got to keep peace at home. We still are hard at it with the build. It's still fun. We have hooked up with some racers from our area that have been a great help. Good luck and keep up the work. Don
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I spend my birthday at Speed Week and World of Speed is my Grandson's birthday [Yes I was on the Salt when he was born in M'pls.]. I guess it's called priorities. Maybe someday he'll spend his birthday with me on the Salt.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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I have been busy putting the turbos on. Sum mounted the inter-coolers when he came by. I built a set of headers the last couple of weeks. I just finished them up tonight and that included the waste gates. I'll try to post some pictures.
Some of the intake piping is laid out . I will try to finish that up soon.
So little time and so much to do,
Hooley
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:cheers: Way to go Hooleymon!!!!
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Hooley your on page 3 let me help you out here. Are we looking at maybe the first Studebaker to 300mph ???????????
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drs88,
I have been gonna call you but have lost your number. PM your number if you would. Or E-mail Hhardheaded@sbcglobal.net
I don't think 300 is on the table but would like to go faster. Sumner is going to drive this year. while doing his license passes he will get a feel for the new arrangement and data on the engine. By the time he is ready to go fast we should have the tune right. I have started the engine assembly but are waiting on pistons and cam.
Please help, I don't even know what page 3 is. After posting, I know what page 3 is. Thanks for the help
Back to the shop,
Hooley
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I E-mailed it. Car is looking good. I am still going hard on the Roadster. Work has killed me this year with traveling but I am still trying for Speedweek. Let just say I didn't pre enter it but if I make it what's another $200.00
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Donnie....What about the Cavalier? I really enjoyed our chat last year.....took a bit to work the `Bird with your Dad, but it all came out O.K.....How is Jim doing? Hope to see you in August.....
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Hooley, I'm glad you're making such great progress!
I'm looking forward to seeing you on the salt, and meeting Sumner!
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I've added some more pages to Hooley's build for this year.....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html
He is way ahead of me in that he has a lot more work finished vs. what I have documented so far so keep checking the link above for updates and we will keep posting here.
Here are a couple teasers...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Intercoolers-10.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/turbo%20mounts-3.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/carb%20hat-22.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Header--6.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/turbine-exhaust-2.jpg)
The additional Innovate data logging components have been ordered from DIYAutotune and hopefully we will be able to hook most of that up when I see Hooley in a couple weeks. We will be data logging about 16 channels if all of that works out.
Hooley has the framework for the vertical stabilizers for the wing done and a wing mounted to them. He has also done a lot of work to the back of the car and completed almost all of the turbo plumbing to the intercoolers and from them to the hat on the carb and much more,
Sum
Sumner's Web Pages (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/sumnerindex.html)
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Sumner, I just went through everything on your website.
It looks like you guys are making even more progress than I had imagined. It's looking great.
Good luck!
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Sumner, I just went through everything on your website.
It looks like you guys are making even more progress than I had imagined. It's looking great.
Good luck!
Thanks, but I don't know about "you guys" :wink:. I was there for just a couple days so it has been all Hooley.
Ruth and I will be leaving Florida soon after working a couple months on our boat here. Then we will stop at Hooley's on the way home to help a little. I do have my work cut out for me with some of the car parts that have to be made that I'll do at my house. As you know John is about done with your car and then will start on the body work on the extended nose so he will be very busy on the car.
I'll try and get more of Hooley's work posted over the next week or so,
Sum
Sumner's Web Pages (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/sumnerindex.html)
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WELCOME BACK, Sum.
Store the water wings and buy a new can of hand cleaner.
Me hopes You is in it for the L O N G haul.
FREUD
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Hey Sum,
Glad you are back! Say hi to Ruth from the KC crew! :-)
Hope to see you both sometime in the near future.
Geo
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Great to see you back on the board Sum. Are you getting back to work on your lakester? :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pete
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Great to see you back on the board Sum. Are you getting back to work on your lakester? :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pete
What he said!
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Yeah. What they said. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Wayno
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Add me to the Welcome Back Group................ :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Bob
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Thanks for the welcome back guys!! After missing Speed Week for the first time in years last year it will be good to be going back. Ruth is excited also!
Hooley mentioned me driving the car. Just to be clear on that, I'd love to get some license runs in and such, but the car comes first. If we get there and weather is coming in and it is questionable on how many days we will be racing we will be concentrating on getting the car and the driver ready for the long course as quick as possible and that would mean that I'd put off driving for a while.
There are a lot of changes to the car with the longer wheelbase, wing and going to a much larger turbo motor so there will be a lot to sort out on the salt this year which should be fun. We do have a history of breaking some part and late night runs to SLC to machine shops and such but hope to not get in that scenario this time,
Sum
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I've finally gotten around to adding a couple more pages of what Hooley has done but I'm still behind him in posting pictures. We hope to be out of Florida Monday and on our way to see him.
There is a new page with...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/waste-gate-1.jpg)
... some info on the 4 wastegates...
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-10.html
...and a page with...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Intercooler-I-O-5.jpg)
...the intercooler plumbing from the turbo compressors and then from the intercooler to the hat....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-11.html
He has been busy with a lot more!!
Sum
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Guys, don't forget the blow off valve.....
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Guys, don't forget the blow off valve.....
Hi Gary, Hooley just got 3 of them in and will mount them pretty soon,
Sum
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Hooley, Sumner, any pics os the body mods?
I just looked at the turbo set up on Purple Sage-helluva nice job! :cheers:
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I was wondering how the build was going also. Hope all is good!!
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I was wondering how the build was going also. Hope all is good!!
Actually it is going well. Hooley is working everyday hard in OK, I'm working most of the time in Utah and have lots to post that has been done by everyone, but haven't :cry:. John made some major body panels to fill in the 2 foot hole ahead of the cowl from extending the wheelbase and Mark has been making items for the car back in Georgia. I'll try and get some pictures posted this next week,
Sum
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Summer good to see you on line, see you at SW.
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Summer good to see you on line, see you at SW.
We will look forward to that :-),
Sum and Ruth
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Summer good to see you on line, see you at SW.
We will look forward to that :-),
Sum and Ruth
Holy crap!!!!
Sum's BAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers
Good to see ya dude!!!
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I concur. 8-) Wayno
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Thanks guys.
I did post another page on the build....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-12.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-12.html)
It shows how John made new side pieces to fill in the extended nose.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/nose-body-7.jpg)
Lots more has been done, I just need to get busy posting,
Sum
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I've added 4 pages to the build. The building of a radiator-in-a-box. I need to thank Sparky for the idea and the help in consulting us on this. Of course if it doesn't work we will know who to blame 8-) :-o :-).
Here are a few pictures...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-1.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-4.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-19.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-31.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-36.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-57.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-67.jpg)
... with lots more and descriptions of the work done at the bottom of the page here.....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html)
There are also pictures of what Sparky has there also,
Sum
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wow I didn't know you were going to convert it to a 4 door :-D
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I added a youtube video of pumping water through the box surrounding the radiator with one of the pumps that will be used with the intercoolers.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjjuzGtKne4&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjjuzGtKne4&feature=youtu.be)
.... it flowed about 15 gallons a minute and the Mezeire we are going to use should flow quite a bit more.
Also....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-75.jpg)
.... added a page on the mounts for the rad-in-a-box.....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-17.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-17.html)
Sum
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I added a page last night on the work Hooley has done with the vertical stabilizers and wing....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--20.jpg)
to the build....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html)
I have the stabilizes and wing in Utah and need to finish it. He has most of the front body work made if not all by tonight and he has the motor mostly together, waiting on pushrods and he needs to get the dummy motor out of the car so he can get the intake off of it. He had to finish the body panels around the engine before he could remove it.
John was over at his house today and helped put a hole in the nose of the car for the scoop inlet and lined up some other body work that needs to be finished. I started on the tank for the ice water for the intercoolers and will go back to that since I'm shipping the rad-in-a-box back to OK tomorrow. I finished it today with multiple heat shields on the header side of the box,
Sum
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Wow! That's a helluva wing!
How did you go about calculating the down force needed, or the amount of down force this wing can generate? It seems to me, that too much down force will add to drag, and also will/may add too much 'weight' to the tires.
Can you explain the process to those of us with little understanding of the principles behind this?
Car looks wicked! :cheers:
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Wow! That's a helluva wing!
How did you go about calculating the down force needed, or the amount of down force this wing can generate? It seems to me, that too much down force will add to drag, and also will/may add too much 'weight' to the tires.
Can you explain the process to those of us with little understanding of the principles behind this?
Car looks wicked! :cheers:
Buddy, the picture is misleading, the wing will be nearly neutral. They are making a gauge to adjust the wing once the car is finished.
John
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....How did you go about calculating the down force needed, or the amount of down force this wing can generate? It seems to me, that too much down force will add to drag, and also will/may add too much 'weight' to the tires....
As John stated the wing in that position would be the extreme and not likely to happen and you are right trying to calculate the downforce of a wing is beyond us. Not sure if you read the page or not but the wing isn't a wing in the more familiar sense of an airplane wing that is designed for lift or downforce if placed upside down.
Our wing is actually a helicopter blade, we don't know which helicopter, and .....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--15.jpg)
...is designed to be neutral as far as we know. So if it is parallel to the ground and in free air, not close to the ground or the body of the car, it should produce no lift in that situation. It produces lift or downforce by changing the angle of attack. If we used a normal wing shape, not neutral, then more knowledge would sure be needed. I'm hoping that we are also taking the old trunk lid with the spoiler that has been used attached just in case we think we need to revert back to it at SW.
You are also correct in that anytime you are creating downforce or have the wing and the vertical stabilizers in the air you are creating more drag. We hope to have more HP :-). Also we feel that in order to have the traction to deal with the higher HP and speeds we would need more rear weight in the car which would also mean more nose weight to keep the Center of Pressure ahead of the Center of gravity. The car weighs 6000 now to do that or close to it. More weight would hurt acceleration that is also needed at higher speeds. The wing if it works will help a lot with the Center of Pressure and with putting more force on the drive tires. So it might offset the drag penalty, but the key is we still need more HP than we have had to go faster than the 253 the car has run.
On our low speed runs working up in speed we will start with it very slightly up hoping to produce a small amount of downforce at first and try to stay away from any lift. We had hope to find a smaller helicopter blade, but have had no luck there. Some blades have to be replaced after so many hours and others can be reconditioned/re-certified as we understand it.
Mark made an inclinometer to use in adjusting it, pictures later when I get it. He also made some rods with rubber o-rings on them that we hope to mount on the car on all 4 corners that will give us a record of how far the suspension is compressed or if it lifts. Knowing spring rates and using these might give us some crude downforce data.
Hooley also wants to change the front of the car to a straight axle for 2014,
Sum
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It has always been my understanding that Helicopter blades are wings. Just not fixed wings but rotating ones. If they don't provide lift, how do helicopters fly? Beyond that, This is really some deal. Must be a new record for racy looking Studebakers, at least. Looking foward to seeing it run.
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John, Sumner-thanks for the info!
I did read the post, but knowing those involved, I was pretty sure there was a little' more too it than was posted!
I'm curious, and anxious for you guys to get the bugs worked out of it and get some data. I'm not above 'borrowing ideas that work! :evil: :-D
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Looks like some Trackmaster Spl influence?
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The wing section of a helicopter blade is no different than a standard wing, it just has no camber, so its neutral lift angle of attack is 0 degrees.
A cambered wing can also have zero lift but the angle of attack will be different to cancel out the effect of the camber (and it will have more drag at zero lift).
The helicopter blade achieves lift by changing its angle of attack.
Lift depends on both the angle of attack and the wing camber.
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/Wright/airplane/shape.html
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/Wright/airplane/incline.html
Larry
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Sum;
Are you planning to put a wing profile on your vertical stabilizer? If not, consider the drag difference you'd have with an aerodynamic vertical stabilizer vs a flat rectangular section. A little shaped balsa wood fastened to the leading & trailing edges would lower drag significantly.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Sum,
It looks like your blade or wing or what ever has a balsa wood core but is the skin aluminum or composite? Anyway you might want to make provisions to be able to put a "wicker bill" or Gurney flap, what ever you would like to call it, on the wings trailing edge, it effectively adds camber to the wing and it will allow you to run a larger angle of attack before the wing stalls, plus they don't add much drag.
Looking forward to seeing you at the salt.
Rex
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...Are you planning to put a wing profile on your vertical stabilizer?....Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
That is my plan. We had hoped to of made the verticals in a full neutral airfoil shape but for now will have to settle on just working with the leading and trailing edges as you mentioned. Another one of those 'don't have enough time deals' :cry:
Sum
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Sum,
It looks like your blade or wing or what ever has a balsa wood core but is the skin aluminum or composite? Anyway you might want to make provisions to be able to put a "wicker bill" or Gurney flap, what ever you would like to call it, on the wings trailing edge, it effectively adds camber to the wing and it will allow you to run a larger angle of attack before the wing stalls, plus they don't add much drag.
Looking forward to seeing you at the salt.
Rex
The core isn't balsa, some kind of hard wood and it does have a composite skin. Again we still have a ton to do in the next 2 weeks, so what we have now is what we will be going with this year. I still have to cover the verticals and have just started on the ice water intercooler tanks and Hooley and John both still have lots to do. If we make it, and we sure hope to, it will be a real accomplishment. Hooley has spent an enormous amount of time on the car since the first of the year.
TurboSmart is helping to sponsor the car and I just received the e-Boost2 boost controller today from them. Marty there and Gordon at Superiorairflow.com (carb hat and C & S Blow thru carb)have been a big help to us and will be advising us via phone on the salt with tuning help, which we will for sure need.
Looking forward to seeing you also and others,
Sum
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Wow! That's a helluva wing!
How did you go about calculating the down force needed, or the amount of down force this wing can generate? It seems to me, that too much down force will add to drag, and also will/may add too much 'weight' to the tires.
Can you explain the process to those of us with little understanding of the principles behind this?
Car looks wicked! :cheers:
Wing specs for competition coupes need to be rewritten to allow normal height above deck lit instead of 6'' above
highest part of body.
keep the height limit but allow lower mounting so these giant towers don't have to be erected.
It worries me about no specs for mounting these high wings.
JL222
JL222
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.... Wing specs for competition coupes need to be rewritten to allow normal height above deck lit instead of 6'' above
highest part of body.
keep the height limit but allow lower mounting so these giant towers don't have to be erected.
It worries me about no specs for mounting these high wings... JL222
The height doesn't bother me that much as we are looking for the increased benefits it has on Center of Pressure, but having one overall height for any and all cars should maybe reconsidered. A more even playing field might be something like no more than 12 inches higher than the highest point on the vehicle and no lower limit and do away with the 6 inches above the highest point that you mentioned.
That would allow a lower wing surface if so desired and would keep things pretty much the same regardless of car height so a lower car would be in the same situation as a taller car as the wing would be in proportion to the individual car's height not one set height. Hooley's car is pretty low but it would be harder to get say a 30's comp coupe that low and they might actually have problems being within the current ruling.
The new ruling does have the benefit of making the cars safer as the speeds increase by helping with the Center of Pressure. I think with current engine/blower/turbo technology 300+ mph speeds in the blown classes of comp coupe are within reason for engines as low as E and maybe even F,
Sum
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Nice work, I hope you get rewarded in return. The Comp Coupe wing specs were taken pretty much along the lines for the Modified Roadster wing specs, and also to be effective, it needs to be in the wind. If you want to change the rule to your specs, then do it, I am fine with what ever keeps these cars safe as the speeds increase. I know the wing saved my car in 2012 with the conditions of the course. A couple of other cars were not as lucky.
The "E" record is over three without a wing!
Good Luck
George
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Nice work, I hope you get rewarded in return. The Comp Coupe wing specs were taken pretty much along the lines for the Modified Roadster wing specs, and also to be effective, it needs to be in the wind. If you want to change the rule to your specs, then do it, I am fine with what ever keeps these cars safe as the speeds increase. I know the wing saved my car in 2012 with the conditions of the course. A couple of other cars were not as lucky.
The "E" record is over three without a wing!
Good Luck
George
Thanks George and I forgot you had that record with your 1/2 a V-8 :oops:. Impressive!! I think most of the gas records will also be up there soon.
I agree that the wing/vertical stabilizers is a big safety factor and I wouldn't want the ruling to go backwards to less than what is possible under the rule now,
Sum
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I finally finished the rad-in-a-box and shipped it to Hooley Monday. The final mods to it was....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-heat-shields-4.jpg)
... the addition of FyreWrap insulation to the motor side and...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-heat-shields-13.jpg)
and a panel to protect it and hold it in place. It has a 2300 deg. F rating.
Then two....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-heat-shields-19.jpg)
..... 4 heat shields were put in place with....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-heat-shields-28.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-heat-shields-30.jpg)
...air gaps between them.
More pictures and info starts here....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-18.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-18.html)
Working on the intercooler ice water tank now. Hooley and Ken finished the front body work and have removed it so they can pull the dummy motor and put the new one in. I'll post some pictures when I get them from him. John is working on rocker panels and an inlet for the scoop on the nose of the car in Missouri,
Sum
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I dig the setup!
Cast Iron heads on the big block?? Or is that a mock up engine? If so, you probably know that most aftermarket heads have the exhaust raised .3-.600". Just throwing that out there.
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I dig the setup!
Cast Iron heads on the big block?? Or is that a mock up engine? If so, you probably know that most aftermarket heads have the exhaust raised .3-.600". Just throwing that out there.
Yes that is/was the mockup engine. It came out 2 days ago and all the new chassis work was painted and the new engine with 'aftermarket' heads is going in now. I guess we will know soon if there is a problem. I've got faith in Hooley to rectify it if so. Thanks for mentioning this as if there is a problem at least we know now what caused it,
Sum
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.... you probably know that most aftermarket heads have the exhaust raised .3-.600". ..
He has the headers mounted and the ports were a little higher but he is working around it by slotting the bolt holes for some of the turbo mounts and will move the exhaust out the body up by about 1/4 inch so he will just raise the hole that much. He said it wasn't bad,
Sum
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Hooley finished...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/body-nose-8.jpg)
...the bodywork to ...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/body-nose-6.jpg)
...fill in the nose....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/body-nose-11.jpg)
...pulled everything out and painted and....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/body-nose-12.jpg)
...has the motor in. More on the build pages....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html
I'll try and find time to keep posting pictures, but don't have the time to add the dialog until probably after b'ville,
Sum
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It's looking good!
I'll be down at Randy's later in the week. Hooley, if you need a last minute hand, I'll be available Monday the 5th and Tuesday the 6th.
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It's looking good!
I'll be down at Randy's later in the week. Hooley, if you need a last minute hand, I'll be available Monday the 5th and Tuesday the 6th.
Thanks, he might not read this as he is working from dawn to past dark, but I'll let him know. He is suppose to be at my place in Utah on the 5th if things go ok, but he has lots to do before leaving. I'm feeling like I'm getting behind here also :cry:,
Sum
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/body-nose-1.jpg)
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GEEEZEEZZ---what a 8-) Ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Sum thanks posting:
Hooley and CREW :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Just spent nearly an hour reviewing this years changes, this thing is going to go down as one OF-- if not the the bitichenest Studes----- EVER----what a ride, what a ride!!!!!
-
Glad he got the headers to work. I hate those 'oh crap' moments
-
I don't have time to post a lot of build pictures now, but will share the ones below and will add more and info after B'ville.
I started on the vertical stabilizers Hooley had made and wanted to post....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley 2013/wing-temp-1.jpg)
...the picture above as it gives a better idea of the size. I took 2 inches off the top and squared off the trailing edge at the top. Next I welded on 3/4 inch round tubing to the leading edge, trailing edge and top. Once it is skinned the top and leading edge will be the round tubing. I put it on the trailing edge as I believe that it will help there with a smoother transition when I wrap the skin past it into a 5 inch taper.
Next up is the intercooler ice water tank that is finished except for some additional heat shields as it will sit out in the area between the engine (and Header) and the fender on the driver side. It holds exactly 28 gallons of water/ice.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/temp-intercooler-tank-1.jpg)
Above you can see it under construction with the twin pumps on the right that expel water into the small tank they are attached to that has two flapper check valves I made in it. The tank will connect with one inch hoses to the bottom outlets to the left and each outlet will go to a separate intercooler.
In this next picture...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/temp-intercooler-tank-2.jpg)
... the construction is further along and the arrow points to the return area of the tank and I boxed it off to keep the warmer return water from contacting the cold water going out below it.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/temp-intercooler-tank-3.jpg)
Above you can see the wooden mockup tank on the right that was made at Hooley's and used to make sure the new tank, left, hopefully will fit in the car when it gets to Utah.
The...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/temp-intercooler-tank-4.jpg)
... two arrows point to the two bolts that screw into studs that compress the lid and hold it on the tank. It should be very easy to add ice and as I mentioned above the tank holds 28 gallons.
Next...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/temp-intercooler-tank-5.jpg)
... the first heat shield was made and although hard to see it covers the entire side of the tank facing the headers. 1 inch of FyreWrap, like what was used on the rad-in-a-box will be placed behind this shield and one or two more air gap shields will be place over most of this area also. When the car shows up we will look at covering the other 3 sides of the tank with the FyreWrap insulation,
Sum
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Hooley just call and the engine runs :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:.
He has a lot of little things, like putting the rear fenders on and wiring and such but he just might be on his way to Utah Sunday :-) :-),
Sum
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Your tank work's looking impressive Sum. You sure haven't started with the simple stuff and worked your way up. You jumped in at the top! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pete
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Your tank work's looking impressive Sum. You sure haven't started with the simple stuff and worked your way up. You jumped in at the top! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pete
Thanks, today I got...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing-temp-2.jpg)
...one of the stabilizers skinned on both sides and the other one ready for the skin. I still have to put the trailing edge on the one above, weld all the seams and do some bondo work. If I can finish this one and the other one tomorrow I should be able to do the finish work Sat./Sun. They won't be show car material, but should work.
Hooley made the comment that the car is going to have some rough edges like the first year we ran. Next year it should look better,
Sum
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Everything looks great Sumner. You get a lot more done than I do.
I primed the fiberglass rocker panels, that I made, this morning. I will go to Hooley's tomorrow morning to fit them to the car. I will not have time to paint them.
The air intake is done but needs some sanding on the inside. It did not release from the mold cleanly but it will be useable.
Stay on task everyone.
John
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Cant wait to see this bad boy in person next week :-) And meet Sum and Hooley. I hear lots of good things about Sum when Im over helping Sparky :-)
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The team is at Sumner's working hard to prepare the car.
John
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They are THRASHING like mad men :-o
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They found an oil leak from a pushrods passage to an intake runner and repaired the hole. They are scheduled to fire the engine and test the repair soon.
Work is continuing but they will be a little behind schedule arriving on the salt.
I am 1200 miles away and wishing I was there to help.
John
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Sum has made a new (smaller) wing---they had pressure tested the port with compressed air and were going back together when he called last night he is busy as the welder-fabricator man---nip here---whack and jack there-- to get the tanks and plumbing in---I think I heard him say that Hooley wants get every thing in and "fill-er-up" to see what the ride height, deflection and rate is on the springs---can't wait to see this thing up close and personal.
I got into the port from the push rod side of the port wall---apparently someone before Holley bought it, had gotten a little bit aggressive with the porting tool from the port side on Hooley's Dart 360s
-
Just got off the phone with Sum :-D they may be a day late but they don't think they will be a dollar short---it fires ---no smoke--- A/F looks good----sounds so good
[it was instant "woodies" all around ] :-o---correction---Tim Cox said that about his PRO Charged AA Camaro
They must have installed the new wing because Sum said it really looked good---was very surprised at how well --- can't wait so see some new posts---but these guys are humping it---to get there Sat most likely!!!!!!!! can't wait to see this BITCH'N ride
-
Woooohoooo! Go team Go!
-
Great news!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Keep at her Guys.
Pete
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It's GREAT to have both of them back this year.
FREUD
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Great stuff! :cheers:
Another must see for me! :-D
-
Everything is going well at Sumner's place. Crew is tired but they are about done. They should arrive on the salt late Saturday or early Sunday.
John
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Got there yesterday set up and as you may have guessed got through TECH today--Sum has to go through "Rookie" Tues at 11:00 am they plan on putting the car in line and going through Rookie should get to run at around noon-- Sums PUMPED
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just got off the phone with Sum :-o Wow :-o Sum is having a great adventure late this afternoon he made his over 200 lisc pass They are having all kinds of adventures---putting all the weight back in this morning,, tours out side the lights, Testing wing fins ---they work by the way nine # will break the tires loose at nearly any speed-if it HITS --- needs lot of ice---so far only running on the waste gate springs -- they are beginning to push it a little, and are having oil temp issues---they will drain the oil in the am and see how much they are blowing or pushing out---all in all they are having
a pretty good first outing if you ask me
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: to Hooley, Sum and ALL the crew !!!!!!!!
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Awesome :cheers: Hope I get to hear it on the live feed tomorrow :-D Dean
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Just got off the phone with Sum
They did an evaluation of car and systems---they have some conflicting info---they pulled the oil and filter and found small amounts of bearing material.
They are going to put it on the trailer and leave the car a Sums so that he can get the gauges and data logging system agreeing they had a faulty temp gauge and with the lisc. runs yesterday, they were not cooling down as much as they thought. and on the last run the time slip and the "dream chart" which had been spot on did not agree.
---back home and back to making sure every thing works and agrees before pushing this new car even close to what its potential is. All in All a great first meet for what is nearly a new car and for Sum who now can run on the record and for a hat.
way to go Hooley and your hooleygans
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Hooley - Thanks for a great Speedweek. Cliff and I left pumped up after helping on the car. Hope all goes well with the 974 car. All the guys on the team are first class. Looking forward to next year and running our own program. We will keep you updated.
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Hooley....Well done. It was a pleasure to meet you, Sumner , Ruth and the crew.Hope my input helped a little. Will you run next month or in October?
-
I saw the car and the crew. I just missed Hooley, Sumner and Ruth.
Double dang.
FREUD
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Hooley....Well done. It was a pleasure to meet you, Sumner , Ruth and the crew.Hope my input helped a little. Will you run next month or in October?
Yep, the input was well appreciated and helped!! We are seeing if we can manage to be back the first of October. Look forward to seeing you and the rest of the tech guys. Nathan also really helped with an excellent 'rookie orientation'.
I saw the car and the crew. I just missed Hooley, Sumner and Ruth.
Double dang.
FREUD
Freud we are so sorry to of missed you. We heard that you were by the car when we were in 'rookie orientation'. We missed Salt Talks and about everything else working on the car late each day. Hope we can make World Finals and that you are there also. Ruth says hi,
Sumner
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If things go the way Marlo plans I will see you at Finals.
FREUD
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We might be seeing you also........
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We might be seeing you also........
Great that would be fantastic,
Sum and Ruth
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What great people, Hooley, Sum and the whole team, thanks for taking the time out to talk to us 'foreigners :-P' on Thursday, we will wear our 'Team Hooley' shirts with great pride; heck, Hooley even takes Aussie Dollars!! :cheers:
Well done and good luck at the World Finals guys! :-D
-
It was great seeing both old and new friends on the salt.
I had a great time driving the car and getting my A, B, C and D licenses. We thought we might of hurt the bearings on the motor on my A license run due to high oil temps and called it quits. Took the car to my house and pulled the motor and Hooley took it back to OK. He pulled bearing caps the last couple days and it looks like the bearings are fine. I'm cleaning the car and working on some items. We are hopefully going to make World Finals where Hooley will start driving in AA/BFCC. If he gets a record then we will change classes back to BG and I'll resume driving.
I've started to finish documenting the changes to the car and put up the first page on...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-4.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-10.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-21.jpg)
....the intercooler ice water tank...
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-24.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-24.html)
I'll start by just posting pictures and will add dialog later as time permits. If you have a question about what you see just ask.
I'll post from time to time as I add more pages,
Sum
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Sum, I'll catch up with you at Finals. I saw you this time just as we were getting ready to push of the Roadster. Wayno
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Sum, I'll catch up with you at Finals. I saw you this time just as we were getting ready to push of the Roadster. Wayno...
Sounds good.
I got 2 more pages up on the 28 gallon intercooler ice water tank. .....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-35.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-44.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-48.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-54.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-58.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-71.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-75.jpg)
... Lots more pictures at the following link .....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html)
One more page on the insulation/heat shields/and install should do it then back to the vertical stabilizers and wing,
Sum
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that tank is a work of art.
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that tank is a work of art....
Thanks, it is nice and it works well but hopefully I could do better the next time around.
I also just posted two pictures of the rad-in-a-box in the car after B'ville.....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-76.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/rad-in-box-77.jpg)
I also posted observation on how it worked for us here.....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-19.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-19.html)
...We are very happy with the results and if I ever finish the lakester it will have a similar setup,
Sum
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Got the last page of the 28 gallon ice water intercooler tank up and some pictures in the car.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-85.jpg)
I had to clearance the tank and heatshields/insulation after Hooley showed up with the car at my place for brake lines, an oil line and a frame member.
The tank is very close....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-86.jpg)
...to the outer fender, but does clear. We were very happy with how it, the two bilge pumps and the two intercoolers worked. I believe that once we really pack it with ice we will see inlet air temps under 90 deg.
More pictures here....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-27.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-27.html)
Sum
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I got a video posted on youtube showing how...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-10.jpg)
the pumps and the flapper check valves and ...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-21.jpg)
... the combiner box that was made works. The idea behind the combiner box is that both pumps pump into it and .....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Ice-Water-Tank-17.jpg)
..... there are separate outlets from it going to.....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/Intercoolers-9.jpg)
..... the two separate intercoolers. If one pump fails the remaining pump would still pump to both intercoolers. The pumps don't have internal check valves so the check valves in the box don't allow water to just be pumped back through the dead pump if there is one.
In the test I ran one pump only and then the other pump only and then both pumps together. The intercoolers hold about 1/2 gallon of water and with both pumps running that water is being cycled over 20 times a minute through the intercoolers.
Here is the youtube link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqb60NgxpxY&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqb60NgxpxY&feature=youtu.be)
Sum
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Sum, the car looks great!
I love our rad in a tank, so I'm not surprised you do too! Thank tank looks awwsome!
It was great finally getting to meet you, and see Hooley and the car again!
-
I put up 3 pages on finishing the vertical stabilizers for the wing and also the new smaller wing build. I'll post some of the pictures here.
First I took some off the top of the framework....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--25.jpg)
....that Hooley had made on the car when it was in OK.
Next...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--31.jpg)
.... 3/4 inch round tubing was welded to the top and the leading and trailing edges.
Then....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--35.jpg)
.... 20 gauge skins were applied to the front and back of the frames.
Next....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--49.jpg)
... a framework for the trailing edge was applied to the main framework.
One ....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--50.jpg)
...ready for the trailing edge....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--51.jpg)
.... to be skinned.
The skin....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--53.jpg)
... was welded around all the perimeters (over 30 feet of weld on each vertical). There was major warpage since I was trying to make these as Hooley and Ken were driving from OK to Utah so not much time for welds to cool.
I turned the verticals over to ....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--54.jpg)
... first Bill and Frank to apply a lot of bondo to. They then had to leave and....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--55.jpg)
...Charlie managed to finish them off very well considering the time restraints he was under.
They were...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--64.jpg)
...installed and painted, after midnight, Friday and we left late Saturday for the Salt about 2 1/2 days later than planned.
The car on...
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--66.jpg)
... the salt (picture by Tom).
I'll do a separate post on the small wing that was built in a day and that Charlie also finished off.
There are a lot more pictures and more detailed info starting here....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-20.html
Sum
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Sum, your work looks great!
Just an idea, as round stock is really not very aero-how about 'knife' edging the leading edge?
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Sum, your work looks great!
Just an idea, as round stock is really not very aero-how about 'knife' edging the leading edge?
Thanks for the input. The air is only seeing 1/2 of the round and that is more teardrop shaped than knife edging or at least that is my feeling. You are right that a round object is not the most aero shape. They do taper to the trailing edge at under 7 degrees.
Here is a quote from one of the build pages....
I'm hoping that the CdA of each vertical stabilizers is around .035 [(33 X .75)/144 X .2], but this is just a guess as well as the figure for the wing. I believe the wing is considerably more aero than the vertical stabilizers.
Both the verticals together are only adding about .35 of a square foot to the frontal area ,
Sum
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Sum, thanks for the explanation!
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Sum, it's great to see your build pictures again, no matter which build. I'm looking forward to seeing some for your lakester in the not to distant future. :-D :-D :cheers:
Pete
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Sum, it's great to see your build pictures again, no matter which build. I'm looking forward to seeing some for your lakester in the not to distant future. :-D :-D :cheers:
Pete
Thanks hopefully that will happen soon. Hooley has to release me from the Stude first 8-).
Anyone know the whereabouts of a 302 GMC straight 6?
Sum
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Anyone know the whereabouts of a 302 GMC straight 6?
Sum
No, but I know where Caddy flatheads are! :wink: :wink: :-D
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Anyone know the whereabouts of a 302 GMC straight 6?
Sum
No, but I know where Caddy flatheads are! :wink: :wink: :-D
I know where there is a 189 mph one that might get a person or two into the 2 club in a lakester 8-),
Sum
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While Hooley and (OK) Ken were on their way to Utah I had second thoughts about the ....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--13.jpg)
... large wing that we had found and were planning on trying. We had looked for a smaller symetrical foil hellicopter blade with no luck so decided to try the larger one. Since we had changed the car so much with the longer wheelbase and motor change and some people that I respect commented on the large wing I decided to try and design and make a smaller one if time would permit. So laying in bed at 4 in the morning after going to sleep around midnight I designed a wing and asked Ruth if she had paper and a pen next to the bed.
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--67.jpg)
Above is what I came up with. The main points to it is that it "is small", I don't think it is capable of creating much lift or downforce, and the construction was straight forward and yet strong. This is not a copy of a known wing shape so please if anyone wants to try and duplicate it be forewarned that you are doing this completely on your own.
I designed the wing to be symmetrical, top and bottom surfaces, and to be as aero, least drag, that I could by keeping the angle to the trailing edge under 7 degrees. There is more about it on the build page and of course a lot more pictures and info here....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-22.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-22.html)
Here are a couple pictures of the wing under-construction ....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--68.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--71.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--75.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--73.jpg)
(Ohio) Ken above and I made the wing in less than a day and....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--78.jpg)
...Charlie did the bondo work on it. It wasn't near the bodywork adventure that the verticals were as warpage was minimal.
I painted it at midnight the night before we left for the salt.....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--84.jpg)
... and we were very please with how it and ....
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/wing--87.jpg)
.... the verticals worked on the salt. We kept the angle of attack to 2 degrees and have no idea at this point if it is giving us downforce or not. As speeds increase we will play with the angle of attack and also decide if we should try the large wing.
Again more info here....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-22.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-22.html)
Sum
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I added some video of my license runs last night. We have in-car and out-the-front video from the first 3 runs. Then I think we left the cameras on and ran the batteries sown as the last 3 runs we only have a few minutes of video from each run (guess the batteries recharged while off a little on their own). Those videos were of some value as we can see the oil temp on the dash before each run and can see that it was getting hotter and hotter as the last 4 runs were back to back. We really shouldn't of made the A license run that day knowing what we know now. Should of gone to the pits and cooled everything down. Next time we will be much more careful and watch the oil temps and change some of the water between each run in the main 30 gallon tank that feeds the rad-in-a-box and change water and add a lot more ice to the intercooler tank since hopefully we will be running more boost.
Here are two videos from the C license run (150-175 mph)my second run after getting the D license) and it is pretty boring but shows the starter and you can also see how well the car handles. The only time I moved the wheel was a couple short WOT experiments when the tires got loose going into boost and the car jumped a little sideways.
In-Car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jymzMP1fjIQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jymzMP1fjIQ)
Down-Track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44GVPKMguo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44GVPKMguo)
the 2 mile was 168.846, 2 1/4 177.085, 3 mile was 173.66. I pushed the 2 1/4 speed a little higher than I should of but was trying to see if getting 175 at the 2 1/4 to qualify the car for the long course was going to be a problem as they wanted us to re-qualify the car with all the changes to it. We did not try to use that speed to go to the long course, but used my speed on my B license run the next day.
Next up is video from my first attempt at a B license (175-200 mph). I was trying to run 190 at the 2 1/4 and when I went to WOT before the 2 the throttle stuck wide open for 3 seconds. The car jumped sideways and I lifted as I had done on previous runs but the throttle was stuck wide open. This was at 178 mph according to the data log at that point. The tail of the car continued to the right very quickly and I felt for sure it was going to go all the way around so didn't pull the chute as it would of just wrapped around the car. I steered into the slide and the vertical stabilizers caught the car and sent it the other way but not quite as far. Then I waited until the car started to swing the other way and pull the chute just before it was lined up with down-track. The chute came out and the car settled down. Of course all of that happened a lot quicker than you can read about it.
In-car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKGZrCyLSEI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKGZrCyLSEI)
Down-track (keep track of the horizon): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaGf2Dh7bPo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaGf2Dh7bPo)
We took the car back to the staging line and Hooley added a 3rd throttle spring that was also at a better angle to the linkage at WOT and never had a throttle problem after that run. No more videos after that run, but a short run-down.
The next run, for the B license, I screwed up and shifted from 1st to 4th. Instead of trying a down shift I left it there to see how the car would pull under load. I had a 122 mile 2 speed, 145 at the 2 1/4 and a 156 3 mile speed. According to the rpm at the exit the car was running over 180 though so that was good.
Finally got my act back together on the next B license run and ran a 155 2 mile, a 188.726 at the 2 1/4 (qualified for the long course) and a 186.560 3 mile as I just ran through at the same rpm trying not to screw anything up.
We went right over to the #2 long course and ran (should of waited to next day) and again I just wanted a smooth run for an A license. Ran a 153 2 mile, 178 at the 2 1/4, 188 3rd mile, 208 4th mile and a 213 5th mile. I ran the second half of the 3, all the 4 and all the 5 at about 50% throttle and about the same rpm as I didn't have my rpm sheet with me before the run. When I saw the exit traps coming up I got in it a little and ran a 217.997 exit speed. The oil temp was pegged at 300.
The next day after looking at the filter we decided to quit but later found no engine damage once Hooley got the engine to his place.
At this point I'd call the rear vertical stabilizers a major success as I'm sure the car would of spun without them on the one run and on the other runs the car was as straight as an arrow as long as the tires didn't break loose and when they did it was very predictable and returned to straight as soon as you lifted just a bit. On the near spin I thought for sure the forces might of laid the verticals over but they survived with no bending or damage at all.
I was really happy to of been able to drive the car and run over 200. Thanks Hooley and all the other guys who worked on the car and a special thanks to my wife, Ruth who has been very supportive on this whole deal.,
Sum
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Here is a reminder that might save someone else from a problem. Know your equipment. Case in point......
When Hooley built the Stude we decided on a G-Force 101 transmission. They had been used by NASCAR and in other series and could take a lot of HP and you could get a multitude of gear ratios for 1st, 2nd and 3rd with 4th being straight through and 1 to 1. The other nice feature about the transmission is that 3rd can be an overdrive gear which then makes 4th (1:1) into 3rd gear. Flop the linkage over and it shifts in the normal H pattern.
We settled on what I thought was the highest first gear, a 1.93 to one and a 1.34 2nd and the 1:1 3rd and a .93 4th overdrive. We also have a 2.47 ford rear-end.
Besides the wide range of available gears the transmission has a number of different input drive and cluster drive gears that widens your choice of the lowest gear (3.656) to the tallest gear (.747) depending on the input/cluster gears you chose and the other gears.
On my A license run, which was the first run using 4th I couldn't figure out why our speed according to the data log and to me seeing the tach was so far off the timing slip. According to my speed speadsheet at 6200 the car should of been running 240 and the slip was 218 at the exit from the 5 mile.
Well yesterday I removed the inspection plate and counted all the gear teeth. I found out that we had different input/cluster gears than we thought we had all of this time. I used what we thought we had to pick out a new taller 4th gear for this year and with the actual gear set we do have 4th was actually lower than what we had in the past. When I put in the correct gear set in the spreadsheet the data numbers lined up exactly with the time slip.
So this was a $400 mistake since G-Force won't take the gears back or give us a credit even though they were only run abut 2 miles :cry:
We are now looking for cheaper used gears on the internet or possibly changing the input/cluster gears to work with the new overdrive gear.
The moral of the story is know what you have :cry:,
Sum
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Buddy, about the round nose---according to PP---
"It doesn't much matter how you open the hole---its all about how you close the hole"
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We are now looking for cheaper used gears on the internet or possibly changing the input/cluster gears to work with the new overdrive gear.
Sum
Check with Tom Sarda a.k.a. Gear Guy LLC, co-founder of the ECTA. He has tons of 101/101-A experience and parts. He also has a multitude of 9" and QC parts & knowledge. 336-263-0287
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We are now looking for cheaper used gears on the internet or possibly changing the input/cluster gears to work with the new overdrive gear.
Sum
Check with Tom Sarda a.k.a. Gear Guy LLC, co-founder of the ECTA. He has tons of 101/101-A experience and parts. He also has a multitude of 9" and QC parts & knowledge. 336-263-0287
Thanks, I have 3 leads to possible solutions now but will talk to him right after the holiday weekend.
There are lots of gears on the internet and I've found people with them, but the problem is we need the greatest overdrive gears they made or the tallest input/cluster drive gears we can find and there wasn't much call for the tall gears so not as many out there.
I will check with him though so thanks for the heads-up,
Sum
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:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: congrats on your runs.
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An update on what is going on.
As I mentioned before, I think, after the high oil temp on the last run and the decision to go home and check the motor we took the car to my place and pulled the motor and Hooley took it home and checked the bearings. They looked fine so we might of been able to go on but....he did a leak down test on the motor and one cylinder was low, around 25%. He could hear air in the adjacent cylinder's intake or exhaust. He pulled the head and the head gasket was about ready to let go so good thing we stopped.
He installed new gaskets with a sealer and torqued them higher and also had time to run the motor to operating temp and let it set a couple days and retorqued again. Something he didn't have time for before. He feels good about it but the block might get O-Ringed over the winter.
I've cleaned the car but still find salt all of the time. Re-fiberglassed one part of the belly pan that got hurt going on or off the trailer. Also the same for the bottom of the nose of the frontend. Replaced 2 of the forward heims on the ladder bars.
Fixed some of the belly pan mounts that had either broke off or were damaged. Put in dzus fasteners on the very back belly pan that we had scabbed in just before going to the salt. Reinforced the frontend suspension stops and added a second brace to them.
Found some other rims and tires to use on the car when it is in storage and on the trailer. We also bought 2 almost new landspeed rear tires and rims. We are also going to mount up 2 tires I had so now will have 2 front and 2 rear spares.
I got 4 new springs for the wastegates that will let us start with basically zero boost at WOT. With the 8 lb. springs we were using it would go from no boost to 6-8 lbs. and the sudden 200-300 HP in a second or two was hard to control. Now with the ability to start at zero boost at WOT we should be able to bring the boost on in 2-4 lb increments with the 6 stage Turbosmart boost controller in 3rd and 4th and run on the motor in 1st and 2nd. Remember the car ran 218 on no boost and 50% throttle. I think on just motor in the first couple gears the car will actually accelerate faster since you won't have to be feathering the throttle so much. Then in some of 3rd and 4th we can hopefully bring the boost on in steps that don't keep breaking the tires loose.
I also found a new set of the 'right' overdrive gears for 4th (.865) that Hooley will put in when he gets to our place. I also found two different sets of higher drive gears for the transmission that drive the countershaft that would also give us a higher 4th with the present two high gear sets we have available now but would also make 1st and 2nd higher which could be good or bad. At least now we have a better selection of available gears and also gears I could use in the lakester if I buy the same transmission which is what I'm leaning towards.
Hooley is on his way now (Friday) to our place with his wife and sister-in-law. They are taking their time and should arrive here Sunday. We will spend a couple days sightseeing in the area and then Wanda and her sister will return home and we will put the motor back in the car and do a few other things and hopefully leave for Wendover Sunday the 30th.
The plan is to put Hooley in the car and run AA/BFCC. If he gets the record and there is still time we might change to AA/BGCC and I'll drive the car. This time there won't be any license runs for either of us so we might get a chance to see what the car will do and I'm very optimistic that it is going to be fast if we don't do anything stupid.
I think that is about it,
Sum
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Hopefully ill see you on the salt Sum. Didnt get the chance to meet you at SW
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I learned quite a bit fom your post Sum. Very interesting. Wish you all the best on the next outing. Thanks.
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Hooley sent me some pictures of the Stude back at his house and I thought I'd just share them...
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/Hooleys%20House-1.jpg)
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/Hooleys%20House-2.jpg)
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/Hooleys%20House-3.jpg)
We had some changes and a lot of maintenance for 2014 but never got a chance of course to run the car. Possible changes for 2015 include possibly going to a solid front-end and rear-end. Other than that, which is big, we would just like to run the car with the new engine/twin turbo combination and see how she does since we only got to make license runs in 2013,
Sumner
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Sum, you might try what I have done on my Stude. I use coil overs on all four corners with super heavy coils (450# on the rear and I think 650# on the front).
It sits where I want it and has zero spring deflection to hand pressure. I have several pictures with side views at speed and the same amount of tire shows as it does at rest.
Keep in mind that I run in CFALT and am required to run suspension.... mine just doesn't work. I can't remember what you guys have for suspension, but this would be a easy way out.
I am so sorry to hear about Ruth, take care Sum,
Bob Drury
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that is one fine lookin' ride
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Hooley got the Stude weighed the other day...
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/974-CG-CP-11.jpg)
... and I spent a little time today figuring the hypothetical CG and CP and a little more time posting how I did this here...
http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/14%20-%20hooley-construction-2014-2.html (http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/14%20-%20hooley-construction-2014-2.html)
Here are a couple pictures from the page and ....
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/974-CG-CP-2.jpg)
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/974-CG-CP-5.jpg)
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/974-CG-CP-7.jpg)
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/974-CG-CP-8.jpg)
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/974-CG-CP-10.jpg)
... yes I know this isn't exact but I figure better than just using a 'gut feeling' about where the CP is in relation to the CG,
Sumner
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Thanks for spelling out your method of finding CP vs. CG. I found it very helpful.
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to get the height and left/right of CG you can raise the front scales above rears by 1 foot and rescale, repeat raising the rears. A little bit of trigonometry and there you go. Same applies for left/right. This way you will know the exact point of CG.
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Sumner, is the wheel base really 142'?
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to get the height and left/right of CG you can raise the front scales above rears by 1 foot and rescale, repeat raising the rears. A little bit of trigonometry and there you go. Same applies for left/right. This way you will know the exact point of CG.
Thanks, I get it but our problem is no convenient scales. Hooley used a truck scale in town on a day that it was close but still usable. If the car wasn't such a pain to get in the air I guess he could still do it there but I think the car is getting put away for the winter. Something to add to the 'to do list',
Sumner
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Sumner, is the wheel base really 142'?
Yep, but I wasn't there to see if Hooley still knows how to use a tape measure 8-).
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/frontend-4.jpg)
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/frontend-11.jpg)
Remember that it got a 2 foot stretch in 2013..............
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html)
How has the Atlas 6 been running in the old truck? What were your 1/4 mile times? How much boost?
Sumner
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Sun, I think Gary is referring to the 142' [feet] wheel base as compared to a 142" inch wheel base. just having fun.
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Sun, I think Gary is referring to the 142' [feet] wheel base as compared to a 142" inch wheel base. just having fun.
I missed that :cry: but Gary didn't :evil:
Sum