Landracing Forum
Tech Information => EFI Questions => Topic started by: NathanStewart on June 04, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
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I thought I'd start my own thread on this little project we've got going. The wiring was 90% complete and enough to get it up and running a couple weeks ago. Paid another visit and spent some more time getting the four EGT probes wired up to the thermocouple amplifier and a Bosch flat response "wideband" knock sensor installed. Put it up on jack stands and ran it through the gears a few times. Here's a couple quick vids:
START UP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxpKeLtlBIE&feature=relmfu) - One of the immediately noticeable changes is how well the motor starts now. We used to have to squirt fuel down the intake and crank it over before the old Hilborn pump made enough pressure to inject enough fuel to start the engine. Now you just reach in, flip on the ignition switch and start it. Much, much better.
WALK AROUND (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzIngxJbQRs&feature=relmfu) - Just a little show of what we're working with.
Parts list:
AEM EMS-4 (the brains of the operation)
AEM EPM (engine position module - cam & crank signal for the EMS)
AEM 4 Channel Wideband O2 Module (has one O2 sensor per exhaust port)
AEM 4 Channel EGT Amplifier (has one K-type thermocouple per exhaust port)
AEM AQ-1 Data Logger (records all data channels from the EMS and 4 Ch O2 over CAN-BUS data stream along with accelerometer and GPS data)
AEM Fuel Pressure Regulator (two actually - one to control fuel pressure and one setup as a dead-head pressure damper)
AEM High Flow Fuel Filter
Edelbrock 75mm Mustang throttle body with IAC delete
1600cc/min high impedance fuel injectors (need big injectors for the turbo that will be going on later)
JayRacing Super 044 Fuel Pump (similar to Bosch 044 pump but with ceramic internals)
GM LS truck coils
Bosch Knock Sensor
We'll be dyno tuning it in two weeks and then the whole assembly goes into the Creel lakester for Speed Week. I'll let you know if it stays together long enough to get a decent tune out of it. :-D
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Nathen
I didn't think EFI and turbo's were allowed in the V4 classes, as I read it only with vintage bodies. I know we wanted to run a Donovan block in the streamliner and they said NO. Regardless it should be interesting to see the HP and on the salt. :-D
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Cool! :cheers:
Looking forward to seeing it on the salt.
Mike
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Lots of wires!
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Tell us about the motor parts, too.
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Streamliners and lakesters are exempt from that rule. Special Construction Category, not Vintage.
DW
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But, as Dan knows, there are Vintage Engine categories within the Special Construction area.
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Hence not being able to use the Donovan block.
Thats is a nice looking setup Nathan, will it come up to Elmo for shake down?
Just working on butterflies and fuel rail.
John
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Tell us about the motor parts, too.
Well the motor that this is all on now is our "mule". It's a B block, counterweighted stock crank, warmed over stock rods, SBC pistons (4" bore), custom grind cam, cam supports, big valves, hogged out ports, external belt drive oil pump, an original cast iron Winfield head (complete with cracks and brazed repairs), billet 10,000RPM flywheel and clutch, aaaand I think that's about it. This same hardware has gotten us 140+ without a turbo and 155+ with a turbo and an almost immeasurable amount of boost.
This is just the first part in a very long saga. So first, the idea is to get this thing tuned on EFI and get everything dialed in. We have a "killer" motor in the works which includes a 5 main girdle, billet crank, billet rods, custom pistons, etc. The last thing we wanted to do was hurt the "killer" motor on the dyno while we were trying to dial in the EFI thus the reason for running the combo that we have now. We've blown up so many B's that destroying another one won't be such a big deal but killing your "killer" race motor with big bucks billet parts would be bad. The original plan was to tune the mule motor and then transfer everything over to the "killer", tune it with the turbo, and then put it in our new streamliner and go for 200.
Well we got the itch to run something again at Bonneville (I think it's been 5 years since we ran last) so we decided that if this motor doesn't self destruct on the dyno we'll take it to Speed Week and see how we do in V4F/GL. We hold the fuel record (ran on gas) at 140 which is already higher than the gas record soooo.... not saying it'll be easy but we're hoping to run as fast on EFI naturally aspirated as we did before with the turbo and an untuned mechanical injection system.
If the streamliner isn't done in time we'll just keep running the lakester. The reason we're tuning with the roadster is because the lakester is more or less direct drive (auto trans with manual valve body and no torque converter). We'll be tuning on a chassis dyno that requires being able to start from zero which the lakester can't do.
No shake downs planned for El Mirage. If it's going to blow it's going to do it on the salt. Actually our biggest concern is keeping the flywheel on the crank and not so much blowing it up. The achilles heel of the stock crank is the flange and we've cut a few motors in half after the flange breaks and the crank free revs to 7000 rpm or so and all the rods let go and take out the block. Yeah, we don't like it when that happens.
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Sounds killer nate! Even on jackstands though that scares me. We lost a local racer here when his altered got away from him in that situation. We/I never fire a racecar without strapping in and after Tom died, we keep at least an open faced helmet around for the guy inside, helps with the sound as well.
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I've seen people warm up on only a floor jack. Now that's scary.
Two heavy duty jack stands firmly planted on hard concrete under a Model B making not much power is pretty safe in my mind. Besides, if it ever did hop off the jacks, the flywheel would snap off the back of the crank as soon as the tires hit the ground. :roll:
Also, it seems like the guy in the car rarely gets hurt. It's always the 22 people he mowed over while doing a burnout in a parade that seem to get hurt.
Anyways...
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Toms throttle stuck and he would have survived hitting the tree next to the shop but his bare head hit the cage :cry:
But, sorry to hi-jack. What you have done with that engine is awesome. Gives me hope for that banger I have sitting on blocks for future use.
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Nice job Nathan!! You know a pro is in charge of the EFI when something that radical starts up like a brand new cadillac :cheers:
True sequential makes the siamese ports issue completely go away, from the sound of it?
-Scott
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Nice job Nathan!! You know a pro is in charge of the EFI when something that radical starts up like a brand new cadillac
I knew you'd be the right fellow that would appreciate that!
True sequential makes the siamese ports issue completely go away, from the sound of it?
Supposedly. There's a group in the UK that makes ECU's for older Mini's that also have siamesed intake ports and they've reportedly been able to fix the problem with precise injection timing/advance. We'll just have to replicate the same thing.
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There's a group in the UK that makes ECU's for older Mini's that also have siamesed intake ports and they've reportedly been able to fix the problem with precise injection timing/advance. We'll just have to replicate the same thing.
A few of the megasquirt guys also wrote custom code for a Microsquirt to do siamesed sequential EFI on the Mini engines raced in vintage classes (or wherever).
Based on my experience (siamesed intakes in a stock-head Jimmy Six 302cid engine, and siamesed intakes on the Buick XXO straight 8 engine), I would speculate that if you aren't fouling plugs at idle then it's working very good. From the sound of that engine, all 4 jugs sound happy to me at idle. Really happy.
Some other nerdy fun, keep track of your fuel economy per run and compare it to what the MFI was doing. We're burning just a little over half what the carbs used to burn, per pass, in the #1001 Daytona Charger (the orange winged car, our N/A A/Production car). Only EFI dorks appreciate it but, it's interesting stuff.
Must feel good knowing that the tune you put on the engine down at your lower DA will translate exactly up at the crazy DAs we see at Bonneville. I see mine making 14-17% changes in fuel, maintaining AFRs, and wonder how the guys tuning carbs or MFI get their tunes right - which makes me appreciate their skills a lot more.
Keep those progress vids coming, I can't wait to see this thing run on the salt. My gut says you guys are going to lay waste to whatever records you run on.
-Scott
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I really enjoy seeing older engines adapted with EFI. Thanks for sharing, I'll look forward to seeing updates.
Bob Holmes
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Actually our biggest concern is keeping the flywheel on the crank and not so much blowing it up. The achilles heel of the stock crank is the flange and we've cut a few motors in half after the flange breaks and the crank free revs to 7000 rpm or so and all the rods let go and take out the block. Yeah, we don't like it when that happens.
^^Well I hate to sound like a pessimist but I am a realist and can't hope for something that I know isn't going to happen. Our biggest concerns wound up materializing for us yesterday when the flange broke off the back of the crank at the end of a WOT pull. But not all was lost... absolutely not. At a minimum we learned a LOT plus we were hitting our power target which was very affirming. So here's how it went...
We did some initial tuning on Friday after work and by time we had called it wraps for the night we were already making half throttle power pulls and seeing good results. Surprisingly, it didn't take quite as much time to get the injector phasing and advance stuff dialed in. It's by no means dead-on perfect but I think it's a hundred times better than before so it seems like just having sequential fuel delivery made a huge difference by itself. I'd say our proof of concept has been validated. :cheers:
On Saturday morning we started right back at it again bright and early and it wasn't long before we got into doing WOT pulls. We had bought 10 gallons of the 101 octane unleaded gas that ERC has at the June El Mirage meet thinking it was more than we would need. Well we wound up running out about mid day and had to get something to keep going. Luckily I knew of a place near by that was a VP dealer so we picked up 5 gallons of their 100 octane "street blaze" gas. Oh boy did changing the gas make a huge difference - for the worse. It was running really sweet on the ERC gas and it sounded fat and blubbery on the VP but I made some changes to the fuel map to compensate and we carried on.
The goal was 150 crank hp. Working backwards from our power goal, I figured on 10% drivetrain loss and the Mustang dyno we were tuning on reads absurdly low... like 15-20% low. A known 400 hp car will come to our dyno and make 300 whp. Anyways, so 150 hp would be 135 hp to the wheels minus 20% power on the heart breaker dyno puts us at 108 whp and we were making 110 whp very consistently. We were like "wow, we're actually doing what we wanted to do... cool." I was trying to get the AFRs dialed in a little better on the top end and then BANG, the flywheel broke loose. All of a sudden there was lots of black smoke and sparks and a whole lot of noise and then it was quiet... very quiet.
After it was all said and done I went back through and counted all my data logs and there were 47 and I know I didn't log every single run so we had some 50+ runs on this motor before the crank let go. Honestly, I'm glad it happened on the dyno and not on our first pass down the track or on record runs or something. What usually happens in this instance is what I described in the quote above; the crank free revs to some absurd rpm and then the rods let go and we totally destroy the motor. Well this time it revved to about 6000 rpm and then the limiters kicked in and kept it from going higher so all the rods are still inside the block and hopefully not hurt.
It looks like Speed Week is out for us this year. I think after breaking who knows how may cranks we're finally done screwing around with stock crankshafts. They are just too much of a liability to even mess with once you're making this kind of power. We don't exactly know what our next step is but we want to get back at it soon.
Here are some vids from the dyno. Sorry about them being so short; I had someone else working the camera.
VIDEO 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dMOx-u6HGk&feature=relmfu) Eeeehh this was a camera test. Oops.
VIDEO 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qadWkw1FojA&feature=relmfu) Running it up through the gears. The o-scope is showing you a clue to our key tuning point.
VIDEO 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEqz_WVTTc&feature=relmfu) WOT pull to 5000 rpm. The smoke is water spritzing out of the cracks in the head and onto the headers. :roll:
VIDEO 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y7g-kx0je8&feature=relmfu) Another WOT pull to 5000 rpm; I was getting a shower standing over there.
VIDEO 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQHMeb88wPM&feature=relmfu) Partial pull; I had figured the alternator wasn't working when my battery volts at idle was less than 12. Well it was confirmed when the voltage dropped below 8 volts in the middle of this run and everything started to go lean. Shut the motor off then tried to crank it over and all we got was a click. Dead battery. Swapped it out for another one and kept going.
So that's it. Our mule was pretty short lived but it served its purpose and now its legs have fallen off and it can't go any more. We should be able to drop this tune into our next motor and keep going. Things should really start to get fun once we get the turbo back on. :evil:
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Dad looks plenty courageous standing in the flywheel plane, knowing the history of the rear main.
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He's part honey badger.
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Nice!!
reminds me of sorting out the Fireball 8 buick, happy with the tune and on the last pull - all hell breaks loose. It happens.
I am anxious to hear how the turbo version comes along, keep us posted!
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Nathan,
sorry to hear the crank let go, not bad for putting out about 3 times the design HP.
Did you have to do anything other than just use the injector trim functions to balance out AFR for 1-2, 3-4?
I assume the O-scope was the showing injector pulses for 1 and 2.
John
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It wasn't so much trims (as in a percentage trim +/- based on the base injector pulse width) as it was timing/phasing (when the injector actually opens) and advance (changing when the injector opens based on engine speed/air flow). The scope is showing the injector pulse in relation to the cam sync pulse that's been setup to trigger at TDC exhaust which is right when the intake valve starts to open. Basically I'm making sure that the fuel pulse is occuring while the intake valve is open. When 2 & 3 start to trend lean while 1 & 4 are still good I know that my injection advance is off and needs to be adjusted. If only one of them goes lean or rich I then trim that one cylinder up or down to match the others.
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Nathan, did you base your injection timing on "end of event" or "beginning of event" - and where did you place the injection overlap? I.e., the intake valve is open approx 25% of the engine cycle, but the injectors are (presumably) open longer than that. Did you put the excess squirt at the beginning while the valve was closed, or at the end after it closed? I am guess the beginning but curious to hear since you are the first guy I know to put a 'scope on a siamesed intake engine.
And again, very, very nice work. Your team probably has no idea how lucky they are to have you working the EFI. That kind of homework is big bucks if you are buying it at street prices :-)
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Nathan,
I follow, and it makes sense.
I was thinking more along the starvation of 2 and 3 as loss of air comparitively to 1-4.
My thoughts were more to changing the cam timing to allow for more on 2-3 and narrow up 1-4.
Good work, keep us EFI nuts informed.
John
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The AEM EMS is fundamentally a "start of injection" injection system. I had done the math based on the cam specs and found that at 6000 rpm (our absolute max possible engine speed) the intake valve was open 12ms which means I had to be able to deliver all of my fuel in 12ms valve open time divided by 20ms cycle time which is 60% duty. Our target horse power level with the turbo is 300 hp so I have to be able to deliver 300hp worth of fuel but I'm limited to that 60% duty again. This meant I had to use really big injectors (1600cc) to make a fairly low level of power. I also did some rough calcs to come up with port velocity to try and figure out how long it'd take for the gas to leave the injector and reach the valve. Calculated speed was an inch per ms and it's roughly 3 inches between the injector and the valve so I started with 3ms of advance (as measured on the o-scope) and went from there.
Then it was just a matter of getting the fuel pulse "right" enough to make the AFRs generally acceptable and then I played with the injector advance until the AFRs were more consistent across all cylinders. So because I'm using a start of injection system it inherently takes a little bit longer to get everything setup correctly when I could just dial in an injector closing point with an end of injection system but that's what I have to work with and I was able to make it work so in the end it's all good. The advance is only 2d based on rpm but it'd be nice to have a 3d map that's also based on load. Everything will be spot on in high load/wot but a little off in lower load states which we think is okay.
I would best describe the final setup as a "middle of injection" injection system. I had thought that it would want a fixed end of injection point which required a lot of advance with bigger pulse widths but the motor didn't seem to like this. By the time we were done with it it was really the middle of the injection event that stayed pretty consistent. We'll see if that still holds true once we go boosted.
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Big injectors for that amount of power is right whew. Sounds like it idles ok. What kind of pulse width you running at idle? What kind of AFR's? Just wondering if you had trouble keeping it in check with those bigguns. Will you be able to hit your target HP boosted or will you need to add injectors to the setup? How was the fuel run? I didn't understand the two Reg's with one being dead headed, or are you running secondary injector set up with bigs and littles injectors?
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Interesting stuff to read Nathan for someone that knows nothing about EFI
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Wayno,
I think Nathan is right that because they are tuning for WOT at 300 hp the big injector works. Doing a little, pie are square-three bags full, fuel flow for the 300 hp turbo set up needs to be around 180 lbs/hr, assuming a BSF of .6 lbs/hp-hr (a little rich but it makes it safe for a turbo). If you sized an injector for just these parameters you would need something in the 5-600 cc/min size but Nathan wants to inject all of the fuel during the inlet valve event so you need the big injector. Probably wouldn't run well on the street but it is looking right for the WOT application.
Nathan, what fuel pressure are you running? You state that you are running two regulators with one to regulate fuel pressure and the other as a dampener. I assume that you are thinking that there are pressure ripples from the fuel pump (?)Regulators make pretty poor dampeners and they certainly cannot respond at the frequency of the fuel pump output. You would be better off to run a piece of rubber hose in place of the "dampener" regulator and plug the end the added capacitance will be enough to reduce the pump ripple to almost nothing. To check what the pump ripple is you will need a high response pressure transducer probably 0 to 250 psi and a scope or laptop with soft ware to be able to read it . All of the Bosch style fuel pumps are a type of vane or gear pump so pressure ripple it at the number of vanes or gear teeth and as the pressure goes up the ripple drops because the internal leakage goes up and acts as a dampener.
Rex
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Wayno,
I think Nathan is right that because they are tuning for WOT at 300 hp the big injector works. Doing a little, pie are square-three bags full, fuel flow for the 300 hp turbo set up needs to be around 180 lbs/hr, assuming a BSF of .6 lbs/hp-hr (a little rich but it makes it safe for a turbo). If you sized an injector for just these parameters you would need something in the 5-600 cc/min size but Nathan wants to inject all of the fuel during the inlet valve event so you need the big injector. Probably wouldn't run well on the street but it is looking right for the WOT application.
Speaking from actual experience, if you have your dead time well mapped, it's not hard at all to get good street manners out of injectors sized in this method.
Nathan, what fuel pressure are you running? You state that you are running two regulators with one to regulate fuel pressure and the other as a dampener. I assume that you are thinking that there are pressure ripples from the fuel pump (?)Regulators make pretty poor dampeners and they certainly cannot respond at the frequency of the fuel pump output. You would be better off to run a piece of rubber hose in place of the "dampener" regulator and plug the end the added capacitance will be enough to reduce the pump ripple to almost nothing. To check what the pump ripple is you will need a high response pressure transducer probably 0 to 250 psi and a scope or laptop with soft ware to be able to read it . All of the Bosch style fuel pumps are a type of vane or gear pump so pressure ripple it at the number of vanes or gear teeth and as the pressure goes up the ripple drops because the internal leakage goes up and acts as a dampener.
Rex
Pretty sure he's damping pulses from the injection events, not the fuel pump.
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Dieselgek,
I had not thought about that but it does make some sense, still when he turbos the engine he will have to pilot both the pressure control valve and also the "dampener" valve from the inlet plenum to keep the differential pressure constant across the injectors, and I can see the "dampener" valve not wanting to respond as fast as may be required. It will be fun to see what happens. Keep at it Nathan we are all waiting!!!!
Rex
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Big injectors for that amount of power is right whew. Sounds like it idles ok. What kind of pulse width you running at idle? What kind of AFR's? Just wondering if you had trouble keeping it in check with those bigguns. Will you be able to hit your target HP boosted or will you need to add injectors to the setup? How was the fuel run? I didn't understand the two Reg's with one being dead headed, or are you running secondary injector set up with bigs and littles injectors?
Idles at about 1ms and 12-13:1 AFR. It bounces because of the overlap. The tune is more or less stupid rich (10's) but the engine sounds very happy plus it's making the power we wanted. We've had lots of problems with heat issues and pre-ignition in the past and I'd rather run it on the rich and safe side versus trying to push it for only a few extra horsepower. The injectors have been sized to provide enough fuel to make 300hp at ~60psi of pressure and 60% duty cycle with a BSFC of 1 (for E85). No room for secondary injectors; they've got to be perfectly positioned to only supply fuel into their respective cylinders. If I added a second set of injectors they'd be further up the runner which would only lead back to the original problem of one cylinder stealing fuel from the other.
The second regulator is being used as a dampener and so far it appears to work very well.
Nathan, what fuel pressure are you running? You state that you are running two regulators with one to regulate fuel pressure and the other as a dampener. I assume that you are thinking that there are pressure ripples from the fuel pump (?)Regulators make pretty poor dampeners and they certainly cannot respond at the frequency of the fuel pump output. You would be better off to run a piece of rubber hose in place of the "dampener" regulator and plug the end the added capacitance will be enough to reduce the pump ripple to almost nothing. To check what the pump ripple is you will need a high response pressure transducer probably 0 to 250 psi and a scope or laptop with soft ware to be able to read it . All of the Bosch style fuel pumps are a type of vane or gear pump so pressure ripple it at the number of vanes or gear teeth and as the pressure goes up the ripple drops because the internal leakage goes up and acts as a dampener.
Rex, we're running 40 psi of pressure now. As I mentioned above, the current setup is working very well to stabilize fuel pressure and Scott is correct; I'm trying to dampen out the pulses from the injectors opening and closing. I have a sensor in the line that's being sampled by the ECU at 125hz so I'm getting lots of data and surprisingly enough it's very smooth. Not bad for just an idea that we tried on a whim. I only found one or two universal aftermarket fuel pressure dampeners and realized that it's nothing more than a diaphragm and spring which is exactly what's in a fuel pressure regulator and what do you know it works.
I have the option to reference the top side of the dampener diaphragm to manifold pressure but for now it's open to atmosphere. I'll try both way once we put the turbo on and see which way works best. I can also adjust the spring pre-load as well.
BTW it looks like we're moving on to the 5 main crank. Not sure if it'll just be the 5 main crank in the 3 main block or if we'll do the full girdle too.
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Nathan,
You almost have to reference the control side of the pressure control valve to manifold pressure in a turbo set up or it will be almost impossible to get the correct tune. The injector is an orifice and the flow through an orifice is proportional to the square root of the pressure differential, so if your fuel pressure is at 40 psi and your manifold pressure goes to 15 psi then the differential pressure will be 25 psi and the fuel flow through the injector will be reduce by about 20% and you will find that aluminum form the top of the piston is a pretty poor fuel. You certainly could set your fuel curve to compensate for this but it would only be accurate at one differential pressure. On my little 2 liter Zetec engine in my modified I reference the control pressure to the intake manifold, it is normally aspirated, and it made a big difference in the mid range drive ability,something you probably not concerned with.
Another thought is running a smaller injector at a higher pressure (dieselgek please comment here as I am sure you have probable done this) which should give you better resolution on your tune up. If you ran at 60 psi you could then run an injector that would be 22% smaller and get the same flow. I am not sure what the maximum pressure that the Bosch style pump will run at but I have ran my Bosch pump at 75 psi before and did not have a problem.
Regarding your use of a second pressure regulator as a dampener, as you said the part that does the dampening is the diaphragm in the valve, using a piece of -6 hose with a plug in the end and tee ed into the very end of the fuel rail would do the exact same thing and be cheaper and probably do a better job. That is a trick from my old hydraulic engineering days,we used this as a fix for a control problem on a 5000 psi pump, worked every time.
Rex
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Rex, I'm fully aware of the need to reference the fuel pressure regulator to manifold pressure. I think you misread my post; I have the option of referencing the dampener to manifold pressure if needed (now it's open to atmosphere). The fuel pressure regulator has always been referenced to manifold pressure.
This may be my first time (or thee first time for that matter) putting EFI on a siamesed intake port four banger flathead but this ain't my first rodeo.
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Just curious. Why didn't you go direct injection? It's been available at junkyards for 4-cyl turbos for a few years now.
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Just curious. Why didn't you go direct injection? It's been available at junkyards for 4-cyl turbos for a few years now.
DI requires a ridiculous amount of testing and development of chamber & piston design. For basically no reward, you end up spending a million bucks... there are a ton of other problems with it as well. DI fuel injection systems, like your diesel, rely more on fuel pressure management than pulsewidth management for fuel quantity. Developing that, and the electronics to control it, is prohibitive, especially when the reward is "better emissions during warmup" or similar OEM goals.
DI really isn't on the radar for hotrod gas engines any time soon, unless you're Katech or a Formula One team.
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Scott hit it on the head. Entirely prohibitive for something of this level.
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Nate are you using an Infinity system on this engine? or Series II or I?
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EMS-4 which is based on the Series 2 platform. FWIW the Infinity is slated to do DI. I might step up to the Infinity once we go boosted because of its additional capabilities over the existing platform but for now the EMS-4 works great.
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just making sure you don't get to use an Infinity too much before us lowlifes here in the midwest :-)
can't wait to get my hands on one,
-Scott
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Nathan,
Really sounds like you have a handle on this thing, I don't know if you are the first guy to do the electronic injection on a two port head especially with your design to get all of the fuel into each cylinder specifically when the intake valve event is happening but in I know some 3 port GMC guys that are sure interested in what you are doing. Can't wait to see what it does with the hair dryer on it.
Rex
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No ports in my head Rex. It's a frathead, remember? :-D
There's a group in the UK that's been using their own custom EFI on 5 port (two intakes, 3 exhaust) Mini's and honestly they were the genesis behind this whole idea. I've yet to come across another two port, four cylinder flathead with sequential EFI. Not sayin, just sayin'. :wink:
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No ports in my head Rex. It's a frathead, remember? :-D
There's a group in the UK that's been using their own custom EFI on 5 port (two intakes, 3 exhaust) Mini's and honestly they were the genesis behind this whole idea. I've yet to come across another two port, four cylinder flathead with sequential EFI. Not sayin, just sayin'. :wink:
Are those the guys using megasquirt/microsquirt? Lots of guys using it in the UK on mini engines, must be them. http://www.jbperf.com/sequential/index.html (http://www.jbperf.com/sequential/index.html)
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"There are 2 injection modes specifically designed for siamese-port engines such as the A-series engine of the classic Mini and the B-series engine of the MGB. Since these engines have 2 intake ports for a 4-cylinder engine with the cylinders paired having 180 and 540 crankshaft degrees between the firing events, there is a need to have injection timed in a very specific manner and two modes are provided to do semi-sequential injection which does not require a cam sensor and full sequential injection which requires a cam sensor. More information on the peculiarities of port injecting a siamese-port engine can be found here."
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Nathan:
Do you know what they're running on the Matrix Machine? I was under the impression that it has efi. :?
Mike
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Are those the guys using megasquirt/microsquirt? Lots of guys using it in the UK on mini engines, must be them. http://www.jbperf.com/sequential/index.html (http://www.jbperf.com/sequential/index.html)
Nah, these guys: http://www.canems.co.uk/siameseports.php
Mike, Joel's T has 4 intake ports. Very trick motor.
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Nathan,
Really sounds like you have a handle on this thing, I don't know if you are the first guy to do the electronic injection on a two port head especially with your design to get all of the fuel into each cylinder specifically when the intake valve event is happening but in I know some 3 port GMC guys that are sure interested in what you are doing. Can't wait to see what it does with the hair dryer on it.
Rex
There is a Chevy 6 guy interested in this stuff as well!
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Tman, look at the GMC I did using efi, it's under Non LSR-Posts/currect project by GH. Dieselgeek is my tuner on this and the Stude #787.
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Well gang, we're going for it. The motor's already out and apart and the 5 main crank is being fitted. I didn't realize that our 3 main crank had actually had the flanged welded up but apparently that mod is only good up to 160hp if that means anything. We'll drop in the last known good cal that I tuned on the ERC gas and make a couple easy passes before going for it.
Here's to thrashing. :cheers:
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NICE!
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Update
We're up and running! :-D
Got everything swapped over from the roadster and into the lakester... that is of course after the new crankshaft was dropped in. Got everything wired up; EMS, 4 channel O2, 4 channel EGT, datalogger, GPS, AIM dash etc etc. Dropped in the last known good cal, double checked the timing sync and it fired up on the first crank.
Starting out with a couple part throttle passes and then shooting for 140 and if all goes well maybe 150. Wish us luck and see ya on the salt.
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Good Luck Nate ......wish I was ready to give you some competition..............!
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Very cool Nate!!!! See you next week :-o
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There is a Chevy 6 guy interested in this stuff as well!
And a 5 port BMC guy.
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There is a Chevy 6 guy interested in this stuff as well!
And a 5 port BMC guy.
I'm willing to travel to do setups and tuning. Just let me know.
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There is a Chevy 6 guy interested in this stuff as well!
And a 5 port BMC guy.
I'm willing to travel to do setups and tuning. Just let me know.
In time Nate, in time.
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Well, we did it. :-D
The short story: we bumped the record to 150.2xx mph. :-o
I'll get to the long story later but we faced some technical difficulties - none of which came from the electronics! Something about using a severely cracked 70 year old cast iron Winfield head and blown out head gaskets. :roll:
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Way to go Nate! was good seeing you on at the driver's meeting too. Congrats on a record!
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Thanks Scott... nice seeing you as well. When they called out a 150 speed over the radio I just about did a back flip! To say I was elated is an under statement. I'm still smiling and shaking my head in disbelief that we actually did it.