Landracing Forum
El Mirage => El Mirage General Chat => Topic started by: Glen on October 20, 2012, 12:48:11 PM
-
I know it's early but any results yet, wishing I was there :cheers:
-
Glen,
Your a day early.
Tom G.
-
Darn. looked at the wrong calendar, well maybe I'll go next
week.Month
-
any results from the lake yet.
-
Dan Chilson crashed in the lights at Elmo today. Said he was talking and banged up. They had to air flight him to hospital for further tests. Keep him in your thoughts and prayers. Dan is a member of the gear Grinder club.
-
Update on Dan Chilson, broken ribs and a collapsed lung, said the Hans devise probably saved his life. Get well soon Dan.
-
Thoughts out to Dan.
Time left me a message and it sounds like the Unibody ran a 152! :cheers:
-
i heard that a can am spyder ran 180mph at the meet today. can anyone confirm that.
-
I saw the spyder there but didn't hear any speed. I was more than happy with my sidecar. Ran 130.
-
What car is Dans? I hope for a speedy and complete recovery for him.
-
It was a water cooled VW blue lakester, has been over 200 mph. Quality built car. Dan and his dad Bob have both driven the car. Dan will be sore and down for a while with the broken ribs.
-
Ed van scoy got a record b/gt 208 , fabian valdez got in the two club with the young valdez fogladini rear engine modified roadster at 236 I believe
-
i heard that a can am spyder ran 180mph at the meet today. can anyone confirm that.
Ha, where'd you hear that? The guy was a rookie and made one run.... at 60 mph I think.
BTW we barely made it into the second round, went on wind hold for what seemed like about two hours, and then the meet was called. Ugh f'ing wind.
-
Nathan i got my info from a friend whose son was at the lake today and told his dad that the spyder went that fast. I had a feeling that the info was incorrect. Does the scta have a class for the spyder or was he running time only.
-
Nope, no class; time only. Rider said he's had it up to 145 before.
-
ahhh I know about those MC factory speedooos :-D
Congrats to Ed B/GT
-
ahhh I know about those MC factory speedooos :-D
Congrats to Ed B/GT
Yup, ask any kid on a crotch rocket and he'll tell you he had it up to 200! :roll:
-
??Why do they asign us A starting lineup number?? I was in the 2nd group (#58), I went to the line in round 2 after they called the 1st group and "WHAT A KLUSTER F**k!!" The pre stage officials said the gave up because everyone was just snaking in. I saw the mess and packed up and went home. Good thing I didnt wait beacause it sounds like they didnt get to run. If they are going to make it a free for all they should have announced it like they have in the past. Im not a snake, I follow the rules that the SCTA put in to place, but I guess some dont. Anyways, we had a great time and ran our all time fastest in round 1. thanks for listening, sorry for the rant, see you guys in Nov.
-
Probably the same reason they took away the CB at Bonneville.
-
??Why do they asign us A starting lineup number?? I was in the 2nd group (#58), I went to the line in round 2 after they called the 1st group and "WHAT A KLUSTER F**k!!" The pre stage officials said the gave up because everyone was just snaking in. I saw the mess and packed up and went home. Good thing I didnt wait beacause it sounds like they didnt get to run. If they are going to make it a free for all they should have announced it like they have in the past. Im not a snake, I follow the rules that the SCTA put in to place, but I guess some dont. Anyways, we had a great time and ran our all time fastest in round 1. thanks for listening, sorry for the rant, see you guys in Nov.
According to the El Mirage procedures:
Pre-Staging Operations and Assignments
If your entry isn’t pre-staged in the correct number order in your group, you may run at the back of
your number group. If a later sequence group has finished pre-staging and is starting to move ahead
into the staging lanes, you will stage at the end of the group. You may trade your starting positions in
your number group.
Okay, my interpretation:
Let's say your starting position is 60. 50-75 are called to pre-stage and when you get there 50-70 are already there. From the way it sounds, you can either A) line up as you show up or B) "trade positions" within your number group to be in correct (or nearly correct) starting position order. The one thing you can't do as 60 in line is show up when 75-100 is about to leave pre-stage and move to staging/starting lanes and jump to the front because you have a lower starting position. So it sounds like if you show up late after your group has already been moved to the staging/starting lanes then you go to the back.
I'll admit, some racers act like they're out for blood when it comes times for second round to pre-stage. This is especially true on weekends like this last race because there was a good chance the meet would be called early. There are also those who camp out (not literally camp but hook up race vehicle to support vehicle and then tow over to pre-stage area and sit and wait) near pre-stage so they can jump in as soon as their number group is called. If their number is higher up in the number group, anyone who shows up after them with a lower starting position is allowed to jump in ahead of them (if my above interpretation is correct) so long as their number group is still in pre-stage. Then there are those who show up late with a low position number with the expectation that they can just jump in which I guess they can. Then there are those who show up waaaay late and want to try and by-pass pre-stage completely and try to jump into the regular staging/starting lanes which looks to be a no-no.
The pre-stage workers have my sympathy.
-
pre stage is always a cluster.... the club that runs it has a vague clue as to its operations.... Lance you can always expect 2nd round to be a free for all... yesterday they called 1 to 50 for second round and the lady blatantly allowed a 60 number to push forward but kicked my#4 to the back of the line.... i thought the older you get the better you should be with numbers....
-
SORRY GUYS, I DONT WANT TO SOUND LIKE A WHINER? I rode my scooter up to check pre stage and the cars were entering from all directions and the line was way past the pre stage booth. I went to the pre stage officials (my club members kent :-o) and they said everyone just barged in and they quit. I started looking at numers and I saw a variety from 60 to 204 all mixed and matched. In the past they would call "everyone who still wants to run to staging" but this was usually after 3rd or 4th round. I know it was getting late due to the accident but I wanted another round also. I run consistantly (slow) to try and get a decent starting position but I guess these people deserve it more? In the future I will become one of these "snakes" and if anyone has a problem with me I'll tell them Nathan said I could :cheers:. Karma, everyone snaked and then they spent their time waiting and didnt get to run. We did get one good run in that we were extremely happy with due to our new Airtech aero kit, so it was a good day.
-
Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard there were only 75 entries.
-
Right, there may have only been 75 entries but the starting line positions will range from one to however many unique entries there have been over the accumulation of the entire season. If there have been 500 different entries run during the season then there will be 500 different starting line positions (1-500). If only 10 of those 500 entries show up to the October meet, those 10 vehicles will have starting positions ranging from 1-500.
Or at least I think that's what you're gettin' at Kevin. Disregard my comment if you're not. :-D
-
Way to go Ed :cheers:
-
We were in line early. I was polite and (wrong I suppose) to let some of the lower numbers in front of me when I was there very early since I had an aborted run. I respected their numbers. However, a few others did not, and just moved right ahead of others. In fact there was someone with 100+ number telling us to get out of the way so they could go into the 2oo mph lane. We moved out of the way and were chastised. Now because we were polite and let the lower numbers ahead of us, even though they arrived in line later than us, we did not get to run a second round. It was critical for us to get a decent run in. Some numbers that were 10 or more behind us scooted in and ran the second pass. We sat on the starting line for 1.5 hours or so waiting. Great political move by some. Helped some of their friends out and hurt others in the standings. I have never been yelled at by the staging people before, and after I explained they did not make any corrections. Other racers were out right rude. Sad day indeed in my time at El Mirage. My season is over, yes due to our fault and by some politics of others. The pre stage is a cluster F, everyone has their own understanding of what is right and wrong. The lady running it was out right RUDE, and Mean. Print out a procedures guide for staging and line ups for round 2. Right now nobody knows. When the pressure is on, the assholes prevail.
-
Roadster swap, I too have dealt with trying to make a second pass at el mirage. In our car club lsr, we give them on entry to thr club our constitution and the el mirage procedures. btw the 200mph line has nothing to do with the other lanes based what is written in the procedures. Anne lindsley in my opinion is awesome, stern when necessary, and when I had a question about staging she was very nice. I have no problem with purple voicing there opinion on this site but if you want action you ned to go to your club meeting or the scta reps meeting and make your voice heard.
-
yeah I know, I know, Venting does not help. Makes me look bad. I have had good experiences with staging. This was just a ragged out of control deal. The rules are not clear. The racers abuse their prestige or authority. I can say that I will continue to be myself and be respectful. I have enjoyed this attitude with many others at events for years. This weekend, felt like any other venue. I am disappointed. I guess I wrongly expected more from people stupid enough to enjoy the dirt and salt.
-
In my opinion you have every right to be upset, you did the right thing. I was trying to say maybe you and your club can come up with a way to enforce the procedures. If you dont like how something is going get involved.
-
Have your clubs work out a better way and have your reps take it to the board and submit it in writing.
-
Floley, Phelps, Kilger I/GCC. First time out with new car.
http://youtu.be/Z-Da8ZxC0yg
-
This was sent to me by another member in a PM I think it could work, we have plenty of room? And I cleaned it up a little to protect others :-o :-o
What some other forms of racing do is have multiple lanes, marked at the entrance and front:
pre stage lanes
1) 1-24 100-124
2) 25-49 125-149
3) 50-74 150-174
4) 75-99 175-up
when 1-24 is empty 100-124 can fill the gap. It could be first come as long as your in the right line in the right round.
You can get into your lane whenever you feel like to. But you must be in your correct lane. Anyone can tell the run status by which lane is low. No need to freakin guess
-
??Why do they asign us A starting lineup number?? I was in the 2nd group (#58), I went to the line in round 2 after they called the 1st group and "WHAT A KLUSTER F**k!!" The pre stage officials said the gave up because everyone was just snaking in. I saw the mess and packed up and went home. Good thing I didnt wait beacause it sounds like they didnt get to run. If they are going to make it a free for all they should have announced it like they have in the past. Im not a snake, I follow the rules that the SCTA put in to place, but I guess some dont. Anyways, we had a great time and ran our all time fastest in round 1. thanks for listening, sorry for the rant, see you guys in Nov.
I never stopped at Pre Stage to see what was going on, but if Pre Stage was like you say, this really needs to be brought up at the SCTA meeting this Friday night. Members who follow the rules don't need this kind of behavior from fellow members who don't. Why wasn't the Race Director called to correct the situation?
Tom G.
-
This was sent to me by another member in a PM I think it could work, we have plenty of room? And I cleaned it up a little to protect others :-o :-o
What some other forms of racing do is have multiple lanes, marked at the entrance and front:
pre stage lanes
1) 1-24 100-124
2) 25-49 125-149
3) 50-74 150-174
4) 75-99 175-up
when 1-24 is empty 100-124 can fill the gap. It could be first come as long as your in the right line in the right round.
You can get into your lane whenever you feel like to. But you must be in your correct lane. Anyone can tell the run status by which lane is low. No need to freakin guess
What about the 200mph lane...?
-
other video of new comp coupe
http://youtu.be/r5cGyadv9BU
-
Sounds simple but the kings and queens will want to pick their lanes! It would be Un-American to tell them where to go. But they can tell others where to go and where to put it all the time. Its the American way. Lets have a lottery system for each round. The top 10 are the exception. If they dont want to run early they join the pool. Computer generated based upon entry numbers. Random selection. No hands from friends and supporters involved.
Oh and another thing..........Lets make rules for when to call/END an event. Say a cross wind of so many degrees, at such and such a MPH. etc..........NOT from listening to a competitor saying how bad the conditions are because they just had a hard time making it down the track. What a hero! Now I am sure I will be told how much thought and deliberation went into the decision to call the event. Everyone licked their fingers at the same time and held it up in the air and it was unanimous. These decisions are not made lightly etc. blah blah blah. I feel so much safer now. Prove to me that the conditions were worse at the end of the day than the middle of the day. Show me. Prove it. I don't believe it. I am done. good night this is my last I am sure you are all thankful. Think about it.
-
There should be NO 200 mph lane. What about a 50 mph lane? What makes a 200 mph lane more important than the person needing to go 50mph? Big fat cars destroy tracks. Not little and light and underpowered. Make all the track destroying cars use the same lane and they can drive in each of their own trenches. They would have to stay off the more environmentally sensitive lanes for the "slower" less "important" vehicles.
I guess i lied.
-
There should be NO 200 mph lane. What about a 50 mph lane? What makes a 200 mph lane more important than the person needing to go 50mph? Big fat cars destroy tracks. Not little and light and underpowered. Make all the track destroying cars use the same lane and they can drive in each of their own trenches. They would have to stay off the more environmentally sensitive lanes for the "slower" less "important" vehicles.
I guess i lied.
Tim,
Racers and spectators don't drive hundreds or thousands of miles to come watch vehicles running slower than they did on the way to the event. :roll:
It's call Land SPEED Racing not low speed racers...the money, attendance, support is for faster vehicles..ever been to an NHRA event and watch the fans walk away when the top fuel funny cars and top fuel dragsters are running?...no...they run to the stands to watch 300+mph speeds
I have witnessed slower vehicles running and setting more records when the track was in bad shape than those that run 200 plus. I am 100 percent positive that more racers have lost their lives in pursuit of records over 200 mph than those running at lower speeds.. Ask Jack :cry:
I was the last person to run this weekend at El Mirage, my time slip shows a 26 mph wind/gust..I notified one of the SCTA officials however they had already put the course on hold due to wind.
-
There should be NO 200 mph lane. What about a 50 mph lane? What makes a 200 mph lane more important than the person needing to go 50mph? Big fat cars destroy tracks. Not little and light and underpowered. Make all the track destroying cars use the same lane and they can drive in each of their own trenches. They would have to stay off the more environmentally sensitive lanes for the "slower" less "important" vehicles.
I guess i lied.
Roadsterswap... The 200 mph lane was taken away several years ago, around 1997'' then after watching
Scotty's Muffler's roadster attempting to drive thru the marbles and in the interrest of safety it was reinstated.
A light under powered car is a hell of a lot easier and safer to drive on a loose track than a high hp car.
Every one talks about how the high hp cars tear up the track but I have NEVER seen any officials follow a fast car and study the conditions.
The one chance I had was when on course duty the Swain Bros-Helash-and Hoover [still record holder 280.552
1994] veared off course hid a cone and shut off.
There was track marks about 4'' wide the track was NOT torn up from tire spin BUT there was pieces of dirt
[ called marbles, but more pea size] cast in its wake as if someone was sowing seed.
This is caused by the race cars vacuuming up dirt up from the cracks from the polygon surface and can be caused by slow or fast cars. Once this happens cars can start to spin and tear up the track, and sometimes the track starts out bad [ mostly bad from lack of a good wet winter lately]
If the 200 lane is outlawed, nobody in there right mind would attemp to go fast at El Mirage.
We will not run the 222 Camaro unless there is a tight track and out of the 200 mile lane.
If there is no 200 mile lane there is no use in us [and others] belonging to the SCTA or a club.
JL222
P.S. how was the course Sunday?
-
JL222
P.S. how was the course Sunday?
I'm one of the very slow runners. Usually the timer stands at the lights and hands me my timing slip as I cruise by. Plus I get a closer look at the course than most. The course on Sunday was amazing. I ran late in the first round and it was still in great condition. I tend to run up the right side and for the past few years I spend my time looking for good dirt or running between car tracks in an effort to find good dirt. But yesterday the dirt was terrific.
But I am curious to know why you would stop racing if there was no 200 line?
-
Course was a bit Green however good..Pat Womack smoked me in the same class we were both in and he got top time for the bikes! :cheers:
My bikes are 200 lane legal in three engine classes and also in faired and unfaired, we are only running this season to get a good lane position (run number) for next season...we would not have a change of running 250+ mph without a good running position that we have earned in the previous season. Slower running cars and bikes running under 175 can run very close to the same speeds on a mediocore course versus the faster bikes and cars that we love to watch making phenominal top speed runs.
J
-
JL222
P.S. how was the course Sunday?
I'm one of the very slow runners. Usually the timer stands at the lights and hands me my timing slip as I cruise by. Plus I get a closer look at the course than most. The course on Sunday was amazing. I ran late in the first round and it was still in great condition. I tend to run up the right side and for the past few years I spend my time looking for good dirt or running between car tracks in an effort to find good dirt. But yesterday the dirt was terrific.
But I am curious to know why you would stop racing if there was no 200 line?
Nortonist... The 222 Camaro has held the AA blown gas altered record ''229+'' since 1990 when the tracks were good :-D
We now put out 800-1000 hp more, when we hit the marbles [ Troy drives at El Mifage''] the car spins the tires
and wants to spin out We have one video and data logging were Troy had a speed of 152 mph in 10.5 sec, as soon as he hit the marbles it broke loose and started to spin but thanks to quick reflexes and busy steering he saved it.
Starting at the back of the pack with a car like this would be a complete waste of time and money for me and others.
75 entries, the fast guys are staying away now because of conditions, take away the 200 mile lane and it will be even less.
JL222
-
Tim,
Racers and spectators don't drive hundreds or thousands of miles to come watch vehicles running slower than they did on the way to the event. :roll:
It's call Land SPEED Racing not low speed racers...the money, attendance, support is for faster vehicles..ever been to an NHRA event and watch the fans walk away when the top fuel funny cars and top fuel dragsters are running?...no...they run to the stands to watch 300+mph speeds
I have witnessed slower vehicles running and setting more records when the track was in bad shape than those that run 200 plus. I am 100 percent positive that more racers have lost their lives in pursuit of records over 200 mph than those running at lower speeds.. Ask Jack :cry:
I was the last person to run this weekend at El Mirage, my time slip shows a 26 mph wind/gust..I notified one of the SCTA officials however they had already put the course on hold due to wind.
[/quote]
John,
First of all you are delusional if you think this is a spectator sport. If it was, there would be TV coverage and big sponsorship, and decals, and girls, and kids, and toys, and condos and bleachers and beer vendors and peanuts and popcorn and more Speed Demons and less "slow guys" and rules and rules and rules and...and and....... If you think people drive, however far, to just watch fast cars, you have missed many elements of our culture. If this were true then the Cook event would be HUGE! ALL the fast cars and big boys and girls with there toys. In fact it is just the opposite. People come to experience the culture and the life and the commitment. This is not JUST about speed. Many people do NOT care how fast the rich guy goes in his million dollar car or motorcycle. The hero is not always the fast guy (with the exception of the Markley Bros, Ronnie Benham, Burklands and Al Teague);) The majority of those who come to spectate, come to see the people who built their cars on their own, who are out there having fun and who are accomplishing things with their own determination, passion and will power. There was more interest in the little Subaru 600 that was hand built with love and care by an individual than there was in the biggest fastest roadster or turbo charged factory store bought motorcycle.
They did not care that it went only 50 mph, they were excited it was there. It was the accomplishment of one individual fulfilling a dream, rather than a rich guy buying his ride. The speed is not the only story to this game nor will it ever be. Go to the all you can eat crab feed, and ask the person sitting across from you, who you have never met, if they know what the 2 club or 3 chapter is or even if they heard of Bonneville, before the Worlds Fastest Indian, and most will just ask you to pass a napkin!? 2 club? 3 chapter, what the f. Legends in our own minds is what we are.
Are you also saying that a care like Mcleash's spitfire that is KILLING the points race is hurting our spectators and sponsor ship potential because they are not blown top fuel 6000lb vehicles that the all knowing, and all seeing crowds would prefer to watch? Ban slow cars and modify the points chase rules so that only the fast cars can win? Gawd forbid that a Crosly or a Bantam, or a Subaru or a Spitfire that cannot go over 200 mph is the season champion for the SCTA! There goes the price of my condo in Adelanto!
The NHRA is not the SCTA. Again the people at our events run to the cars an individual built. Something with personality and creativity and function. Not something fast and bought. Those things have their place but if you think SCTA should be like the NHRA well good luck with that one. I hope you have a lot of fun. I would love to see a blown Hemi in your Suzuki.
Your comment about cars getting records on poor tracks does not make it right to keep the tracks in poor condition from other destructive sources. I have also seen cars and bikes getting records on nice smooth tracks. NO 200 lane in the dirt. Why? Because you earn the right? I Don't get it.
Your reference to more people dying trying to go over 200 and reference to a personal friend and team member is very out of line. It is not part of the conversation. Please stop exploiting your knowledge and personal experience of that situation in an attempt to make a point.
You made a run with a cross wind and survived. You notified the officials. WHOEVER IT MAY BE listened to you. They even announced what a big hero you were by keeping all of the racers safe. "Always looking out for his fellow racers". So my point is, there should be rules as to when to call an event. Not a random speculation and report. The last thing a race committee should do, is listen to competitors about how to run an event or when to end an event. These contingencies should be planned in advance by the race directors.
I am sure the other timing slips reported wind extremes. As far as I know, the slips do not differentiate between gust or constant wind. You may have felt it on the bike with a big side exposure as most bike guys say how sensitive they are to winds, and many, as of course you know better than anyone, or most, will not ride if it is too windy and they have there own personal preferences when to run or not based on the wind velocity and angle.
So what a guy in the dirt may have experienced is mistrust and miscommunication between racers, the race board and the intentions and politics of an event. I am glad to be an American and express myself no matter how right or wrong I am, in my opinion and of course in the eyes of others! "Viva La Evolution".
-
"If the 200 lane is outlawed, nobody in there right mind would attemp to go fast at El Mirage." Have to love that thought. How do you think you got to run in that lane? You ran in the other lanes to get there.......
"We will not run the 222 Camaro unless there is a tight track and out of the 200 mile lane.
If there is no 200 mile lane there is no use in us [and others] belonging to the SCTA or a club."
If there were no SCTA you would not be driving your car in the dirt.
So if your lane is so much safer, and I have my vehicle geared up for 200, then I should get to go in that lane right? IT is the only safe spot on the course, and our Job number one in the SCTA is safety, right?
Every one is using all parts of the course after the few hundred feet after push off. Just watch a run. Noonan may start on the Left side but he will pick the part of the course he thinks is smoother. I have seen many vehicles and bikes start on the left and run down the right side of the course, or the middle.
Look at the track after any blown heavy high horse power car has run and compare it to a track made by a light vehicle. You dont need an official to "See" the problem. Denial is a great survival tool for awhile.
Why should a person who is number 20 in points, who has a history of going 200, and has not run 200 all season, get to run in the "2" lane. They get to jump ahead of the line of others who actually have earned a better starting position.
As I recall it was noted in the rule book or somewhere as the lane for "streamliners" not 200 mph vehicles.
Now I am done. I hate this crap.
-
It's not the "200 mph lane" it's "Lane 1" for vehicles running 200+ mph.
El Mirage results never give every run. I looked at the May results. 117 entries, 117 runs listed. 12 over 200. That gives them an advantage of a shorter line and running before someone in the other lane with a lower run number.
Since that is inherently unfair, take it to the SCTA board and have them release vehicles in Lane 1 based on the clearly written run number on the push truck windshield.
This rant got side tracked to the 200 mph vehicles. The real problem is control at the entrance to the staging lanes.
Bark at the SCTA board and come up with a better method of control, or enforce the existing rules. And control is the problem.
3. Line Stewards
To assist the line steward and orderly lineup by participants, all race vehicles shall indicate their start
position number either on the race vehicle or push vehicle windshield. This is best done using a white
shoe polish which is available at the registration trailer. Please be sure to draw a circle around the start
number. Push vehicles should also have race vehicle number indicated on windshield.
4. Position and Placement Disputes
All such disputes will be resolved as they occur by the Starting Line Stewards.
Your problem is the line stewards are not doing their job. You raced to get that low run number, bitch about it.
-
I would be very cautious when presenting the SCTA with your well thought out plan as to how the line steward, line ups and fair lane distribution plan will work.
I did and ended up as the Impound guy.
DW
-
other video of new comp coupe
http://youtu.be/r5cGyadv9BU
Neat car! I looked through all of the clips.
-
ya thanks need to work on carbs, other than that car went like it should, had a good time. car was built at our shop over 5+ years
-
WOW, What a sh*t storm I started, SORRY?.
John, the 200mph and rookies would still have your own lanes, the 200 and rookie line isnt the problem. I know when Im getting ready to make my 50mph run I dont want to be behind a 200mph fuel car that takes 30 minutes to get started and to temp, I want them in their own line. We are all there for the same reason, we all have lots of time and money invested into getting there and running, the line-up niumbers are earned not given but some racers feel they have the right to snake others because they have "more" time or money invested. I know the starters have their hands full but if they notice #104 (these #s are posted on bright orange paper with bold print) when we're running 1-25 they should make an example and send them to the back of the round? (NATE)
Once again sorry for starting this but I was disapointed in the disorganization at the starting line in round 2.
I JUST WANNA GO FAST!!!
This was sent to me by another member in a PM I think it could work, we have plenty of room? And I cleaned it up a little to protect others :-o :-o
What some other forms of racing do is have multiple lanes, marked at the entrance and front:
pre stage lanes
1) 1-24 100-124
2) 25-49 125-149
3) 50-74 150-174
4) 75-99 175-up
when 1-24 is empty 100-124 can fill the gap. It could be first come as long as your in the right line in the right round.
You can get into your lane whenever you feel like to. But you must be in your correct lane. Anyone can tell the run status by which lane is low. No need to freakin guess
What about the 200mph lane...?
-
Roadsterswap...anyone reading your post would see the only person delusional is you.
JL222
-
It would be nice if roadsterswap would use his real name so we would know who he is and what his background in LSR is.With only 56 posts he is new or changed hi identity to stir more crap up. :cheers:
-
Roadsterswap...anyone reading your post would see the only person delusional is you.
JL222
I feel had Tim made a pass down the track at 165.746 mph he would be fine and still be in the SCTA points chase and that is possibly where some of his frustration is coming from.
Glen..Tim Cunha riding the 8080 streamliner sidecar with Jack Costella running for the points championship.. :cheers:
Rodney King said it best... :-o
-
Fadede, that #104 might have not made a pass yet. I've had those situations with our car, and I always let them right through. if someone sneaks up I would say something, but I dont have to deal with that anymore we run out of the 200mph lane 1 :evil:
-
I am glad to be an American and express myself no matter how right or wrong I am, in my opinion and of course in the eyes of others!
Tim, I couldn't agree with you more on most your points (El Mirage racing is NOT a spectator sport, big heavy high horsepower cars do cause course damage, there's more to LSR than just "speed"...) but you are entirely incorrect about one point. Noonan's wind feedback was not the deciding factor in going onto a wind hold. What you don't know (and neither would anyone else I guess) is that I had a car ready and running and about to leave the starting line when the tower came back to me (I'm a starter) and said to hold because of wind gusts. The tower does monitor and record wind speed/direction so they can see trends and when you have gusts combined with an upwards trending wind speed, they go on hold.
This weekend was especially tough because of the accident. Everyone is mad because we got hung up on a wind hold but what if there are been another accident if we had continued to run? What is someone died? Then it'd be nothing but "the SCTA is irresponsible... the SCTA should have never let that happen.... blame the SCTA..." Well, they rightfully decided to side with safety and hold. If there hadn't had been an accident I'm willing to bet we would have stayed running but there was no way there were going to let there be TWO accidents in one event especially when high wind speeds have been known to cause accidents.
FWIW, when it gets marginally close to going on wind hold, we'll sometimes ask the competitor if they feel comfortable running in the wind. Some don't care and some are like "hell no, I'd rather sit and wait". Case in point, a couple of months back we went on wind hold but then decided to let competitors run if they felt safe/comfortable. Our own Stan Back had at first decided to wait but then decided to go for it and guess what? He spun! When that happens you can't help but feel a little stupid and then think, "gee, maybe we should have waited...".
And don't worry about JL222. Calling you dillusional is his go-to tactic when he runs out of defensible thoughts.
-
Oh and another thing people probably don't realize... we have no line stewards!! None! Pre-stage is a mess and one of the biggest problems is that they usually pack up and leave after the first round ends and then second round is a free for all. And there's nothing like a free for all where everyone is vying for the best spot in line to really bring out the asshole in someone. When I was a kid I used to work as a line steward at Speed Week and I seriously had people get in my face and scream at me when I would ask them to move up or tell them that I'm going to have to bring someone around them because they're holding up the line. Like I said, some competitors act like they're out for blood and trying to manage that circus is not a fun job.
The other problem is that being a line steward is a shitty job that no one wants to do so guess what? No one does it! Until someone steps up and volunteers to do it I don't imagine its every going to get any better. It's times like these that I miss having Moose out there keeping things squared away.
-
How fast did that electric bike go? It was over 170mph, but not sure. Very impressive. Sure, it didn't go 200, but that's just the first gen of these kinds of entries. Expect 500+ HP electric bikes in the next decade.
-
The Blue and White electric bike went 170 and change..wrong gearing I was told...
-
Wasn't to many years ago that racers were taking their vehicles to the lake bed on the Wednesday before the event to get a good starting position. They left them in line with no security to look over them. Thats why a change was made to earn a staring spot by points earned, As I recall it was Les Liggett that proposed this change and it has worked pretty well. There will always be a person trying to bypass the system. The volunteers are just that and it don't take much crap for them to walk away.
-
Ha! I totally remember that! There was always this one particular white lakester with red scallops that was ALWAYS first in line. Think it was the early 90's when this was still going on.
-
WOW, What a sh*t storm I started, SORRY?.
Nah, not really a shit storm. It's a problem and it needs to be taken care of.
I know the starters have their hands full but if they notice #104 (these #s are posted on bright orange paper with bold print) when we're running 1-25 they should make an example and send them to the back of the round? (NATE)
Lance, first a question then a comment. Question: how are they announcing 2nd round? Are they calling 1-25 or 1-50 or 1-100 or all competitors or what? In months past I've heard them call a second round and they either don't specify a number group or there's no one at pre-stage to control incoming vehicles so everyone comes to staging/starting in whatever order they showed up in. Comment: as a Jr. Starter, I really think I'd be leaving the "send backs" to either the Sr. Starter or a higher level official. I don't get paid enough to catch heat. :-P
-
Nate it depends on how many show, ussually its 1-25, 26-50 etc, Sunday they called 1-50, 51-100, and sometimes after 3 or 4 rounds they call everyoneone who still want to run, but never in round 2, and they dont always announce it, we'll either chime in on the cb and ask or ride up and ask. This is what happened Sunday, I rode up after they called 1-50 to pre stage and it looked like a KFC drive thru in Compton. At that point even if they were running it would have been a 2 hr wait so I packed up and went home early and happy. We ran a blistering 87.4mph, our fastest ever! Plus by not running round 2 we still have a motor for Nov. Everything happens for a reason.
Lance, first a question then a comment. Question: how are they announcing 2nd round? Are they calling 1-25 or 1-50 or 1-100 or all competitors or what? In months past I've heard them call a second round and they either don't specify a number group or there's no one at pre-stage to control incoming vehicles so everyone comes to staging/starting in whatever order they showed up in. Comment: as a Jr. Starter, I really think I'd be leaving the "send backs" to either the Sr. Starter or a higher level official. I don't get paid enough to catch heat. :-P
[/quote]
-
Well, to everyone's glee, I've shut up for months. It's over.
Tim -- good to hear from you.
Months ago I proposed a partial solution to the g-f*ck that's lining up for first round. Lots of problems there, too. When you pay your registration, they check and anotate your line-up position. I said, why not give you the orange card then, rather than waiting 'til you get to the line-up tent. That way, in pre-stage, you could meld in wherever you belonged. Everyone would know your number and you would know theirs -- before you got to the tent and your group was released.
Everyone agreed (high and low) that was a great idea. But most stated that they didn't want to screw with Mable's(whoever's)'s authority, 'cause she was the boss of all this. And you should bring it up with her (as if that would work).
Maybe there's a problem there.
Stan Back
-
Roadsterswap (or Tim Cuhma) instead of shooting your mouth off why don't you spend all of the Nov race shadowing Billy Latin and really see what it takes to run an event (since you say your out of the championship)... Its easy to smack talk when you just realize the benefits of other peoples hard work.... go ahead, walk in one of the officials shoes for a meet.... Noonans 26mph cross wind was pretty bad azz im glad he had the talent to ride it and the brains to get off the throttle... After my crash at 217 due to a side wind i made Jim Jenson promise to never let me pull off with anything over 10mph cross, he hasn't and im glad he's my friend.... and honestly i'm surprised Jack would have let you run in Sundays conditions.....
I think the pre stage people are doing a great job compared to a few years back.... still room for improvement but im sure they would be open to suggestions and help.... they got first round pretty dialed but 2nd round has always been a "free for all"... in all fairness, when they called for 2nd round we went rite over and the lanes were already full with people waiting... we had #4 so we went up to the front, the lady said "we were late, they dont go by start number, only by groups of numbers and go to the back of the line" which we did.....
Good meet, im glad we went....
Support the SCTA by showing up, racing, or helping out.....
-
If you don't like how something is being ran, get involved. It might change your mind. I agree with kent.
-
I'm a bit hesitant to even dip the tip of my toe in this pool but Sunday was pretty frustrating for us as well. By the way, just to be out in the open here, My name is Jim Hoogerhyde and we were there with the "other" electric bike. We were frustrated to have tech put a 150mph limit on our first (and only) run but hey, we lost the log book and removed the frame sticker for a photo shoot so that's our own damn fault. Rules are rules and we didn't argue since we planned on taking it very easy anyway in those conditions. The bodywork on the bike is very sensitive to crosswinds and at Bonneville we won't run if it's much over 10mph. Our only run was at the end of round 1 and the slip showed 23mph WSW. We went through the lights on the brakes at 139mph and I could barely feel any crosswinds at all and certainly no gusting. But hey, it's only a small moment in time and I understand it shifts and it certainly was a 45 degree crosswind gusting while I was picking up cones.
That said, while I appreciate an official telling me they don't think the course conditions are safe for a bike like mine, it was always my decision whether to run or not. Had my bike not been faired or I was there in a slower car or bike I'd be pissed that I didn't get a second run. I feel a good solution is to put a standard in place like Tim suggested. Wind speed X crossing the course at an angle of X means we're on hold? That's fine with me.
Oh, and I agree that nice guys that follow the rules get screwed and sit at the back of the line every meet
-
Jim the 150 rule for new vehicles to ElMirage and 175 for new vehicles to Bonneville have been in place for a long time.... on a mile course the wind changes in speed and direction, how would you write a standard for changes... lots of people saying there should be a standard but none are volunteering and ideas of how to do it.....
-
I've been on both sides of "wind holds". At a November 2 day event several years ago I was suited up and strapped it 2 back from the starting line mid afternoon. Remained there for a couple of hours (sure glad it wasn't July!), anyway the racing was stopped. Sure had a nice starting point the next morning!
At Speedweek in 2006 we were on the starting line of the Short Course at about 10:00 AM and Bill Taylor mentioned that there was a little crosswind on the line but the top end appeared OK if we wanted to run. I did and got hit with about a 25 mile wind out of the South between the 2 and 3 mile mark. Did a 270 degree sightseeing tour. We were the last to run that day. I really felt sorry for all those racers waiting in lines for 6 or more hours until the racing was officially called.
Given the option I think most racers will decide such issues on the side of caution.
Tom
-
Roadsterswap...anyone reading your post would see the only person delusional is you.
JL222
-i think anyone using 222 on their camaro pretending to be a streamliner is delusional
:cheers:
-
Tail winds turn into cross winds when turning out. When I was chief timer the limit was 15 Mph for cars and always told the starter the wind speed and direction. On motor cycles I was always careful and at 8 to 10 mph cross winds I left it up to the starter and the rider. Problem is there is no written rule on winds conditions and what to shut down during this condition. I have set for hours at the lakes and Bonneville waiting for them to calm down for safe speeds to run under.
-
in all fairness... after their aborted pass Tim Cuhma and Jack Castella towed right back over to the pre stage lanes... they sat there a long, long, very long time.... im sure the pre stage people had to have seem them setting there... they should have been the first or one of the first people allowed to push up when allowed to, why they weren't is something the pre stage people should answer
-
Roadsterswap's pre-stage dilemma-"Computer generated based upon entry numbers. Random selection. No hands from friends and supporters involved." -When I race at EL MIRAGE,some day, will I find, that the first round when leaving pre-stage, be done nemerically or random? Then what about the second round, will it be numerical or random? :cry: :cry:
-
1st round is by starting number, 2nd round is by groups ie 1 to 50 then next group 51 to 100, 3rd round is anybody come on up
-
"1st round is by starting number, 2nd round is by groups ie 1 to 50 then next group 51 to 100, 3rd round is anybody come on up" I hope I can quote this!
Sounds like Rswap didn't understand that , and got wind blown for being nice and letting low numbers pass him up in the 2nd round. :roll:
-
I lied again. I said I was done. I am pretty much done but wanted to share a few other things. I was away from my computer while driving 5 hours picking up my Hyabusa motor so I can get in the 2 lane eventually! If you cant beat them, join them right?
I like what every one has said. Good information. This was a good discussion and strong feelings all around. For clarification, we did not go get back in line right away. We went to the pit and pulled the body off and swapped out the battery and that alone took us 45 minutes or so before we got back in line. Yes we were there earlier than most. There were only one or two cars ready for round two. So since I was there early should I have staked out my spot and when they opened the flood gates, or should have taken my lane? I was letting others with lower numbers than me go in front. I even told a few guys who had lower numbers to go in front of us even though they arrived about 30 minutes after us. What is the rule on round two? I would like to know if there is one.
I think I am going away with this knowledge:
1. The two lane is a privilege item. It is not a safety item. I am fine with that. You guys/girls earned it. (my understanding right or wrong). I hope that if the higher numbers do not get to come in until they are called for their round. I was getting pushed along by a person with a number greater than 100.
2. Staging needs to be worked on. I am still unclear about round two. It know it is a hard job. I actually am looking forward to being able to be involved with the events. I am just busy right now with many other things. I also live 7 hours away.
3. Yes I am delusional. In a good way. I think a heated discussion can get issues in the open and maybe lead to change and improvement. I may need to develop more tact, but oh well.
4. I love the SCTA and all that it does. The IT, is US. We make SCTA good or bad. The people involved are awesome, racers and volunteers.
5. There is a lot of unseen mental processing going on to decide when to call an event. I would still like to see some parameters. It seems that we have people with years of experience knowing good from bad. Take the rule book for example! We know when we cannot run on the lake bed if it is full of water. Why can't there be some factors for making a decision about shutting down an event? Wind speed, angles, gust averages etc. The data and experience are all there. Sailing events have these control items in place.
6. Change can be good and change can be difficult.
7. I don't care what anyone say's John Noonan is an all right guy. (I owed you that one), after the intro at the races )
Peace, be happy, have fun in the garage and see you in the dirt. ( I will be the one with the the beard and sunglasses and flack vest) Oh and I will be in a wheelchair. If anyone wants my phone number to discuss how I could have done things better or what I could do to help out, email me and I will get my number to you. Thanks for reading.
-
I see while I was writing some things were clarified. Thanks. Yes I am the idiot in round two. I ruined it for my hard working team.
-
I want to mention that Jack would never put me at risk. I will get the timing slip when we got a record, the last bike, the last round with heavy cross winds, torn up track etc., The timing slip has the wind speed and direction and post them tomorrow. This bike handles bad conditions very well, and safety is always our first concern. If there is ever any doubt, we will not run.
-
Very well said, I applaud you tim :cheers:
-
Good responses Tim.... experience comes with bumps and bruises but it also lets ya come back swinging....
kent
-
I see while I was writing some things were clarified. Thanks. Yes I am the idiot in round two. I ruined it for my hard working team.
Tim, you are a good guy and glad to call you a pal. :cheers:
Discussion is good.
-
Wasn't to many years ago that racers were taking their vehicles to the lake bed on the Wednesday before the event to get a good starting position. They left them in line with no security to look over them. Thats why a change was made to earn a staring spot by points earned, As I recall it was Les Liggett that proposed this change and it has worked pretty well. There will always be a person trying to bypass the system. The volunteers are just that and it don't take much crap for them to walk away.
Yea Glen, Roadsterswap was refering about the 222 car running in the regular lanes to get in the 200 lane.
There was no 200 lane in 1990 and as you pointed out racers were going out on Wendsday to get a good starting position. We could never leave that early, but would leave on Friday after work to get a decent starting
spot. That was pretty crazy and thats when they came up with points for starting position and I believe the 200
mph lane.
The courses were much better to start with in those days and held up better. Since then there are dairies that have been built and I have an idea that their wells for watering their alfalfa fields are pumping down the ground water. In the past a good rain would flood the lake and take a while to sink in, now it gets sucked up and the water has no time to smooth the lake.
The way the lineup is now [and going back to 1st come is a no] the 222 would have to start at the back without
a 200 lane. Which would be fine with roadsterswap who thinks its a car show instead of racing.
JL222
-
I dont know what you are talking about. I never mentioned anything about 222 or any numbers of any vehicles. You are confused. Wow why the insults? I don't get it. I never saw a car with 222 at the dirt this weekend.
-
Roadsterswap...anyone reading your post would see the only person delusional is you.
JL222
-i think anyone using 222 on their camaro pretending to be a streamliner is delusional
:cheers:
I don't know who posted about the 222 above. BUT when we 1st came to Bville in 1989 we needed a number
we knew nothing about the number system and we said how about 22? [because that was always Troys football number] answer no. 1-25 is an earned number, OK how about 222, yea that's OK. Didn't learn about the consecutive number streamliner bit untill later. Then noticed other non streamliner cars have consecutive numbers before us, like #333 a street roadster.
Not to delusional as we held top speed at Bville for two days a couple of years ago.
JL222
-
wow. Moving on.
-
I dont know what you are talking about. I never mentioned anything about 222 or any numbers of any vehicles. You are confused. Wow why the insults? I don't get it. I never saw a car with 222 at the dirt this weekend.
Read your own post #43, you make my point.
JL222
-
no point. pointless. i dont know what you are talking about. why dont you pm me and i will give you my phone number and you can help me understand.
-
Well, I guess it would be unrealistic to draw hard lines about when to call an event and I agree the officials have a very difficult job dealing with so many different factors and personalities at every event. At some motorcycle road racing events I've done when it rained we had a riders meeting and voted on whether to continue or not. Crew chiefs, team owners, significant others, etc... were not allowed to vote. Riders had the final say. Period. We are all big boys and girls here and I'd much rather see the drivers and riders make the decision to run or pack it up after the officials had given us all the information about conditions.
Before I go any further, maybe I should sit down and read the El Mirage handbook. :roll:
-
Roadsterswap...anyone reading your post would see the only person delusional is you.
JL222
-i think anyone using 222 on their camaro pretending to be a streamliner is delusional
:cheers:
I think this is the one who started the confusion, he didn't know how to quote and add his own text. Sounds like a newbe who doesn't know the history of our number and who would? Like JL222 said, when we got it we didn't know the difference. I guess the one who gave it to u's should have known. Anyway back to the rants. :-D
-
Theres more wind flying on this thread than the whole of last Sunday at El Mirage.
-
no point. pointless. i dont know what you are talking about. why dont you pm me and i will give you my phone number and you can help me understand.
Well you might figure it out in the morning when you sober up.
JL222
-
Tail winds turn into cross winds when turning out.
I kept hearing this over and over last weekend and at first I thought on yeah that makes sense but then I thought well wait a minute... you're slowed down to highway speeds by time you turn out. A 20-30 mph gust should not be able to make you spin out, fall over, or crash at 60 mph.
1st round is by starting number, 2nd round is by groups ie 1 to 50 then next group 51 to 100, 3rd round is anybody come on up
Kent, take a look at the excerpt from the procedures that I posted (post #19). I posted up my interpretation (which could be wrong - what do you think?) and the way I read it, you're supposed to get into running order sequence whenever you're in pre-stage so if you're a higher number, lower number vehicles that show up after you are allowed ahead of you. The other thing that I think is supposed to happen is that once a number group is released from pre-stage to go to staging/starting, a late arrival with a lower starting position does not get to go to the front of the line. If you show up after your run group has been released then you run at the back of the group that's currently in pre-stage.
First round is usually ran in groups of 25 (1-25, 25-50, 50-75, etc) as is second round but with bigger number breaks sometimes (1-50, 50-100, etc) and then yes, third round is usually run 'em if ya got 'em BUT, the pre-stage rules should still apply. Honestly it usually doesn't matter once we make it into third round because the number of vehicles that show up to run is cut in half but second round has consistently been a nightmare for the past couple years and I think it's because the pre-stage rules go right out the window. And for what it's worth the pre-stage folks have done a lot to improve things (I love that new sign system they came up with) but as anyone who was there this weekend could tell, round two is still out of control.
Not to delusional as we held top speed at Bville for two days a couple of years ago.
Every first vehicle down the track EVER has had the top time of the meet until a faster vehicle runs at some point but I guess you get glory where you find it.
-
Yea Nathan, to somebody like you, and your attitude [ and you know what I mean] it means nothing.
JL222
-
Nate... yes it would be nice if 2nd round was held to number sequence like 1st round, but they arnt.... like i said we had #4 and went to the front of the line before the rest of the vehicles were released to go forward and the lady said go to the back.... she did look at our paper on our windshield, we told her we were #4 and she said it dosent apply to 2nd round... so we did as told... i think Tim had a 10ish number and was waiting a long time.... we were in the pits and when we heard the call we went up to see a huge line..... i would like to know what the procedure actually is for 2nd round
-
Well, I guess it would be unrealistic to draw hard lines about when to call an event and I agree the officials have a very difficult job dealing with so many different factors and personalities at every event. At some motorcycle road racing events I've done when it rained we had a riders meeting and voted on whether to continue or not. Crew chiefs, team owners, significant others, etc... were not allowed to vote. Riders had the final say. Period. We are all big boys and girls here and I'd much rather see the drivers and riders make the decision to run or pack it up after the officials had given us all the information about conditions.
Before I go any further, maybe I should sit down and read the El Mirage handbook. :roll:
The drivers and riders and owners always have the option of not running. just because it's safe for a V4F/GR doesn't mean its safe for a B/BFS. As a big boy you should be able to make your own call
-
Rich----You are SO spot on "As a big boy you should be able to make your own call"
I will take that one step more---you SHOULD be expected to make the call for your car and "donkey"
I am a relative new comer I have about 70 miles at above 200 in special construction cars-- with a whole lot of trials and tribulations ---some are documented some not---this makes me a real low timer as B'ville goes.
But you HAVE to have the mindset of a pilot in command of your ship ---it is yours and yours alone to go when "THEY" say you can!!
I have gotten out of the car and pushed back twice --because several factors had caused me to become "unsettled" and not a proper "captain of my ship". wasn't me, the car, or my crew
Staging problems---the let Larry and Anne make the calls as to when to call for the next round: It doesn't help when others call for more problems when they are sorting out the ones there now!!!!
and give them some help and support---I am a "out of State GG" so to comply with my clubs requirement to "attend" club functions I have helped in staging several times over the years---It helps for them to have a big guy who does not mind ruffling feathers to help keep things straight. AS Glenn B pointed out communications is KEY!!
Oh by the way a lot of the marbles in the traps are caused by people getting on the brakes sooner and sooner untill--- I have seen folks get on the brakes way before the finish line
-
I recomend that we support the volenteers that control staging , its a thankless job and is something that we need to control line up. they could sure use some help there thats for sure. We have been runing mostly out of thr 2 line for many years without any problems with any of the other competition. Respect for starting line position goes along way. As far as the faster cars tearing up the track , we race on dirt people , the dirt tears up for many reasons , how about some research on the subject rather than pointing fingers. And as far as us "rich guys with bought equipment" , think again , we share the same spirit of the sport as any one of the other racers , build our own cars , engines and look for good prices on used stuff.
The 2 line is a huge safety factor for us , and a privelege for sure . we respect it and suport it!!
-
the pre stage volenteers do a great job, but when racers start entering the lanes from all directions they loose control of the situation, this is what happend Sunday and its the worst I ever seen it in my short time we been running. I think it was the racers, we just need to have a little respect for other racers, be patient and wait your turn? Sounds simple enough??
As far as the coarse getting torn up, that just make our ride funner!
When are they going to post the results so I can see how far back we're gonna start in Nov?
-
Maybe even have smaller number groups get called to staging, and then have a pre-stager sign them off and call the next numbers. 1-10, 11-20 and so forth. In reality the main vehicles that show up are the top 50, there were only 75 entries. We rarely make a second pass do to the course breaking up. So I dont worry as much about the issue as others, and honestly how many vehicles have you seen get a record on a second round run.
-
i agree with most of what you said Lance... the racers were mostly at fault... but i do think the staging people did have control, when we went up the lady came over to us and told us to go to the back, which we did, they had the ability... but the problem is the 3 people working staging allowed racers to clog the lines before 2nd round was called... tim and Jack did the proper thing and waited patiently off to the side but dozens of others pulled in line and none of the 3 pre stage people kicked them out... i know it was late in the day and everyone was burnt but if your there to work a duty station, do it.... we drove up to the front to get around higher numbers is the only reason she came over, but none of the 3 walked up the lanes to toss any one out.... dont get me wrong, on the whole the club which has the duty station is donig a great job, i do remember how bad it used to be before this duty station was created, they just slipped alittle last weekend... and as Nate commented we were missing a lane steward which added to the frustration of all, as were waited 2 cars pushed up in the rookie lane to butt in, Dean would have tossed em out...
-
And btw I wasnt trying to say no second round runs. This el mirage event we were actually going to try something different on the second round pass, but after the crash we decided not to.I've always told friends at el mirage Get your moneys worth make as many passes as you can.
-
Still unclear.
Round two by group and no regard for numbers and first come first served? or
Round two by group and following numbers, regardless of when you arrive, unless the group has moved forward already?
I like the smaller group number ideas. 1-10, 11-20, It may help reduce the mass effect.
-
I like the previous system.
Shoe polish your number on the push windshield. No extra trip to get a number sheet. No need to have extra volunteers for number sheet duty.
Instead, your group gets called, you show up, you seed generally near your adjacent competitor. Say +/- 10 positions or so.
If you happen to come along later, be polite about seeding yourself in line. Don't ask anyone to shoehorn in if they're already into the staging cones. It's too late by then, :mrgreen:.
I guess I'm unaware of what difficulties we had that made us go to the current system. It seems people are having to wait even longer and getting into more conflict.
Either way, I'm hoping this gets cleared up before next month's two-day meet. I'd rather talk about something else over Saturday night fire.
:cheers:
-The Other Glen SCTA 966B
-
...and yeah, I'll say it.
I miss Dean and his help too!
Was it something I said? :|
-The Other Glen SCTA 966B
-
Back to staging for the first round . . .
Still think it would be a good idea to get the orange card at registration. They know your entry number, even write your starting number at the top of your entry, if I remember correctly. Why not hand you the orange window card at the same time?
This would save the staging people of spending time looking up the same data. And of you having to get to the front of the line before getting it. And, we could get in beter order BEFORE getting to the tent. The only reason this is not being done, as explained to me by several officials, is that they don't want to screw with the lady who makes them up now. (With that power, I may never see another 2- or 3-digit card again!)
Does someone see fault with my reasoning?
Stan
-
she did look at our paper on our windshield, we told her we were #4 and she said it dosent apply to 2nd round... so we did as told...
i think this might be where the problem started. as best i can tell, you're supposed to follow the pre-stage procedures for all rounds. i'm going to try and get clarification from someone higher-up as to what exactly the procedures mean in plain ol easy to understand engrish.
we were in the pits and when we heard the call we went up to see a huge line..... i would like to know what the procedure actually is for 2nd round
people hovering near pre-stage before they're called and then cramming themselves into line before they're even supposed to be there is another problem that needs to stop. if you want to wait near by, fine do what tim and jack did and wait off to the side but if they're calling 1-25 and you're 140 you have no business being anywhere near pre-stage.
It helps for them to have a big guy who does not mind ruffling feathers to help keep things straight.
a big loud scary guy is definitley helpful (thus my comment about missing Moose... anyone else remember him?) but what would be even better is someone with some authority. i think what's really happening is some folks see anne and think 'gah, what's she gunna do if i cut in line....' and don't get me wrong, she can drop the hammer if needed but really, what authority does she, or anyone else working pre-stage really have? not everyone is going to do what kent did and go to the back as he was asked. what would help them out significantly in the short term is to back the pre-stage workers with someone like a board member. put some bite to it and make it official.
Still unclear.
Round two by group and no regard for numbers and first come first served? or
Round two by group and following numbers, regardless of when you arrive, unless the group has moved forward already?
tim, i think the second is supposed to be followed but currently isn't....? i think what's supposed to be happening isn't happening.
anyways, one good piece of news... someone pm'd me and has offered to work as a line steward. awesome.
-
Now that us 7 members know what to do. I think maybe at the next drivers meeting we should have our rookie director go over it with the entire feild? And show some authority so they listen!! DAM IT!! :-D
-
Sounds like a good idea. Review at drivers meeting once it is decided how it is going to work. Thanks Nathan for the help.
-
dispite all this being said about the hickup in pre stage... i gotta add that i think that all the races have gone pretty smooth the last few years, the process is getting pretty dialed in... and if ya think, that sunday crash is the first this year... i think overall these guys are doing a good job.... phew ! ! ! thats alot of thinkin for me.....
kr
-
I think that Anne went to the "Paper in the Window" system so that the "staging lanes table Log " can keep up with which numbers has been through the staging lanes "properly" and such--- it has had some "IMPACT" in the not to distant PAST!
-
So, Nathan, any clarification?
"2. Pre-Staging Operations and Assignments
If your entry isn’t pre-staged in the correct number order in your group, you may run at the back of
your number group. If a later sequence group has finished pre-staging and is starting to move ahead
into the staging lanes, you will stage at the end of the group. You may trade your starting positions in
your number group."
The way this looks to me, if you show up late, but the pre-stage folks have not been cleared to move up yet, you can go around and stage at the back in lanes without being a snake.
-The Other Glen SCTA 966B
-
I am a new guy but it was obvious that the volunteers in pre stage need help. Pre stage should "clear" an entry and have them move ahead to the actual east / west staging lanes. If an entry goes around, then they have not been cleared and won't receive a time or points for that round if they actually make a run.
Being only my second time, I was supprised how unorganized it was. I asked other competitors what the procedure was and they all had different answers. Most thought after the first round, it was done by groups rather than sequential numbers within the group.
The volunteers need help and need a staging steward with a bullhorn.
Lets get help for the pre stage volunteers. I will buy the bullhorn if this method is adopted.
Thank you
-
So, Nathan, any clarification?
Sorry... no, not yet. I'll get an email off to them here in a min.
-
Okay, so I got a response back and it will put everyone's concerns to rest but first I guess I need to make a disclaimer. I may take on an "official" role when I volunteer to be either a tech inspector, the rookie director, or a starter but I have no official capacity outside of those events at which I volunteer and I certainly have no official capacity whatsoever when I post here on these forums. I know all you guys know that but apparently some have taken issue with my involvement in this discussion. So, just to be totally clear, I am in no way representing the SCTA or the Board of Directors. I'm a racer just like you guys... I just happen to sometimes wear a couple of different hats that say SCTA on them but all those hats are off now. It's just me, Nathan, being Nathan and these are my thoughts and comments, not the SCTA's or the Board's. Clear?
Alright, with that out of the way I can tell you, unofficially, what I was told via email from an official: Yes, second round is supposed to be staged in line up order. I think the pre-stage group was a little rusty on what was supposed to happen considering that we had such a long break since our last event. At least one of my rookies got busted for coming to the staging lines "out of order", which they're allowed to do because rookies don't run in starting order sequence, so again, another "rusty" moment. Apparently the Board is entirely aware of the problem and discussed the matter at the last board meeting and has said that there will be a resolution in place for the next event. I did not attend the meeting (getting to Irwindale on a Friday evening from anywhere is murder); these are my unofficial comments based on what an official told me in an email.
So there you have it. I unofficially hope that this answers everyone's questions and I'm glad, as I'm sure you all are as well, to know that the Board will be taking care of the situation. If you guys need further clarification on any particular matter please refer yourselves to an official official, of which I am not!
BTW, Tom, good idea on the bullhorn. I have one that I use for rookie orientation at Bonneville. It's available for their use.
-
Thats OK Nathan, we still love you. Thanks and once again sorry for starting this mess, I was just venting. :roll:
-
thanks for the "un" official official clarification Nate!!!! so we did right going to the front when round 2 staging was called, but i didn't want to make trouble for the lady (yeah yeah all you surprised peps) so we went to the back as told... man we needed to make a pass real bad, we saw our 30+ point lead in the championship dwindle down to a tie... being 4th off the line we probably would have made that pass and set a record... the way i see it, that lady may have cost us the championship and Tim fell pretty far back....
kent
-
NOVERMBER will be better , can't wait to plow the feilds again :mrgreen:
-
We will plow it first you can plow it second dave :evil: :-D
-
I wouldn't say we're plowing the fields - but we certainly have some tilling to do after missing October due to no engine. Received our new block today and will try to make some - actually, a lot of - noise by Monday . . .
See you guys out there!
Willi