Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Captthundarr on December 13, 2011, 01:08:17 PM
-
During our shke down runs this past weekend we ha a little over heat issue going on. I've got the fan set up to push through the rad. Grill oneping blocked off ( C/GALT) pump rotation is right. did not over heat at the house. any ideas?
-
Could be air in the water system, do you have a way to fill and bleed off air.
-
What type of water pump do you have?
This issue has quite a bit of info on this site. Do a search...
-
check the pressure cap as well
-
Most of us who run in the altered classes re-circulate engine water through a on board water tank for that very reason.
On my car I have a 25 gallon tank that engine water goes into before re-entering the radiator. Water enters into the front of the intake manifold water passages and exits out the rear into the tank.
The engine never reaches 190 degrees even on 25% nitro.
I run no fan and the grills are covered. I use a belt driven water pump simillar to the ones Speedway Motors sell.
I preheat the water tank and my oil tank to get near operating temps before each run.
I believe Stainless does the same on his motorcycles with a Bic lighter.......... :evil: Bob
-
Electric water pump
puke tank
13 lb cap - new
I started thinking, bad idea, that with the grill blocked off that in the push thrrough configuation that the hot air had no where to go and it was pulling hot engine bay air into the rad. I'll search more. tanks
-
Most of us who run in the altered classes re-circulate engine water through a on board water tank for that very reason.
On my car I have a 25 gallon tank that engine water goes into before re-entering the radiator. Water enters into the front of the intake manifold water passages and exits out the rear into the tank.
The engine never reaches 190 degrees even on 25% nitro.
I run no fan and the grills are covered. I use a belt driven water pump simillar to the ones Speedway Motors sell.
I preheat the water tank and my oil tank to get near operating temps before each run.
I believe Stainless does the same on his motorcycles with a Bic lighter.......... :evil: Bob
Bob, started to think about a water tank as well, could the weight anyway, 32 gal sound like a lot for the Ohio Mile what do you think?
-
How large is the heat pump?
You can put in a 32, and run what you need for the shorter events, it does not have to be full. Our Turbo 84 incher runs 5 miles with a little over 5 gallons under 210 degrees.
be sure to internally brace for the pressure... PSI is force in pounds per square inch of surface.
-
350ci, know what PSI is thank you :wink:, yep a smaller tank say 25 gal. should do the job and adjust water level to find the happy medium. no plans to head to the salt anytime soon. Too poor like everyone else and job gets in the way. Thank for the food for thought.
-
350ci, know what PSI is thank you :wink:, yep a smaller tank say 25 gal. should do the job and adjust water level to find the happy medium. no plans to head to the salt anytime soon. Too poor like everyone else and job gets in the way. Thank for the food for thought.
Just be sure what PSI might do to your wheaties - check Buddies build!
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,8271.345.html
-
Pull flows more than a push fan.
-
It is correct that pull flows more than push but it still needs to be cool air. If you dont have cool air ducted to the rad then its just going to circulate the hot stuff & that wont cut it.
Sid.
-
Thanks Woody, couldn't remember which build I saw the tank discussion in and thanks to Sid, Joe and the rest. I just need folks to bounce stuff off of to get my gray matter swim'in.
-
If you are running a water tank you probably should not pressureize it. I would have a 1.5" vent out the rear of the car just in case you pop a head gasket into the water jacket. Think about what can go wrong with a lot of hot water where it may scald you.
-
Marty, thats good advice. I run two 3/4 vents with hot water heater pop offs which exit the car behind the rear tires.
I only put about fifteen gallons in my twenty plus gallon tank.
Another thing to keep in mind is that in a steam (head gasket) situation a round tank is much stronger than a rectangular shape in burst strength.
Bob
-
In '99 we experienced a head failure (BGMR with turbo) that torched longintudinally through the combustion chambers, blew a hole through the timing cover, burnt the cam belt idler pulley bearing, and finally blew a water hose off at a firewall nipple. Our rectangular tank held, though it did bow the sides and top. That tank was made from 16 guage mild steel, with a single central baffle. We used a pressure cap, with relief into a catch tank. When the pressure spiked, the cap couldn't relieve fast enough but that's what happens with catastrophic failures.
The pressure cap question is a hard one to answer; if you raise the pressure it's harder for the water to boil. I now run both radiator (w/ pressure cap and recovery tank) and large tank on my pushrod bike, but I run reverse flow (into the heads, and out through the block...I can make water heat but not oil/block heat). I run the radiator immediately after the block (before the cooling tank) because a radiator works best when temperature differential is as high as possible. This has worked perfectly (learned it from the guys at TRD).
A perfect example is Fuel Cell cars, which need a LOT of real estate for huge radiators. Not because they make that much heat, but because the temp differential is too small (compared to ambient air temp), yet the stack needs temperature controlled accurately.
I forgot that lesson in 2010, running a pair of radiators in series (without a water tank). I was very little better off than a single radiator, because the second radiator did not contribute much calorie absorption while adding additional restriction to the water flow! Ooooops. :-P
food for thought, I guess.
JimL
-
I've been wondering about this pressurization talk. For over ten years we've run about 15 gallons in our 18 gallon tank in the rear. Highest temp (in the engine) past the 5-mile has been 185ยบ. I've thought of restricting it to bring more heat in the engine which would be easy with the gate valve at the bottom of the tank, but have never done it. The valve also helps when changing engines or such. Hard to find 15 gallon containers if you gotta drain the whole thing.
Stan
-
Stan....That is also quite a distance from front to rear to run hose and /or tubing.I`m sure there are losses in temperature over length. My car will also have a tank in the back, with an aluminum radiator inside, and I am going to use mainly aluminum tubing front to rear with a small amount of hose. I am planning to put valves in the system, in case of drain necessities. Not sure where to put these, front or rear. I wonder if there is any way to figure the heatloss in the layout, or maybe I can use your results and maybe downsize my system a touch.......any thoughts?...Anyone?
-
Stupid question from an air cooled guy!
If I remember correctly, on a conventionally water cooled car, the reservoir is at the top of the radiator which is above the elevation of the cylinder heads. After you fill the radiator and reservoir with water, you have to start the motor with the cap off and wait for the air bubbles to disappear, then refill the tank. This is to ensure that air is not trapped in the uppermost crooks and crannies of the cooling system, especially not in the heads.
If you have a remote water tank in the trunk, which doesn't seem like it could be above the level of the cylinder heads, how do you bleed the air out of the system? Putting a restrictor on the outlet might help, until you shut off the motor and the water shrinks a bit, pulling air back into the system. I would have the same hesitation about running the water backwards, thru the heads first and out of the block at some lower point.
Any plumbers out there (Joe D?) could probably tell you a few stories about trying to get the air out of the hot water heating system on the third floor of a house.
Tom
-
It's pretty common practice to put an air bleed at the highest point in the system although I have seen people jack cars into some pretty crazy positions to bleed a system. A bleeder at the highest point is definitely the easiest way. Sometimes more than one bleed point is handy if the water routing tends to be on the circuitous side.
Pete