Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: landracing on March 31, 2006, 09:36:48 PM
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Im to pressed for precious hours in the day to make a new website for this project or keep it updated so here are a bunch of pictures for this years project... Hope you like them
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/turbo1.jpg)
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/turbo5.jpg)
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I mounted a frame in an engine stand to better be able to work on system, added the motor, added the body work subframe we built, and then the body. Now I can better work on plumbing for the intercooler with all those mounted to check spacing.
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/frame1.jpg)
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/body2.jpg)
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Awesome, data logger and all, I need one of those..gotta hit Dave up since he is the man.
Anymore pics?
J
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Well progress is shown sometimes in baby steps. Here are some that I finished the last couple of days. My friends from Mountain States Automation have been helping me with some machining and welding.
Ok I finished this last week. But here is a picture of a newer model ZX6E crank setup in ZX6D cases. I had to change cranks because in the D Model the big ends were 36mm and the set of rods I got (for next to nothing) fit a newer model crank which the big ends were 33 mm. I fitted the newer crank with a new set of Carrillo rods and new main bearings across the board. I am waiting on a set of pistons from JE Pistons. If you happen to need some pistons done these guys are great... Well worth your time to inquire...
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/69.jpg)
Next I got a different intercooler. The issue with that was the end inlets were a massive 3" diameter. So what we did was milled off the end plate from outside to inside, made new plates and cut new 2" pipes and welded in place. So now 2" inlets instead of 3" inlets and this is the finished product.
This is a before picture:
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/before.jpg)
This is a after picture.
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/72.jpg)
Next I wanted to show the swingarm extensions they made from a block of aluminum. The reduced section of the extension fits into the stock swingarm and it mates up with a lip that fits flush against the stock swingarm then bolts thru the top of the stock bolt holes. This holds the swingarm extension into place and a single bolt goes thru to hold in the existing swingarm position, center. The other end they machined out an exact replica of what the inside of the stock swingarm looked like where the adjuster mechanism fitted. This is so we can utilize the stock adjuster. These give me 4"-6" extension.
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/73.jpg)
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/75.jpg)
Next is we have the new coil setup mounted in place. We used the mounting holes on the water pipe coming off the head. Used a stainless piece and just used a metal brake to give a 60 degree bend. Tapped holes to accept the coils and there you have the finished product. You also see the MXL dash unit installed.
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/70.jpg)
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/71.jpg)
Other things that have been done that is not worthy of pictures. Is I purchased a complete set of ceramic bearings. I installed one into the sprocket hub, and I am waiting on the frame, swingarm and wheels to get back to install the rest of the bearings.
Almost have the turbo finished, we took out the internal wastegate and we are in process of installing and external wastegate. By doing to I needed to divide the two chambers from wastegate side and exhaust side. Took some thinking to get this done. The exhaust housing is made from cast iron.. It was suggested NOT to weld a plate into the housing. So we threw around a bunch of different ideas. We finally decided on one and almost finshed with it, they have some milling to do yet and ill show the finished product when done.
Jon
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Nice pics and good progress, pistons should be done in a few days.
J
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Jon,
Cool work!
I'm trying to figure out why your digital dash is mounted where it is ....
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So I can see it. I have a very small viewing area out the front. Mounting it in front of the forks would block my vision. I can just clear the top of the dash with a line of sight when in full tuck.
Go up to the start of the post, and look at body2 image, rear view forward. You see I have small viewing area. Plus in the front I have airshifter bottle, fire system bottles plus a few extra gadgets, no room to mount it where I can see it good. Even If the other stuff wasnt there, then I would have to abandon my semi good tuck on the bike, so see over the triple tree and look down... I dont want me head that high.
Jon
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.... Plus in the front I have airshifter bottle, fire system bottles plus a few extra gadgets, no room to mount it where I can see it good. Even If the other stuff wasnt there, then I would have to abandon my semi good tuck on the bike, so see over the triple tree and look down... I dont want me head that high.
Jon
Great pictures Jon and nice work, I guess I missed them back when you posted them :cry: .
You guys, especially with a turbo, have a lot you need to fit onto a bike.
Did you drill and tap a hole for the supply line to the turbo or was there already a fitting there? Could you have used the line where the filter use to be? Something I guess I'll have to work out on my motor.
Thanks and c ya,
Sum
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Gotya Jon!... great concept.
I'm not a bike rider, let alone yet a Landspeed racer, so I'm learning as I go.
Thanks for explaining this to a newbie!
You guys have fabracation skills that amaze me everytime I look at this stuff!
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Great pictures Jon and nice work, I guess I missed them back when you posted them :cry: .
You guys, especially with a turbo, have a lot you need to fit onto a bike.
Did you drill and tap a hole for the supply line to the turbo or was there already a fitting there? Could you have used the line where the filter use to be? Something I guess I'll have to work out on my motor.
Thanks and c ya,
Sum
Sum,
I did not want to disrupt the oiling system from where the oil cooler was. I tee those two ports together. I did take out a plug into the main oiling galley from the side of the motor in the past, but the fittings stuck out to far and didnt look good. So I am using the port where the oil pressure sender was. It is right next to where I used to pull the oil from. I tapped to 1/8 pipe... I never took a filter line out, I did take out the oil cooler. Which may return with a naca duct in the side of the body feeding air too it. If I have time before Speedweek I will do that but for the time being I consider that part of the to do list scratched off, but it is added to the maybe if I have time list.
Jon
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/turbo4.jpg)
(http://www.landracing.com/gallery/albums/Other%20and%20Misc/Project%20200/turbo3.jpg)
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Other things that have been done that is not worthy of pictures.
We tend to think the small things aren't of interest to others.
Ain't true. Take a thousand pics and put them up, and let us pay for the anti-drool medicine. Beginners to the sport learn amazing amounts from the pictures posted here.
ExcellentSpectacularGrandGreatSuperWebSite!!!!!!!!!
PS: Nice Bike!
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Jon,
"Some" fast bikes do not allow for a great view forward and the rider either has to look to the side or "sit up" to see where he is going.
Post some more pictures please...
J
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I understand that, I tried that at maxton on a small displacement bike and was not comfortable. For me to pilot the bike safe I need to look forward..
Or if I was smart I would have my head facing the valve cover looking into a little LCD display with a camera out the front of the bike... But im not that smart,, yet...
Jon
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I never took a filter line out, I did take out the oil cooler. ....Jon
I read oil cooler on the picture and thought oil filter in my mind :roll: .
Glad you pointed that out. Also I forgot to say before that, using the engine stand was a neat idea.
c ya, Sum
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Ok finished up with the turbo exhaust.
Like I stated before the big issue was seperating the wastegate hole and the main exhaust hole. Cast Iron is not friendly to weld, im sure someone has a perfected way to do it, but we had a tig available and it just wasn't going to do the job. So we made a inner pipe, when the flange is mounted that pipe will sit flush and tight against the inner side of turbo wastegate outlet. That was a machined surface. Some ask why did we just weld the internal wategate flapper shut and put the external gate on the header pipe. Good question and the truth is just was not any space available. Remember this is a 600cc bike. The header primary tubes are only 1 3/8 diameter. The wastegate piping is also 1 3/8 diameter. And the radiator sits right up against the tubes as it is.
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Jon,
That's nice! Looks like a fun project.
Harv
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Jon would it be possible to post the last set of pictures under a "new" post. I almost got them to load once and then had to go off-line and now I can't get them to load at all. I get the little red X. I don't know if there is too many pictures in that one thread for my poor old computer or what.
Thanks, Sum
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sum, go to your internet explorer history and delete the past week.
they should load next time you click the link.
unless you are a Mac guy.
is thats the case, toss the whole thing in the bin.
there is no hope of it ever recovering.
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More progress on the bike,, however today SUCKED... I had to sand the body down for new paint this year. Now this process sounds simple but it was the worst time yet this year working on the bike... First went with a 150 grit sandpaper and it wasnt touching the paint, then I tried 100 grit and it was doing something... Then went for the big stuff Aircraft Paint remover, bubbles the paint then scrapped with a putty knife, then sanded with 100 grit paper,,, Ahh now things started moving along... It was 95+ outside when I was doing this, so every 45 minutes I took a break and drank a couple glasses of water... I know one thing I WILL NOT be when I grow up and thats a body, paint guy..
I have also added pictures at this link.
http://www.landracing.com/gallery/index.php?cat=63
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I have a few things I need to repair the firberglass, like where I dropped it last year, a few extra holes that dont need to be there, and some fill in areas where the front body mates up with rear body, also planning to run APS so looking to make an extended tail section 8". And adding a new winshield this year, the little one I have been using was too hard to see out of in full tuck position on the bike...
Cant wait for the paint to get here...
Jon
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What model turbocharger is that, Jon?
Looks good!! :)
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just a cheapy garrett... with a few features...
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Hi Jon
are you sticking with the same general idea on the paint job? I always thought it was a great looking "do"....from photo's anyway... can't agree more about paint and panel work...at the moment I've got "girly hands" after staying away from thinners and general sanding slurry for as long as I can and I can't say it's a bad thing!!
best wishes .James
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Yeah my hands were pretty much cracked and hurt, even had gloves on during the whole process... O yeah dont get aircraft paint remover on your arms,,, it will set you running 5 sec 50 yard dashes for the nearest water source.... My wife made me do Satin Hands last night,, It was fun being pampered....
Paint job will not be the same, it will be what they call mirra chrome with red candy...
Jon
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Here is a sample look of what the paint will look like.
(http://www.alsacorp.com/products/kits_2/images/mirrachrome_red_sample.jpg)
Jon
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paint stripper? silly boy, that stuff is fer puttin in brown paper bags. wait till ya get ta the paint fumes, dems the good ens.
kr
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Here is a sample look of what the paint will look like.
(http://www.alsacorp.com/products/kits_2/images/mirrachrome_red_sample.jpg)
Jon
Ewww....I like that!
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I Cant have a red headed wife, so I decided I could have a red headed bike...
Jon
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i have a red-headed wife.
wanna trade? :lol:
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My wife says I like the brunette one I already have....
Hey wait,,, itsn't your wife a nurse???
Im whipped...
Jon
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G'day Jon lookin a bloody pearler mate :D I have a fair bit of experence with painting ,why did you remove the existing paint ? also be aware that a good candy paint job is one of the hardest to achieve :wink: all the best for your goal
Gary
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Mainly because I had dropped the bike and cracked some fiberglass. Needed some little holes patched... Needed a change...
Jon
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Here is a sample look of what the paint will look like.
(http://www.alsacorp.com/products/kits_2/images/mirrachrome_red_sample.jpg)
Do you get to pick the guy in the paint job?
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no thats extra, and im cheap, so I ordered without. :)
Jon
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Well more at it. I needed to fit a new windscreen supplied by one of my sponsors Air Tech... This is my first attempt at trying to do the job correctly. I screwed up in a couple of places... I drew out where I wanted the windscreen to go, then I drew in 1/2 inch from the outline. This left me 1/4" to put #6 flat heads in there. I measured out every 1" to put these into the countersunk holes. As of tonight Im half way there, just need to finish the top part Saturday.. The square pieces of fiberglass left inside the windscreen area are my mounting points for the fairing. I didnt want to mess with that at all... So this is what I have. Looks like crap but hey next time Im sure I can do a better job.
If you cant see the pictures, I have uploaded this years progress pictures here
http://www.landracing.com/gallery/index.php?cat=63
Jon
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that looks awesome.........!!
Joe :)
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Jon...
That is SLICK!
Nice work.
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My wife says I like the brunette one I already have....
Hey wait,,, itsn't your wife a nurse???
Im whipped...
Jon
nope. shes a surgeon. even worse! I mean better.
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Ill just post a couple finished pictures here. And the rest will be at the link below.
I had to do some fiberglass, dreading this day I just did it last night, all night, into the early hours of the morning. I learned alot just from the little I did. I am fairly pleased with the final product. MY first time doing it shows but ill put a light coat of spot putty around areas and should be good enough.
I am not done doing my "Rusted O'Dilly Rear Wing" that is still work in progress. I feel like I am not going to make it to Speedweek right now so ill save that for last if more time is there.
I did make a few sections to fill in around the foot area of the bike that were open also.
The rest of the files showing the work in progress are at
http://www.landracing.com/gallery/index.php?cat=63
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Whoah! Looks great.
I like the indents in the windscreen too, could be a really nice signature piece if tweaked just right. Like the glint in a manga character's eye or something a little more insectlike...
The paint looks great too. I imagine it would be tricky to patch for those inevitable changes/improvements though?
I am hoping to repaint the bellytank each year though so maybe you are of the same opinion...
Well done Jon. Hope to see it on the next jaunt downunder.
rH+
ps the Lady Hedgash is a rehead too. I consider it nature's warning sign...
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Well started the process on the paint job.. I sanded, sanded and sanded some more to get it read.. Good friend John Gowetski came over to assist in helping.. He was the teacher and I was the student... And come to realize that the teacher wasn't there when I was doing the sanding first, and after the first coat of primer went on, the imperfections just started to show up (many of them).. Come to realize I used to course of a sandpaper to sand it and the lines started coming in to show... So we went on and primed, sanded, filled in areas, sanded some more then finally we got to a point to add the sealer... Well found more sanding to get done in the next day before we add the first part of basecoat for the MirraChrome Red Candy im putting on... And my pistons showed up from JE, so in the past week I assembled the motor, checked the valve clearance, took back apart and inpected some questionable things (assembler error), reassembled and now just awaiting the fuel injection parts. Two pictures below and the rest are in the photo gallery.
http://www.landracing.com/gallery/index.php?cat=63
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Great work Jon. You will reap so much satisfaction when you go 200. Doing it all yourself is a special reward. When Charlie Toy designed his bodywork I don't think he ever envisioned it would morph into so many variants. Candy Red has a long history of going fast, you are sure to continue it. 8) Larry
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This is the only little Bitc* that has broken my heart... And she is going to be a red head now.... We are talking divorce if this year doesn't work out... Probably wont go fast but will look nice in the pits.. Maybe...
Jon
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This is the only little Bitc* that has broken my heart... And she is going to be a red head now.... We are talking divorce if this year doesn't work out... Probably wont go fast but will look nice in the pits.. Maybe...
Jon
If I had to put money on the diesel liner going over 300 during speed week or you going over 200, my money would be on you :D .
Have you been using "guide coats" during your sanding??
c ya, Sum
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I guess I would keep your money Sumner,,,
No I have not been using guide coats... I felt that I am going to sand until the spots come out and reapply the sealer... It's all well right now, looking pretty good... I however discovered another profession which I do not want to do when I grow up... ha
Jon
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I guess I would keep your money Sumner,,,
No I have not been using guide coats... I felt that I am going to sand until the spots come out and reapply the sealer... It's all well right now, looking pretty good... I however discovered another profession which I do not want to do when I grow up... ha
Jon
When I started on my truck I didn't think I would like body work. I found out I really enjoy watching bondo dust pile up on the floor :roll: . I wouldn't want to do it for a living, but for myself it is fine. Of course you would never know that if you saw my other vehicles, in fact my pickup needs to be completely redone. After the lakester though and I look forward to the body on it.
I found I can save so much time with guide coats and the couple bucks for the good stuff in a spray can can save you so much time and give really good results. I use it even during the bondo steps.
I'm anxious to see the bike in red. I know it will look good and go fast.
c ya, Sum
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Man, what ugly welding on the pipes, maybe you should have waited for a trained professional...
Just kidding.
Looking good Jon
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Dont worry Ill cover up your poo, with heat tape.. No one will ever know... Look forward to seeing you around Bonneville time.
Guess I should have used "stainless" on those.
Jon
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Did someone say Bonneville Speedweek was close to here already???
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Jon,
Nice forks and wheels, when do you get the frame and swing arm? ? ?
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John,must be new "stealth technology" bike.
I think I see the frame hiding inside the bodywork??
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Sorry fireman thats just a mock up to hold part of the bodywork.
Frame will be here monday, swingarm a few days after that.
Ill be gone from home until after the 4th anyways, then ill have about a month :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: to get it all put together.
Might me too close to speedweek to get finished
Jon
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There has been progress, still fighting with getting the intercooler in place.. It now sits behind my left leg.. Having enough clearance to body work and swingarm with this intercooler has been tough... Mapping out the wiring harness to send that out to Dave to get done.. As well as the mounting of all the fuel injection stuff... Still no paint yet from the intended color... Running out of time, I have moved from making it pretty mode to survival mode to get it done... But im sure the paint will get done,, then the question will be.. Will it look good in my garage or on the salt during Speedweek.
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I like the black :D . Get the other stuff done and then go back to the paint. 200+ in black would be good :!:
You have lots to do, but it sounds like you have a plan, so I'm thinking you are going to make it.
c ya, Sum
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Ask Tom Bryant about paint schemes (Mr. Flat-black and primer grey, himself) - and don't worry if yours isn't all pretty as a picture in time for the next event.
Much as I like looking at the fancy decorated race vehicles -- I'm more interested in seeing you with a 200-mph smile after a run. Good luck and best wishes from Nancy and me.
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Jon,
I'm sure you followed the discussion about motorcycle aerodynamic over the last day.
I saw now your rear end (fender).
As I remember is this bodywork above the rear wheel a open shell - in this area - see the question mark on the picture - the airflow will create his critical air cushion, due this that the air can't escape properly - the only way the air get, is downwards into the other airstream, builds a lot of turbulences and "damaged" the handling.
Best solution would be slots in the flat rear upright body panel - mean this triangle which close your fender on the end - so the air can got out of the "box" the direct way.
Just as a idea.
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Ask Tom Bryant about paint schemes
Candy blue on the bottom, going over to the top in dark blue, yellow moon and stars in the upper half, the bottom get some lighter blue and creme blue waves like a beach coast line......... :D
So the kids on the salt got also something interest to see.... :P
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is that MXL instrumentation I see on top there?
looks like it is coming along well.
what turbo system are you running?
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is that MCX instrumentation I see on top there?
looks like it is coming along well.
what turbo system are you running?
bbb,
We made and developing the turbo system....
yes that is a AIM MXL Dash unit.. Very slick unit..
I like the alarm function outputs, and shift lights, and very bright display to glance at... End of runs or datalogging you have all kinds of interpolated data, caparisions, etc etc...
Jon
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pork its like mine in the back, and full
all the way around the tire basically...........
cant assume much when looking at pictures........:)
Joe :)
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Alright, Joe,
than it will be not a problem.
When I saw the body kits the first time on the salt, also later, I checked with my hands - always it was possible to go with the hand inside the rear fender - so it was from the wheel side a open box - which it's agianst all aero rules - what ever this people thought, it was not right.
Jon did't gave a comment on my paint work idea :wink:
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is that MXL instrumentation I see on top there?
looks like it is coming along well.
what turbo system are you running?
bbb,
We made and developing the turbo system....
yes that is a AIM MXL Dash unit.. Very slick unit..
I like the alarm function outputs, and shift lights, and very bright display to glance at... End of runs or datalogging you have all kinds of interpolated data, caparisions, etc etc...
Jon
I am waiting for the plug and play version to come out later this summer for the Busa. I am electronically challenged and plug and play is something even I can master. I have a demo version of their software. logging will be very easy compared to a couple of other digi dash units.
cant really beat it price wise for all of the functions. much better price function-for-function than the Racepak unit.
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Pork Pie,
I will pass on the paint job you suggest... Thanks for the interesting insight however.
Yes my wheel is cover all the way around under the tail plus some...
Be interesting on what you will have to say when you see it in person...
I do have a new front fender coming and we will see how that looks on there in comparison, and give it a try,,, If I need less HP then I estimate I need from my estimated, CdA number, then I would suggest it worked :):):)
Jon
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Be interesting on what you will have to say when you see it in person...
....More, I will see you at 200 at the track....and not in this very comfortable - relax - 100 mph - touring position, I got you once on the slide... :D
I will use some of my time to see your bike properly in the pits, big promise.
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Ah,we have the bike to knock Jon's 600 off the block--
wishful thinking,but did get my son's Bonneville playbike back today.It's an FJ-600 Yamaha and just had new turbo hung and new plenum fabbed.Looks good and should be a blast. I call it the Franken-Yammie as it has donor parts from the FJ, a turbo Seca,front end from a Suzuki TL,etc.
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Well a few more items done and a few more to go.
Here is some stuff we just did today... New Fuel Tank, Nice bracket for airshifter, got wiring ready to go, just waiting on fuel injection stuff to finish... And then we can plumb the rest of the intercooler and fuel system stuff...
Trying hard to get er done... My goal is to be on dyno around August 1... We will see if that happens.
About 20 or more new pictures on the picture gallery http://www.landracing.com/gallery/index.php?cat=63
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well done Jon well done ,do me proud mate ,or you get a dirty sancheze :P
Gary
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Hawk,
Well things are going but NOT everything here yet to finish the project...
Im praying things will be here in middle of week,,,, but hey it's Bonneville and no matter if you plan a year ahead still a freakin circus to get it done in time for bonneville.
Hmm now what am I going to do tonight,,,, I need sleep.... Ok not yet...
Jon
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Is Joes bike all ready to go?
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Is Joes bike all ready to go?
Not at this time....
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Well I got close to being done. I was about 98 complete. When I started plumbing the fuel system. I had bought a bosch pump from a guy who was in need of cash... I paid for it, and got it shipped and it sat on the counter until I was ready for it... I put it in and went to test the fuel system and it just clunked. Just once... So I put an amp meter on it and it went straight to 16-20 amps, heated the pump up so it was pretty hot to the touch and got the wiring hot... I called the guy back and he just had said it worked last time I used it... I asked if it was tested before shipping and the answer was no... No offer to return it for a refund... No sympathy... Just It worked when I used it... Well shit, now I have to pay preium price to get one here like 1 or 2 day air... Since im out the $125 for pump, which I had given an extra $25 because he needed the money.. He was asking $100...
I went and played pool, which I shot like crap... But I came back and decided since the pump was not going to work, and probably no chance to give it back I decided to take it apart to inspect and find out what the problem was... Below are the pictures of what I found...
Now I can throw it away and move on for now a pump which will cost close to $500, for a new pump, overnight shipping, cost of old pump and more stress.. And instead of being on the dyno like Tuesday night im probably looking now to reschedule for Friday, which not leaves me zero time for error.
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Well I got close to being done. I was about 98 complete. When I started plumbing the fuel system. I had bought a bosch pump from a guy who was in need of cash... I paid for it, and got it shipped and it sat on the counter until I was ready for it... I put it in and went to test the fuel system and it just clunked. Just once... So I put an amp meter on it and it went straight to 16-20 amps, heated the pump up so it was pretty hot to the touch and got the wiring hot... I called the guy back and he just had said it worked last time I used it... I asked if it was tested before shipping and the answer was no... No offer to return it for a refund... No sympathy... Just It worked when I used it... Well shit, now I have to pay preium price to get one here like 1 or 2 day air... Since im out the $125 for pump, which I had given an extra $25 because he needed the money.. He was asking $100...
I went and played pool, which I shot like crap... But I came back and decided since the pump was not going to work, and probably no chance to give it back I decided to take it apart to inspect and find out what the problem was... Below are the pictures of what I found...
Now I can throw it away and move on for now a pump which will cost close to $500, for a new pump, overnight shipping, cost of old pump and more stress.. And instead of being on the dyno like Tuesday night im probably looking now to reschedule for Friday, which not leaves me zero time for error.
John,
I have a pump if you still need it, you can use it if needed, you did not call back last night so I did not take it from the garage.
Did you do that "search" I recommended ?
Let me know.
John
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Thanks John, I did do a search and alot of places come up with the pumps. There are many different versions of the pump. There is a bosch 044, Bosch 040 and the one that crapped out before I got to use is a bosch 984. The 984 I found fits on early style mercedes so I called a local mercedes place this morning and found they do have it in stock... Cool im on the way to pick it up now...
Still frustrated,
Jon
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Got pump this morning and got rest of fuel system plummed. Got intercooler stuff done.. Getting closer...
Pics below are of the cam sensor that we made, and pics of sensor installed, and the bike getting closer..
Jon
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Man Jon you have done a ton of work and engineering. I'm really impressed :!: and can't wait to see it. I'll have some questions about the intercooler and lots more.
The only question I have for right now. Is there still room on there for you somewhere :wink: ???
c ya soon,
Sum
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The only question I have for right now. Is there still room on there for you somewhere :wink: ???
c ya soon,
Sum
Not sure, still mounting crap...., actually I think Im done mounting stuff on the bike and its just down to testing fuel system for leaks, add oil, and start... Ooo yeah and a Map for the haltech...
Jon
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Why do you need a 'cam sensor'? Don't you know if the cams are in there somewhere?
DW
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Careful, Dan. Don't jeopardize your new credentials.
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Stan,Dan don't inspect bikes, only drinks their beer. :twisted:
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Why do you need a 'cam sensor'? Don't you know if the cams are in there somewhere?
The sensor got two lights - a red and a green - green means...everything alright.......red.......if you believe it or not - broken.......
Hope for Jon that RED will be never shown :wink:
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Well fuel injection system is on and it runs.. Crappy idle but hopefully we can take care of most of that on the dyno on Friday... Im crossing my fingers... No engine noises, no smoke out of turbo, only had one water leak and that is fixed... New fuel injection system is pretty cool, just alot of learning (o what the hell that is what I have Dave Dahlgren for at the track)... Mounted the bodywork and everything fits :) :) :) :)... I was scared that something wouldn't fit under it... Im a happy camper right now... Just have to see what happens on the dyno Friday.
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Way to go Jon.It looks mean--and fast.Keep us posted.Good luck on the dyno.
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thumbs up lil buddy , now go out and nail that sucker 200hat commimh up (fingers crossed ) hope Joe and yourself do well and you to Jim :D
Gary
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Hot Damn Jon!
That thing is a piece of artwork!
Good luck on the Dyno!
Post some numbers if you can.
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You have worked your butt off. Time to go have some FUN !!!. Here's wishing a TOOO for You. :lol: :lol: Larry
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Well, it's 7:20 PM in Denver. Let's hope that Jon is having good results on the dyno. I have no concept as to how he accomplishes as much as he does.
He has some good help but he also works a full time job, as do many others that post here, but he also maintains this site.
John Gowetski contributes an enormous amount as do many others but it's still Jon that is the builder. Half way across the nation, Dave does all he can with only 24 hours in a day.
I know he is driven by his agreement with Don Vesco to make this project work. Unless Vesco has been beside you, loaned his expertise and support, you have no idea what an uplifting support that is. Jon is using that support as if Don was there to advise him daily.
Good luck, good results and don't be blown away if there's still a bit too much work to do before Speed Week.
We are all pulling for you........Oh webmaster.
Lets give him our verbal support now and our financial support for the website when we see him Sunday.
FREUD
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Well still not done with mapping.
Going in stages thru the rpm ranges 500 rpm at a time... We got to about 6500 range and had to call it quits for the night. Will start Saturday again around 10 am...
Good news and bad new so far..
First is its not done. And my dyno sponsor, Nallin Racing Head Service, and Aaron is leaving for sturgis in morning..
However I will have access to the dyno all weekend to do it myself..
Watch out...
So far I see that its building boost around 5500 rpm at 80% throttle. Still havent figured out this duty cycle on boost controller completly yet but little steps are happening and hopefully I dont wear it out on the dyno...
Long day Saturday but its gotta get done... Don Vesco is waiting for me at the end of the course...
Freud is correct, this project started with Don and I chatting awhile ago.. He was very interested in the project... Don was going to take a pass on the bike when I got it done, correctly... But he will have his pass on it, in spirit everytime down the track with me.
Jon
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Why that rotten bastard, Aaron. Leaving you stranded while he cavorts at Sturgis. Did he leave another dyno operator or are you on your own?? :wink:
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Why that rotten bastard, Aaron. Leaving you stranded while he cavorts at Sturgis. Did he leave another dyno operator or are you on your own?? :wink:
On my own... thats ok the learning curve has been better then the bike curve... Getting it down just fine...
A few problems and working thru them at moment.
Jon
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So how did it all come out,Jon?? Dying to hear numbers and see finished pics.
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Check out Jon's bike on the SCTA's website under Friday bike pics. Dark bike, white salt, good contrast. He has competition as there is a red turbo Honda in the pics. Lets' get ready to rumble !!!! :lol:
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Wow, 3 650cc blown pre-entries. Looking through the pre-entries there are alot more blown bikes.
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I made my first pass yesterday for a tune up pass and went 175 mph for the mile, and went 174.4 in the 2 1/4. Just shy of making the long course... That was in 5th gear, We turned up the boost and getting ready to make another pass in a few hours.
Jon
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I made my first pass yesterday for a tune up pass and went 175 mph for the mile, and went 174.4 in the 2 1/4. Just shy of making the long course... That was in 5th gear, We turned up the boost and getting ready to make another pass in a few hours.
Jon
Jon,
Thanks for the updates.
I heard there was no line for the long course and the short course line seemed like it was a mile long :shock:
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Well here is the destruction of the motor on #1 cylinder. I am tring to find cause and corrective action.. Im not sure how I am sappose to diagnose the problem when there is so much gone? Ill try to figure it out.
Jon
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Just a WAG,but I am guessing you dropped one valve/valve head and that instantly started hammering the crap out of the rest.Look how you can see the other valves bent back in-----just one man's opinion.
And BTW, it totally sucks it had to happen, I can truly relate,bud.
Oops,the last pic just loaded and you can see the valve head.Just a parts failure--
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looking at that photo of the head tells me you have a serious fuel distribution problem :cry:
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Jon,
Can you post a close up picture of the other three pistons from the top, I know this was the same pistons you ran before however it appears that the pistons may be hitting the head at TDC, what is the piston to head clearance when you assembled the engine?? You should have about .034"-.040" with your RPM, HP, and piston speed.
J
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Jon,
You'll probably get all kinds of WAG's why your engine came apart! Here's mine:
It looks like the same as an old 912 Porsche engine I had that had a intake valve seat come out. It too made a hell of a mess. Any other seats that show cracks around the seats?
Good luck on finding another engine! It sounded like you were on the right track with your set-up.
Harv
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Well as many off you know I went to BUB speed trials and had some success, some smoke, some fun, one record...
We started the week off with a mild tune up and 7 lbs of boost. THis netted me two runs 188 and 191 mph.
During the second attempt I lost communication with the brand new Haltech E11 EFI unit. The communications port failed within the unit.
We shimmed up the wastegate and turned up the fuel pressure. This is where it get exciting, during this run I was on a 215+ run (data only) when an oil line burned thru by the exhaust and just drenched me in oil. Let off a spectacular smoke screen in the process.
Took the bike back to pits got it semi cleaned up and found an oil line behind the header burned thru. The face of line was cinched thru. We repaired the line and added fire sleeve to the line.
Next run bike seemed to pull but wasn't as strong as the other runs. Made a couple more runs and progressively the boost was getting less.
Put it on the trailer and got the about 190 record certified for the AMA MPS-BF class 650cc.
Brought the bike back to denver and my crew chief and I were baffled on why we were loosing boost. Could it have been because when the oil pumped out during the third run and starved the motor for oil. (when that was said and done there was a 1 qt of oil left), could the turbo be going away, is there a plenum leak somwhere??? We were down on compression a little but not enough to worry about.
Here is what I found below and this explains everything that happened during the week. Explains the oil line, loss of power, and why I couldn't build boost every run it got worse. Repair has been made and now looking to add some more reinforcement.
We will be back for World of Speed in a few days...
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Yep, Jon that does explain the situation. Glad you are back together and I expect to hear a good speed later in the week.
It was good to hang around with you and Stainless some and get in your guys way a little :D .
c ya, Sum
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Are you and your Haltech on speaking terms again?
Had an oil line break on my 600 turbo also. Though the motor was toast,but pulled it out and apart to find it was unhurt.Had fuel fill a cylinder and it would not crank over.Whew!!
Good luck,Jon.Want to see BIG numbers!!
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Well Yes Fireman got Haltech unit back Saturday...
We got the engine fired Sunday night, it runs once again..
Here are the pictures of how we fixed the problem and secured the turbo header. Should be less prone to cracking and now held in position properly..
We leave for WOS Monday Night around 10 pm.
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Good luck Jon.
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Jon,
I am sure that someplace in this 8 page post you mention what material you made the headers from but I am going to ask anyhow. What is the material? Stainless? What is the tubing thickness? From looking at your pics of the failure it appears that they may be steel. Your added heat sheild appears to be stailess but the "repair patch" appears to be steel.
Typically for turbo headers the peferred tubing material is 321 stainless and I would think that 14 gage (.071 thick) would also be the minimum. I worked on a tubo Chevy V6 that we ran at Daytona and we had to make the collector section from Inconel 625 to get it to live. Somewhat similar conditions to running at B'ville, once we came out of the infield the engine was pretty much ran at WFO and max boost for around 1-1/2 miles on the high bank. (this was in 1983 and the "bus stop" chicane was not built yet).
Just wondering.
Rex
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I have seen a few bikes with an external strap from the cylinder or head to the flange. seems to work well for drag bikes. best of luck and congrats.
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the turbo is pretty heavy unsupported it will crack any material your fix and support is pretty darn nice. it should keep the header from cracking at the exhaust ports but you definitely need to put a bracket on the turbo. Typical when a header cracks at the flange its because of an unsupported turbo. good job on the rest of your Assembly running over2 means you built a good piece. shake out the rest of the bugs and that baby is gonn drop a few records
kent
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Slip joints.
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none of the turbos I have ever seen have had slip on the header side only on the dump side
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Look closer :D
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In 1978 I hung two TRW (Corvair) turbos on the side of my 270 GMC using JC Whitney U bend exhaust tubing exclusively. Had a brace from each turbo to the pan rail. Ran for at least 5 years, Two Bonneville records, and one at El Mirage,. Never cracked. Pretty hard to beat old JC.
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bracing is good!
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Ok well on to the Project 200 again for this year.
Last year, basically this whole post till now, was from last year. We started the project off with a whole new setup. Bascially a whole new engine management system, which Dave Dahlgren from Engine Management Systems helped with. His Plenum design and his wiring harness (for fuel and ignition). We had a new motor combination and some body improvements.
What this all netted me for 2006 was a data logging run over 200 mph (215 mph+). A 189 mph AMA record, 3 events raced (Speedweek, BUB and WOS), handling problem, one broken header, one blown motor, one junked turbo, one blistered tire, one fire, long course qualified and a whole bunch of room for improvement.
I am starting right now back into the bike.
Had problems data logging and communication problems between my AIM dash and the Haltech EMS. That seems to be corrected now with some firmware updates. Still have some other sensor issues which I will be working out soon.
Fuel tank modifications in the works, chain guard modification, bottom fairing modification
Found some of my wiring was incorrect for the LC1 for the wide band o2 sensor. That was my fault.
Not to terrible of a list for this year.
I will be updating the photos in this thread with all the pictures that were lost.
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I think I got most of the pictures back up in this post, in the correct order of the build, so you can go back to page one of this thread and look at the pictures.
If anything you can goto
http://www.landracing.com/gallery/index.php?cat=63
That will have all the pictures and pretty much in chronological order.
Jon
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Looks great and glad to see it moving along.
Good luck.
J
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Well time to put progress on Project 200...
At this time the engine parameters have changed a little. Working on some fairing upgrades and some additions aero devices that were suggested to me from two people. So we will see if they help the aero still going to run the same 7-10 lbs of boost. Modifying the exhaust system outlet to rear of bike also. And corrected a few minor issues that we had last year.
I believe I have found the steering shake problem that plagued me last year and prevented any 100% throttle runs thru the whole measured mile. the magical speed of approx 190 mph gave me some problems. At BUB meet it was better but Speedweek and WOS is was worse.
No other upgrades will be done for this year. Other then locating an enclosed trailer.
Plan is to run Speedweek, then run BUB's meet under FIM sanction. We will see about the other meets after those two. Depends if goals have been reached.
No pictures yet, may have to wait until speedweek to see.
Jon
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Well time to put progress on Project 200...
At this time the engine parameters have changed a little. Working on some fairing upgrades and some additions aero devices that were suggested to me from two people. So we will see if they help the aero still going to run the same 7-10 lbs of boost. Modifying the exhaust system outlet to rear of bike also. And corrected a few minor issues that we had last year.
I believe I have found the steering shake problem that plagued me last year and prevented any 100% throttle runs thru the whole measured mile. the magical speed of approx 190 mph gave me some problems. At BUB meet it was better but Speedweek and WOS is was worse.
No other upgrades will be done for this year. Other then locating an enclosed trailer.
Plan is to run Speedweek, then run BUB's meet under FIM sanction. We will see about the other meets after those two. Depends if goals have been reached.
No pictures yet, may have to wait until speedweek to see.
Jon
Jon.
What was the issue with the wobble? Front wheel? ??
J
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The best material to build turbo headers is High Pressure Steam cast fittings and appropriate tubing.
It is thicker than exhaust products and the fittings are tapered at the weld point to ensure a better weld.
If you are trying to save weight, save time, and money, stay home.
It is a little more expensive but what is more expensive than a failure ?
:wink:
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Yes John, I believe that the front wheel was the problem. I cannot find anything else that provides answers or even possibilities. The front wheel was bent. I have no clue where or when it happened. I found that after racing season.
So new wheel ready to be installed just looking for a tire.
Jon
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Clamping the wheel at the bottom into a fixture and holding the bike up is an unnatural load in a direction the wheel was never designed for.
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jack,
so is hitting a curb with a wheel.. I missing your point... Since I don't clamp the wheel... Or are you just throwing that out there, because you have to have an answer for everything??? There are alot of things a wheel isn't designed for.... And I disagree with your application, by which I think you are saying that traveling with a wheel in a tire chalk to bonneville could cause a bent rim??? OR I also would find it hard to believe that if one uses a clamp at the bottom of the wheel to hold the bike up it would bend a rim, like one on a bike lift.... I do believe that rims bend from an impact of some sort. And since the "imperfection" was outward, I can conclude that clamping was not the issue. GO fish...
Jon
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"Various experiences influence variable conclusions." (me)
To what do you attribute the damage ? :wink:
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Good luck,Jon. See ya out there. Can't wait to check out the bike.
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All the best Jon ,go fast be safe
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Jack,
I would conclude the following (without pointing finger):
A. the wheel was bent in shipping to chromer
B. Chromer dropped wheel before chroming process.
I did confirm the wheel was bent when dropped off first time for balancing at local bike shop. they said it was bent, but balanced fine. I was not there when they did balancing. One of those dropped off and picked up later. And it was one of those I forgot to tell you things when I went back to inquire.... That was kinda important information. I feel IF impact was done after chroming process there would be some stress of the chrome that showed or some type of scuff mark, which there is not.
Of course its all speculation, and at this point, don't care.. Just want to install a straight rim and good tire and lets go racing.
Jon
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The best material to build turbo headers is High Pressure Steam cast fittings and appropriate tubing.
It is thicker than exhaust products and the fittings are tapered at the weld point to ensure a better weld.
If you are trying to save weight, save time, and money, stay home.
It is a little more expensive but what is more expensive than a failure ?
:wink:
Or the other side of the note is not stay home, work within the means of what you have on hand and use mild steel and go racing.... Sure you may have a failure, but its the racers choice, and if it does fail make it better... My failure with header wasn't due to mild steel or the welds, it was due to improper turbo support.
So are you telling Ack Attack that they should have stayed home because they used mild steel exhaust... Weight, money and time were not a factor, they built what they thought would work...
jon :) :) :)
P.S. Ill be sure to send an email out to all the turbo people, that if you aren't using steam cast fittings, just stay home and not attend speedweek.... That should shorten the lines right... But I want to buy a T-Shirt... A hell ill just go racing anyway..
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The environment seen by the turbo headers in LSR requires quite a different approach than any other.
Someone we know, had a hole blow out in a stainless exhaust tubing header with no weight load and the fumes caused him to abort a run.
In that case the turbo was supported in the frame of the vehicle, and over 5 feet away.
It was not a stress crack, but an inability of the material at exhaust temperature to contain the pressure.
That case was not a speed secret and happened nearly 30 years ago on the Salt. :wink:
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The best material to build turbo headers is High Pressure Steam cast fittings and appropriate tubing.
It is thicker than exhaust products and the fittings are tapered at the weld point to ensure a better weld.
If you are trying to save weight, save time, and money, stay home.
It is a little more expensive but what is more expensive than a failure ?
:wink:
Or the other side of the note is not stay home, work within the means of what you have on hand and use mild steel and go racing.... Sure you may have a failure, but its the racers choice, and if it does fail make it better... My failure with header wasn't due to mild steel or the welds, it was due to improper turbo support.
So are you telling Ack Attack that they should have stayed home because they used mild steel exhaust... Weight, money and time were not a factor, they built what they thought would work...
jon :) :) :)
P.S. Ill be sure to send an email out to all the turbo people, that if you aren't using steam cast fittings, just stay home and not attend speedweek.... That should shorten the lines right... But I want to buy a T-Shirt... A hell ill just go racing anyway..
Jon,
I'm pretty new to LSR,but have raced a Turbo on every vehicle I have ever owned"excepted my Time Trial Road Bikes" so I feel I know a little about the subject.
Every Turbo system I have raced at BONNEVILLE "I'M ON MY 4th different systems" has had a crack of some sort :?! They have been made of everything from Mild steal to Unobtainium :-o!
Really high Heat "super lean'',and stress from Vibration or just lack of enough support has seem to be the main causes.I have now discovered a new parts failure problem just this week :oops:! My Plastic nipples on my fuel tanks have become so brittle that I have broken 2 different V-rod gas tank caps. 1 was the fuel vent nipple the other was the fuel return nipple on 2 separate V-rod fuel tanks :x! These were from 2 seperate Race Bikes ,but they were 2002's and I ran Race Fuel in Both. Getting back to the Turbo Header failures. Each one was a little different,but Bracing or Lack of seems to be the common problem with each failure :|! I ran without rear suspension till now.So dampening or Lack of,and Vibration + High Heat seem to have caused the major Failures :? Now bent wheels are something I have had to deal with during my Road Racing,Drag Racing, and Street riding days on my Ducati's,and V-rods.
I ruined 3 different Marchesini front wheels "1 Forged Aluminium ,1 cast Aluminium and 1 Magnesium'' Never crashing any of them but I did do some Drag racing as well as Road racing with them aswell as street riding. I would Do some Pretty Big Wheelies,and that was the only reason we could come up with other then having the tires Mounted by some not so Good Professionals? I'm not sure if this was the cause of your problems,but I have been through the same strange Phenomenons :? :mrgreen: !
Hope this can shed a little lite on your Problems,and you get it resolved safely.
Good Luck,
Kaz..........
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What I would like to know is what the hell are Jack and Joe doing up at 3:30 A.M. on a Sunday morning??
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"...at 3:30 A.M. on a Sunday morning??"
As opposed to 3.30 AM on a Sunday afternoon?
Just being pedantic, as usual, but then, it's Father's Day and I can do whatever I want -- I'm a dad. Happy Father's Day to one and all.
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"...at 3:30 A.M. on a Sunday morning??"
As opposed to 3.30 AM on a Sunday afternoon?
Just being pedantic, as usual, but then, it's Father's Day and I can do whatever I want -- I'm a dad. Happy Father's Day to one and all.
".....As opposed to 3.30 AM"
As opposed to 3.30 inches. Hey Jon you had better be careful, one of these guys might stuff you into one of those green boxes you take care of and throw away the key, or at least drop it down the vent stack for you to fish for :evil:,
Sum
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Sum, just yesterday you were saying nice things about me 'cause I've figured out how to put photos into my posts. Now you go giving others bad ideas.
By the way, how do you post those big photos?
Back to Jonathon's build story, folks. Didn't mean to hijack the thread...
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Sum, just yesterday you were saying nice things about me 'cause I've figured out ................By the way, how do you post those big photos?.......
Jon (the other one who has ultimate control here) gave me special permission to use "big" pictures 8-) .
Actually they are posted on my site and I'm just linking to them with the {img}{/img}
option in the post menu above all the happy/sad faces.
Yes back to the 600 build. I'm learning valuable info about turbos, which I'll use someday. Thanks guys,
Sum
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All i can say about it is the sophistication of the work and the obvious effort going into it is certainly humbling.
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Well now that we know speedweek is on. Here is a few items I have been working on... I can tell you with the bike mostly ready for this year, I miscalculated my time as usual, and ill be working to the end hour AGAIN...
This year I didnt have the luxory of my Sugar Moma supporting my efforts, she has been out of work for 5 months now, but I did manage a few items. First I got an enclosed trailer for this year.. Second I made a few changes to the bike, first was the addition of the front fender, second was enclosing part of the front fairing more then it was, a new belly pan, new intake piping and a new exhaust, panel to block off air under triple tree, redo some wiring, some welding on oil pans, new front rim (story in itself)... the normal stuff I guess.
The trailer took some time prepping about a week for misc stuff.. Added a 20 Gallon tank on tonque of trailer to haul spray water...
We will see what this does for this year... Sounds like I need to make some more lead...
Here are a few pictures the rest are on the project build up section in the gallery
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hey it looks like someone lost a perfectly good swing set so you can build that exhaust..lol... see ya in a week
kent
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http://www.landracing.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=142
This is a link to the pictures for this year so far for my project.
Jon
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hey it looks like someone lost a perfectly good swing set so you can build that exhaust..lol... see ya in a week
kent
Yeah HOA was pissed, portable sawsall works well... Next door kids were giving me evil eye as a reved the motor...
Jon
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I hope this is my bread and butter for this year.
Jon
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Looks good Jon. It should make a difference.
Pete
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Yeah HOA was pissed, portable sawsall works well... Next door kids were giving me evil eye as a reved the motor...
Jon
I know that feeling. My HOA does not like me either. :-D
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Good luck Jon, be safe ..I'm sure you'll see 200mph this year :mrgreen:
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Well not actually super excited about speedweek.. I did set some records but not what the project is about. I made many passes all with same outcome, handling problems in in 185-190 stopped further speeds from me... All these passes were done with less then 40% throttle. Then I threw a rod on a return run on a 185 qualifier.
So I am back to the drawing board, before I tore the bike down I wanted to get some CG info... I had tied to the rafters in garage and didn't look to promising, so I had the wife help and had her sit on the bike. Just in case I had her wear a helmet... She looks less then pleased with the setup, but she participated anyways.... After I got the info I wanted I tore the whole bike down and I am rethinking what I need to do here. New motor is a for sure thing, then im going to go thru the rest of the chassis bearings and start putting back together... Only 2 weeks before I leave for BUB's... I see new body work, some suspension stuff, and who knows what else...
The front fender was worth approx 10 mph for me, I took off early in week and I still had same problems on handling, so I will use it again in future.
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Good luck at BUB and keep us posted on your progress.
Scott
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40% throttle and you threw a rod, what happened?
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I noticed in the closeup engine pic that it looked like both rod bolts were broken. Were they broken in tensile? How do you tighten the fasteners on the rods with a stretch gage? :?
There is a guy at GRP there in Denver named Brian Scolon. He is a savvy guy and could help you with the analysis on the fasteners and rod(s). :-D
Also thanks for keeping us "stay at home" folks informed during speedweek. That was great work for all. :wink:
Regards,
HB2 :-)
And that rolls past 1500. :roll:
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Analysis is an afterthought right now. The rod installation procedure was a weird one, it was just as the Carrillo sheet instructions were followed. There were a few steps in the process. I suspect an oiling problem on the #3 rod, spun a bearing and it broke. The other rods are perfect. Bearings look great... The number three rod that broke, is severe bluing around the end of the rod, tells me heat... Which is why I suspect an oiling problem there.
I will look at it more at later date, right now is a full throttle grind for BUB's, we will leave Friday night the 31st to get there for inspection on Saturday.
Another motor is under way, this time will be stock rods with JE Pistons. A new suspension, or upgraded Suspension is in works. New shock in place and waiting on front end stuff which is already shipped to me. The shock I put in was almost a direct bolt on, it is from a 02 ZZR1200... Will go in more later on why it was changed...
Waiting on new body work that will be installed for BUB's. Now is just inspection of everything else... And start going back together in a day or so.
Why does is take 2 hours to get back to bare frame, and 2 weeks to put back together... Arhhh
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Analysis is an afterthought right now. The rod installation procedure was a weird one, it was just as the Carrillo sheet instructions were followed. There were a few steps in the process. I suspect an oiling problem on the #3 rod, spun a bearing and it broke. The other rods are perfect. Bearings look great... The number three rod that broke, is severe bluing around the end of the rod, tells me heat... Which is why I suspect an oiling problem there.
I will look at it more at later date, right now is a full throttle grind for BUB's, we will leave Friday night the 31st to get there for inspection on Saturday.
Another motor is under way, this time will be stock rods with JE Pistons. A new suspension, or upgraded Suspension is in works. New shock in place and waiting on front end stuff which is already shipped to me. The shock I put in was almost a direct bolt on, it is from a 02 ZZR1200... Will go in more later on why it was changed...
Waiting on new body work that will be installed for BUB's. Now is just inspection of everything else... And start going back together in a day or so.
Why does is take 2 hours to get back to bare frame, and 2 weeks to put back together... Arhhh
Try 2 years :x!Now I have Salt Gremlin's in my electrical from my Lake ride in 04 :-( Gotta do some serious rewiring :?!Will we even have course at BUB in a couple weeks? :?
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Jon, I think you need a stabilizer... like this :roll: :-D
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Well let me tell you it was some grind to get to this point from speedweek... Let me recap speedweek, I threw number #3 rod, and had bad handling problems... Well it gets worse.
First thing back, strip whole bike down to frame. Check all bearings, good. Installed new aftermarket zzr1200 shock... It mounts the whole bike to low, have to machine some spacers for it to bring it back up to height.. Without that exhaust, body, nothing fits... Ok now string alignment, found it off, machine some spacers finally get it right... Put a whole new motor together. I got motor in the bike and a drop the bike off the lift, Broken shifter, broken coil, broken stator cover, busted fuel pump nipple. Joe one day airs me his fuel pump and coils. Now onto the handling problem, CG and CP too close together.. Stainless get a vertical stabilizer finished and we just finally mounted it. I got a air diverter mounted in front of the rear tire. We moved some more weight forward and remove a little from the rear of the bike. Then I mounted a new steering dampener and mount in different location. WAIT gets worse. We get all the electronics back on the bike, we goto start bike, I hooked up two four pin weatherpack connectors to the wrong mates (other words I had two connectors wired the same way).... HERE IS THE FUN, blown Computer, I run the Haltech E11 box, also when I shorted that I also shorted the MSD Ignition box... I had a spare MSD, but NO Haltech.. Called haltech and $1400 later and overnight shipping, Saturday delivery, AM service I should have it in morning. SO we are running very late, and wont be arriving on the salt until Sunday morning now... Still have to run motor, dont even know if it runs. Anyways we are close, just waiting on the Haltech Box Saturday morning... Install and if no clunk clunk bang bang we are on the road by 12:00..
This was one grind I dont want to do again in two weeks time for another meet...
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Cool looking project! Good Luck at BUB.
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Jon,
Good luck at Bubs, call me if you need anything shipped Fed Ex tomorrow or later.
Your bike is well a head of mine, if I had the bodywork here I would at least jet out with the side car.
Good luck and racers go fast.
J
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If this is paying your dues, you are building up a charmed season soon. Nothing good ever comes easy, and that is a good thing. It makes the accomplishment that much sweeter, my friend (plus you have good help and great company to share it with :)
Thanks for keeping those of us who are BUB challenged in the loop on the progress and good luck and top speed, baby! Hope to see ya at worlds.
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Wow Jon, I'm impressed. I would have given up a couple days ago, but then again you are a lot younger than I.
I think you are going the right way to improve the handling. I'll be interested to see if Stainless's fin helps or not. Good idea to try it. The back wheel skirt will also help to move the CP back and will probably help with the speed also. After last year it looks like you have the HP to get to your goals if the handling comes around.
Good luck and stay safe,
Sum
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i think moving the weight from the back to up front and replacing that shock is the best thing you could have done. all that weight up high out back is like having a fat chick go along for the ride..
kent
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I supervised an FIM World 24hr Endurance
record and one of the modifications they made was to fit a beautiful aluminum extra fuel tank on the rear hump in the low pressure area behind the rider.
It was not very large and only weighed slightly over 8 pounds when full.
They just put a T in the supply line and vented the tank forward to the area behind the fairing.
The result was the tank never drained until they were stopped and made the bike handle so bad on the 5 mile circle that they rode it 1 handed to limit the natural feedback from the rider that is always late.
Not until a crack developed in a seam did it empty onto the riders back did the handling improve and it got even faster when the took the empty tank off. :wink:
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Landracing.com will NOT be at the event. There will be no updates, pictures or commentary from this site for the event. A shipping error from Haltech for a needed ECU for our race bike was not tagged properly for delivery. It was to be shipped overnight Saturday delivery with AM service and it was shipped just overnight and with Holiday on Monday means we won't get it till Tuesday... So with that we will not be attending... Im going to go puke now because this just makes me sick...
jon
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Landracing.com will NOT be at the event. There will be no updates, pictures or commentary from this site for the event. A shipping error from Haltech for a needed ECU for our race bike was not tagged properly for delivery. It was to be shipped overnight Saturday delivery with AM service and it was shipped just overnight and with Holiday on Monday means we won't get it till Tuesday... So with that we will not be attending... Im going to go puke now because this just makes me sick...
jon
Jon,
I am sorry to hear this bad news! I have been watching with a close eyes in hope that you achieve your desired speeds and really thought with your new changes since Speedweek it was going to happen.
There is always WOS.......
Scott
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Still looking and calling if ANYBODY runs a Haltech E11 Box, looking to get one to me in the next day or so, could pick up on way to the Salt in Utah I could be a player, I got calls in to a bunch of shops and people to see if there is one local...
Jon
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Jon, I'm not sure if this will help, but there is one on Ebay in California, one in Alabama too...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Haltech-E11v2-Fuel-and-Ignition-Control-System-ECU_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33596QQihZ005QQitemZ8074555670QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Haltech-E11v2-standalone-ECU-Computer-Hal-Tech-ECM-PCM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33596QQihZ016QQitemZ260147275892QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
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Finding a Haltech is not a problem, RZ350, its getting it here with a holiday weekend... Are you going to personally deliver????
Jon
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Wow Jon, sorry to hear about that mix up!
Sounds like you need to hook up an emergency transport system to get it here.
Years ago when I worked in emergency services we would sometimes move critical items by relay.
Just get a bunch of people who could each move the item a couple hundred miles and physically hand it off to another. You can move things about 1500 miles a day that way if you can setup the connections.
Anyone know any private pilots that might be flying from one of those locations to the Denver Area?
Or a long haul truck driver that is going to make that sort of trip anyway?
Hope you can work something out!
When is the "must be here no later than time" for you to be able to participate?
Could you meet the part in Wendover if someone could get it there?
Larry
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If I could find something within a few hundred miles of wendover, Ack Attack has offered their Plane to go get the ECU IF I can find somebody with one... If I can find somebody with one, plane counter to counter shipping would be fastest to get it here. I could meet someone on the way to wendover from Denver if need be. I just need to locate one first a deal with an agreement or arrangement then getting it to me will figure it self out.. Hopefully something Sunday would be good.
Jon
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Good luck with that -- I will keep an eye on this thread, I could do a short relay if you can get it with in 150 or so miles of Denver, I get off work at 06:00 Sunday morning and would be willing to go get it if I can.
Larry
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Yeah, I know what you're saying Jon, I was just hoping that someone might be in the area of one of the ECU's, and be on the way to BUB, and be able to pick it up and bring it along...
Longshot, but wishful thinking.
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So if things dont get worse, called this morning to Haltech and Matt had written correctly 1 day air, Saturday delivery, AM service, BUT the shipping department shipping it wrong... they offered an apology... But to bad for me lose all the money for FIM sanction, entry fee's, and mostly missing the meet.
To add to the whole thing, I called this morning to find out what happened, they said DHL delivery services delivered the package at 9:18 AM... Well Ive been sitting here "Patiently" waiting in my garage for a truck to show up, and NO truck has came by yet.. But they said it was delivered to my address... HMMM they are calling now to find out where or what... So NO package yet...
The story continues...
Jon
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But they said it was delivered to my address... HMMM they are calling now to find out where or what... So NO package yet...
The story continues...
Jon
Jon, is your address not Motel 6, Wendover Utah...............
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Why any company that's been in business more then their first year would ever consider using DHL is beyond my imagination(at least here in many places on the east coast), I would rather hand it to a kid I don't know passing by on a bicycle. I quit ordering from one of our suppliers strictly because they use DHL.
This sucks Jon, sorry to hear.
Todd
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Why any company that's been in business more then their first year would ever consider using DHL is beyond my imagination(at least here in many places on the east coast), I would rather hand it to a kid I don't know passing by on a bicycle. I quit ordering from one of our suppliers strictly because they use DHL.
This sucks Jon, sorry to hear.
Todd
Ditto......i had something come in via them a couple months ago. it was suppose to be for a tuesday delivery...found out they only deliver to our little town on M-W-F, so thought I would get it wed.....driver got sick and they didn't have a substitute to deliver to us on wed., so it arrived on friday :roll: ............
Sum
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Well I finally got the ECU today..
I called DHL and they said they delivered it, a call to Haltech to find out situation and they had already called DHL services and they told them same thing... But wasn't delivered to here... Around 1:30 I finally got it, it was delivered to wrong address... It just had East Arkansas, no East Arkansas Dr.. So a call back to haltech, the guy who does the shipping, Not Matt the Haltech Guru, I asked him how he was supposed to deliver the package on the note from Matt, and it said One Day Air, Saturday Delivery AM service... Ok his first mistake.. Then I asked him what did the note say on the address, he quoted the note and it was perfect, then I asked him, "And what did you put in the shipping address as",,, Ohhh my mistake... They were also supposed to put in some ECU connector pins which did not happen either..
So I stated I am NOT paying for the service, for one it did not get to my address by 10:30, it was HIS mistake on the labeling address... I asked them what they could do for me, after loosing about a grand in entry fee's, FIM sanction and I missed the meet, he just stated I can't do anything for you.. But sorry... He said what do you want me to take it out of my personal account, well hell yes, SOMEONE has to be responsible for it, because money came out of mine.... The aggravation of this all is sickening.... And Haltech should do something for me,,, Just show a notion that they give a shit, and it was their mistake..
He was to talk to Matt and call me back,, but the phone never rang again from them...
So the new ECU installed and bike runs.. Now just waiting on word for USFRA meet. I had Stainless go on back to Wichita, Kansas... And he will come back around by Sunday for WOS.
Jon
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Let's get it on the dyno this weekend. That's the silver lining here, you'll have time to tune it right.
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Jon, see you at the WoS, have a save trip.
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Wow, I looked at the countdown today and there is like 17 days to go before bonneville. So I guess its time to knock the dust and the salt from last year off the bike and start working on it.
Whew time just isn't here for me this year... basically right now im just at bare frame and motor, I did have a to do list for over the winter and early spring but just out of time and I didnt start thinking about the bike till now. I still havent gotten my garage unpacked yet from our move in March.... My race trailer got broken into while I had it outside at the shop so I had to move it to my house, and needless to say Keilani still doesn't have parking spot in the new 3 bay garage. Lets see in bay number 1 we have boxes, bay number 2 we have a enclosed motorcycle trailer, and bay 3 we have the race bike. hmmm, as per Keilani, "Get your crap out of my garage"... Well I dont have anywhere for my trailer yet.... Wait it gets good, so K and I goto the shop to get some stuff out of the race trailer and when we get there we find all the locks cut off the trailer,,,ooo crap this isnt going to be good. I go inside and all the cabinets are opened, and I look around but I dont find anything gone.... Two sets of leathers, tools, power tools, nitrous kit, water injection kit, boxes of AN fittings etc etc... A closer inspection found only two things missing, one broken motorcycle battery charger and the hitch part of my equalizer hitch assembly.... But they left all the sway bars for the hitch to work.... So anyways we move the trailer to my house, and a 6x12 trailer will fit into a 7' garage going up a incline. You just have to take the wheels off the trailer, and manuver the trailer so the hubs are in the cracks of the cement, a few wheel dollies are your in, the hubs are only a 1/8" off the cement but it went... Well ok not that easy but it did go with less then a 1/4" to spare going inside. A couple pictures of current state of the bike, and a new harness done by Dave Dalhgren, he does exceptional work.
So anyways I guess 15 all nighters i should be ready to go, when is speedweek again.
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bike lift looks like one i got from harbor freight.
mine is fine , 1 1/2 yrs. any problems w/ yours?
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bike lift looks like one i got from harbor freight.
mine is fine , 1 1/2 yrs. any problems w/ yours?
Yes the bike on it ain't finished.... only 2 weeks left.... get to work Jon....
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Yes the bike on it ain't finished.... only 2 weeks left.... get to work Jon....
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/whip2.gif)
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it is not done . sorry to distract. will try back
after world finals.
to all going to the salt in 08 - have fun,
go fast, stop safe.
franey
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Bill Franey, a Maxton racer, right?
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Bill Franey, a Maxton racer, right?
If I have the right guy he's been to Maxton once & I believe with a hard tail which as you can guess didn't work so well! He's more of a Bonneville racer I believe just not as frequent to the meets as most. And his wife makes KILLER cookies!!!! We miss her! :-D
Deb
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Ok so not so ready yet... Getting close, Stainless is picking up a last few items for me on Wednesday.... Wednesday is going to be a down day, I have to work and im getting a little present in the afternoon (like a kid in a candy store) so that will take up all my time on Wednesday... But im off on Thursday... havent even gotten to the trailer yet. Did someone say Speedweek is coming soon?
Jon
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Apparently not being the webmaster hasn't freed up a lot of time for you.
Stan
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ooo it has freed up TONS of time for me, however my time has been tied up with some other projects, one of which is coming today....
Jon
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yes, sss ,deb is correct, you teched my rigid 10/07. 'what the #### kind of #'s
is apf 2k' ?
need suspension @ the max.
@ bub 07 & leaving in 8/27 for 08.
how was the room @ pine acres in april?
deb, will pass the kudos to diane. thanks.
she is bringing the same to bub , plus buckeyes.
franey
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ok, while we're waiting for the top secret new project surprise package to be revealed....
A minor (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/sign0101.gif) directed towards Franey (cause he's reading this thread)...
Thank you SOO MUCH for the stickers!!!!!!
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/rofl_200.gif) <=== me when I saw them!!!
Too funny, thanks for thinking of me! Haven't had a chance to write you my "official" thank you yet!
(he found some funny as heck "cone" stickers & sent them to me! :-D )
I now return you to staring at the screen waiting for the secret to be revealed.....
Deb
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ok, while we're waiting for the top secret new project surprise package to be revealed....
A minor (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/sign0101.gif) directed towards Franey (cause he's reading this thread)...
Thank you SOO MUCH for the stickers!!!!!!
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/rofl_200.gif) <=== me when I saw them!!!
Too funny, thanks for thinking of me! Haven't had a chance to write you my "official" thank you yet!
(he found some funny as heck "cone" stickers & sent them to me! :-D )
I now return you to staring at the screen waiting for the secret to be revealed.....
Deb
Deb..
The Eagle has landed... :mrgreen:
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:-)
So..... are you going to tell us about the new project?
Is it coming to Speed Week? Is it bigger then a breadbox?
Don't keep us in suspense man!
Deb
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Yes, No Yes.. :-P
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(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/g-pull_hair.gif)
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/throw_rock.gif)
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/waiting.gif)
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Ok so here is a teaser
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(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/2thumbs.gif)
Very cool!
Deb
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Someone got a real nice streamliner
Jon
Yes they did..!!
Ok so here is a teaser
Ohh yeah... lotsa room for your head to grow in that cage. :-D
Congrats!!!
Todd
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Ok so here is a teaser
Jon,
Congrats on the awesome ride!!!
K
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Is that the car from Montana, I think that was on the Salt severaly years ago that had a V6 mounted behind the rear wheels?? I wondered what happen to it. You going to stay with the V6?
Rex
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Rex, can't you just see him yankin' the engine out of his scooter and using it?
It would be a piece of cake to plumb it...........
Jon, I'm glad it's in your garage.
FREUD
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Probably not a coincidence:
Unblown Gas Streamliner - /GS
J Montana Magic N. Mays ' 90 215.632
Mike
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Probably not a coincidence:
Unblown Gas Streamliner - /GS
J Montana Magic N. Mays ' 90 215.632
Mike
That was their old liner that Burklands built for that record, it was powered by two Rotex engines. They sold that liner and built this new liner which is currently powered by a Buick V6 180" motor.
Jon
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Jon, I'm glad it's in your garage.
FREUD
Freud, just what I was thinking... Lots of toys in Jon's garage by the looks of it.... :-o :roll: :wink:
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you,re welcome, deb. on the mainframe 2-3x a week here @ public library.
stuck in the 90's, among other eras. good luck.
franey
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this isn't really a reply to anyone in particular, but here it goes anyway. The Charlie Toy body in question was built in 1992 and required a tremendous amount of time and effort. To finalize my original design I first had to build a water tunnel and model to test with. this body was the second generation body as it was built on top of the original body that i got in the 2 club with in 1991. it was successfull for a few years before i took it to Kent to have him make an actual mold from it as it was actually a male plug. it has been modified over the years from its original shape, especially in the front portion. possibly Kent still has the original, I'm not sure. mounting and stance of body on a motorcycle is very critical as small amounts of angle change can alter air flow way more than it may seem. tunnel testing shows that when mounted properly, boundary layers and laminar flow perform well above 260 mph. one of these days! i have other designs and styles that should perform even better. interested people can contact me anytime by email. Kent did a really nice job when he made the first mold for me and there a ways to improve this design with very little effort. air cooled and liquid cooled bikes can use modified front section to facilitate higher speeds.hello to Kent and others i haven't talked to for a while. god bless. charlie
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Here we go again. I neglected to say that my kawasaki with my original updated body ran as fast as 238+ mph on only 9lbs of boost with a stock kz1000 engine. When properly set up it really worked well. Charlie
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Damn Charlie, you can type... It is really great to see you on here. I have told people for years that the current body is NOT like the original. Now certain rules would prohibit the original design... And I have also stated that nobody had the body on like Charlie Did. I also remember one year you cutting up the front wheel fairing due to handling problems??
Where is your KZ1000 now? Ever a chance you would bring it back and kick some butt with that old air cooled, NON-intercooled, draw thru turbo setup??? We sure miss you out there.
I have a photo of the original body before paint, the picture was of you sitting on the bike possible over at Don Vesco's place. I will see if I can dig it out and post it.
JonAmo
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hey charlie
glad ta hear from ya...im gonna pm you cuz i have some changes planned and want to rum um by ya....talk to ya soon
kent
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"powered by a Buick V6 180" motor"
You mean an older 90° Buick V6 block (V8-derived) with a flat 2-plane crank for exhaust tuning?
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"powered by a Buick V6 180" motor"
You mean an older 90° Buick V6 block (V8-derived) with a flat 2-plane crank for exhaust tuning?
Maybe... we are not that deep into the motor yet to see what we have, we know it is a stage 2 block, with some indy heads. Look at the pictures and tell us... :-o We are not Buick guys (yet) and have a steep learning curve. We have started our research, we are consulting guys that we know that know the motor. As we learn more, so shall everyone else that participates here. If anyone has info you think we need, please share it with us, as I said, we are learning the motor, the drive train and the car. We are planning to race it next year. I plan to spend way too much time in Denver the next 10 months.
There is a build diary started for the car, this one is back to the Bike, please post all car replies on the car diary.