Landracing Forum
Fundraising, For sale, and Wanted => For Sale by Private Parties => Topic started by: TheBaron on January 15, 2013, 11:15:06 AM
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I have the smallest real-deal Roots type blower I've ever run across for sale at $80 for the LSR community... I bought it three years ago just because I could resist....I had a fantasy of maybe a "blown bar-stool" fun machine, but my real project is not going to let me have the time to do that.
It is made by VW for Audi and Porsche air injection systems. I can hook you up with a tuner in Europe that uses these pumps to supercharge small 50cc and 90cc road racing motorcycles.
Email me for pictures,,,,,,,, rfsmithjr@hotmail.com
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Baron, How about telling us something about yourself? We enjoy talking about things related to land speed racing, and even enjoy the privilege of buying and selling things on this Forum. Usually, though, before we try selling -- we try to become familiar with how the folks on the site respond to a post that might as well be "blind". No idea who you are, no idea what you've got (other that what you say in this one and only post), no idea if you're on the level or just trying to dump something on one of us and run.
Let us know, please.
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Baron, How about telling us something about yourself? We enjoy talking about things related to land speed racing, and even enjoy the privilege of buying and selling things on this Forum. Usually, though, before we try selling -- we try to become familiar with how the folks on the site respond to a post that might as well be "blind". No idea who you are, no idea what you've got (other that what you say in this one and only post), no idea if you're on the level or just trying to dump something on one of us and run.
Let us know, please.
Good Call, on the ball right after the post, How to go Mister Manager Man. :cheers:
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Sure,,,, It makes sense to know who you are dealing with...
Well, I'm new to this forum but not to fast vehicles of all types. I retired a little over a year ago and decided it is time to try the salt flats like I've always wanted to do. I've been a member of the "Gear Grinders" for almost a year now and did a little volunteer duty at El Mirage last year...
I'm working on a Moto Morini 350cc pushrod V-twin as my ride.... Before you ask, it is a little Italian bike nobody ever heard of, with parts availability nobody has a clue about, and was designed about 1970. Mine is one of the last ones made in 1985 before the family owned company went under... They are considered nice commuter bikes.
It is a real challenge( pain) and I would be done by now if I had just picked a Yamaha or Honda , but It seemed like a good idea at the time...I'm sure this is the very first time this has happened to a LSR.
I live in Costa Mesa, CA and I usually sell stuff on Ebay where I have a 100% satisfaction rating. This time I thought I give you LSR guys and girls first crack at stuff. I'll be glad to post the parts on Ebay where the buyer protection is in effect to protect any purchase .
I have been a pro crew chief and engine builder at times during my long career, and now I want to do it just for me....
Robert in Costa Mesa
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At least one other has heard of the Moto Morini, I counted one record in the 350cc classes.
DW
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Hey Baron, Welcome, :cheers:I didn't even bat an eye when reading your post about the bike.
There must have been a dealer for the Moto Morini here in Calgary cause the name is quite familiar sounding. Got any pics of said Blower?
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Moto Marini. Small vee twin. Looks like a mini Vincent engine with the offset rods. There is one that races Bubs in 350 class.
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I sure do ...I'll see if they will attach....
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Small superchargers are rare compared to the number 6-71's out there.
$80 is a really low price.
If you are looking at small superchargers this is a valuable site:
http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/supercharging.html (http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/supercharging.html)
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When I was racing Karts we built a dual engine Mac 10 chassis with a roots type blower driven from the axle. The blower was a bilge pump deal from England, I think. Dick Harriman an drag racer from the San Fernando Valley found the blower and did the tuning(such as it was). The Kart set thra tarck record at the old Gardena oval beating out all the other classes that ran at the time.
The point of the story is, our blower looked much like this one,
DW
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I emailed you asking for pics 'cause I don't buy things sight unseen. Now that you've got some pics up here, I'll take it.
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Hi Nathan,
One of the guys in my club (Gear Grinders) saw the post and emailed me already that he wants it..
We are to meet on Friday, but if for whatever reason he doesn't take it then it is yours...
Robert
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Sorry Nate, beat you to it!
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You can only have it Dave if its going on the couch. :-D
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I wonder if there's a class for that?
BG/Couch
Dave
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I wonder if there's a class for that?
BG/Couch
Dave
1 Vote for the new class, as well as 1 order from the next batch of blowers. :cheers:
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Blown and Couch bring back way old memories.
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I believe this is a smog pump from a 68'-69' Porsche 912.
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Blown and Couch bring back way old memories.
too much information
G
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I believe this is a smog pump from a 68'-69' Porsche 912.
oh so you mean they're cheap and easy to find... cool.
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Are the rotor lobes shaped (cross-section) generally like those of a Jimmy blower? Two-lobe? Three-lobe? I'm guessing they aren't helical rotors?
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(http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/images/vwsmogpump.jpg)
"In 2004, a fellow by the name of Fritz Kott set an AMA record at Bonneville on his 750cc flathead Harley using this very same pump."
" I raced a blown Honda S-90 in the seventies for 2 years with the same smog pump (blower) at Bonneville. I worked for Porsche & VW then & these little blowers came to the U.S. on ’68 or ’69 912 Porsches as a smog pump. I wondered then why a U.S. made pump came from Germany on a new Porsche 912 but looking back it was probably a stop-gap measure to make the car meet tightening smog laws. They were driven at about 2:1 with a vee belt on the 912’s and they didn’t live too long (20-30k miles) spinning up to about 12k rpm. What happened was the bearings in the gears ran out of oil and it seized up and broke the belt. It is just a small roots blower with straight steel lobes and sealed bearings at one end. We threw a lot of them away and most owners didn’t put them back on in the Midwest. They didn’t appear to be something you could rebuild. You should be able to find one at some small old Porsche shops.
On the S-90 I drove it with a small chain on the generator side at about 1:1, and that was too much boost. It would make 20psi very quickly. Trying to supercharge a single-cylinder small motor is very difficult. It becomes a rhythmic, surging, pulsing, tuning nightmare. I tried blow-through, draw-through, long manifolds, very long manifolds, short ones, and all kinds of plenums. The surge was very violent. It accelerated like a 350cc, really pulling hard, and the next second it would shut off – about throwing you over the handlebars. It felt like the carb quit flowing air momentarily. We finally got it reasonable by making a plenum out of ½ of a propane torch cylinder with Homelite pyramid reed valves on each end to keep the charge going in the right direction. There was another guy from (I think) Riverside CA. doing the same thing and I think his name was Fletcher Izzard, also with an S-90.
I had no problems at all with the blower. I would say it’s not going to pressurize much more than a 200cc 4 stroke motor because it can’t flow enough volume of air. I ported mine a little bit.
The man that rode my bike was Mike McCann (Lisbon IA) who is the man with the large white sun block on his nose pushing Burt Munroe off the line in the out-takes of The World’s Fastest Indian movie. I then was the young guy hanging out at the old Chevy garage in Wendover during Speed Week listening to all these old guys, Burt, Mike, Rollie Free, and others drinking beer and bench racing - telling tall stories. It doesn’t get any better than that!
Bvilletom
Tom Bruch
Some info I found on another site.
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Thanks for the photos.
Any idea who it was made by? The quote in the previous post refers to it as a "US made pump", but post#1 of this thread says "made by VW". :?
Edit: Looking back to the other pictures now, I see the VW logo.
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The smog pump was made for VW by the Midland Ross Company in the late '60s.
Here is the 1966 patent information.http://www.google.com/patents?id=HBsdAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1965&dq=3275225#v=onepage&q=3275225&f=false (http://www.google.com/patents?id=HBsdAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1965&dq=3275225#v=onepage&q=3275225&f=false)
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bummer..... Ive been lookin for one pf those pumps for quite a while....
kent
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That patent by Forrest Schultz leaves me a little puzzled. Even the title "Fluid Compressor"; eveyone else seems to agree that Roots blowers aren't 'compressors'. And I fail to see the uniqueness of the "reduced leakage" claim. But I do need to go back and try to better understand his geometric expressions of the rotor shapes- that is, after I consult a dictionary for "hypocycloidal"!
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I may be interested in this for my 145cc Tecumseh powered Rupp mini bike...
It's a jack shaft setup, maybe run the blower off of that? Would be a whole lot
of fun and glorious noise at seven grand :-D
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"hypocycloidal"?
Is that having sex under water?
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NO, Stan -- I think it's a word that describes an octopus' mental imaginings of underperformance.
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Isn`t it a very large African animal riding a bicycle? :lol:
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hypocycloidal: describes the path taken by a point on a circle as the circle rolls around the inside of a larger circle (coplanar).
epicycloidal: describes the path taken by a point on a circle as the circle rolls around the outside of a smaller circle (coplanar).
Consider a planetary (aka 'epicyclic') gearset. It seems obvious that either term describes the path taken by a tooth of a planet gear. So that explains the 'epicyclic' nomenclature; but why is the redundant term 'hypocyclic' needed? :?
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The planetary gearset analogy is somewhat tricky. It depends on your frame of reference. The planet gear can only “roll on” one or the other of the reference sun or ring gears at a time. If the sun gear is fixed, it produces the epicycloidal path on the outside of the gear. If the ring gear is fixed the hypocycloidal path is generated on the inside of the gear, which is an entirely different path relative to the reference frame.
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It sure appears to me that there is only one planet gear path, whether ring gear or sun gear is fixed.
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(http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/images/vwsmogpump.jpg)
"In 2004, a fellow by the name of Fritz Kott set an AMA record at Bonneville on his 750cc flathead Harley using this very same pump."
" I raced a blown Honda S-90 in the seventies for 2 years with the same smog pump (blower) at Bonneville. I worked for Porsche & VW then & these little blowers came to the U.S. on ’68 or ’69 912 Porsches as a smog pump. I wondered then why a U.S. made pump came from Germany on a new Porsche 912 but looking back it was probably a stop-gap measure to make the car meet tightening smog laws. They were driven at about 2:1 with a vee belt on the 912’s and they didn’t live too long (20-30k miles) spinning up to about 12k rpm. What happened was the bearings in the gears ran out of oil and it seized up and broke the belt. It is just a small roots blower with straight steel lobes and sealed bearings at one end. We threw a lot of them away and most owners didn’t put them back on in the Midwest. They didn’t appear to be something you could rebuild. You should be able to find one at some small old Porsche shops.
On the S-90 I drove it with a small chain on the generator side at about 1:1, and that was too much boost. It would make 20psi very quickly. Trying to supercharge a single-cylinder small motor is very difficult. It becomes a rhythmic, surging, pulsing, tuning nightmare. I tried blow-through, draw-through, long manifolds, very long manifolds, short ones, and all kinds of plenums. The surge was very violent. It accelerated like a 350cc, really pulling hard, and the next second it would shut off – about throwing you over the handlebars. It felt like the carb quit flowing air momentarily. We finally got it reasonable by making a plenum out of ½ of a propane torch cylinder with Homelite pyramid reed valves on each end to keep the charge going in the right direction. There was another guy from (I think) Riverside CA. doing the same thing and I think his name was Fletcher Izzard, also with an S-90.
I had no problems at all with the blower. I would say it’s not going to pressurize much more than a 200cc 4 stroke motor because it can’t flow enough volume of air. I ported mine a little bit.
The man that rode my bike was Mike McCann (Lisbon IA) who is the man with the large white sun block on his nose pushing Burt Munroe off the line in the out-takes of The World’s Fastest Indian movie. I then was the young guy hanging out at the old Chevy garage in Wendover during Speed Week listening to all these old guys, Burt, Mike, Rollie Free, and others drinking beer and bench racing - telling tall stories. It doesn’t get any better than that!
Bvilletom
Tom Bruch
Some info I found on another site.
So it says a guy set a record on a 750 4-stroke using this blower and then goes on to say it wouldnt work on anything over a 400??
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So it says a guy set a record on a 750 4-stroke using this blower and then goes on to say it wouldnt work on anything over a 400??
I guy running a Harley set cherry picked a record in the 70's by taking the heater blower out of his truck to run the "blown" category.
That's why the rule now says "engine or exhaust driven". That doesn't mean it has to really do anything. If you can't be competitive in the normally aspirated class, stick a blower on it an run an open or lower record class.
Case in point in the 1000cc class.
M-PF Full House Mouse 2 H/D 08/03 150.150
M-PBF Dave Arnold H/D 08/11 125.922
Those two records exist because we made a pushrod class so the lame ducks could set a record.
These are the competitive speeds
M-F Scott Guthrie Racing Yamaha 08/04 197.702
M-BF Ryan Keep Suzuki 08/10 208.652
Dont' forget the wheel on a stick so that your pushrod can be even more lame duck.
SC-PF Willie Buchta Buell 10/07 128.136
SC-F Walter Kohler Suzuki 10/07 168.566 (faster, but still 30mph slower than Guthrie's record)
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Check the Bonneville record lists.
Whole lot more 500cc records than 350cc or 175cc records, but same classes available.
Be interesting if someone had the time to calculate whether there a just hundreds or maybe thousands of "unset" records.
Hope this information doesn't fall into the hands of those that list every record they have with every post. Sure could lead to a lot of scrolling to read the actual posts.
Stan Back
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I do remember Fritz running a blower of some type on a bike, and think that he allowed as to how the blower was sorta there for looks (read: to get into the blown class) vs. to provide some pressure to the intake side. Fritz has gone to Impound in the sky now and can't verify nor deny the story, but don't I also remember that soon after this event -- the rules got amended to require that a to qualify for a blown class (in bikes, at least) the blower had to demonstrably provide in increase in intake tract pressure?
By the way -- if you don't remember Fritz -- he does have a bit part in World's Fastest Indian so you can get a glimpse of the guy. I remember it well -- Nancy and I were watching the film in a theater (we don't go to movies often at all) and I saw him and shouted out "Hey -- there's Fritz Kott!!". Nancy elbowed me vigorously to shut me up. Not used to seeing folks I know in movies, I guess. :-D :-D
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Fritz was a revered Roadster racer, too. At El Mirage, he fielded (yes, a pun on words) the "World's Most Raced Roadster" (pickup). I don't know who kept track, but I'm certain he was the current champ at the time. Great guy, great family.
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great guy, that's for sure.
did not know him that well, but do miss him.
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It sure appears to me that there is only one planet gear path, whether ring gear or sun gear is fixed...
Okay, I'm red-faced; embarassed; all of that. As 'Interested' said, it does truly depend on the frame of reference. I had to view epicycloid and hypocycloid traces to get that through my thick skull.