Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: Stainless1 on August 12, 2012, 08:06:51 AM
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I spent till about noon with Porkpie in the rookie orientation course taught by Nathan Stewart, very thorough, covered everything under the sun.... no pun intended. Good Job Nate.
Then we went back to get the car for a shakedown pass... couldn't believe my ears when Glen announced that the drag racer that was a salt rookie just made a 191 mph pass... I guess pro stock fame gets you a pass on the licensing requirements not to mention a pass on rookie orientation. So I guess you don't have all that wear and tear on your race vehicle if your driver is famous enough. Didn't work for Don Gartlits... didn't work for Andy Green.... Maybe their schedule allowed the scta to maintain its organizational integrity and the pro stock guy is just too busy for all that rule stuff.
yep... calling bull shit
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gotta have a name
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Jason Line driving the Jesel Dodge A/MP truck? ???
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Why did I have to do all the rookie requirement's my rookie year. Oh yea because I'm not a big time drag racer.
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I would not rush to judgement until all the facts are in. Is it possible that the race officials after seeing or hearing of this run...went to this team ? They could scold the driver, disallow that run and make him start over at license passes etc?? Just because he went to fast on his first pass does not mean the SCTA allowed this..
Just my 2 cents,,,
Wish I was there...
Charles
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Jason was cleared by SCTA to start licensing from 175
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Jason went 171 on his 175 license pass, then he went 194 on his 200 pass..(This is what I understand )
So it seems he did do his rookie license passes per what the SCTA told him.
All is good, I also heard what I think was a 217.xxx? qualifying pass an hour or so ago. !!!
Go Jason and Team Jesel...
Charles
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From what I saw, he went 194 out of the gate. Maybe I missed the first run, but I don't think I did. :cheers:
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4449 A MP Jesel Landspeed Team
171.423 167.588 169.103 169.103
Then
4449 A MP Jesel Landspeed Team
194.774 182.820 190.655 190.655
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I guess the run logs remove all doubt?
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Yep that means he didn't need to attend rookie orientation so he could be making passes early in the morning while the rookies that were following the rules were still in the meeting.... still special treatment, still a problem with organizational integrity.... everyone should have to follow the rules or no one should have to follow the rules... Maybe the rules for rookies should be optional... seems to be the case here. Just smacks real Bonneville racers in the face... if you follow the rules you end up in the back of the line... while the famous one and done types get special treatment...
I must have missed the line in the rule book that said drag racers with lots of cash get a pass...
still calling bullshit
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I guess the run logs remove all doubt?
Yea, when you make it to Bonneville ask them to let you skip all the silly rookie stuff and start at 175 since you run faster than that on the pavement with the ECTA.... see how far that gets you... as I remember for several years they made the ECTA bike riders run double rookie passes... ask Todd and Deb.
It is a safety rule... no one should get a pass on a safety rule... otherwise the racing organization loses its integrity.... next guy can just say well it was OK for him, why not for me
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I guess the run logs remove all doubt?
Yea, when you make it to Bonneville ask them to let you skip all the silly rookie stuff and start at 175 since you run faster than that on the pavement with the ECTA.... see how far that gets you... as I remember for several years they made the ECTA bike riders run double rookie passes... ask Todd and Deb.
It is a safety rule... no one should get a pass on a safety rule... otherwise the racing organization loses its integrity.... next guy can just say well it was OK for him, why not for me
My replies where only to clarify the comments about the 194 being his first run. I have made no comments on the part about the rookie treatment or meetings..
ONLY about the sequence of his runs (verified by the run logs)..
So NOW, don't jump my sh!t..LOL
I for one fully expect to be TREATED as a ROOKIE when I get there. I look forward to the Rookie meetings and touring the courses and hearing from all the Salty veterans.. I also expect to make all the required License Runs, 150, 175, 200 etc... I also plan to make certain that I am comfortable before I go fast..(bad things can happen when you "think" you know what you are doing before you "know" you know what you are doing...
The Rookie Procedures are there TO HELP US..
I for one appreciate the process and to this day go to the rookie meetings at the begining of each SEASON at both ECTA and LTA even as I am not required to.. it helps refresh after the long winter off season.
Enough rant..
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Well one misconception is that the 171 run was his... it was not according to his own nhra blog
After completing his first licensing pass on Saturday, Line returned to the salt on Sunday for his second run, recording an average speed of 214 mph after being instructed by Southern California Timing Association (SCTA) officials not to exceed 215 on this final licensing attempt. As this eclipsed the previous class mark, under the rules of the event, the truck was then impounded, setting the stage for Monday’s monster run. Although everything went mostly according to plan throughout the entire weekend, Line did experience a slight hiccup during his maiden pass.
“On my first licensing run, I wasn’t supposed to go over 175 mph,” explained Line. “Unfortunately, the combination of our calculations being a bit off and my being a couple hundred rpms over what I was supposed to run resulted in my being 20 mph too fast, for which I justifiably got my hand slapped by the SCTA. After all, they just want everyone to be safe, which I certainly appreciate. My intent was certainly not to violate any rules, especially being my first time there, and I consider it a lesson learned.
“Looking back at the experience, my goals going into the weekend were to not do anything stupid, to have fun, to get in the 200-mph Club, and to help Wayne set a record with his truck, and we were able to accomplish all of them without any damage to the equipment and without any incidents other than my speeding ticket. On top of that, some of my KB Racing teammates came out to watch me run, so it just turned out to be a good time.
So he made his first pass at 194 as stated above... guess it is nice to get special treatment, most would be sent back to rookie orientation and have to sit out a day... but now that the nhra racing world knows you can do 175 or 194 (what's the difference) on your first pass and 215 on your second, maybe we will get a bunch more "big time drag racers" out for their 3 passes to make the 2 club.. lucky us
Sour grapes.... nope, I only question the integrity of the rules for the organization that knowingly allows it to happen.
Welcome to the 2 club Jason, don't forget to pay your dues to keep your membership in good standing :roll:
:cheers:
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SS#1 Spot on -- this is way out of line---definitely slaps the "traditions" of the past around should have taken:
#1 pass--under 150 take starter signed timing slip to get the D lisc
#2 pass--under 174 " """ for a C
#3 pass--under 200 " " " " " " B
#4 pass-- 214 go to impound and take your signed slip by the lisc trailer for a A lisc.
#5 pass-- backup pass go to impound for certification
sounds like he was two passes to short to me
This is the other side of what I wrote my other post about but it addresses the same issue PERSONALITIES:
--people who interject their personal feeling into their decisions and actions in reguard to the rules--they use their power and influnces for the benefit or detriment various racers.
one is not suppose to be able to make pass without the proper lisc.
prior pass time slip signed by the starter, taken to the lisc. trailer for the issance of the next level lisc. Thats what I had to do in 01 what my buddys had to in 09
By all documentation--this was not done by the rules--there have been hats denied and taken back for a lot less--as a 2 club member "I feel" -------- sour grapes --not really in my opinion---but definitely not in the intrest of maintaing or reputation of everone got it the same way NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE---I feel violated on behalf of my cherised club---Sorry Jason You didn't earn it like the rest of us-- YOU just got it!!
you didn't earn it in my opinion---those in power who let it happen--- SHAME ON YOU!!
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Just for the record, I talked to Jason personally out side Montego Bay on Sat night. He said he had no reference to how fast he was going and ended up going 191 on his 175 pass. He told me that he got a talking to from the SCTA official. Again, Jaosn brought that topic up to me and he was a good sport about it. He had to go back and run the 175 pass over. So the rules applied to Jason Line as well.
I also saw a veteran run on course two instead of being between the two black markers he was to the left between the black marker to the right and the orange cone to his left...which is technically the emergency lane on course two. You could hear the engine winding out the whole way so it was a full pass down the E Lane. I am sure he got a talking to as well.
Bill
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nevermind.
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Just for the record, I talked to Jason personally out side Montego Bay on Sat night. He said he had no reference to how fast he was going and ended up going 191 on his 175 pass. He told me that he got a talking to from the SCTA official. Again, Jaosn brought that topic up to me and he was a good sport about it. He had to go back and run the 175 pass over. So the rules applied to Jason Line as well.
Bill
sorry Bill, not according to his blog on nhra...
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The only thing it seems that the SCTA gave Jason, was permission to run 175 on his first run. So considering that the normal penalty for running over 175 is to redo that license pass, which he did at 174? So then he went 214 with permission from the SCTA. Then he went 230+ to back up the record.
Seems like he was appropriately penalized for exceeding 175. Does not seem like any blame should lay on him but only the SCTA if you feel they did wrong in allowing him to skip some of the licensing requirements.
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"He said he had no reference to how fast he was going and ended up" again documenting things were not done corectly
Buick Subaru I don't buy that---
What the in the world are Tachs and "dream charts" for-- he may be a Pro in Drag racing--but he sure as Heck wan't a properly prepared Salt ROOKIE is LSr--
what in the heck are Rookie procedures and rules for-- shame on the people on his team as well as any SCTA officia (?s)l that sanctioned it--- that let him get away with it--puts him and any SPONSORS associated with the effort in a bad light in my opinion
I salute SCTA & especially Nathan and his efforts to tighten up the rookie procedures--
There is a reason rookies now have a sponsor system at El M. ---this is the kind of stuff that made it necessary---some dissed our sport either intenionally or on pourpose---
I may be speaking more direct than SS#1 but my hat is off to him for having the courage to speak up and bring it to our attention---the sport will benefit in the long run if more speak out against "blatant rules happenings" the rest of us deserve no less---stuff like this needs to be gotten to the bottom of and CORRECTED
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Well, extending the complaints a little:
(http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/Speedweek%202012/Photos/SW2012/DSCN0189.JPG)
(pic from 2012 pics on scta website)
Is that a legal air dam (covers lower radiator opening; appears to be one-piece and not "attached" to the stock bumper [4.CC.1] which has to be retained [5.D.3])?
Mike
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Well, extending the complaints a little:
(http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/Speedweek%202012/Photos/SW2012/DSCN0189.JPG)
(pic from 2012 pics on scta website)
Is that a legal air dam (covers lower radiator opening; appears to be one-piece and not "attached" to the stock bumper [4.CC.1] which has to be retained [5.D.3])?
Mike
There are a couple different models of noses for these trucks. One of our own board members found a limited edition that came with a swoopier nose.
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Speed Limit,
With all due respect, I know what I heard and there were three people with me that heard the same thing.
But to be truthful, it does not bother me one bit. Jason did what SCTA asked him to do for his "A" license and I did what SCTA asked me to do for my "A" license.
I think the SCTA is one of the greatest and best run sanctioning bodies in all of motorsports...and they are all volunteers. Whatever decision SCTA makes...even if I happen to disagree, I support them 100%. Remember without those wonderful volunteers there is no speedweek.
Wayne is a great supporter of our sport and if his guy Jason got a record & hat on is first attempt on the salt then that is fanstastic. Congrats Wayne and Jason.
There is so much positiive about the SCTA, the volunteers and our sport, I ask why put any effort into fanning the flame of what might, by some, to be considered a negative?
Bill
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Wheeler Dealer --I will assure you that reputation you refered to didn't come from rewarding this type of behavior or your attitude toward it-- IMO one would think NASCAR was taking care of sponsors and/or favorites
Bill just keep bring to light more excusses and justifications--- so far you have scored more for the DA than you have for the defendant
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Sparky:
I can see the passion you have for the subject matter by your words. I respect that.
Bill
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Bill, You are right---I cherish my hats and what they mean to most in motor sports world, and I want that to remain. Untill now we knew what virtually everyone who wears one of those hats has done, exactly the same thing as they worked their way up the lisc chain to earn the right to make a pass on a record, not some short cut due to favors or turning ones head!
Well we can know longer say that. I for one will remember how Jason got his, through special rulings, and/or turing a blind eye by officials for whatever reasons. t
(removed by Sparky because---I do not wish to ujustly diminish any stigma that could be possibily be attributed to HJF)
Dodge sure not the same as, Andy Green and JCB. To my knowledge they went out of their way to respect all the procedures and traditions.
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Sparky ... we all resent the privileged getting special treatment but I am not sure it is in the same catagory of the that evil bitch Hanoi Jane.
Joe
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Well, okay, if there was a problem, it had to swing on the decision of a person or group of persons.
So who dropped the ball?
Has a challenge to the record been filed? I understand that there is a procedure for that, and one of the reasons it's there is to maintain the integrity of the rules.
Sparky, Stainless, I agree with the principals you spell out, but before I'm willing to buy into the argument of favoritism, I'd like to see a more thorough airing of the facts, and a check of the paper trail.
Somebody had to sign off.
I'm hearing the accusers - I'm not hearing from the accused - in this case, the SCTA officials involved. A challenge to the record would shed light on the issue.
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Jason is not the first racer to exceed the posted speed limit on his license pass and certainly won't be the last. Amir got the same slap on the wrist when he exceeded 300 MPH (by a bunch) on his AA pass.
So, just saying, How many passes have the most experienced LSR racers made at Bonneville? Jason has taken a 210 mph low downforce Pro Stock down the track probably well over 1000 times, including crashing one on a bad track when he was a rookie. He is a hard worker who worked his way up earning championships before he ever got the chance to drive as a pro. Got the upmost respect for the man and he remains humble through it all. Just my 2 cents.
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Who cares what Jason has done on the drag strip. That has nothing to do with us/SCTA. We all had to do our licensing runs according to our rules. Experience in other venues is supposed to mean nothing, the salt is unique. I am as offended as anyone.
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He has a "hat" like many. Many (most) earn them, others just drive for them. I wear mine to the NHRA Drags when I go. If he sees it/me and makes a comment on how I recieved it I'll say "I earned it."
He has "earned" his NHRA Championships.
He has a lot of experience in another venue but none on the salt. I can not do what he does on a drag strip or nor would I try. I'm sure he would have known what a lose condition would have been and would have driven accordingly. He is not the first or will he be the last to recieve a "hat" like he did...JD
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Damn you Stainless! {I miss you! :-* }
When we brought Josh out to license up we were told sternly & repeatedly that it didn't matter what you had done anywhere else or how fast. The salt was different and you were licensing for the salt. No exceptions! After Todd & I were penalized for admitting that we held A licenses on pavement we told him to keep his mouth such even if they asked and just do the licensing everyone else had to do so he didn't have to pull an extra license run like we did! :roll:
After all the revamped rant about everyone needing to exhibit that they can follow the rules and control their vehicle and understand the course layout & turnout procedures blah blah blah, and if you screw up your license pass you have to do it over blah blah blah... I guess that only applies to the peons. Glad to see nothing has changed while we take our time-out!
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Debbie,
What are Todd and you up to? I was just asking Freud if he has heard from you. Seems like you disappeared in the night. Glad you resurfaced.
IMO one of the people who should not have let this happen is Wayne Jessel, the car owner. I have complained about Licensing violations on occasion over the years. I am glad someone else is finally seeing it also and speaking up.
Tom G.
PS. Any exceptions will be at the discretion of the Race Director, Rookie Director and/or the appropriate Tech Chair or Chief Inspector and will be considered on a case-by-case basis.
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40 years a BNI/SCTA member....raced up until 2002 only BNI every year.........
If I had a dollar for every "blatant rules happening" during that time I would be even richer then I am now........Just try racing in various sidecar classes,
and see how the rules and the way they are inforced change by who ever is in charge......One of the many reasons our team since 2003 raced the BUB event
Yes, BUB had some problems......but there is someone to talk to and they hear what you have to say...........BNI/SCTA is the "good old boys" network and it will allways be that way..........But until Denis Manning's BUB event BNI/SCTA
were the only game on the salt......so for 30 years we raced with them.............
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DEB, I Love Both of You.
FREUD
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Personally I'd like to see all this jealous whining stop on Landracing about the performance of a gentleman who runs over 200 mph more than twenty weeks a year in his day job and address your complaints to Mr Bill Lattin, SCTA President who is EVENT DIRECTOR. His phone number is 907 800 6853.
He may be a little busy right now, however.
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IB jealous whining my ACCURA --- thanks for the phone number it will be put to use
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Sometimes in my professional career (not the racing one) I will show up at some sort of event and the hosts will openly give me some special treatment. I never ask for it, do not expect it, and am sorta embarrassed by it. What can I do? I try to graciously accept it and behave in a gentlemanly manner. This might be what happened here. We need to put ourselves in Jason's shoes. He might be in an awkward situation not of his making.
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Thanks Bo. That's the way I've been thinking and didn't really know how to put it. I think the first people to question are those that arranged his rookie procedure because it was them and not Jason who set out the procedure for him to follow. I'm sure he would have followed whatever was required and I doubt that it was him that was looking for special treatment. He's a racer and if he had to do more passes behind the wheel that would probably have been fine with him. We're all looking for ways to spend more time on the track.
Pete
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Personally I'd like to see all this jealous whining stop on Landracing about the performance of a gentleman who runs over 200 mph more than twenty weeks a year in his day job and address your complaints to Mr Bill Lattin, SCTA President who is EVENT DIRECTOR. His phone number is 907 800 6853.
He may be a little busy right now, however.
Aw crud. Stupid interwebbythingy ...
Could be a lot worse. Folk who didn't show at rookie meetings in sledpulling or Solo2 have killed and injured people. And you aren't hitting 60mph. No need to even discuss desert or drags.
Please do not show up at any other motorsports other than LSR with a helmet please. We don't need your kind of attitude. You show up with a helmet, you go to the meetings. Period. If you don't like it, don't show up.
Jealous? Do you honestly believe that? If so, get help. The number for a good shrink is 951 270-2667.
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Sometimes in my professional career (not the racing one) I will show up at some sort of event and the hosts will openly give me some special treatment. I never ask for it, do not expect it, and am sorta embarrassed by it. What can I do? I try to graciously accept it and behave in a gentlemanly manner. This might be what happened here. We need to put ourselves in Jason's shoes. He might be in an awkward situation not of his making.
You know, that is a good angle to look at. I KNOW it has happened to me in other settings. One time I got to play with some prototype stuff before the 400 or so folks that actually WORKED AT THE COMPANY. I drew some looks as a total outsider to many as I toured the facility then got to play with the stuff they were all waiting for. Special treatment for sure.
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This is supposed to be a NON-PROFIT endevor-- for profit is different---I know, I know we are sorta a Hybrid---what scares me long run is the times are changing and some do not recognise there will be a time when someone will have to raise their hand and take an oath---if what they say---well these are our rules and everyone no matter who has to abide by them----the good old boy system has different rules leagally than for profit!! :cry:
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The rules state (in CAPS) ALL NEW DRIVERS SHALL ATTEND A ROOKIE ORIENTATION MEETING PRIOR TO THEIR FIRST COMPETITION RUN. I didn't hear where he did that.
Rules is rules and should apply to ALL.
If he makes over 1000, 200+ runs a year he darn well knows how to read a tach to know how fast he was going
If only being close counts, makes me wonder why my 174.344 wasn't good enough for long course and license.
I agree with WW, maybe he was only doing as he was told or allowed to do and puts him in awkward position. Problem is, shouldn't have been allowed.
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Nobody here, including myself, know the facts. Jason wasn't at orientation. Did he get it elsewhere and the SCTA deemed it was acceptable? He exceeded the speed limit. Well, that never happened before and he got preferred treatment. Well, I know thats not true...I've seen the same thing before. He didn't have to start licensing at 150...again, I believe that has been waived for other experienced drivers. Jason has commitments to his Pro Stock team and Sponsors, he needs to prepare jis cars and is at Brainerd for this weeks race. Schedule was tight for him to squeeze in Bonneville.
An experienced drive showed up with a Very Experienced Crew, A well prepared and Funded Car and did well. What do you expect? Well, "He didn't Deserve it, or Didn't work hard enough for it". That sounds like sour grapes. Many LSR folks build every part of their car, for love or cost. Many do not. Gearge Poteet is one of my heros, as is Jack Costello. Gerorge does 2 things, he Drives and Writes checks. He does both well. So, does George Deserve it? We know Jack does. There are many LSR racers who have cars built, motors built, etc. Where do you draw the line?
I built my car from a pile of tubing. Do I feel like the guy next to me is less a racer than me because he bought everything? Yes, I mean No..at least I try not to. It does give me a little more satisfaction when I whoop them. I feel some of the pain, LSR has changed and not all for the good. There are now million dollar tow rigs and corporate interest. But the salt can be the great equalizer. Look at the records this week. Lots of low buck racers. Kudos to them! I feel the same way about the Heritage Drags. It's gone the wrong direction. But I have no control over that, just run my class and have fun. I will probably build a LSR car because I enjoy the racing and folks so much. I had to chime in as this is the first thread here I found here that is so negative and tearing people (Jason, Jessel, SCTA officials) apart without 1. Knowing the facts 2. Them being aware and even having the opportunity to defend themselves. I hope you guys don't continue to go to the dark side.
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Sparky -
Did you get ahold of Bill Lattin? I would like to hear their side of the story.
Chris
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I will, but I know first hand how busy he is--I will call today and ask for what time would be good for him!!!
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907-800-6853 is a non working number
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Sparky:
Bill Lattin's number & email are on page 173 of the rule book.
:cheers:
Mike
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rctScientist---thanks for your wise counsel---I followed up--called Lee Kennedy got what he knows about it -- got a rough time line and some names I will follow up and report back--- there is definitely another side of the story :
Due to time constraints-- private orentation before Sat am by SCTA folks
There was a pass above the asked for 175--this is reguarally done for RACE lisc drivers with higher speeds and proven cars---Lee is only speaking for cars
a wrong gear in the truck ( my guess is from last years I think turbo effort)--Lee told me Wayne Jessel was sweating bullets over what was their mistake Lee said that Jason was very concerend--and worked hard to do exactly what was asked of him.
I will personally check out the scta logs and call the folks whose names I was given who were involved--
I want all to know that I have more EGG on MY face than anyone else--IF anyone feels like there is someone that deserves an apology let me kown and I will respond accordingly
Stainless called to our attention he heard the truck during SAT "Rookie Meeting"
There may still be some small unansered questions---but at this stage--I think there is enough egg to go around for all our faces---like most things in life --- there is a lot of grey between black and white--we maybe being played but I do not think so.
the only thing not straight out of the rule book is the non sat morning orientation and the un written 175 1st pass for drivers with lisc from other areas---I was allowed to go all out at El M from the rookie line after I went through rookie Orentation---I have seen, helped conduct, and been a party to several non-standard orientation from explaining the turnout rules, to taking someone down the course so they could see the course after the normal rookie drive!!!
AGAIN I want all to know that I have more EGG on MY face than anyone else--IF anyone feels like there is someone that deserves an apology let me kown and I will respond accordingly
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You are fine Sparky. It was an obvious question that was even being talked about in the pits while I was there. Folks just wanted to know. That egg will wash off :-P
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Sparky, it was a question that should have been asked and you stood forward and did it. There's no harm in that and now that it appears there's a solid explanation for all that happened I think everyone should be able to move forward without guilt or embarrassment.
Thanks for caring about the integrity of the sport.
Pete
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Well this goes to show what great folks all you LSR racers are :cheers:
Looks can be decieving. Even folks who know me probably think the handle I use is because I am an Aerospace Engineer. Couldn't be further from the truth. It is because whenever (OK, often) I did a bonehead thing when I was young, my mother would call me a "Rocketscientist". I still find myself doing something stupid in the shop I will mumble rocketscientist under my breath.
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lol
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Sparky,
Thanks for the insight, like I said, I learned your passion for the subject. I was able to see the topic from your perspective which is a valid one. You are correct in wanting to perserve the integrity of the last 64 years and how all of you club members got your hat(s). Because some day, if my junk every makes a qualifing run and I am lucky enough to make record return run...I want to have the same credibility as all that came before me.
Bill :cheers:
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I agree with what Bill said.
Bill, it will be nice if we ever have the chance,good fortune and racing luck yo get a hat...I want a bunch of these Red Hat racers who frequent this forum to be there...It means alot to get your hat in front and by the racers that have done it...
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Charles,
True. Its a unique group of people. I hope to earn more than my PARTICIPANT hat that I got last year.
Bill
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Here is what I have been able to find for the Jessel 4449
2 passes on Sat with 1 out of sequence a 194 pass followed by the "make up" 171
on Sunday went to impound with a 217 which by his own words exceed the 215 he was asked to not exceed---no big deal--but lots have had to repeat when failing to "comply"
Other than his blog---I have not been able to verify he even ran on Monday but he claims 235 with record of 225 and a hat---
WHY no log entrys for 4449 on long course or record logs of any run on Monday?
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I can't help myself-I have to comment on this. Our team went to Speedweek 2011 with a new car and 3 rookie drivers. We were all former drag racers so we knew very little about LSR stuff. We went though rookie orientaion and we all came up together on our licensing. My 150-175 was too slow so I had to redo it. Rogers' 125-150 was too fast so he had to redo it. During the course of the 2011 event our three drivers made 14 runs and all got our A licenses. My two fellow drivers and I have probably 20+ years each in drag racing, but we did not get a "pass" in licensing when we went over or under. I believe maintaining the integrity of the SCTA rules is much more important than a little press generated by famous racers dabbling in SCTA events. By the way, at SW 2012 we hit the old AA/CBGC record by almost 30mph and all without sponsorship or press. Thank you to all the officials and volunteers.
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The only refrence we have to the 4449 on Monday-- New 200-300 club members on 8-13-12 with a 225.246 on an old 191. mph record.
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WHY no log entrys for 4449 on long course or record logs of any run on Monday?
Sparky,
For general information I am having the same problem finding any runs for Car #369, yet it has this posted under new 200 mph club members.
8/13 369 Waters Manghelli & Romero F BGR 205.531 224.007 John Romero
Tom G.
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369 had used a class change number
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yeah, for some reason there are still some missing runs for at least the 12th and 13th. My runs in #369 are not listed on the website but they are listed where it counts (the record cert sheet)
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369 had used a class change number
Glen,
Two people got in the Two Club with the old Wilson and Waters roadster.(I cannot forget Dana, RIP)
John using #369 and Keith using the class change to Modified Roadster using #1369.
Tom G.
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yeah, for some reason there are still some missing runs for at least the 12th and 13th. My runs in #369 are not listed on the website but they are listed where it counts (the record cert sheet)
If you ran on the long course but only went to the 3 your time is under the short course results :?
Also spins and turnouts from long course, but before the 3 are under short couse results.
Couldn't find my 1st test run on long course but listed on short course when only getting a coasting time thru the 3.
JL222
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Course one and two were combination courses 3 or 5 mile, new guys doing the results this year. Ed wasn't there and with 4 courses running a couple of errors or omissions probably occurred on the inputs. I am sure this will be corrected.
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Glen, we were #416 but had one run that was listed under #46 (Mariani car) I do not know if it was changed on the official record? Who do we talk to?
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Trent,
You didn't get a record. I didn't see you in Impound did I?
DW
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Back to subject... The only info I have is what I posted... the story from his blog on nhra... and the conflicting story that has evolved toward compliance...
Sparky, no egg on your face, just the passion for the integrity of the sport, you owe no one an apology!
None of it matters, integrity of the rules and organization are really what is at stake... if he got a pass on the safety rules for rookies someone needs to consider the ramifications if he had crashed on that 194 pass, would mom and dad had a good case to sue the organization for not enforcing it own safety rules for rookies...
I would suggest to the race director that no safety rule should ever be waived for celebrity...
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Trent,
You didn't get a record. I didn't see you in Impound did I?
DW
No, we didn't. Best of 142. We put 15 mph on our speed from last year. I stopped by the WGB and Impound several times trying to track you down! You sure get around!!!!!!!
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Well I tried to stay out of this fray but having a big mouth and no brains here I go again.
As many of you know (and has been substantiated by several members of the inspection team, I was used as a example of punishment during Speedweek 20ll for all to see and chortle at because of a vendeta by a person who eveyone knows and is afraid to speak up against).
I next caught hell for merely "asking" what others thought about seperate records for high dollar teams.
I have previously railed against what I consider a "good old boy" attitude which amongst other things badly injured a M.C. rider at a non SCTA event last year.
I have watched the ex head of the BNI help lift a parapalegic into a 200+ mph roadster to make a pass when no one without a crane and full fire protection could possibly save him from a fire.
I have been both distracted and nearly had a chute deployed by a nice person with obvious physical and possibly mental issues while waiting to fire up.
I have had my push truck run into by Jack Costello's who felt he needed to run ahead of me when a new crew man was a little slow belting me in.
I have also had much help from strict but curtious inspectors who scared the hell out of me but also helped enable me to race, and of course I have been writen up by "self proclaimed experts who didn't even know the rules.
Now to the crux of the matter:
we are a non profit orginization that is self policing and self governing, staffed by volunteers who are are peers and more importantly our friends.
In the case of Jason line, it sounds like most evidence shows that he was allowed special treatment by the rules committee and the car owner., Wayne Jessel.
Having met Wayne and having had him help me out although he didn' know me from diddly squat, he donated his valuable time and knowledge and even talked to my engine builder by phone to help solve a problem with lifters made by another vendor
Is this a bad deal? You bet your Acura it is, and I am sure that the person who feels the worrst is Wayne Jessel.
Wayne loves Bonneville and has helped out everyone from Mike Cook to a nobody like me. He has answered emails and phone calls to help some of us go after his records.
He is not a cheater.
As for the SCTA staff that allowed Jason to trun, I would only say that first of all if I was to put a rookie in my car, he would be a great choice..
If there was a mistake made, lets learn from it and get over it.
I seem to have a univited ongoing fued with Steve Davis, allthough I don't wish for it to continue, nor do I want to see him fired or punished.
I just want to race, just like everyone else. We all make mistakes. We race for fun. Our officials are volunteers.
For Christ sakes lets let it go and go race. Enough is enough. Subaru happens. A few people fu*cked up. GET OVER IT.
I am sure everyone involved will be chastised by the proper officials, they are all sorry and embarassed, et al.
I am not pointing any fingers here, but to the persistant complainers, why not take a year off from racing and volunteer to work as a inspector or track worker?
Right now I am home having just spent three grand to NOT race my car through my own ignorance and a pissant engine rebuilder in Phoenix. My car , trailer, firesuit, helmet and support items are locked up in Wendover, and I am trying to deal with some Alfa insurance agencies after being rearended by a uninsured driver.
I have no clue how I can possibly afford to go retrieve my car let alone run the World Finals, but I am sure as hell not going to let the Jason Line problem stop me from trying to make it happen.
It's over, lets go racing,even if we can't afford it....... Bob
t.
t
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Just to clarify, my last post was a somewhat feeble attempt to disarm what I percieve as a "no win" arguement.
I think Stainless' opening post was right on, and I agree some actions should be taken, but my point was meant to say that we "DO" need to insure that it does not happen again, and the people responsible should have a copy of the do's and do not's with them at all times.
If their are no such copies of proper protocol, then hopefully the SCTA will print and implement them.
My sole concern here is having lived through the ugly shut down of this site a few years back, and even though I am a strong proponent of open discourse, We need to keep our frustrations as civilized as possible (and yes, I am as guilty as anyone else of violating my own rule).
It takes real balls to openly call out the SCTA and I salute Stainless for having them (although I think his are Brass).
Personally I think each of us with a opinion should call our club President or Rep and ask him to address this at the next SCTA meeting.
For you newbies or racers who (like me) don't live in SoCal, keep in mind that to apply for a rule change and to get the latest official news letters, YOU MUST BE A SCTA CLUB MEMBER.
It's easy to do, turn to page 177 of ourcurrent rule book and call any club President and ask about joining.
The best way is to ask anyone you might know who is currently a club member to sponsor you.
From then on, you will have the right to propose changes and vote for whom ever you like. Bob
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Bob,on the scta-bni web site at the bottom of the cover page theie is a list of information for LSR.
Click on the the one that says Bonneville orientation, it covers everything for the first timer and even some old ones.
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. . . If there was a mistake made, let's learn from it and get over it. . . .
Bob, I pulled this short sentence from your post because (IMO) it is possibly the best 'rule to live by' that has ever been posted to the internet . . .
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L.L., thank's it must have been a brain fart.............................Bob
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Bob,
On behalf of all the Kiwis & Aussies, I hereby give you the "Honorary Downunda Award". :-D :-) :-( :-o :? 8-) :lol: :x :-P :oops: :cry: :evil: :roll: :wink: :| :mrgreen: :cheers: :cheers:
Sid.
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Sid, why would a guy who excaped from a British Penal Colony to a halfway house Colony (N.Z.) move to Idaho (a Potato Colony)?
Anyway, thanks for what ever it is you just said (I think).............
Bob (a purveyer of Curley Cue Fries) :roll:
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Bob, sorry for all of your misfortune but I think this was what Sid was referering to:
If there was a mistake made, let's learn from it and get over it. . . . your misfortune that is!
Why the EXTENDED rant? :cry: I will ask you the same question I think others are wondering and I asked Otto---Are you off your meds?
Oh by the way it turns out he was!
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Sparky the extended rant was meant as not a sob story, but to note that we all have had problems on the salt, sometimes mechanical, sometimes self caused, sometimes by other racers acting like dickheads, sometimes by SCTA officials over stepping their bounds, but no matter what, we are all there to race, and after reading the first eight or ten posts (including a few of yours) Everything had been said at least four or five times and the topic seemed to be looking for someone to hang.
What I was attempting to point out, however long winded, was simply "lets let the SCTA official's get to the bottom of it, thats their job (even if it was one of their own), and get back to racing or at least talking about it, rather in adding more wood to the fire. Bob
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Bob,
Kiwi's & Aussie's are known for speaking their mind.
I came here for the salt 25yrs ago & worked with Al Teague. After I finished working on the Herbert-Steen liner in the 90's I settled near by in spudland.
Sid.
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From a earlier post I made, have any of you down loaded the Bonneville rookie orientation information on the SCTA-BNI web site. It all seems very clear to me what should be done. Nuff said.
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Darn it Sid, I was hoping it had to do with nickers inspection................ :roll:
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Don`t start with him, Bob, the nickers Inspection stories will curl your hair, or at the very least, un-hinge your pony tail. I also have refrained from posting on this topic, as I raised it with a couple of people way higher up the pole than myself during Speed Week, and am in two minds as to an approach to this. I`d like to suggest a couple of things, but will wait until I get some more feedback on my ruminations....
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Sparky the extended rant was meant as not a sob story, but to note that we all have had problems on the salt, sometimes mechanical, sometimes self caused, sometimes by other racers acting like dickheads, sometimes by SCTA officials over stepping their bounds, but no matter what, we are all there to race, and after reading the first eight or ten posts (including a few of yours) Everything had been said at least four or five times and the topic seemed to be looking for someone to hang.
What I was attempting to point out, however long winded, was simply "lets let the SCTA official's get to the bottom of it, thats their job (even if it was one of their own), and get back to racing or at least talking about it, rather in adding more wood to the fire. Bob
That's a good one :roll: ''lets let the SCTA officials get to the bottom of it''
More wood :? After being denied the 200 mph line [we hold the El Mirage AA/BGALT at 229 mph and had just turned 286 mph in the 1st mile at Bville but now an A motor] and no sense in running the 222 car from position 152 we left the car home. If you think that Troy and I weren't pissed off when we saw the Hot Rod Magazine Camaro up front in the 200 mph line, you live in lala land. Thanks Roy Creel :roll:
This was on Sat of 2 day meet in Nov [ have video ]
WAS DAVID FREIBURGER A ROOKIE :? Nathen :? I don't remember him at El Mirage.
Just another question for the SCTA officials [at the bottom] to get to the bottom.
JL222
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Good thing you guys don't remember a few years ago. A computer wiz from back east (Ohio I think) helped out setting up the electronics on a car. On her third pass ever she ended up in impound with a 300+ run. That's my version of the story!
Life ain't fair- get over it! Steve
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Good thing you guys don't remember a few years ago. A computer wiz from back east (Ohio I think) helped out setting up the electronics on a car. On her third pass ever she ended up in impound with a 300+ run. That's my version of the story!
Life ain't fair- get over it! Steve
You get over it. Just expect SCTA to follow their own rules.
Thats why shit like this happens, watch and learn, no comment from SCTA, after short while everything forgotten, you said it yourself.
JL222
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And we wonder why certain folks refuse to take part in this board :roll:?
I think this horse has been beaten into horsradish. Time to move on.
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And we wonder why certain folks refuse to take part in this board :roll:?
I think this horse has been beaten into horsradish. Time to move on.
Tman...ther's a robber in your house, go crawl under the bed and shut your eyes, untill he leaves, then after a 2 hr wait after he leaves,crawl out and see whats missing. Don't inform the cops or insurance they woun't like it.
P.S. life not fair getover it.
JL222
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My bad.
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http://underthehood.mahleclevite.com/?p=842
More (mis)information about this here. Really just makes me wonder how accurate any info regarding this subject is at this point. Run logs are messed up, one story says one thing, one story says another :?
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Darn, I need to shut up. Sorry.
I do not have the correct attitude to post on this board. I will continue to read, but posting here is not something I should be doing.
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This issue was discussed at length at last night's board meeting.
The outcome was that a person overstepped their authority, over rode Nathan's protest and proceeded to embarrass the SCTA officials and members. The President will be having a one on one conversation with this indivdual. The board of the SCTA and BNI apologize to everyone involved, rookies, veteran racers and the cast of volunteers who make Speed Week the great event it is.
The board will make every effort to follow the association rules and make our events the best they can be.
DW
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Dan, hopefully speaking for most of us, thank you for posting this information quickly and hopefully dousing the campfire.
If we could all just try to keep our focus on the goal line; having a safe, well run racing season, and helping each other (and the SCTA/BNI staff) do their best to make this happen,
nobody should end up with heartburn or hurt feelings.
Just to put this into perspective, The National Football League is trying to use replacement referees. What if all the SCTA event officials and workers said "the hell with it".
Where would we be then?
Although this incident has been a black eye to our sport, and although through the years there have been others, It may have been the "wake up" call we all needed, but lets try to make changes through our club rep's and keep the animosities to ourselves.
This sport exists only because of the help of each and every one of us. Bob
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Dan, Thank you for keeping us up to date and letting us know there was a reaction.
Don
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Thanks Dan.
Can this tread go to sleep now?
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Thanks Dan, and thanks to the board for taking this up---sure doesn't suprise me about Nate. One will meet few in life that will treat them straighter and more impartial than my experiences with Nate.
For Dan, Nate and the Board :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Nitey night
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Thanks for the update Dan!
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Well actually today is the first I heard of this thread so I thought I'd give you my side of the story. I want to make it perfectly clear that Jason & I attended the WHOLE rookie meeting and after it was over Nathan gave him the rookie sticker for his helmet. We asked and recieved an ok to run on the 3 mile coarse and were able to start @ 175. It does say in the rookie orientation booklet that sometimes exceptions are made on the runs required and it is looked at on a case by case basis. I asked for that exception based on the trucks previous performance and the fact that Jason had alot of racing experience ( other than salt ). Here where it gets messy. When we were able to make our first run at 175 we decided to put the gear in that we would put in for the faster runs. It was a rush to get it done and we screwed up and put the 3.18 in instead of a 3.33. It's not a big difference but probaby around 10 mph which still would be 10 over so we were still above what we should have run. I'm not giving excuses, just the facts the way it happened. Jason runs 194 on his first run and the starter would not sign off until then we were told to go back up and run under 175, he went 171. We got signed off on the up to 175 run and up to 200 run. Typically the next license run would be up to 250 but we were told to keep it 210-215 ( + or - ) not up to 250. He went 217 at the 4 and then eased the throttle to run a 213 at the 5. Then after that we could make a full run. I do not think the SCTA did anything out of the ordinary based on their guidlines that showed us favoritism. We certainly did not go there with the intention of getting away with anything and it's my personal opinon that because WE SCREWED UP that it cost us a higher record due to the fact they did limit our speed. I apoligize for any hard feelings this may have caused.
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Wayne, thanks for your side of the story. I think both sides have learned a lesson. BTW. congrats to Jason and you on the record. :cheers:
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On another note someone questioned the bumper on the truck. The truck has a complete SRT 10 package on it which has a splitter type front bumper on it. The MP class falls under the Gas Coupe rules which allows a front air dam from the leading edge of the front bumper dowm. I hope that clarifies the way it looks.
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We appreciate your comments, thanks.
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Thanx Wayne, and although I am sure some still have doubt's, I think that anyone that knows you, and knows the SCTA personel involved (and I DO), it is what it is.
As I said in a earlier post, lets accept the facts for what they are, learn from it, and move on.
I only know Jason from his drag racing tv interviews, but he sure doesn't present himself as a person who would try to screw anyone.
And although I can't stand Greg Anderson (what can I say), they actually tune each others cars, so if Jason wins, Greg tuned it.
Now if that isn't a first, I will eat my brand new red SCTA hat.
I have already expressed my opinions on Wayne and how he helped me to diagnose a problem unrelated to His companies valve train that cost me a couple of grand (which is a hell of a lot for a guy racing on Social Security, a modest Union pension, and a few sponsors who help with the nuts and bolts, etc.
I am neither bragging or complaining when I say that every dime I have is either invested in my car or spent trying to hit the record (actually I don't give a rats Acura about the record, although it would be nice), But what my personal goal is, is to be the first Loewy stock bodied Stude coupe to go over 250 and do it without a blower.
We thought we had a handle on the motor three years ago when we installed a Jesel valve train, but due to a set of Comp Cam lifters with the oil holes drilled at the wrong height, Everything went to Subaru real quick.
Wayne not only came over and gave his opinion but called my engine builder right on the spot and gave him support through out the fix.
If fortune smiles on me and we have good salt and weather, you may be lucky enough to see "one mother fast Studebaker (if the driver can keep up with the car) at the WF, and although I owe a lot of thanks to my engine builder, Virgil Hanson, without Waynes peronal help, I would most likely be known forever as "One Run Bob" which Marlo says is for life no matter how many runs I make...... Bob
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Wayne its for the mile-- and not at the mile. Which did you use for the record the 13 or the 17? Look at UPside benefit-- there are several more comp. hats left in this combo!!! :roll:
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I followed this thread now since I be back home.
Thanks to Bockscar team I'm not anymore a rookie as a driver and I also make it with the big help from the team into the record book, I like to make a comment on the rookie situation....
Jason, congrats to your record....and maybe the luck was on your side....and everything went well....
but unfortunately you be a very bad example for the coming rookie generation.
With my background from my work and with all the years at the salt....maybe I was better prepared to run a racer at the salt as you.
But I done my rookie orientation and listen to Nathan....and he done a great job....especially for the team who be for the very first time at the salt....he not only gave good advices to the racer but also for the teams who has to take care that the racers goes safe down the course....well done, mate.
I done the rookie orientation with the company of Stainless, just in case that my bad English would be not good enought to follow all.
After I had picked up my rookie sticker....Stainless done at first two runs, that he could be sure that the lakester is well prepared for me as a rookie.
I done my rookie run to get the feeling for the car....I was glad that I was not fast enough to go straight to the C license.....and could make another pass for my D license.
During my D license run I saw on the GPS that I was close to the 150 mph...so I lift the pedal to take care for the rules.....I managed a 147.7 for the 2 1/4 and a 145 for the third mile....as the starter always said...a gas pedal got two direction...and both are allowed to use....
When I done my C license I hit a deep hole in the course.....and I said thanks to my D license run...without them I would never had a chance to overcome this situation...just thinking if this happens directly after my rookie run....
Next morning I talked to Lee Kennedy.....base on my experience I said to him....that it's hard for me, to understand, how they let racer making the C license run direct after the rookie run, when they reached a speed between 125 and 150 mph on the rookie run.....especially in cars like a lakester or a streamliner....this is a totally different experience than any normal sit in car.....
At my B license run everything went so well that I got the chance to make 200 mph in the fifth mile....which would had me qualified for the return run.....the GPS showed me a speed around 196 mph when I went through the four mile marker....and I shift into the fifth gear to protect the engine and coasted with a 195 mph through the five to get my B license.....and Doug the starter had a big smile in his face.....
The following runs never got me my A license....I done my A license on my record return run on Friday morning....but my seat time in the car was important....on each run I improved my driving skill.....especially on Wednesday afternoon during my 7th run....I was glad that I got meanwhile a much better experience with the driving of the lakester and not to use only luck to overcame a critical situation by the extremely rough and bad course.....
Without all this run I would not have finished my record run....but on Friday morning I was prepared to overcome some situation and during the run with all the minor troubles I always had the control over the lakester....and the thumb above the parachute button if something happens.
If we like to have safe runs at the salt....the today rookie procedure is a must....and it is doesn't matter what you drove before and how fast you drove before....salt is SO different to any other surface you can drive.....
Keep this going and take care that it stays so....just for the safety and that we shows not up with picture on the first page of the newspaper....we like to have positive advertisment for our sport we love.
Have a safe and successful season
Pork Pie
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Bob D, it's over quit whining. :roll:
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I'm with Glen on this. It's a done deal. Nothing bad happened. Since the rules apparently allow for a judgement call in these instances. And the call turned out well. Why not just move on? The point has been made.
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If I may, one last comment on this subject.
Wayne's account of the story is how I heard it. Jason was forced to rerun his 175 pass, then moved on to bigger and better speeds within the rules and under authority. How this subeject got to Jason running well in excess of 220 on his first pass is unknown to me.
Thank you Wayne for the clarification.
Lets move on. The bikes are on the salt now, then WEoS then Cook Shootout and finally the WF to close the season.
We can close now Slim,
DW
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Sure is some cranky old men around here.. :roll:
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Per the Mayor's request :cheers: