Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Aerodynamics => Topic started by: SPARKY on September 17, 2011, 12:10:29 AM
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We have acquired a 5 hp motor and a Ducted 30" fan from Saltine Jim Price--- we are thinking of building a 4'x6'x30' wind tunnel--the frt will taper down to a 40" by 40" at the fan-
-what will we need to do learn :?
to get this thing to "enlighten us" about the new lakesters aero, which will fit inside of this dimension
I am familiar with tuffs---I have not a clue :-o on how to get a useful "smoke" wand
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There was a thread I searched up that mentioned theatrical supply for smoke. It is in the technical section. No further details, I have been reading the entire board, yes, the entire board. What happens when I reach the end?!?!?! :lol:
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Not wind tunnel stuff, but I use dry ice in a big cup with a lid and hose when I flow heads to visualize the flow patterns. Its rudimentary, but works for a cheapskate like me. Something similar might work on your tunnel. Tony
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Sparky, you need to contact the T-2011 team as they have contacts with the PACCAR test facility in Mt. Vernon, WA. Someone at the test facility should have some info. Also, contact the University of Washingtons' department of engineering as they use to have a low speed wind tunnel on campus which we (Kenworth Truck Co) used back in the early 80's to do some testing. We made quite a few smoke runs in it. Maybr Ray the Rat can ask the T-2011 team for some contacts for you.
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Sparky,
You could save lots of time and get aero info that is meaningful if you contact David Wooddruff, Woody, at Design Dreams and have him do some CFD runs on your lakester. Not as much fun but much better info and less time, and probably not as expensive. He does good work and is a "salt" guy. Has done lots of CFD on Tony's rear engine modified roadster. The stuff I have seen has been pretty impressive. Contact at" Design-Dreams@cinci.rr.com
Rex
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What happens when I reach the end?!?!?!
:-o Why then you can even be more confused about most subjects and find yourself thinking---when someone asks a question that was covered in the "STUFF" you read---
why were they not intrested enough to search the previous posts--
T-Man---just yesterday someone quoted an old proverb to me:
"A wiseman learns more from a fool in an hour than a fool learns from a wiseman in a day"
now if I could only figure out how he thought I fit into that picture :-o :cheers: :cheers:
Thanks everyone for the suggestions---
Rex, I noticed you didnt mentions $$$$$$--- if I dont take my knowlege up some I would not know how to recognoize the insights you mentioned
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Trent, there's some pretty good advice here (note the website name): http://www.wwwdotcom.com/ (http://www.wwwdotcom.com/)
:cheers:
Mike
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Sparky,
I am sure that part of Woody's service is to assist you to analyze the information he develops doing the CFD. You would learn a lot from that.
How ever you do it pay special attention to the wheel/tire (s) and the structure that connects them to your tank. I think there is a lot to be gained in this area. Using even optimistically small CD values for these appendages quickly shows that they are the major source of aero drag and anything you can do to improve this area will pay big dividends.
Rex
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Trent, there's some pretty good advice here (note the website name): http://www.wwwdotcom.com/ (http://www.wwwdotcom.com/)
:cheers:
Mike
Shoot, I am in trouble! I am already outside! :-D
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Horsepower Engineering (Doug Robinson) in Pasadena, Ca might be able to suggest ideas on the build of a "Homie" tunnel.
Probably better to E-mail or send a letter as HPE is a busy business.
Methinks 5 HP is way too weak, Sparkster.
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I am sure you are probabaly right :-(
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Sparky, build it and bring it to Kansas next summer, we will tuft it up and set it outside, 40 MPH winds are common... or winter, the snow will blow visually and drift in the drag areas :roll:
:cheers:
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Sparky, build it and bring it to Kansas next summer, we will tuft it up and set it outside, 40 MPH winds are common... or winter, the snow will blow visually and drift in the drag areas :roll:
:cheers:
Or he can bring it up here, we had 60-80 on the ranch yesterday! :-o
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Just might have to do that guys I know I could if I still lived in Amarillo
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Sparky, a friend has a wind tunnel here just east of San Diego, full size. PM me if you want contact information. :-)
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Tunnel who needs no stinkin tunnel when they have this----lol
Thanks, the tunnel is something we may consider in the future!!
James, here is the first immage---thanks again man!!
Now if we are just smart enough to work Photobucket!!!
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I bet some really smart person on this board could come up with a portable wind tunnel built inside an old semi trailer with big glass panels on the sides so it could be brought out to Bonneville and he could make a fortune off of us racers!!!
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T-2011 here; we built a wind tunnel in 2009; it's test section is 12" square and 24" long - overall length is ~ 9 feet; using a home basement fan we draw about 35mph and can test 1:10 scale models of the kind we do (not long streamliners). PACCAR does not have a windtunnel at their Mt. Vernon Technical Center.
We took advantage of the 20-25mph (no racing) cross wind on Thursday at WOS to plain point our car into the wind and look at aero with a little American flag and lots of tuffs attached to our car. We took lots of video and it was very educational and revealing of how the air was flowing around our car.
Michael
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You know Sparky, sometimes the photobucket pictures disappear or do funny things. If you post them just like you posted the picture of the fan, clicking on that picture results in a nice sized picture that remains with the posting so we can refer back to it in the future.
Just sayin'! :wink: :wink: :wink:
Pete
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sparky
dont waste your time with that fan and motor unless your doing scale stuff... we fired up the tunnel last week and again all day today... it has 2 429 fords with 5' carbon fiber blades with both motors running she pulls 50mph, just right for full size motorcycles...
kent
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Kent, Thanks---I got a private email that basacially said the same thing---can move no more wind that a scale model---because of presure waves :cheers: :cheers:
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Kent,
What are the dimensions of your tunnel? Do you do full scale motorcycles in it? Moving floor? How about a picture.
Rex
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Rex, did you notice the silence from 1212 about tunnel specs?
There is one amazingly simple but informational tunnel in So Cal that works really good re: vizualization. But the owner realizes it way too puny for his near 300 mph speed range.
But you will see changes garnered from his tunnel next year!
Waiting to see if they show up on his time slip!
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bite me IB..... ive been busy racing not trolling forums like you...... rex, 9x9 good for full size mortorcycles and small streamliners
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Sparky, I'm sorry I didn't get to meet you in August when you came over to visit the 608, I was busy on the other side of the car and wanted to finish whatever I was doing. But,
Dontcha think that sending a volume of air over a section of the car that you are concerned with will help with visualizing the area? Tuffting or even sticking your hand in the air would help. I think us garage rats
could do without the fancy load cells and computor results. Or you could tether the car with a fish scale and read the results :wink:
Frank
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Tuffting I have done to several suprises, one of the most informing(but costly) things that happened was forgetting to turn on a pump and spewing water all over the inside of the old RATICAL. The water that got out from under the skin joint laps left some very intresing "TRACKS"
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1212 - does that mean I can't take you to the SCTA banquet?
Seriously, I thought the dual 429 engine deal was a giant leg pull.
I pictured the tunnel structure a half block long!
But, WHILE you were racing - and I was repairing a crashed Fuel Altered, incidentally, I was trollin' the internet for more KNOWLEDGE!
As my old Spanish teacher used to say "Saber es Poder"
(One of yor employees can tranlate, I'm sure).
xoxox
IB
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Talked to a guy once who retired from Lockheed Martin or McDonald Douglas or one of those guys...
He told me a story of a wind tunnel they built in house to test small components with out having to tie up their full sized wind tunnel. They called it "the toy".
He said it would have been perfect to test motorcycles in.
The fan was powered by a 426 hemi!!!
It takes a lot of horse power to move air.
Tom
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The full scale wind tunnel at the old LTV plant in Dallas had 33,000 hp! They had to let the power company know when they were going to run as it dipped the line voltage so badly on start up.
Rex
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it takes about 5gal of gas per pull with both motors.... were gonna test Pete Aardema's 'liner next week
kent
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it takes about 5gal of gas per pull with both motors.... were gonna test Pete Aardema's 'liner next week
kent
:cheers:
Know anyone with a camera that can post the pics??
Mike