Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: SteveM on October 22, 2012, 08:31:16 AM
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I've been using a 20 degree layback Kirkey "economy" seat for mock-up purposes in my '84 Rampage. I still haven't ordered my full containment seat, but will be ordering very soon. I'm going back and forth mentally over whether to buy a 20 degree seat, or a 10 degree seat. Let me lay out my line of thinking, and please weigh in with your thoughts.
I'm about 5-9, and 155-160 lbs, so not a really tall or thick guy. My proportions are pretty standard for my height and weight, not overly long in the legs or torso (I wear 32-32 jeans). As I said, I've been using the 20 degree seat for mockup. One of the things I want to achieve in the seat placement and angle is to optimize the ingress and egress for the car. In my mind, this means moving the seatback and head restraint as far rearward as practical. The pedal placement and steering wheel location are not yet fixed, so I have some flexibility with respect to these items.
By placing the seat as far back in the truck as possible, the largest portion of the window/door opening will be available. My concern with the 20 degree seat is that it "feels" very laid back when I'm sitting in the truck. I can overcome this by raising the seat, particularly the back part of the seat. The end result of moving the seat around to where it "feels" more proper, is that the seatback ends up moving more towards 10 degrees, and away from 20 (it ends up in the middle somewhere).
Is it better to use a 20 degree seat and tilt it "up" towards 10 degrees, or to use a 10 degree seat and lean it "back" towards 20 degrees? Since 15 degree seats are not common, and I'm not looking to spend more money for something custom, I'd prefer to use one of the standard offerings.
If you would be willing to share your setup and thoughts on this matter, it would be greatly appreciated.
Steve.
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If you can, make it so you can adjust the harness points and seat height. We had the cage bought off, tech'd+raced with no problem, then later were told we had to move everything. We were "per rulebook".
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Here's a pic of the truck as it's currently configured. The seat is not attached, it's just sitting there, with the front lip of the seat resting against the "crossmember" for the seat support bars. The rear of the seat is resting against the shoulder bar in these pics.
This is not the seat that I'll use when the truck is done. I know it will have to move forward a bit, in order to provide mounting points for the rear of the seat and the belts to wrap around the shoulder bar.
JustaRacer - what did you have to move? I only want to do this once.
Steve.
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Steve,
The only thing I can add is that you need to do what "feels" right for you.
Just make sure that you can reach all controls when you are suited up and belted in.
Here are some additional pics I just snapped to show you what my 20* Kirkey looks like in my Rampage.
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4071.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4070.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4069.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4068.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4067.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4066.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4065.jpg)
The placement and 20* degree angle is perfect for my 6'3" 235ish lump (might be more after the State Fair last week.....LOL).
Gregg
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Steve,
I don't know if it is just an optical illusion but your economy seat does seem to be more laid back than mine.
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr44/Jetmugg/Dodge%20Rampage/20degreeKirkey.jpg)
As I posted in your build diary, I "think" it is a 20*. I'll see if I can dig up my receipt from Speedway motors and let you know.
I wonder if the seat support tubes on mine are at a different angle than yours?
Gregg
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I would go for the 10 with tilt back I think you will prefer the "butt bucket" when you are strapped hard in
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More pics from the passenger side:
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4075.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4074.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4072.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4073.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Gregg%20Adams%20Land%20Speed%20Rampage/IMG_4076.jpg)
Gregg
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Thanks a lot, Gregg. Your seat definitely appears to be more upright than my mock-up seat. I think some of it is due to the length of the flat portion of the seat bottom (the front portion of your seat bottom is raised up), and some due to where the bend is located in the back section (the transition from angled to vertical is lower on your seat).
It's tough to determine angles from those photos alone, but I would say that yours is probably 20 degrees from the lowest part of the seat bottom, to the lower portion of the back support.
Based on those photos, the angles of your seat look more "correct" than my mock-up seat.
Steve.
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Steve,
I was wrong by 2* on my seat.
Mine is their 17" 68 Series -18 Degree Layback Containment Seat
http://kirkeyracing.com/index.php?link=browse&code=Series68
Gregg
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Great information, Gregg, and the link to the shop drawing is extremely helpful. I'm going to see if I can get an eqrivalent drawing from UltraShield.
Steve.
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Great information, Gregg, and the link to the shop drawing is extremely helpful. I'm going to see if I can get an eqrivalent drawing from UltraShield.
Steve.
Call Joe Timney at Delaware Chassis Works and he may be able to help.....302-378-3013.
Gregg
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Ultrashield, 10 degree, large ass size. :-D
I like to sit more upright.
Call Joe!
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Just got off the phone with him a little while ago - Joe is an extremely knowledgeable guy, and shared a lot of that knowledge with me this morning.
Steve.
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Just got off the phone with him a little while ago - Joe is an extremely knowledgeable guy, and shared a lot of that knowledge with me this morning.
Steve.
Yep, Really good guy and knows his stuff. I have pestered him many times at the track, called him a few times and been to his shop once.
So what was his opinion on your seat, 10 or 20 degree?
Gregg
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After talking through the logic behind the decision, I have purchased a 20 degree Ultrashield VS Halo seat with the SCTA-legal head restraints.
The plan is to move the seat back in the cab of the truck as far as practical, which will provide for the largest possible window opening for ingress/egress, then adjust the position of the steering wheel, pedals, and other controls accordingly.
I also painted the Rampage overnight, although it's an amateurish job, as shown in my avatar. :-D :roll:
Steve
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Steve,
Sounds like a good plan to me.
I think you will be as happy with the 20* seat as I am with mine. It does seem to give more room for ingress / egress, even with my homemade left head restraint. Remember, the 4" steering wheel extension helps with additional room.
Also, make sure you get a good quality splined quick disconnect for the steering wheel as hex was WAY TO SLOPPY for my liking. Mine is a Woodward and is SFI approved.
I really like the paint job.....Looks really COOL. See my reply in your Build Diary.
Gregg