Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: pofg on September 28, 2012, 08:15:44 AM
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While we're all sat around at the shop waiting for the Flower to return from her lengthy post Speedweek cruise, Salt Fever is setting in badly!
The drawing boards have been out... rule books been thumbed... and something classic like a belly tank build is appealing to us here.
However, given the number of cars up for sale etc... it seems a bit daft to worry about the fabrication of the actual car itself and concentrate more on the re-engineering we were considering...
TO that end, I've found a couple of great looking start points on the web, but I'm wondering if the SCTA have done much in the way of frame/roll cage rules over the past few years since these cars last saw tech that might mean they are a dead end rather than a cunning starting point???
For example, this looks like an interesting bit of kit... but not seen a tech inspection in a long time.
http://www.sakowskimotors.com/detail.asp?carid=462 (http://www.sakowskimotors.com/detail.asp?carid=462)
Is there any glaring reasons why it wouldn't pass tech structurally that can be fathomed from these photos?
All contributions, as ever, greatly appreciated!
Cheers
Rick
#1133 Flower of Scotland
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IF someone told me it need to be REWELDED a HUGE red flag would go up for me.
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Frame and roll cage materials and wall thickness have not changed in a long time. What has been added is the head
restraint requirement.
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So we're talking about the amount of padding that needs to go around the crash helmet? And whether there's room for that and a lid within that roll hoop?
Cheers for educating the european numpty
Rick
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Rick, the special construction rules that your liner fall under (gussets, head restraint, etc.)would be the same for a bellytank with the only differences are that the wheels are out in the air. But get Lee or Kiwi Steve for an official answer.
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You already have the best lakester foundation on its way back to Scotland. If you have decided to run a lakester instead of a streamliner, put the wheels on the outside. We did that about 28 years ago... turned out not too bad... all things considered. Just something to think about.
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You already have the best lakester foundation on its way back to Scotland. If you have decided to run a lakester instead of a streamliner, put the wheels on the outside. We did that about 28 years ago... turned out not too bad... all things considered. Just something to think about.
I sometimes forget that the Bockscar started out as a liner.
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The Flower is the Flower... she'll travel to the Salt from Scotland whenever funds allow and one day she'll take me to a blue hat, but she was built as a tribute to someones Dad initially and she needs to stay in this form until she achieves that record. But we came close to not making it this year because of the funding, if the BBC hadn't been there we'd have never raised the cash we needed to show up. (We raised $60,000 of sponsorship this year and that didn't cover all the costs, we all had to dig deep... without the BBC next year... we need to think afresh given the wreckage that is in the container on its way back to us.)
So I was thinking of maybe a little lakester type project... run out of a little Hot Rod shop on the West Coast to keep me in the game in the years when the money's not there to bring the Flower into town.
It's a friendship thing guys: the thought of NOT being at Speedweek each year is just completely unacceptable right now. From the first beer on the Salt with Kiwi and Adam on the Thursday night straight off the plane to stealing sausages off T-man's bar-b-q to the last G&T in the White Goose with Mayor Kennedy when I've broken the car for the final time: it's simply an unmissable part of my year.
So we know an Buick I8 can run fast... but are they big buck motors the guys are using? I understand the XO class is pretty limited?
Stainless has got me thinking though.... how much drag can those wheels really create??? We've run 270mph easily... the I/BGL record is 194 right... god I spend too much time with the rule book.
Rick
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Rick, you won't destroy the car to repurpose it into a lakester... a little tin here, a little fiberglass there, some green paint.... :-o
and you have a car destined to put you toward the first step... get in the 2 club with the car. That might help you sort out your motor and other parts. Then reassemble as the liner. Racing is fun.... setting records is more fun. Don't count on that 194 lasting forever... gas lakester is 199.665.... did I mention we still have the turbo we used last year on the busa motor....
Come on out, lets play
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Oooooo, I think Stainless just threw down the gauntlet! :-D Thats a good idea, keep him out of XO until I am able to play! Rick, we will have even better feasts next year, the rain threw us a curveball.
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"come on out lets play"
why do I hear "have u danced with the devil in the pale moon light?". :wink:
so would we just need to move the wheels outside the bodywork?? is that it?
Is there any rule about how far out we'd have to move them? Or is it simply that they are uncovered?
Cheers
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And as a true Englishman I am a sucker for a spot of gauntlett throwing!
"You challenged me Sir???"
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Inner plane of the wheels has to be outside the outer plane of the bodywork.
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And that is literally all the changes we'd need to make guys?.
I am thinking about moving the wheels out then 2 sets of bodywork ??? Has it been done?
I know some of the roadster guys change classes by adding headlights or summink but flipping between lakester and streamliner?
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Hi
None of my business but what is the intended outcome of the change?
I can't see a cost saving which is what I thought the initial driver for a simpler project was.
Just curious is all.
I think from reading you've run over the record one way.
I guess it handles well then.
I fully understand the money thing.
If you put some wheels out in the wind you will push the driveline just as hard, spend all the same running costs plus the money to change it.
Say you then get a record, the first you will say to yourself is "If......."
Again none of my business, feel free to tell me to naff off.
jon
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And that is literally all the changes we'd need to make guys?.
I am thinking about moving the wheels out then 2 sets of bodywork ??? Has it been done?
I know some of the roadster guys change classes by adding headlights or summink but flipping between lakester and streamliner?
Go back and look at the "Old Bonneville Picture thread". There are shots of the Bockscar pre and post configurations. Also in that thread is a shot of Al Teagues liner when it was ran as a lakester. But, I like the Stateside idea for backup equipment.
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Joe Law ran both classes with the same car.
Pete
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I've lost track here. What class' are you looking to run with the old Howey car? We looked at the car back in 2000 when we first came to the Salt. We were excited that it had a straight 8 for power but decided to read the book and build from scratch. The learning curve was steep, but we made so many friends along the way that it was worth the climb. We are still learning and climbing the hill. Straight 8 power is cool, because there aren't ant cookie cutter combo's out there and everything that you do is a challenge. Welcome to the world of vintage engines.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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This thread has sort of diverged two ways...
1) I still like the idea of a low cost project to keep me in the game in the years I can't raise all the dough for shipping plus the crews airfares etc.... so appreciate thoughts on if (in theory) that old lakester with the Buick I8 can be economically run to the XO/GL or XO/BGL record??? Or are people going to turn around in a couple of years and say "Crikey, he was never going to get close with that old Buick lump in the car"?
2) The idea of widening the track on the Flower also appeals for stability reasons, it is something we've actively considered as she's pretty frisky above 250mph... LOT's of movement... wouldn't need to move the wheels out very far to be outside the line of the bodywork, then make up a fresh set that effecitvely covers them again if we want to go back to being a liner.
As Stainless says, breaking records (I imagine) is a whole lot of fun... and it might be nice to have a crack at that I/BFL mark.
Cheers
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If you are not doing anything next week come out to the salt and help us with the lakester... yes I know it is a long trip but if you start tomorrow it will give you time to rest up a little before we put you to work. You can see first hand how much fun it is to run a little lakester... and hopefully.... well you know.....
:cheers:
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That's a tempting offer Stainless... If I could afford the time, could sneak away without the boss or the Wife noticing AND find the 5000 dollars air france want to get me to SLC and back in Coach (!) at this short notice I'd be out for another dose of Salt!
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Remain frugal or lose standing as a good Scot. 5 grand in airfare might better be put toward the lakester conversion kit.
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Hell, if Rick made the trip I would have to bail and head West as well. :-o
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So thoughts on whether a 320 cubic inch Buick can be easily competitive in XO/GL or XO/BGL or is it a big $$/black magic tuning sort of thing? Have to admit these old American engines a TOTAL mystery to me... looking fwd to learning properly!
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So thoughts on whether a 320 cubic inch Buick can be easily competitive in XO/GL or XO/BGL or is it a big $$/black magic tuning sort of thing? Have to admit these old American engines a TOTAL mystery to me... looking fwd to learning properly!
Certainly, Jeff Brock and also the Salt Cat guys are doing great things with them. There are a couple more on the board here, GH? that have also run them hard. These guys are pretty much hot rodders doing it with engine-uity and not cubic dollars.
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The big Buick will be running against similar design GMC six cylinder and flathead Hudsons and maybe a Cad or something.. You have more ports and valves to feed the same volume than the GMC. And the advantages of overhead valves compared to the flathead engines. So it's up to you to realize the potential.
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Thanks for that Rich... this does feel like a tempting project... not least of which I could come and discover the mystery that is El Mirage! And actually drive a LSR car more often than 1 week per year!
Looked at widening the Flower... tough for the engineering, and would make a huge difference to the aero.... add about 50% drag we think. So the Flower stays the way she is and we crack on at that blue hat!
Cheers for all the advice boys!
Listening to the radio direct from WoS here in Zurich... wishing I was there!
So run fast and run safe guys...
Rick