Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: basher13 on October 09, 2012, 02:40:43 PM
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I run a Studebaker in the 130mph Club. Its time to add boost. I found a turbo at a swapmeet but cannot find good info on what I have or need. Does anyone know someone or a shop that knows and speaks the truth about turbos? Studebasher
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here is a forum for turbos that you might try.
http://www.theturboforums.com/index.php
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Corky Bell in Spring Branch tx. He wrote one of the definitive books on turbocharging. I hear he is very easy to talk to
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I found a turbo at a swapmeet but cannot find good info on what I have or need.
What did you get???!!!!
I insist on seeing pics!
~JH
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I recommend John Craig of Limit Engineering. He is a car owner and racer and attends Bonneville and el Mirage meets. He builds the turbo for my record holding diesel truck. john can bew reached at (928) 453-7321 or info@limitengineering.com
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Why not stay in the family and find a Mcculloch or Paxton blower...
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Thanks for the replies and PM's. My dad is the one who posted the question, I'll forward him the info from the PM's. To motivate him to set up an account I've changed my password :evil:
It was brought up on another forum about duals vs single, without knowing much about turbos I'm wondering how the "hit" or boost is handled. GH was running twins on his Stude, Dave B runs a single on his...Is it a matter of setting up the wastegate and than gearing around it?
:cheers:
Dan
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I think if you asked ten different people how they run their turbo setups at Bonneville you'll get ten different answers.
So I'd look into the one's who set records and not break too many parts......... but that's just me. :evil:
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It was brought up on another forum about duals vs single, without knowing much about turbos I'm wondering how the "hit" or boost is handled. GH was running twins on his Stude, Dave B runs a single on his...Is it a matter of setting up the wastegate and than gearing around it?
There are lots of factors involved in how the turbo comes on boost. The most important probably is the size of the turbo (and its trim) and the displacment of the engine it is feeding. On factory turbo cars they typically run a turbo that is a bit small for the engine so it comes on boost quickly (single turbo) and it runs out of breath on the top end which naturally tapers off the boost a bit at high rpm. Most of the time a larger turbo will come on boost slower because it has more inertia to spin up, but if sized properly it will have ample capacity to feed the engine and it can run full peak boost (or very nearly so) all the way to red line.
Other factors are how the boost control is set up. You can run just a simple waste gate spring, a basic boost controller which senses the manifold pressure and throttles the boost signal to the waste gate, or a fancy electronic boost controller where you have multiple things you can control including on some of them you can set independent boost limits in each gear. That is probably a good idea at Bonneville, limiting boost in low and second gear to very moderate levels to keep from blowing the tires off, higher boost in 3rd gear and only allow max boost in 4th and 5th if you have that many gears.
The physical plumbing of the boost control circuit can also affect the way the boost comes on. Very short large diameter tubing tends to hit harder than a longer run of smaller diameter tubing (just like a NOS system). It also depends on where you take your boost signal, some have the boost signal tube just down stream from the turbo outlet, others have it plumbed so the boost signal comes from just down stream of the intercooler or in the intake manifold. The later can cause problems if you get too close to the intake valves and the boost controller starts to see pressure pulses from the opening and closing of the intake valves.
Last the diameter and length of the intake tract from the turbocharger to the intake manifold can soften the hit if it is large enough as it takes time to fill and fully pressurize a large volume.
Bottom line, you need to talk to someone with lots of experience with different setups and tell them exactly what you are trying to accomplish.
A turbocharger needs to flow a certain amount of airflow volume at any given boost pressure to stay out of surge, so the cubic inch displacement and rpm range of the engine, plus the needed final boost at max power, are important parameters for the proper sizing of the turbo. There are literally dozens of combinations that will work on a given engine but all those variables will impact how the turbo is sized, and what trim it needs to give you the boost profile (and thermal efficiency you need).
Larry
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Liquid to air intercoolers with ice tanks????
Nothing finer!
~jh
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Larry, Thank you this the kind of info that helps alot. Johnny HN no pictures. The turbo I have is a Garrett #466586-2286P, I can't get the Garrett site to reconize this number. This Stude is a hobby car [cheap build] but I still want to do it right and be safe. Plus I want to go faster, It don't seem right that I went faster on the street in the 60's then I have on the salt. Barry
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Barrybill,
Just for poops and giggles pull off the aluminum housing off to expose the compressor fan (very easy to do). It will more then likely be held on by 6 bolts. Remove the bolts, carefully twist to 'free up' and lift off. If its held on by a giant c-clip.....get some BIG c-clip pliers!
Once its off measure the inducer and exducer size.
(http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/turbo.gif)
Also see if there is an 'AR' number (.82 or other) anywhere on the aluminum housing or on the hot side.
This info will give you a real good idea of the turbo you have, what HP it can make and other factors.
BTW:
Is the turbo internally gated???
~JH
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Bruce Geisler set a couple of records with the help of Banks.
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Geisler/Geislerhood.jpg)
Mike
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the 466586 number will help get info for basic idea of size
looks like a TB03 family, measuring asJH says will be more accurate
but even a measurement of the compressor inlet and exhaust outlet at the wheels will help
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JH the turbo is internally wastegated and I will get some measurements when I finish a home repair. Barry
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I'm back, I gave up on the swap meet turbo as the consensus was it was to small. A friend has loaned me 2 turbos. # 1 is a air research T4 model # TO4B35 Compressor wheel 55 by 70, exhaust wheel 64 by 73, compressor A/R .60 Exhaust A/R .81 # 2 is Air research T4 model #TO4B30, the compressor wheel is the same as # 1 and so far the exhaust side won't come off. It is soaking as I write. So going on a 289 Studebaker any thoughts on either unit? One of them, don't know which, was on a 350 chev. This engine will not be pushed beyond 6000 RPM's if that much. Thanks for your input and hope to see you all at the NW Reunion. Barry
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Barry:
Where are you? You didn't fill out the location blank on the registration page, so we don't know if you're close enough to maybe visit and help you with your turbo chase. Let us know, hey?
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Hey Jon I am Seattle Wa. With my computer skills I am lucky to be registered. I also forgot to list the A/R ratio's for turbo # 2 They are comp. side A/R 60 Exhaust side .96
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IMO the T4 is a better choice then the T3 for your engine. The AR .81 will have a good blend of good spool and make good HP. On the other hand the higher AR (.96) will make more power up top but come on later in the day (higher rpm). Smaller AR would spool earlier but make less on the top. Both the .81 and .96 would be fine choices......, that being said the .81 may be a little easier to drive on the salt.
What is your HP goal with the motor????
Are these T4s internally gated?
Is the exhaust housing inlet divided into 2 separate chambers?
If you want I will be glad to weld up (or show you how) the internal gate port so you can use an external wastegate. Just bring it to the NWBR, I will be there making the typical arse of myself as usual.
~JH
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Thanks for the input JH's. These turbo's do not have internal wastegates. The plan for now is about 7 Lbs of boost sucking through the carb. 5000 RPM should get into 130 club but I have to make sure I spool up fast enough as I only get a mile. You probably asked something else but I forget just about everything. Barry
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JH's 400 to 450 horse power and the exhaust port is not divided. Barry
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Are the turbo's positively sealed on the intake side
Many turbos have just a piston type ring to seal and its not suitable for draw through , the correct seal is a spring loaded carbon seal, sort of like what you find in a water pump
may be easier if they are a piston ring type to plan a blow through carb
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maj, thanks for the reminder I will have to check on the seal Barry