Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => LSR General Chat => Topic started by: Moxnix on October 09, 2011, 04:19:31 PM
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After speaking with a member of the Speed Record Club from the UK who was in attendance at WoS, I'm curious to know if racers at Wilmington, Loring, Texas, Mojave and whatever other mile courses might be in the works would be interested in running in timed events under a national and international governing body that has classes per the SCTA format? Race your bike or car on a record against someone in Italy, England or Oz?
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While this is a noble idea the organizers at Texas and Mojave have no interest(to date) to offer a unified rules and record package for their events. Loring and Wilmington( nee Maxon) are close. I see from my reading that there some differences between the two. A major difference is the ability and desire to run for 1.5 miles at Loring. I don't know if this is a possibiliy at Wilmington next year.
DW
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Well, there could be 1 mile and 1.5 mile records accorded by the governing body depending on the length of a specific venue. 1 mile or 1.5 mile records, 1 kilo records to accommodate those who live in metric countries if it fits.
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DLRA just upgraded a tag heuer wireless timing setup,
DLRA use the SCTA rule book
DLRA run on a salt lake
DLRA run the same classes as SCTA , but for two
DLRA recognize SCTA Licenses
DLRA use Miles per hour
Doesn't seem that hard
International governing body politics?
Oh well
G
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So, the system of classes in Oz works for the DLRA. I think I'd better got on the the Brit and see it it's worth pursuing in that direction. With the goal of avoiding international governing body politics.
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Too many variables ... course length/surface/shutdown/altitude ... not to mention certification
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Too many variables ... course length/surface/shutdown/altitude ... not to mention certification
ditto
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Bonneville- 4200ft +/- elevation, El Mirage- 2840 +/-, traction is different, some of the same vehicles run. Mojave Mile- 2791+?- , Loring- 746 +/-, Wilmington- 1077,etc. Pavement offers better traction. Run 1.5 mi. at the long track, along with 1 mi. and 1 kilo. 1 mi. & 1 kilo at the mile tracks. Certification of a record would be according to a "to be" developed criteria. Seems to work for the ECTA. For example, Bill Warner's run at Loring is the fastest sit on motorcycle ever timed, to my knowledge. It's certainly widely known. Point being, would that record have more status over the long run, and as a historical marker, if it was recognized by a national or international body?
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The FIM has certified records in the past that were not run at Bonneville, such as at Daytona, Brooklands, Arpajon, Schleifheim, Cork, Gyon, Frankfurt, and Bergamo. The Frankfurt ones were on the autobahn, I think. There is your answer. Have the track certified for FIM competition. This would work for the bikes.
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The FIM has certified records in the past that were not run at Bonneville, such as at Daytona, Brooklands, Arpajon, Schleifheim, Cork, Gyon, Frankfurt, and Bergamo. The Frankfurt ones were on the autobahn, I think. There is your answer. Have the track certified for FIM competition. This would work for the bikes.
Would also require FIM certification..are you running FIM or willing to pay the added costs?
fIM stands for f...ing Ignorant Morons as far as I am concerned. Stupid Frenchies could not even turn in the paperwork and then blames the racer for not "following up" in time...
Your results may vary..
John
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Chance of getting a mile in Oz is slim, most of our WW2 airstrips have been shortened for light commercial or agricultural use
and very difficult to get use on an active airfield
but there are several that could get a 1km course happening , Insurance being the biggest problem, one i have been trying to get something happening on requires a $20mil policy , costing at least $7k, sort of hard to get the ball rolling with that sort of startup cost before factoring in other expenses
If anyone has tips or ideas i'm all ears :-)
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Oh and i am wondering do the SCTA realy want to get involved in these mile events when there more ECTA territory at the moment
Just seems the ECTA has the experiance in this area ???
Any UK guys here want to comment about there setups and regulations and how they compare to current SCTA, ECTA,AMA or FIM regs ?
There is a good chance at least on the bike side of things that we could get a better deal with insurance involving MA (motorcycling Australia), and CAMs for the cars, but they talk to each other as often as FIA and FIM :-( ...
And i'm not as bias as John about the FIM/FIA but still cautious
EG at the cook shootout we attended the FIA dinner and while talking to the Aussie rep , he commented "we should do this sort of thing (landracing) in Australia , my reply... we do... , Oh, for how long.....21 years... :roll:
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Just to throw another wrench in the works ... BNI/USFRA/AMA/FIM on the salt flats time an entire mile not just 132 ft as the mile/mile-half do.
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Hey, John N.....the FIM rep. that lost your paper work was not from France......Also to all of you that keep noting that FIM is French....note that the FIM main office is in Geneva, Switzerland.....Does that make them any better??.....not really....................................................
PS. Last time I checked most of the FIM top people were not French
but mainly from Latino countries....Hey, but it is great fun to pick on the French....so keep it up..................................................................
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French or Swiss either way the FIM is a joke, the cars get one hour turn around and the bikes get two?
Time for a change... :evil:
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Oh, I don't necessarily foresee see the SCTA getting involved as a governing body, though some of their members might want to race on pavement once in awhile. ECTA rules are pretty close. Hope to find out what the Brits use for rules and those people on the Continent. The (in)famous FIM rep comes from the French speaking area of Switzerland. Out at the timing tower during Shootout, an FIA board member from the same area, but a Swiss-German speaker met him for the first time, though they've both dealt with communication between their respective organizations over the years and live about ten miles apart.
Perhaps this is all a few years too soon to discuss.
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When we ran the LSA in the early 90s we used the current FIA records, had FIA reps on board and they issued their cert and LSA provided a cert. of performance with the header
Bonneville International
Certificate of Performance
The same timing information as the FIA Certs. was provided to the entrant after certification.
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What was the advantage to having a duplication of effort from two different organizations?
Pete
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Only that it was a LSA event as well, This was done at at a world finals meet and we had to shuffle the course for two way runs as well to do it.
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If we all take a deep breath ....... the topic is about a new World Record format and some form of International Organisation. There is no need to involve the FIA or the FIM. If track elevation differences are a worry then perhaps this programme would not be for you. Certification would need to be standardised, but if 'trusted' tech inspectors from all countries involved are trained by the acknowledged time served experts (SCTA), then there should not be arguments over eligibility of the US style of classes.
The SCTA has used El Mirage, which is the 1.3 mile dirt example of the type of event that Max and I got into discussion about. The aim would be to have events that could be run in most countries of the world, so that this form of speed record breaking becomes an inclusive International sport with a true World Record list. The late John Beckett and I kicked some ideas around, but we never got to a stage of going public.
Some may want to be involved and others may say ..... this is 'not for me' I just like to race at the current venue(s) for local speed records.
The ECTA led the way on concrete with a one mile distance and others have followed the format maximising what distance they have on asphalt or concrete - hence Texas, Loring and Mojave in the USA. Here in the UK we have the UK Land Speed Racing Association who have run their 'Suffolk' mile event for bikes. I would not know if these existing organisations would facilitate classes for machinery that could be created anywhere in the world, they just happen to have events that exist at the time the idea was floated.
Imagine an event, being held in Russia on one of their bomber airfields, and a European built street roadster sets the fastest speed ever in B/BSTR and another racer from Croatia on a French built bike sets their record in APS-BF-1350. Thousands of racers around the World can applaud these World Records and a few can then attempt to raise them higher on a track of their choosing in their own country.
Malcolm
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I believe the Russians do have a mile event already ,
biggest advantage i see of a fully international standards is being able to travel and be involved, and have a better chance of sponsership to help , can you picture a tri nation or multi national series with containers of bikes/cars shipping from one point to the next
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Interesting idea, but to play devil's advocate, there will inevitably be one or a few 1-mile venues that offer the best conditions. Over a long period, most of the records would be set at that location. What if Texas ran in the opposite direction in May? Consistent 15-20 mph tailwinds would undercut any consistency in rules and officiating.
One of the nice things about Bonneville is that everyone deals with the same environment, good or bad. To standardize across tracks or differing smoothness, flatness, air density, prevailing winds, etc, would be a difficult task.
Then there's the displacement and fuel check...
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Dean, isn't the word "best" a superlative (in this instance)? That is, there is only one (anything) that is best. In that case -- how could there be "...one or a few..."?
Sorry, but I, the comma cop, have been out of the office recently and didn't have much time for being pernickety. Thanks for offering me the opportunity to be so.
Yes, we do intend to go to Maxton at the end of this month, for, if nothing else, the socializing and good-bye-ness of it all. C U there?
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To split hairs, I guess I'm using 'best' in a loose way, considering the variability of conditions from day to day. The best venue in March may not be the best venue in October. So maybe 2 venues would tie, and thus neither would be 'best'.
See you at Maxton, you grammar Nazi :-D
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By the way, you do not own a ZX14R, so change your profile description, you imprecise bastage!!!! :-D :cheers:
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Seems there are only about 4 areas in the world that are suitable for all out LSR speeds. Bonneville, Australia, Blackrock and the place that the Noble gang want to run in Africa or where ever it is.The two salt flats are the best we have for wheel driven vehicles the others OK for thrust vehicles.
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Glen --- dont forget there is a salt flat in South America too ...
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would you tow to it. It's high and crappy access roads.
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Thanks for your post, Malcom. Certainly the FIA-FIM need not be involved. An "international land speed racing authority" needs only an agreed "template" for vehicles and racers to adhere to, with scrutiny before and after a run, much like the FIA/FIM duties at the Shootout, but possibly like the busy tech line and/or impound on the salt. I'll note (that) the Speed Record Club in the UK has an international membership with interest in air, land, water speed record factions. Certainly there is a lot of overlap in NA regarding interest across speed records venues.
As to the "why do this," I'll argue that it becomes somewhat of a world competition, a la the Olympics. Top speed in a class is a gold medal. Who's the gold medal holder for the world? . . . . It's hard to beat Bonneville as an event. But as the economy shifts, the cost and difficulty of travel increases, inflation with effective loss of purchasing power, well, it appears a world wide activity, that's happening anyway, would allow kilo/mile/1.5 mile participants to play at the big casino table with racers on the other side of the world.
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Max it was good that you found time from the audio duties at WoS to chat about this topic.
Elevation of courses will always be a problem but just looking at outright records they went from sea level (Pendine & Daytona/Ormond) to Bonneville, Black Rock and soon perhaps South Africa and no one used the height of each as an excuse, even in the piston engined days.
The International cycling and motorcycling record rules have a tail wind maximum speed to remove the prevailing wind advantage - although most airfield are aligned to avoid cross winds I believe (comments from those who fly?).
Some will always want to attend different tracks (collecting hats as they progress) but not having to travel across continents can lead to greater participation.
Any information on the Russian event, anyone? And we could accept Ice courses for those who play on that surface.
Malcolm
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Too many variables ... course length/surface/shutdown/altitude ... not to mention certification
Really???????????? The only variable that should be listed is you. You get to pick your poison and run. The rules should be the constant, have you ever read the international rules? IN the rules it states why the meaning of a standing start, flying mile etc. Like I said you pick your poison on where to run.
Jon
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Dean:
Touchy ( :roll:)
Jon
PS Done!
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Sounds like a bunch of PC, Kumbaya, one world BS. I'll settle for the SCTA and other domestic groups thank you. :-D
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So Tman. You run at El Mirage; Texas; Wilmington; Loring; Mojave. Completing a pass at each which of the speeds that you achieve is the "best" (perhaps a Worlds best) ......... and why?
I guess you support "The World Series". LOL
Malcolm
Derby, England
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Jon:
Glass houses :-D
Dean
(PS - there is no such thing as a Production ZX15)
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All NHRA records have not been set at the same venue. They differ in climate and altitude.
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So Tman. You run at El Mirage; Texas; Wilmington; Loring; Mojave. Completing a pass at each which of the speeds that you achieve is the "best" (perhaps a Worlds best) ......... and why?
I guess you support "The World Series". LOL
Malcolm
Derby, England
Yes, on the series, I hear Iceland is a hotbed for baseball lately tho :roll:
Just like the French and Swiss like to lay claim to International governing bodies. We can lay claim to World records as well. :cheers:
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Dean:
PM sent -- to get this hijack over with for now.
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mox...as the economy changes or not...lets compare apples to apples at least...
its gotten to the point that folks get a gps speed and claim "new world record"....
used to be the world record distance was a kilo or a mile, meaning the timing trap is a kilo
or a mile......twice....
so at bonneville or any FIM venue to set a record you get up to speed THEN maintain it for a 5280 ft.....twice....
ie folks are comparing 1mile records and speeds to what FIM venues and SCTA racers speeds.....
the 1 mile and 1.5mile venues the timing trap is 132 ft a record is one time........to set FIM SCTA (bonn) you
maintain your speed for 40 TIMES the distance.......then again 40 times the distance......
a bonneville or FIM record speed maintained is equivalent of 80 runs on the 1 and or 1.5 mile venues....
much different...
at least have a standard for the distance, degree of grade (level), timing equip standard....class spec enforcement...
forget about climate and altitude and such...go to your nearest venue that has at least above standards....climate density altitude etc changes
at each venue by the minute......
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http://www.uklandspeedracingassociation.co.uk/index.html
Back soon, off to an appt.
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Or if you have a Ford Diesel you just call EVERY run a World Record! :-D
mox...as the economy changes or not...lets compare apples to apples at least...
its gotten to the point that folks get a gps speed and claim "new world record"....
used to be the world record distance was a kilo or a mile, meaning the timing trap is a kilo
or a mile......twice....
so at bonneville or any FIM venue to set a record you get up to speed THEN maintain it for a 5280 ft.....twice....
ie folks are comparing 1mile records and speeds to what FIM venues and SCTA racers speeds.....
the 1 mile and 1.5mile venues the timing trap is 132 ft a record is one time........to set FIM SCTA (bonn) you
maintain your speed for 40 TIMES the distance.......then again 40 times the distance......
a bonneville or FIM record speed maintained is equivalent of 80 runs on the 1 and or 1.5 mile venues....
much different...
at least have a standard for the distance, degree of grade (level), timing equip standard....class spec enforcement...
forget about climate and altitude and such...go to your nearest venue that has at least above standards....climate density altitude etc changes
at each venue by the minute......
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Tman, the point of asking about developing an organization to set a criteria for racing on airstrips is to give participants a chance to avoid just what you mentioned, a record claimed by a corporation with no oversight or authority. LSR takes place on salt, dry lakes, playas like Black Rock, and airports. Having an "authority" to oversee airport LSR raises the level above small club racing. Might be nice to know what the mile promoters think, but I'd add the successful rules of the ECTA and their experience with them into the conversation.
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...with respect to "successful rules of the ECTA".....i hope your not referring to the
lack of things like engine measurement.....
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Going back a few years ago the BudWeiser rocket was run at Muroc and timed with radar. As I recall it was questionable at that time as it took some time to get the speeds etc. It is still questioned by some.
Each venue has it's own records, LSR is 2 runs in opposite ways with a one or two hour turn around. Most of these have been at Bonneville because of the salt being the best surface for wheel driven vehicles to run on.
Black Rock,El Mirage and Muroc are dirt with each having different lengths and black rock with two way runs and best for jet cars.
Airports 1 mile or 1-1/2 mile one direction only for each venue.
It going to be hard to supervise with each being different. It's going to take a lot to make a new LSA or what ever it's called and it won't happen over night.
I think Jack Dolan is the owner of LSA now.
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Tman, the point of asking about developing an organization to set a criteria for racing on airstrips is to give participants a chance to avoid just what you mentioned, a record claimed by a corporation with no oversight or authority. LSR takes place on salt, dry lakes, playas like Black Rock, and airports. Having an "authority" to oversee airport LSR raises the level above small club racing. Might be nice to know what the mile promoters think, but I'd add the successful rules of the ECTA and their experience with them into the conversation.
I just enjoy having a little fun with topics that get panties in a bunch. Meet me and you will know, no worries Max. :wink:
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Well, Joe, that's what separates the wheat from the chaff, measuring the engine for proper class after a record. Otherwise, it's a t-shirt or hat event to a fair amount of onlookers not involved. LSR, but with a stigma. The question is, will an international LSR organization be of any value for the participants who want to do back up runs and impound.
And, being selfish, I'd like to drag my knuckles to a few of these events, with Slim's blessing, to do audio webcasting. Landracing having an international following, might be more fun to see records set and/or broken on a world wide basis.
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Moxnix,
I think your idea would bring broader audience base to the sport, but the implementation of such a task would be monumental.
Instead of what ifs, and generalities, please give us a specific plan to think about.
This would only be for the mile/kilo? Why not separate categories, for the different venues, such as 1 mile paved, 1 mile dirt, 1.5 miles, paved, 1.5 miles dirt, 3 miles salt, etc.? If not, the 'fastest' XXO/BVGCC is simply the fastest speed ever ran by run, no matter the venue?
What's your idea for class standardization? All participants agree to build the car to the 'strictest' set of rules currently being used? I mean, for example if SCTA has the strictest rules, everyone worldwide follows them, irregardless of the venue they are running?
Where are the extra fees going to come from to fund the record keeping and such? Would I mail my $400 pre-entry to the SCTA, and $100 to this 'worldwide' organization?
I'm not saying it's not a cool idea, but there are lots of unanswered questions, that need to be answered before a serious discussion can be had.
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I agree with Joe that comparing 2 run average mile speeds with short timing trap speeds is apples to oranges and see no need to group them under one banner
but speeds set under EG: World Mile Racers would be WMR records and to some degree comparable from track to track , but even that would over time become well known enough to say that Elvington is consistantly 7 mph slower than Texas , just as drag racers in Cali know Sac is faster than Infineon ... and if you want to seriously reset a WMR record you would go to Texas...
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Or if you have a Ford Diesel you just call EVERY run a World Record! :-D
OUCH!!!!
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Has anyone seen this?
http://www.usacracing.com/
They have a Land Speed link that says coming soon. Anyone know what that is all about?
Tom G.
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It would be a huge undertaking to renew the LSA OR START A NEW ONE. IN THE PAST WHEN LSA WAS STILL ALIVE scta/bni used the same categories as FIA. For several reasons it failed to last and many of us were sorry to see it go. Part of the problem was working it in on a regular meet such as the world finals as all record runs had to be held for the vehicles during the turn around for returns up to 4 hours. It limited the number of vehicles and if there was a incident others could loose their chance to back it up.
There are many things to think about as it should be a separate meet like Cooks shoot out. He already has the FIA support under control and the certified timers to handle it.
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The USAC rep at the Shootout was there to represent the FIA with the streamliners. For trivia people, he was David Patrali whose father, Joe, rode a streamlined knucklehead to a notable record at Daytona in 1937.
First, since Bonneville is well covered by all the current meets held there, this thread is just about LSR for kilo, mile & mile.5 on pavement. If the SCTA went into handling mile runs, I'd like that. Since this is an inquiry into IF it's possible to establish an international pavement LSR series and may go nowhere, I'll give it a year or two to either work or go upside down. I haven't turned up my LSA document but if the format was adapted only to pavement LSR events, it may give a leg up to going international.
Just talking through my hat, now, but if someone did a run in a vehicle that meets a particular SCTA class at, say, Mojave, put the vehicle into an impound area, then backed it up in the same direction when their place in line comes around again, back to impound for a measurement, is that an acceptable way to compete? Keeping things as familiar and simple as possible?
I can't speak for Malcom, but he might chip in with his evaluation of whether the Brits would be interested in the same format.
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"...a record claimed by a corporation with no oversight or authority."...
Do you really believe that the establishment of an "authority" to oversee these events will actualy do away with claims as mentioned in the quote above?
DW
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Without reading all the posts again -- I'll ask if anyone in this discussion has mentioned that speeds could be listed a la FIA(M) -- with both standing start speeds and flying start speeds. That style of timing could well allow "record" keeping on both short/paved and long/natural surface venues.
Maybe -- the many venues can't be compared exactly, and therefore the records won't be comparable, either. Accept that - and then you don't need to get into the "which venue has the best advantages?" question.
The "Governing Body" could still set parameters that CAN be identical from one track to another, such as standing start tracks having a timed section of identical length and defined length of run-up. That'd give some repeatability at any one track. The "Body" could mandate the timing parameters -- standardised accuracy, for instance, and required survey for length of the track and the timed stretch (that is, a register surveyor sets the marks each and every time there's an event instead of using the same marks over and over for a year or two at a time).
The "Body" could include in the various rules that this record was set and the engine size measured, and that record was set without a following measurement. And so on through all of the items that might not be 100% the same here, there, and everywhere.
The results would be a huge number of records that aren't directly comparable from one place to another, but at least would be fair from one event to another. And since many items WILL be defined and ruled/guaranteed by the "Body" -- there'd be at least some legitimacy in all of the records.
Over and out -- bedtime in Skandia.
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"...a record claimed by a corporation with no oversight or authority."...
Do you really believe that the establishment of an "authority" to oversee these events will actualy do away with claims as mentioned in the quote above?
DW
Nope. The German's have the expression, Nur fur Kenner": only for those who know.
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Only for connoisseurs? I think anyone that race in this sport, whether on the slat, asphalt or dirt should be considered a connoisseur of speed or just plain crazy. Tony
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Maybe both.
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I believe the Russians do have a mile event already
Yes they do, the Moscow Unlimited 500. I believe it is run 3 times a year. At the fall meet the fastest "Moto" class was a BMW S1krr, 320.00 km/h Safety equipment, none. and I do believe they run the mile as a drag race, 2 vehicles at once.
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Some will say that the International governing bodies can truly call their record speeds as "World" records because they have representation in most of the countries of this world. FIA represented by ACCUS/USAC and FIM by the AMA - hence the shoout out works.
My guess is that the SCTA would not move from California let alone set up a 'division' across the pond to the mother country. Their rules are used in Australia however and I was told the Aussie tech officials have been to the US meets for training.
Given time we should be able to get Keith or Joe or Mike or others to give their opinions as owners/operators of the 'mile' event.
The International mile or kilo records are either timed from a standing start to the end trap at flying speed (or for outright speed as a flying start and finish) with speed for two directions from the averages of the two times.
There is no likelihood of comparing apples with oranges, I just think the oranges camp may feel that they would like International recognition for the 'monster mile' format. Just tell Max and me that we are wrong and we will put forward a case for it!
Malcolm
Do not get me started on some of the Guinness records or other claims for world speeds!
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"... other claims for world speeds!"
Such as those found in the signature of some forum members?
DW
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Lucky for us, most of their "signatures" are longer than their messages.
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"...a record claimed by a corporation with no oversight or authority."...
Do you really believe that the establishment of an "authority" to oversee these events will actualy do away with claims as mentioned in the quote above?
DW
Sure, just like the claim Dodge makes about what separates their Ram truck from the others - the "legendary hemi engine". I recall they built the last hemi a half century ago when my memory still worked. You can't regulate what lying advertisers will do, it's in their job description, but we shouldn't let that affect a discussion about something real like the current topic.
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My guess is that the SCTA would not move from California let alone set up a 'division' across the pond to the mother country. Their rules are used in Australia however and I was told the Aussie tech officials have been to the US meets for training.
Training?
Nobody told me I would be doing training
G
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The lesson plan is posted on the wall within the White Goose Bar.
DW
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I see. Now I understand what Wayno was talking about :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
G
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Ah, and a special category for thrust vehicles?
Not propellers though.
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Why not propellers? ... not that much different from thrust power ... both are propelled by forced air ... What about the rocket sled?
631.94 mph- Rocket sled Holloman Air Force Base (USA) 10 December 1954 Manned by John Stapp. Fastest manned rocket-sled. Fastest manned rail vehicle. Fastest manned open-cockpit vehicle
6,117.39 mph- Rocket sled Holloman Air Force Base (USA) October 1982 Unmanned. It blasted a 25-pound payload to a speed of 6119 mph.
there is your fastest land speed vehicle ...
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I think the point in this thread and the other one is that it has to be a two average, FIA approved. How does your 6100 MPH record fit in here?
DW
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Well, maybe if you measured the speed that the sled was moved from the far end back to the point of beginning and averaged that with the 6100 mph -- maybe that'd qualify for a two-way run :roll:
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For the miles, kilos and one point five liles, perhaps just a registry of top speed in a given class, if the hosting club or promoter has certified timing equipment. It's also possible to have entrants who want to be in the registry make two runs in the same direction for a record. Then it becomes a matter of measuring engine size for a new record, or not.
Outside Bonneville, Oz and the lakes, people are not used to having engines measured. The backup run is probably easier to "sell" than a teardown, which makes it a registry of top speeds at given venues rather than recognized "world" records.
Easier to maintain a registry of top speeds than re-invent the wheel. If one track is consistently faster than another, then the fastest run at a given track in a given class would be recorded in the registry, send racer a certificate to that effect, and whatever else that may be considered.
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"If one track is consistently faster than another, then the fastest run at a given track in a given class would be recorded in the registry,..."
Sounds like the record list in the SCTA rulebook.
Good luck with a certification process at venues other than Bonneville and El Mirage. But, I'm an honest guy.
DW
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I seemingly use too much "intellectual flexibility" for my own good. A registry of top speeds at any track would be a top speed for that track. I don't think a lot of our British cousins would take the great circle route around the States unless it's in conjunction with a race at Bonneville.
A recorded one way speed in a registry wouldn't necessarily be a bona fide record, just an historical footnote w/ a cert. to that effect.
My brother in law has two K boat record certificates from the FINautique based in Monaco from 35 years ago. Hand painted pictures of the boats and calligraphy all wrapped in a fancy scrolled edge. Snooty bunch over in the high rent district, but the framed record is very nice to look at.
Sell the sizzle, not the steak.
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If you're not going to measure the engines, what's the point? :?
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That single point is the crux of the problem, of the issue, of the challenge. It's probably too spendy to bring it past my typing on this thread.
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Hello.
My name is Alexander. I am from Russia.
I am writing here, because he asked to write about this event, Mr. OZBooster.
3 years ago we started to organize races at 1 mile. On the territory of Dmitrovsky auto research center.
The event is called Moscow Unlim 500+
Performed seven stages.
Our team is the first time participated in these competitions in May (Turbo Hayabusa). In the autumn we were unable to attend, since the first day was rain, and the second time, when the organizers moved the competition, our motorcycle pilot could not fly to the competition. Since living on the other end of the country.
Competitions are held mostly in cars. In the autumn were very powerful instances of GTR (greater than 1000 h.p.) and Lambo.
The following events are planned in mid-May.
Here, you can see videos, photos and results.
http://www.moscowunlim.ru/
http://dragtimes.info/
This is the forum of the event.
http://dragtimes.info/forum/
In the autumn the participants wanted to come on motorcycles from other countries, but nobody came.
Best regards, Alexander.
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Welcome, Alexander. I believe you're the first person from Russia to register on this Forum, and as the guy that runs the Forum and the website -- I'd like to make sure you can take the time now and then to let us know about land speed racing in your country. We look forward to hearing more from you soon.
Best regards --
Jon (also known as Seldom Seen Slim)
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Здравствуйте Alexander.
We can search YouTube for "Moscow Unlim 500 English" to enjoy learning about your venues with subtitles. Unlimited 500 is for cars with 500 hp and up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdCpjhALmsU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHtKAYn1QDM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6oDzGeMZME
It's relative to the mile races we have here, except only one car goes down the track at a time in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov81RG7jxnI&feature=related
I found my copy of the first 8 pages of World Land Speed Records Federation "Operating Procedures and General Running Regulations." When I've finished reading them again, I'll see if there is anything to put here regarding forming a true world organization.
Thanks for posting, Alexander. You get many very nice cars competing. People may have something to say here about safety equipment, helmets and driving suits.
Maybe we need to take up a collection to send Tony over with a camera for more Avatar photos.
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Engine measurement without a strip down may be possible for most entrants using the instruments which can reach through the spark plug position or measure volume displaced. If you want an official record badly enough then an entrant would accept a strip down to measure. Have we reached the stage that this is the only stumbling block? Malcolm UK
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The problem, as I see it, with a complete tear down in the mile events is time. Mile events are weekend events with hard-in-fast start and stop times. (We are at the mercy of the folks who really own the track) I can see averaging two runs, but what do you do when a first pass qualifying run is set on Sunday afternoon at 4 pm? Where is the time for the second run and tear down? If you compress the event to "only qualifying" runs can be done on Saturday, then I see foresee a major safety risk. Instead of doing a shake down run or two, a lot of guys, because of time, will go "all out" on their first run.
Of course we could hold a mile event using the same setup as Bonneville (two run average and engine tear downs), if Stan would donate enough money to the ECTA to purchase the land and build a dedicated track. :-D :-D :-D
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Time is a red herring. A complete teardown would be very unusual. In most cases the removing of one cylinder head so displacement can be measured is adequate. The rules should be written such that other internal parts shouldn't have to be checked ie: the requirement for stock parts makes tech a much more difficult endeavor. Lots of smaller courses use a single run to set a record. Bonneville is the exception rather than the rule.
Lots of oval tracks run evening events with tear downs at the end of the event. It's then up to the competitor to bundle things back together. If he doesn't accept the teardown he doesn't get the win and often forfeits either some or all of his points. It's a simple operation to seal an engine after a record performance and then do the measuring at the end of the meet. Many organizations require holes for seals to be drilled before a competitor ever runs.
The honor system should work but unfortunately there are always individuals who lack honor and therefore cheat both themselves and the rest of the competitors to get a little mantle decoration.
Pete
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>>>WLSRF Operating Regulations, Nov. 2001, Issue 1
>>>Section 1.08 Final Examination
>>>Immediately after the completion of a record breaking run the vehicle must be taken to the designated impound area / scrutineering bay / parc ferme to be inspected by an appointed official. It is permitted to allow access for publicity and press photographs to be taken and interviews of the driver/rider. No work is permitted on the vehicle when in impound unless directed by an event Official. Within 1 hour of reaching impound the technical official(s) will confirm compliance or otherwise with class regulations, engine capacity (displacement) limits and technical requirements. The vehicle owners may be required to remove cylinder head(s) for engine capacity (displacement) verification. Photographic record of the vehicle may be required for forwarding to WLSRF.
That's how it is addressed by WLSRF rules.
As to whether or not this will translate into an international weekend format is the question. But without sizing the motors after a race . . . . .
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"WLSRF" - what is this? Is this like the LSA?
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World Land Speed Record Federation
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Max
How widely have these ten year old rules been circulated? Do you think many US racers have seen them.
I think I know the author.
Malcolm
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You do. PM me your address and I'll mail a copy of the car rules, as that's all I have.
My faith in our British cousins as efficient in the matter of administering racing activities gives me hope that perhaps a governing body will emerge to bring the airstrip (or in the case of the Russians, highway) timing events under a single umbrella.
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New video from Moscow Unlim 500 + May 2011.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V49Do-zr0DU&feature=youtu.be&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSYhjvrMsck&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eovwznKtBA&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHMiD0RuMiI&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2tJeYwiLMM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9rQjEUYxo&feature=youtu.be
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A new record of Russia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGQMihmbFQ4&feature=youtu.be
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Spasiba, Pasis!
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Another video, you can see here:
http://www.gsxrclub.ru/index.php?topic=38434.0
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I am not at all good with Russian and now there is an event in Finland too. Growing number of countries hosting 1 milers. Malcolm