Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: entropy on September 26, 2011, 11:44:50 AM
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I just did my 1st event, WOS on a Suzuki a couple weeks ago, and now i am facing the salt corrosion issues my salty buddies advised me of.
I removed the wiring harness with all sensors, relays, batteries, subsystem controllers, etc yesterday and now am looking for a treatment to minimize salt related corrosion.
In cogitating on this problem, I think of my successful treatment of 2 cells phones dropped into dirty water filled gutters by my wife & daughter.
We removed the cell battery, repeatedly dunked the phones in distilled water, then immediately dunked them in high % alcohol to pull out the water. After air drying both phones worked fine.
Could this also be done with motorcycle electrical components?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Karl
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I have heard of similar treatments being used to save amateur radio gear soaked by salt water during hurricanes.
You just need to be absolutely sure that they are completely dry before you power them back up.
When you have finished the dunking processes and thoroughly air dried, a final baking in a heated oven can get the final traces of moisture out.
At our electronics shop we had a ventilated oven that would bake components at about 150 degrees that we could use for tasks like that, you could build a similar home built oven by using a couple incandescent light bulbs to warm the interior of a large box that had entry holes in the bottom and top so there was a continuous flow of air through the box. This will ensure the humidity of the air flow stays very low and pulls any moisture cooked out of the components out of the box with the air flow.
Some electrical varnishes might not like long exposure to high proof alcohol so I would make that step as brief as you can prudently make it.
Larry
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Karl;
I have a product called 12/34. It is a 14 OZ. spray can, and is the most amazing product I have ever used in my shop. It removes moisture, prevents rust, penetrates and lubricates, hence the name 12/34. More importantly, when applied to electrical and electronic equipment, it protects all circuits, contacts and switches. It will not interfere with the circuits or operations of the equipment.
It is also harmless to paint, plastics, rubber or fabrics. It dries wet ignitions and contains no silicon.
It costs $14 per can, so it's not cheap. But if you look at per cost application, you're looking at 1 or 2 cents per use.
So sure am I of this products capabilities, I will not only refund your $14, I will pay your return shipping if not satisfied. I will also donate a portion of each can sold to support Landracing.com.
John
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John & Larry,
Thanks much for the rapid reponses.
With your info i will do a test:
1. repeated dunking in large volume distilled water, remove most salt
maybe do it in 2 stages, 2nd bucket of cleaner water for 2nd set of dunks.
2. dunk in hi% alcohol, remove most water
Q: denatured alcohol @ $17/gal or VP M-1 race alcohol @ $5/gal???
3. heat to 130-150F for 8? hours
4. treat with 12/34
John, could you please send me a link to yr shop so I can get a few cans??
I am new to Bonneville, but one wicked 180mph tail wagging experience won't stop me from going back in 2012 for 2 events!
Karl
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Karl, which 2 events??
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Karl;
You can email me @ Redhunter1936@aol.com.
Thanks,
John
Link to my shop is www.CuttingEdgeMetalSpecialties.com.
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Karl, which 2 events??
Fred,
After talking w/you and Ryan, I was thinking of Speedweek & WOS.
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I dont think either of us will be going to SW 2012.
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It's the old story where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Going the extra mile to seal EVERYTHING in advance of use is worth the effort.
The damage from corrosion is pretty quick. By the time you get home a lot of damage is done, and can't be undone.
Water works it's way into places that you can't get it back out. I have seen relays with clear plastic housings that resisted every effort to remove the water. 3 days in a 150 oven and it still had fog inside.
Water and salt will migrate a long way up stranded wires. Remove the insulation and you will find corrosion much further than you thought. Ask the guys that repair the 18 miles of cable from Bonneville timing.
Good luck.
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4. treat with 12/34
John, could you please send me a link to yr shop so I can get a few cans??
http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/1234.html
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4. treat with 12/34
John, could you please send me a link to yr shop so I can get a few cans??
http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/1234.html
James, thanks for the note, :cheers:
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If you are looking in the US for 12/34, it is called 769,same product number,37341.
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One of the other qualities of 12/34 is it is not flammable, so you can't use it to inflate tires! (See "WD-40 Tire Inflation" on You Tube).
I believe Jetlube Canada is the Canadian distributor for 12/34.
John
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John & Larry,
2. dunk in hi% alcohol, remove most water
Q: denatured alcohol @ $17/gal or VP M-1 race alcohol @ $5/gal???
Remember denatured alcohol is generally ethanol with something not palatable/poisonous in it to prevent people from drinking it. May have solvent properties different from pure alcohol you should test for. Grain alcohol is 95% (rest mostly being water I think) is available or used to be in some liquor stores. "pure" lab grade alcohol which is really what you want is more difficult to come by. Lab supply houses but the feds are in the act for alcohol tax etc and may require special license etc.
Race alcohol is methanol, may have different solvent properties and is poisonous. 10 cc can make you go blind, more can kill you. and can be absorbed some through the skin so be careful handling it. ( ie don't dip your parts with an un protected hand)
I have been using some stuff called Salt Away from local boat store. Seems to work but you do have to get after it early as noted above.
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I didn't know what the previous posts were referring to. I have used Jet Lube for years. It is different than WD-4- in that it is a lubricant and a moisture displacer. I get mine from Reliable Distributing in Montana at [406] 259-4786. Talk to Terry, he's the he's the owner/former Alcohol dragster driver. Very knowledgable on lubrication products. [and British M/C stuff].
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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From the salt mines of Australia: http://go-inox-green.com/
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I've used ultrasonic cleaners on just about everything from electronics to gears. With the correct solution, I'm sure it would clean salt out of almost anything.
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If you are looking in the US for 12/34, it is called 769,same product number,37341.
Is it the same, they have both the 12/34 and the 769 on the webpage? With different part number.
http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/1234.html
http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/769.html
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The corrosion gremlins strike at the most inconvenient times. Everything seems OK and a person thinks all salt corrosion problems are solved, and then things go wrong. Often this happens during a meet when it is difficult to diagnose the problems. It is a good idea to take an extra set of electrical and ignition parts with you to the salt. I take the stock parts I removed when I upgraded to racing components, including an extra wiring harness. This make troubleshooting easy. Simply substitute parts until the problem goes away.
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Explain how you are going to remove the salt from this?
(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10294.0;attach=28943;image)
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Dean, you obviously didn't use dielectric grease :mrgreen:
Mike
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You guys are providing some very useful info.
Thanks a million!
Karl
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On Graingers web site they do list it with the same part number.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/JETLUBE-LubricantPenetrant-5CHT9?Pid=search
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JamesJ;
I'm a land speed racer, and have a metal fabrication shop. I am also the high performance distributor for Armite Lubricants, the maker of 12/34. As I mentioned in an earlier blog, Jetlube Canada is the Canadian distributor for Armite Lubricants and 12/34. The lubricant mentioned in the Grainger catalogue is not 12/34 and is a 12 OZ can. 12/34 is a 14 OZ. can, and if anyone is interested, I will be more then happy to be price competitive with the other stuff. While I don't expect all land speed racers to be loyal and helpful to one another, although I try to be, I would think land speed racers would be loyal to this website. As I mentioned earlier, any sales of 12/34 through Landracing.com will result in my donating a portion of sales to this website. Will Grainger do the same?
John
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John -
Thanks for your reply and the explanation of your relationship to the 12/34 product. I'll say this again to all -- you, of course, and the many folks that keep an eye on landracing.com and The Forum to attempt to prevent commercials from interfering with our important stuff -- racing.
I don't object to your comments about selling the 12/34 since you aren't blatantly advertising, since you offer a "competitive" price, and because you offer to send a portion of any sales generated through this forum to landracing.com. Yes, you're kind of on the edge of what's okay and what's not - such that if you wanted to seriously hawk your wares I'd ask you to pay some $$ and in return get some dedicated advertising.
But -- you ain't, so I won't. Thanks for your support and help about this stuff.
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Jon;
I'm still trying to get my financial feet back under me after my first Speedweek. If I can just get a few Land Speed Racers to see how great this product is, I will be more than happy to advertise with you. Since I got into Land Speed Racing, and decided to build my own roadster, I can't tell you how much this site has helped me, and I have met some great people.
John
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An earlier post said that the 12/34 and the 769 were the same, I did not think so but some places list the same part number, If I cant get the 12/34 here in town I may see about getting some from you to try out, I currently use Gibbs but this seems to be a bit different. Another good product to have. Thanks,
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The best advice noone here takes is not to go to Bonneville.......Well I tried.................See you all in a week if your going...JD
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well it seems that jww36 and his rec on Armite 12/34 is on the money.
After getting my evil handling Busa back from WOS, i pulled it down to a motor roller to take to Mackie in LA for frame alignment checking.
(turned out the swingarm was 3/8" bent to left)
Hosed the motor roller thoroughly with water, then sprayed it liberally with 12/34.
Then LIBERALLY sprayed all the wiring & electrical components with 12/34 paying particular attention to connectors & sleeves.
2.5 mo later no trace of corrosion whatsoever, none. :cheers:
Shoulda sprayed my tools & the fittings in my trailer... :-o
Karl
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Can I get a barrel of it? I'm thinking:
1.) Rinse bike (or car) thoroughly with water, preferably at Miller Raceway where they have a "firehose" size wash station.
2.) Remove tires and seat.
3.) Immerse entire vehicle in 1234
4.) Blow dry
Seems like that should do it.
Tom
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bahahahahahahahahahhaa, yup, that would do it.
I was "lucky" after leaving WOS in that we ran into a deluge that lasted for a couple hours. Outside of car & trailer got drenched.
Tom,
you are from N.S.?
You do Loring?
Karl
Can I get a barrel of it? I'm thinking:
1.) Rinse bike (or car) thoroughly with water, preferably at Miller Raceway where they have a "firehose" size wash station.
2.) Remove tires and seat.
3.) Immerse entire vehicle in 1234
4.) Blow dry
Seems like that should do it.
Tom
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Long ago, Japan Air Lines belly flopped one of their Boeing 707s into the (salt water) bay while trying to land at San Francisco airport. They almost made it, but if they had "landed" 50 ft or so closer to the end of the runway, they would have run into the end of the pier. As it was, nobody got hurt. They used LPS1 (many gallons of it) to rinse out and recover the engines. I've got a couple of cans of LPS1, 2.5 and 3 which is almost gone. I haven't seen LPS for a few years, but it worked good for me while it lasted.
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I was wrong. It was a DC-8 and it landed over two miles short. It was refurbished and stayed in service for 34 more years. They did use LPS1.
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bahahahahahahahahahhaa, yup, that would do it.
I was "lucky" after leaving WOS in that we ran into a deluge that lasted for a couple hours. Outside of car & trailer got drenched.
Tom,
you are from N.S.?
You do Loring?
Karl
Karl,
Yes, I've lived in Nova Scotia for 38 years. I now have a house in Colorado as well. The best of both worlds! I ran at Loring last year and plan to be there again in July.
Tom
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Excellent on Loring; TeamFatAzz was there in force last July, i was running a green Busa.
What were you on/in?
We'll be there again this July, love that event AND the lobster fest #4 which will follow it near Bath, Maine.
Come by TFA pits for beer at the end of the day, we ALWAYS have beer!
bahahahahahahahahahhaa, yup, that would do it.
I was "lucky" after leaving WOS in that we ran into a deluge that lasted for a couple hours. Outside of car & trailer got drenched.
Tom,
you are from N.S.?
You do Loring?
Karl
Karl,
Yes, I've lived in Nova Scotia for 38 years. I now have a house in Colorado as well. The best of both worlds! I ran at Loring last year and plan to be there again in July.
Tom