Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: manifest on November 28, 2011, 02:22:54 PM
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A friend called me the other evening and said one of his parnets friends from the OH area had called (ECTA I presume) about running a bike at the Wilmington event in April and was told there would be a limit on entries, 150 cars and 150 bikes. Is this a true statement or has he been misinformed or what? I looked over this forum and others and looked at our ECTA site but did not see anything that would make anyone think this. Figured I would ask the masses on here before I bother the Keith Tonya Joe or Donna by phone.
Zach
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There will be a limit of 150 entries TOTAL
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Is this for the April event only or all events.
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When is registration opening for the April event?
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Alright, at first thought 150 doesn't sound like much but I have never done a car count at Maxton. Is this a pit space issue or just going with a limit to help control the first event and test the waters? Will existing members get dibs on entering? I know the more new members we can have the better it is for the racing community but its a little worrisome to think there is only a small window of opprotunity that we'll have to get a ticket in to run.
Dad spoke with Tonya earlier today and she said it may be towards the first of the year before they set an entry fee because they don't know how much its going to cost for use of the facilities, I think.
Please correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Timney
Zach
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If memory serves -- 150 entries would be a BIG turnout for an ECTA event. I believe I heard we had nearly that many at the finale in October 2011, and that was for sure the biggest turnout I'd ever seen there.
My guess is that ECTA officials are thinking the limit will make this first-time race event less unmanageable. Remembering that the first event of the year is the Hot Rod Magazine Top Speed event, and adding to that the fact that Wilmington might have a larger turnout because it's a bit more centrally located - and you've got good reasons to guess that maybe that 150 is a wise thing - else there'd be lines hours long. Over to you, Joe.
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At Maxton, the ECTA runs an extremely efficient event. If you check the run logs you will see that without an oil down or stoppage there are 40 runs in an hour. If there are 150 entries .... well you can do the math ...
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I can understand the limit but I think it would also be fair to give current members dibs up to a certain date at least.
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At Maxton, the ECTA runs an extremely efficient event. If you check the run logs you will see that without an oil down or stoppage there are 40 runs in an hour. If there are 150 entries .... well you can do the math ...
"the math"... yes indeed.
I loved Maxton's normal "club meetings" at 60-70 entrants; a family affair.
The special final meeting with 150 was a hoot yakking with folks; who cared about grid wait times, it was a special final meeting at Maxton.
But 150 entrants is no longer a "club meeting", it is an event, all logistics go to a whole new level.
Like it or not, the event is a business, not just friends out for a fun weekend, now you have a bunch of customers along with yr family.
Texas started out Oct 2003 as a club meeting with 35 entrants; for several years its been over 200, with several thousand spectators.
The organizers grew the staff along with grid and spectator count, but we the racers have bitched about grid count ever since it went over about 120. Even with all the excellent organization/staff, waiting 2, sometimes 3 hours at every event to make a pass SUCKS. This ain't Bonneville with 4-5 days...
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more observations...
I go to all the asphalt venues, all different.
After a bit of a logistical mess in April, Mojave's Owner Mike Border set entrants at 120 for Oct.
That worked out well, helped by Mike's 110% event organization and dedicated long-time staff.
Last Loring entrant count was about 100???, don't remember exactly.
Sat was a bit of a mess, long grid waits, lotsa grumbling. But on Sun, Joe Daly seemed to take control of staging and things DRAMATICALLY improved. Don't know what he did, but it sure worked.
Texas has been having 210-230 entrants for some years now.
Race Director Ryan Arnold and his staff are very well organized, controls & moves the grid as fast as possible, they have a buncha trained Joe Daly clones (gotta say that pre-stage girl is MUCH cuter than JD) in grid and staging. Grid waits still WAY too long.
You notice i'm not mentioning registration fees bc to be honest $100 or $350 is peanuts compared with my 7.5mpg travel costs, and the many, many thou$and$ in my bike. It seems to me that big events cost more per racer than small meets.
I have 110% confidence in Joe & Keith, they have their work cut out for them as they transition from "family meeting" to "event".
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I do not mind the long lines (prefer not to have them) but this is racing. I love racing. I would just like to make sure that I am registered.
Racheal
Plus I needed a few more posts :-)
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Racheal... do an intro post... that will give you one more :-D
fill out your profile
Beat ya to it Jon...
Thanks for pointing out my fast finger failure....
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'cept he meant "intro". :evil: :evil: :-D
Pete
We all seem to get the same finger problems going! :-D :-D :-D
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Ditto Stainless comment
Everyone fill out pers info. Its nice to know names and locations.
Inspectors and rule makers are exempt! Cept for Warner :-d
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Racheal, if you don't fill in the information on the Profile -- I'll do it for you :evil: :evil:
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Was 150 an ECTA record for entries? Maybe it was because we were in a smaller pit area in '07-09; but before the economic crunch, driver's meetings looked about the same size. The resolution to limited entries is apparently something most other venues have had to struggle with and our leaders may well have been involved in many of them. This resolution will be interesting and how might it impact year end awards. Spectator revenue increases should certainly go up but their accomodation cost will rise. I hope the Turks and Timneys have time to work in a Holiday season with this incredible task of moving and restructuring. Good Luck
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Well, for sure the drivers meeting at the October 2011 meet was less-attended than it could have been. remember, Milwaukee Midget was in the pits and making hellacious noises with his engine - when he SHOULD have been at the meeting. We all learned something from that: If you're planning on skipping the drivers meeting (not a good idea at any time), for sure don't blip the throttle of your unmuffled race engine during the meeting. It only announces that you are not in attendance.
Over to you, Chris :evil: :evil:
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Just a heads up to everyone. SCTA/BNI has been doing this for over 60 years. The lakes and Bonneville are old hat to us. When we went to Muroc everything changed as the venue was totally different. We had to make adjustments and volunteer positions etc. The USAF worked with us but watched every move and followed us to assure we didn't stray.
As ECTA is going to a new venue it will be the same deal. It's all new, the property owners will watch everything and probably ask for changes. Every racer and crew member should be at the drivers meeting and do the course drive down so you know where to go. The first day is always a bitch for all. Cooperate with ECTA officials and the people loaning us a place to race. Like they say first impressions are forever. Trash, if you haul it in you take it out. Oil should be put into your own containers as well and taken home. One other thing, help ECTA with the track tear down and clean up before you go home.
This will be a big learning curve for all sides. Have fun, go fast and be safe.
:cheers:
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Math ? OK let's have a crack at it.
Base assumptions
150 Entries
40 Runs per hour
0 Major delays (Ohio will have a second lane to switch to, in case of big problem)
14 Hours Total Run time. Saturday 9:30 to 6:00 with 30 min lunch break = 8 hours
Sunday 8:00 to 2:00 = 6 hours
14x40=560 Total Runs
560 / 150 = 3.73 Runs per entry
(this may equate to 4 + runs per bike and only 3 per car)
Hmm, I am going to make gear changes and pack the chute in the staging lanes, no going to the pits between my 3 runs, maybe 4
I feel with a 60% bike 40% car ratio and the excellent staff at the ECTA we can sure strive to average more than 40 runs per hour... maybe as many as 50 runs per hour.
By averaging 50 runs per hour the math goes from 3.73 runs per entry up to 4.66
I am not going to sweat the details,, I am just going to show up, help as best I can and race...
See ya in Ohio
Charles
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Charles that is the attitude. Make sure your ready , if not have people pass you . Coroperate and graduate. For Sure Wilmington will be different and it will not be the same as Maxton. It will be alot better. Just the fact that there are not two turns. a oh crap bump at 5/8 of a mile and a obstacle course makes me really happy. The fact that we can really get serious about aerodynamics without tearing the bottom of the car off and I won't get back to the pits with rocks the size of softballs wedged between the pan and transmission. Its all good. I can't wait.
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Charles, thank you for the math lesson. As things progress, we will post all Ohio updates on the ECTA website.
Keith & I will be out there next week to workout more details of the operation of the event. So many details...so little time!!!
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Well, for sure the drivers meeting at the October 2011 meet was less-attended than it could have been. remember, Milwaukee Midget was in the pits and making hellacious noises with his engine - when he SHOULD have been at the meeting.
Over to you, Chris :evil: :evil:
The single most important lesson I learned that weekend.
Well, that, and if you're late to the meeting, the coffee runs out . . .
Seriously, the first time anything happens at a new venue, there will be snags - if you go in expecting them, then you're either right or pleasantly surprised.
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Charles outstanding math.
I should have listened to my high school math teacher he told me some day I was going to need this stuff LOL.
Seems to me a cap of 150 vehicles would make the first events manageable until the bugs if any are worked out. BUT knowing the gear head capital of the country is Ohio I bet its going to get really crowded as the word gets out to those gear heads. Now that's not a bad thing just saying the cap might have to be raised as time goes on.
Ron
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Sorry to be an Eeyore, but that math only works if the rescue truck shows up on time, the computers are working, the printer is working, the weather is clear, and no one breaks anything and oils down the course. :-D
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Sorry to be an Eeyore, but that math only works if the rescue truck shows up on time, the computers are working, the printer is working, the weather is clear, and no one breaks anything and oils down the course. :-D
150 entries is a lot and I'm sure the interest that is being generated in Ohio will bring in a lot of new racers. I know the Maine event at Loring was very crowded last year and Saturday was a 3 run day if you were in line early in the AM. Not sure what the event total was there. I like the 120 entry cap a little better, but I'm game for whatever it ends up being. It would be nice to offer a predetermined amount of slots to ECTA regulars. Another amount to 1st time entrants. If the 1st timers doesn't fill up by a certain date, offer them to anyone. I'm sure the ECTA will do a good job of getting it sorted. I am like the rest and want as many runs as I can get. I know I was spoiled at Maxton.
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Greg, you won't have too worry. Not that many folks want to get up at 4:00am to put their bikes in pre-stage. Not much room for run for fun (which I know pleases many) unless you show up with a 'Busa and a bunch of stickers -- still won't work for but one meet.
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Greg, you won't have too worry. Not that many folks want to get up at 4:00am to put their bikes in pre-stage. Not much room for run for fun (which I know pleases many) unless you show up with a 'Busa and a bunch of stickers -- still won't work for but one meet.
(http://www.warp12racing.com/images/WeaponX/wxbuild510.jpg)
I'm out to get Greg's spot in line.... :-D
Shane
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The organizers could say on the application that they have the right to limit the number of runs a person could make in a specified time. As an example, during the busy periods a person would be allowed only one run every four hours. This might work better than limiting the entries.
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I know there are mixed feeling on this but what about the people who come out and run cars that can't even tech over 135mph? Everyone knows they can run faster and do but slow down for the lights. What about a 1 run only for cars like that or a just plain race cars only rule. If you can't tech to the record in your class, you can't run at all.
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I know there are mixed feeling on this but what about the people who come out and run cars that can't even tech over 135mph? Everyone knows they can run faster and do but slow down for the lights. What about a 1 run only for cars like that or a just plain race cars only rule. If you can't tech to the record in your class, you can't run at all.
Better yet . . . limit entries to only AA/BFS. That will keep out all those pesky "cars that can't even tech over 135mph?"
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Does anyone know if Wilmington has lighting? This would be something to look into I think. I know lighting is not cheap on that scale but to be able to start running earlier and stay later would be great. Cold track may limit speeds somewhat but I have watched many outlaw radial and other small tired full bodied drag cars make 150+mph passes late into the night at South Georgia under the light. Just a thought...
Zach
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I have mixed emotions (yes I have emotions :evil:) on limiting the amount of runs a paying entrant can get.
However you do bring up an interesting point, if you are safety tech-ed to a certain speed (135,150, 175) once you license up and then if you reach that tech speed, what is the purpose of making more runs ?
My ONLY purpose in making subsequent runs is to TRY to run faster than my previous run.
Going back to the pits and making changes that I feel will get me more MPH on the next run.
If you are tech-ed to a speed and reach it,,,what else is there,, you are max'd out ??
At the USFRA ,WOS event for the 130 and 150 club once you attain the goal speed you are done (5 runs max to get to 130 or 150,,,from what I have been told,, I may be mis informed)
Just my thoughts
Charles
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However you do bring up an interesting point, if you are safety tech-ed to a certain speed (135,150, 175) once you license up and then if you reach that tech speed, what is the purpose of making more runs ?
I'm going to guess "fun". While there are some who are only out to chase a record or number, I think a lot of people want to come to the track to have fun. I don't think that limiting the runs an entrant can make would be a step in the right direction for the ECTA.
Limiting total entries, if needed, and running efficiently is the best approach, imo. I also wonder if there is some equipment that could be rented or purchased that would help to limit the downtime due to oil-downs and such?
Shane
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However you do bring up an interesting point, if you are safety tech-ed to a certain speed (135,150, 175) once you license up and then if you reach that tech speed, what is the purpose of making more runs ?
I'm going to guess "fun". While there are some who are only out to chase a record or number, I think a lot of people want to come to the track to have fun. I don't think that limiting the runs an entrant can make would be a step in the right direction for the ECTA.
Limiting total entries, if needed, and running efficiently are the best approach, imo. I also wonder if there is some equipment that could be rented or purchased that help to limit the downtime due to oil-downs and such?
Shane
totally agree! :cheers:
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There is so much speculation ... No one can predict the number of entries. I would expect that a first event would draw a lot of entries but I would also be surprised if it didnt level off in future events. Joe and Keith are very good at running an event and I have confidence in their ability to do this right.
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There is so much speculation ... No one can predict the number of entries. I would expect that a first event would draw a lot of entries but I would also be surprised if it didnt level off in future events. Joe and Keith are very good at running an event and I have confidence in their ability to do this right.
Let's also see what the cost is going to be. I know that Joe and Keith want to keep it affordable, but it's my understanding that this is going to be a more expensive venue to run at, and we may wind up with a somewhat self regulated entry list due to additional costs.
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I'll once more offer the comment that the first meet of the year is the Hot Rod magazine-sponsored Top Speed event -- and that brings out a large number of racers that likely won't be there at other events. It'll therefore be a bit difficult to draw valid conclusions about attendance.
But - I betcha Joe and Keith will get a good idea of what to expect, es,pecially when they consult with Donna and Tonya. :roll:
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"Better yet . . . limit entries to only AA/BFS. That will keep out all those pesky "cars that can't even tech over 135mph?""
No it won't. Anyone can up enter into a larger engine displacement class.
Charles,
May I offer that the reason people continue to run after meeting their tech speed is so that they can add to their siganture line?
DW
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I know there are mixed feeling on this but what about the people who come out and run cars that can't even tech over 135mph? Everyone knows they can run faster and do but slow down for the lights. What about a 1 run only for cars like that or a just plain race cars only rule. If you can't tech to the record in your class, you can't run at all.
Better yet . . . limit entries to only AA/BFS. That will keep out all those pesky "cars that can't even tech over 135mph?"
This is no offense meant to actual competitors who race, like you. There are alot of cars that run 135 all day long when they can actually run much faster but because they don't want to build the car to run to it's limit, they haul ass for 3/4 of a mile then slow to 135 for the lights. Like I said, if you can't tech to your class record then I think you shouldn't be allowed to run.
For example, I remember one meet last year there was a new Nissan GTR running. This car was easily capable of well over 150mph or better but all he did all day long was go as fast as he could before braking hard to go through the lights at 135 so he wouldn't get yelled at. He didn't slow down enough one run and he got yelled at. I just don't see a point in letting people run like that.
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"Better yet . . . limit entries to only AA/BFS. That will keep out all those pesky "cars that can't even tech over 135mph?""
No it won't. Anyone can up enter into a larger engine displacement class.
Charles,
May I offer that the reason people continue to run after meeting their tech speed is so that they can add to their siganture line?
DW
:cheers:
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Java joe
If you pay the entry fee and show up with a legal car or bike you have a right to run! My everyday street car has to run against a record of 237 mph (F/BGSS) so I don't have the right to run??? Bull ;$&!!!!
J.Eken
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Charles,
May I offer that the reason people continue to run after meeting their tech speed is so that they can add to their siganture line?
DW
DW, looks like you and Stan have a "thing" about signature lines ??
But by running the same "tech limited" say 135 mph, run after run after run ..how would that add to a signature line ? and what the heck does a signature line have to do with a tech limit or enrty limits or the wait time in a staging line ?
Charles
Oh yeah,, DW , I have a a lot of respect for you and all you do for the SCTA and the competitors, but a man with your degree of earned respect in LSR, should not be so antognistic to others just because we run a differant venue.
I also know you are referring to my long signature line,,if it's length bothers you, then you can sure solve that problem, just show up with a car in one of those classes and knock that record off my signature line,,, I think it would be fun... come on to Ohio or Loring,, let's enjoy some good ole competition....
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"...how would that add to a signature line ?"
By running in a class with no record?
I do not have a problem with anyone who puts wheels on the track. Any track. The venue is what it is and I don't hate the players.
While I enjoyed my trip to Maxon and have been discussing a trip to Wilmington with Fogie. I have absolutely no interest in those classes and speeds.
DW
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DW, well then,,,
If you make it to Ohio, look me up,, we can have a drink or 3
My Treat..
Oh by the way, I will be easy to find,, my race rig is like my signature line,,, LONG LOL :cheers:
Charles
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Its huge!! When I saw it at loring I thought somebody had two cars. :-D
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Hello , I guess I'm a newbie to this type of racing, though I have been involved with racing for 40 some years. I do understand the concern about number of participants and the logistics to run. But it does raise the question about choosing the entrants. I have been building sprint cars, midgets and supers for quite a while and have two new cars in production now for Willming ton. Believe me it is stressing to hear suggested comments about how to pick who will be allowed to race and who wont. I have talked with both Keith and Joe and am sure there are a multitude of changes to make in the operation of our events, but guys to put it plain, Willming ton has opened the door to so many more racers than was ever thought of at Maxton. 150 entrants seems a good number but realistically I would not be surprised to see that at each event.I would hope that entrance will be on a first come basis with some guidelines for how well you run on your record ( sort of like time trials, you only get maybe two passes to get to your class speed or within reach of it or you are dis qualified and done for the weekend. These are only food for thought. I just don't want to build two cars and not be able to compete because we are new to the organisation. Jim
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Java joe
If you pay the entry fee and show up with a legal car or bike you have a right to run! My everyday street car has to run against a record of 237 mph (F/BGSS) so I don't have the right to run??? Bull ;$&!!!!
J.Eken
That's my point!!! Legal car to run the record speed in your class. Will your car pass tech enough to run as fast as you can run? Then fine with me. Its the cars capable of running faster then they can tech that bother me. Problem is, they actually run faster then they are allowed by the rules but the slow down for the lights. Why even allow that to happen?
Look at it like this for example. At Bonneville, if you don't have a cage, you don't run. Why not make it that easy and weed out people who aren't serious enough about the sport to commit that much to safety. Wanna run 200+ with just a roll bar and a fire extinguisher strapped to it and be lucky you survived when you lose a tire and go air borne? There are other venues that allow that.
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Java joe
The ECTA has a l o n g history of allowing STREET cars to run. The only"salt" at Wilmington is in the shakers of the local restaurants. I drive my car on the street EVERYDAY and a full cage (remember the 237mph record?) would not allow a cup holder for my morning coffee. I don't even wan't to think about the containment seat and local traffic here in NJ. AND..... If you think I'am NOT serious about LSR come visit me at the timing computer next April; a job that I've had since April of '05.
J. Eken
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I know I can speak for my partners, Donna, Tonya and Keith when I say that we value all of our competitors equally. In our eyes the little guy is just as important as the big guy. We don't like having any limits but we need to get The Ohio Mile running smoothly first before we up or remove the limit. All of us will be rookies at Wilmington and 'Herding Cats' isn't an easy task!!! We expect a lot of new 'to land speed racing' racers coming to Ohio and they will not be experienced with our systems as our regular competitors.
We will announce when registration will be open using the ECTA website (www.ecta-lsr.com) , Facebook, Landracing and Bangshift sites.
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Hey guys... calm down, let's not start scrapping among ourselves... LSR is a family event and with the move to Ohio the family just got bigger. Let Joe and Keith worry the hows and why. I'll bet the new competitors outnumber the old 2 to 1, why, it's a long way from the old family reunion spot to the new.
Give the event a chance to develop, Maxton had growing pains, so will Wilmington...
Remember to have fun, be safe and go fast :cheers:
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Thank you Stainless!!! Oh Yeah, now that we have a smooth track, come race with us!!!
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Java joe
The ECTA has a l o n g history of allowing STREET cars to run. The only"salt" at Wilmington is in the shakers of the local restaurants. I drive my car on the street EVERYDAY and a full cage (remember the 237mph record?) would not allow a cup holder for my morning coffee. I don't even wan't to think about the containment seat and local traffic here in NJ. AND..... If you think I'am NOT serious about LSR come visit me at the timing computer next April; a job that I've had since April of '05.
J. Eken
You are really taking what I am saying the wrong way. I am sorry that I have come across to you the way I have. Please try and hear me out and not take offense so easily. Look on the bright side, the F/BGSS record is only 191 so you maybe it won't cost as much as you thought :cheers:
But seriously what I am talking about does not even include you as you are a regular competitor and long time member but if your F/BGSS car is capable of more speed then it is teched to and you exceed that speed every time you run only to slow for the lights, is that not skirting the rules?
I am talking about the cars that show up every event and blatantly break the rules in my eye by going over their teched speed before the lights then slowing down to finish their run. Safety is a serious matter at ECTA events and allowing this to go on has always confused me. I know it is hard to say what speed someone was going before braking for the lights but when they are obviously braking hard, you know they were going faster then they are supposed to.
I just think some discretion could be used and cars like that could be turned away. It's no different then any other form of motorsport where if you can't meet the rules, you can't run.
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Finally Joe has opened a topic that I am something of an expert at - cat herding. We have 11 indoor cats (& my mother-in-law's 2). The first thing is to get them all to sit down together for a productive chat.
There's no telling how long it will take a standard format to evolve. A down side to moving to such a more populated area will be the masses coming once (good for club memborship revenue) only to discover that this is not for them. A simple review of the points at Maxton shows a large number of one event a year participants. How many rookie orientation faces return? The reality that speed is not hitting a number with a needle; it's a time slip, seems to be an insurmountable shock for many.
Obviously, this topic of entries is complex. Add in competitor ameneties, venders (if food only), spectators and their needs, like an electrified enclosure for children and pets, pit space, track access..... Pray for the Timneys and Turks and their chance to even remember this coming Holiday Season. peace out
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Dag Phit, I thought me and Amy were the only ones with a herd (6 inside cats + 3 outside dawgs) After reflecting on our 4 years with the ECTA the trend of 1st race of the year (shootout) being "packed" and the last race (throttle nation) being "packed" was still not at 150 entries and the mid summer events at Maxton where the the temp was 96 and the humidity was 96 and the gnat count was 96 million per person folks were making 10 plus passes with the record I believe one dude on a bike made 23 or so. If folks think that the summer events in Ohio will be "cooler" and more user friendly they would be mistaken. I feel no envy for Joe, Keith, Donna and Tonya's for the task before them as it seems daunting to me and we greatly appreciate their efforts. If everyone keeps their marbles in one bag and police them selves and those around them thing will work out fine.
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. . . an electrified enclosure for children and pets,.....
Gee Ken. Kinda harsh don't ya think. . . . OK, for children maybe . . but for pets? that's just cruel.
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Frank, I didn't mention the 6 horses including the mini Butters or as I like to call him Major Mayhem. You're right Art, maybe some of those runs with overhead cables and collars would be more appropriat. My mother-in-law who has dementia (worse than me) suggested one of those for her if she gets really bad off - atleast she won't need more than one DVD. Recently there was a walk for Alzheimers - about 30 silver alerts came out of that one.
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My Question is about the Top Speed Challange Entries. Will we be called up at a certain time period or is it going to be the luck of the draw like last year. Sitting in line 8hrs and not getting to make a pass is a little harsh to swallow.Then not being able to retain our spot overnight unless you leave your car out in the elements of possible theft or damage. Just a question,don't get your drawers in a wad. :|
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This is Land Speed Racing get to the front of the line your next to run. Long lines we ALL wait longer. Theres no special treatment if you run 32 MPH or 250 MPH its all the same we wait for our time on the coarse.
Remember the idea is to be safe, have fun and then go fast. And maybe get a special jacket.
Ron
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This is Land Speed Racing get to the front of the line your next to run. Long lines we ALL wait longer. There's no special treatment if you run 32 MPH or 250 MPH its all the same we wait for our time on the coarse.
Remember the idea is to be safe, have fun and then go fast. And maybe get a special jacket.
Ron
You being shown as a newbie the same as I you are allowed to make that statement. I'm not a newbie at this and the question was abit over your head i suppose. You must be very unaware of what the Top Speed Challenge is all about. Hot Rod Mag puts this on and with their involvement has really brought much attention to land speed racing. Its like having a Pro Mod meet at the local dragstrip along with their regular racing program. As far as the special jacket goes, I Have Three (3) of them. I have fun,go fast , and do it safely. Good luck to you in your racing adventures. Larry
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UD --- Ronnie isnt a rookie ... and the Land Speed Racing community is a far cry from drag racing - We are all equal and compete against a record not each other ... very different.
Joe
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My Question is about the Top Speed Challange Entries. Will we be called up at a certain time period or is it going to be the luck of the draw like last year. Sitting in line 8hrs and not getting to make a pass is a little harsh to swallow.Then not being able to retain our spot overnight unless you leave your car out in the elements of possible theft or damage. Just a question,don't get your drawers in a wad. :|
Keith and Al will let you leave a cone or the like to mark your place in line.
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Larry, I guess this means you and Frank will be running this coming year. Good deal. I could see how possibly having the Top Speed Challenge guys run all at once would be an advantage. You guys are what draws the spectators in, street legal cars running over 200. Most don't understand the rest of us running 140 in a vw or 60 on a small cc bike. It would be easy, I would think, to say that all top speed cars be ready to run by a said time. Have one lane prepped and ready to run. Bring all of you up and give it a go. It would keep the speeds fresh on everyones minds and make it easier for the fans to relate to what cars are actually running in the challenge. Land speed racing is not drag racing but when you get down to the top speed challenge you might as well be fighting for #1 qualifier at Indy. Just my thoughts at 7am.
Zach
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8 hours in line would be harsh with all those people making two or three passes breaking in line. Dean - see if you rode a harley, you wouldn't need a cone to mark your place in line.
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8 hours in line would be harsh with all those people making two or three passes breaking in line. Dean - see if you rode a Harley, you wouldn't need a cone to mark your place in line.
I am glad someone mentioned "breaking in line"
At the October meet on that Saturday, I got in Line for my first run at approximately
11:30am, I waited very patiently and at around 5:15/5:20 pm I was in lane 1 all suited up and buckled in warming the engine, the starter came over tightened my belts, gave me a firm hand shake, wished me well and put up my window net and directed me to get ready I was 3 back.
As I was pulling up 3rd in line now the S10 truck blew up and oiled down the track. about 5:30 pm,,, runs logs have the exact time... to much oil, no more time,, I sat in the car till about 5:50 when the tower told the starting line we are DONE for the day.
I did not get upset,.. I waited in line for 6 hours and not a single run.. there is always Tomorrow I said...
But what did upset me was the fact that some folks made two and three runs between 11:30am and 5:30pm ??? How could that happen ? They must have been breaking in line ?
So on Sunday I made my first run (of the event and for the day) as I recall around
10:00 am.. give or take 15 minutes ...by the time my recover truck met me in long shut down and we headed towards the staging lines, to my amazement the staging lines was at the FINSISH Line,, wow,, I was able to get another run at about 1:15pm..
However what I did observe was "what appeared to be" folks passing me in line and going to one of the breaks in the line (where we had been told to leave open for fire and rescue) and folks "appeared to be" breaking in line there. I am not going to call out any names,, but if you are curious, just look at the run logs and if anyone ran after my first run and again before my second run then the only way would have been if they broke in line.
Just an observation...
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At El Mirage the situation got so bad that we had to go to starting position based on points. Call up only 25 at a time, no saving spots, no putting a truck in line then pulling out when the car/bike shows up, etc. As you can see there are any number of things that can be done to circumvent the etiquette of the line.
Police yourselves, don't be so PC that you can't tell the AH to go to back.
DW
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Maybe I need to clarify my question a little more. I'm only asking about the Top Speed Challenge Event. Frank and I have always waited our turn on the other events. We have very much enjoyed fellowship with the other racers in line with us. We've stood by while the decisions of the race director felt condition's didn't warrent fast cars on the track at that time.No problem. We don't run for points anymore,been there,done that ,won that. Our motto has always been Where Fast Is Still Fun. The TSC is our main focus at this time as we are on a very limited budget. Its the only coverage that ECTA receives in the Hot Rod mag. Once you win something like that or stand up and police the rules you get a bulls eye on your back.We've had that feeling for a long time just because we questioned a entree that was illegal per our rule book. We thought that's what were supposed to do. We wish everyone good luck this coming year and will as always enjoy seeing you again,and meeting new people. Go fast,be safe,have fun. :-D
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Larry, I guess this means you and Frank will be running this coming year. Good deal. I could see how possibly having the Top Speed Challenge guys run all at once would be an advantage. You guys are what draws the spectators in, street legal cars running over 200. Most don't understand the rest of us running 140 in a vw or 60 on a small cc bike. It would be easy, I would think, to say that all top speed cars be ready to run by a said time. Have one lane prepped and ready to run. Bring all of you up and give it a go. It would keep the speeds fresh on everyones minds and make it easier for the fans to relate to what cars are actually running in the challenge. Land speed racing is not drag racing but when you get down to the top speed challenge you might as well be fighting for #1 qualifier at Indy. Just my thoughts at 7am.
Zach
So does that mean you also do the same for the Motorcycle Shootout event. If so that would be 2 events of the 4 that you limit what the rest of the competitors do.
It seems to me that things were normally good at Maxton. If you are going to have more entries than the track can handle, you limit the number of entries. They do a good job of that at Texas. Registration opens at a certain time and when the field is full, there is only stand by left. It seems to work. I think however it is done it will work out fine. Limit the entries to allow the competitors to get some runs, and make the registration fair for all. I'm game. Just me though.
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The solution is a simple one. If an event is over subscribed and there are more entries than the event can handle, just raise the price until it levels. That is called in economics supply and demand.
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More than once I've driven to Maxton and waited all weekend to make just one or two runs. If the wait is long, I'll still go. If it rains one day, I'll still go. If I want to be assured a spot, I'll preregister. For me, LSR isn't like drag racing where one weekend makes or breaks my attitude. I'm in this for the long haul and don't mind so much if it takes all year to make enough runs for the next record.
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Rev, I agree with you
I am 100% confident all will be well in Ohio,,,
If we encounter longer waits and less runs per entrant,
There a few ways to accommodate more entries and still get 4 to 5 runs per entrant on average.
Charge a few bucks more for entry fee and ??
1. Extend the run times on Sunday from the 2:00pm stop time to 5:00pm...that gains 70 to 100 potential runs (if there are no lines after 3:00pm close then)
2. Add a day to the event,
Tech on Thursday afternoon. Start Runs on Friday from 1:00 to 6:00
3. Have a provisional staging line for entrants who have not made a run that day to get in line.
For the first 3 Hours each day have 2 or 3 staging lines open that anyone can use.
After 3 hours or some pre set time, designate a lane (lane 3)
ONLY for entrants that have not made a run that day.
This provisional lane may not be perfect but what it could do is come as close as possible to guaranteeing each entrant at least 2 runs (excepting for track delays) without adding any time or cost to the event.
Sorry my mind is a logistics playground (come on in) LOL
(in my past life i was Director for Championship State and National Level Shooting Tournaments for up to 250 gun toting adrenalin junkies.. trust me,, everything had to go smooth.. we played with live ammo !!!
Charles
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Gee so many ideas but really nothing is broken seems to me theres no need to fix it. Having attended a number of events at Maxton first as a helper with Steve's roadster and finally with my own car we always have made at least two runs and usually three during an event even with rain and high wind delays. How do we do it by being efficient ready to run when we arrive and get in line when it opens no mystery to how its done.
Now if there was a way to eliminate the wind and rain more runs could take place. Remember we run on a runway that's built into the wind so a plane can take off the way I see it the wind is our bigest enemy. Figure out how to solve that problem and more runs can take place.
Just my thoughts
Ron
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Wilmington being new, run with the wind and factor wind speed into the speed.
DW
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1. Extend the run times on Sunday from the 2:00pm stop time to 5:00pm...that gains 70 to 100 potential runs (if there are no lines after 3:00pm close then)
2. Add a day to the event,
Tech on Thursday afternoon. Start Runs on Friday from 1:00 to 6:00
3. Have a provisional staging line for entrants who have not made a run that day to get in line.
For the first 3 Hours each day have 2 or 3 staging lines open that anyone can use.
After 3 hours or some pre set time, designate a lane (lane 3)
ONLY for entrants that have not made a run that day.
This provisional lane may not be perfect but what it could do is come as close as possible to guaranteeing each entrant at least 2 runs (excepting for track delays) without adding any time or cost to the event.
I like all these ideas too
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"Wilmington being new, run with the wind and factor wind speed into the speed."
Probably got to run the other way for the right shut-down run-off area. Just factor in (on the honor system) the headwind when you figure your record.
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Probably got to run the other way for the right shut-down run-off area. Just factor in (on the honor system) the headwind when you figure your record.
Once again Stan's inner child speaks out !!!! :cheers:
Charles
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So yeah, facing the runway with the other runway at your back, which way will we be running?
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"So does that mean you also do the same for the Motorcycle Shootout event. If so that would be 2 events of the 4 that you limit what the rest of the competitors do.
It seems to me that things were normally good at Maxton. If you are going to have more entries than the track can handle, you limit the number of entries. They do a good job of that at Texas. Registration opens at a certain time and when the field is full, there is only stand by left. It seems to work. I think however it is done it will work out fine. Limit the entries to allow the competitors to get some runs, and make the registration fair for all. I'm game. Just me though."
Yea, sure do it for the bike guys too. That would only be fare. i don't see how it would limit "what the rest of the competitiors do" though because it is not like there are 50 cars or bikes that run in the challenge, it would just be 20 or so guys getting to make some fast passes all at once. I like Charles' ideas, especially the ones about extending the event to include thurs. and running longer on sun. If the daylight is there we need to use it on sat. too. Hate to limit the number of entries but if not doing so limits the amount of runs then it has to be done. If we limit the amount of runs then what happens when the top speed guys really don't have a chance to compete because of people cutting line, oil downs, wind, etc.? Thats why it may be polite to let them all make runs at a certain time when the conditions are good. Have two set times that they "CAN" run. If they choose not to run at that time then that is their decision. If they get more than two runs by sitting in line with the rest of us then that is fine too. There is no reason to not give the top speed challenge cars or the throttle nation bike guys a chance to really have a shoot out.
Can we just run for a week straight every two months?
Zach
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Zach, you have valid points. Personally, and I've run the bike shootout the last 5 years, I feel like if I get a time that we are the only ones running, it isn't fair to the guy that drove as far as I did and paid the same entry I did to compete. I could get the perfered time where the wind was favorable, the temps were best. It could start raining right after our runs. Any nimber of issues. I personally keep an eye on the hoour by hour weather and attempt to position myself in line for the most favorable time to run. You take all that away when you start to say there are set times for people to run.
I've only been doing Land Speed since 2007. Roadracer and Dirt Tracker before this. The fewest passes I ever made at Maxton was at the closer. I made 3 total. One Saturday and I didn't get back in line as it was pointless in a 20 mph head wind. I made 2 Sunday.
I'm one that belives you limit to 120 entries. That is a managable field. Look at Texas, it seems to works. I've been spoiled by Maxton and I know it. For me I'm willing to pay higher entry fees with a limited field to get the runs I need. That's just me. I'm not saying I'm right, just have an opinion, and as I said to start, you have valid points. See you in Ohio.
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Raising entry fees until those who can't pay can't play is elitist at best. Be fair -- Raise the cost of membership like private golf clubs do. Then folks know up-front that they are just in the way if they aren't heavy hitters. Same thing for points leaders getting first (or only) chance. Charles' idea about a lane for haven't gotten a first pass yet is a great one. Having one of the vehicles that only gets to run when conditions are marginal, I would agree to give up position for a similar amount of time for the fast movers.
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javajoe79;
I believe that when facing the runway with the other runway and the tower behind your back we will be running from left to right, away from the ILS (instrument landing system) for obvious reasons.
Does anyone know when can we mail a pre-registration for Wilmington?
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We will announce when registration opens, hopefully soon. Keith and I just got back from Wilmington. Many details were worked out...patience's please!!! We will be running from Northeast to Southwest.
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prevailing wind is from the West. Boy now I'm really chomping at the bit for the new info!
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We will announce when registration opens, hopefully soon. Keith and I just got back from Wilmington. Many details were worked out...patience's please!!! We will be running from Northeast to Southwest.
Afternoon sun in the eyes. 8-)
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You can practice for that by making record return runs at Bonneville.
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Or zero to 25 lineup number at El Mirage..... 8-)
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I've found that much harder to do.
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Wow,I thought i would never get here, i kept flunking the visual verification test. I started my recovery from a heart attack followed within three w eeks by three strokes in the fall of last year, when i came out of a fog one of the first things i did was to pick up a copy of Hotrod magazine that had stacked up for three years and read an article about the Maxton Mile. I am surrounded by pictures of myself and Jack Roush in the winners circle at Talledaga and Daytona, pictures of me drag racing in numerous cars and albums of cars i have owned over the years. The Maxton article set my mind to spinning and i asked if i could start driving again, which i did in the parking lot of the local highschool and then to county roads to the interstate. Jumping ahead, i talked with Joe, Keith, and Tonya last spring to ask questions about how to join, register and run at Maxton and ordered a rule book. I started preparing my ss chevy truck to run in a production class and while what i spent is peanuts compared to the special built and modified owners it was still significant. I participated in the Sept. event and had the most exhilarating experience, i was hooked when i found how close to a class record i was. I did not really plan on going back in Oct. though i had it on my mind constantly, and two weeks before the meete my grandson said "PapA why don't you go back to that Maxton Mile and break that record" and i found motel rooms, reprogrammed the computor, and bought new Goodyear formula 11 tires. In my second life the biggest thrill i have ever experienced was making the fourth run on Sunday morning after fighting the wind along with everyone else on Saturday and set a new track record in A/pp. I called Tonya two weeks before Thanksgiving to order another record setting shirt and she asked if i had desided to go to Ohio. She also told me that there was so much interest that it was being considered to limit the entries to 150. The week after Thanksgiving i called and with difficulty reserved two rooms, called Tonya to see if i could pay next years dues and preregister to run. She said that final cost hah not been determined yet and to just wait until after the first of the year.Since then i have contracted for chassis dtno time, to have my truck valve train improved upon, to install electric cutouts and to have an hp tuneup put in my truck, again peanuts to what i realize most of you invest but not to me. Now after all of that , in case there is a huge demand for entries which category do i fall in, the guy that just wants to run his car wide open throttle and not meet tech or am i now a "regular" that chases class records and now continually comes back, or am i in no mans land. Everyday i am consumed with what i can do to increase my speed from 127 mph to 130+ in april at Ohio and still maintain my production status and i would be glad to send my checks Monday morning, where do i stand. One more thing, i could not have felt more welcomed and offered advise and assistance from both the volunteers as well as the other competitors, making a kind of nervous first time experience a relaxed joy. I was at the track at noon and until dark on friday in the rain in Sept. to complete my registration, go through tech inspection and rookie orientation, i was first in line in the prestage line in sept. fourth in line on Saturday in Oct. always with my helmut and jacket on, in order to never possibly hold things. I got two runs in on Saturday and was fourth in line at 6:00 pm after the oildown. I was back at the track at 6:15 am on Sunday in the staging lane and made one run to obtain my track record, i wanted to move up in class and make one more run before starting a ten hour drive home but the prestage line was back to almost the portable toilet on the return road. With respect has it been considered to have a backup printer as that seemed to be a holdup in Oct. Happy Hollidays to all and i really hope to see you in April, Garrell Patterson
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Sounds like you've got it bad Garrell!
Welcome to the group and we look forward to seeing more records and maybe even a trip to the salt. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pete
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Garrell, welcome to the addiction, maybe you need to do an intro thread.... although a lot of it may be here. Tell us about yourself and your plans in that section. Maybe you need to come out to the salt and play... You could easily run in the 130 club at WoS. Of course that will lead to building a dedicated race vehicle and play havoc with your retirement checks and 401K.
I wouldn't worry about not getting a slot to race, sounds like you are on top of it.
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Stainlessi, i have studied the rule book over and over and i have already built several cars in my mind, it would probably still be a production class car because i still have some limitations that would make it difficult to load, tie down, unload etc. It would be a car and i have a year model in mind and know about what the cost would be, but running a truck is challenging and fun. I have a 1998 21,000 mile c5 corvette that with very few performance improvements should run 160 mph+, but it has never seen a raindrop and i kindof would hate to put the rollcage, f.e. system in. Wouldn't a 1986-87 camaro iroc with a well put together, lots of compression, head work, exhaust 305 c.i. be an aerodynamic ball. The 305 will or would put in a d/class, i have lots of other mental builds but it is 2:45 am and this is when i start my two hour exercise/therapy workout.
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Garrell, you are thinking logically. The race vehicles lead a hard life. We are always updating and fixing them. Sometimes we do this in a hurry and the workmanship is not the best. Corrosion is an issue too. Your pristine Corvette might not be the right choice. A car in sound, but not show, condition is best. The Camaro might be a good'un.