Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: Joe Timney on July 25, 2011, 08:53:13 AM
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Oktoberfest – Saturday 10/29
If there’s one thing I know, is that our ECTA family loves to party together. So make sure you are at the October meet, because we are going to have a blowout to celebrate YOU…. on US! Saturday evening, October 29th around 7:00 or so, we will have a year- end party at the track under the pavilion (where Jerry’s been servin’ up the grub). Bring your stories; bring your pictures, and your music (BYOB)!
Since we are not sure where we will be racing next year, we want to make sure we get a chance to celebrate your accomplishments of the past year. In order to do this, the points race will end at 12noon on Saturday. Special awards recipients and points winners will be announced Saturday night at the gathering. See you there!
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That I wouldn't miss for the world.
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I'll be there! Will we race Sunday?
Bob
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I'll be there with Leslie & Ben, wouldn't miss it. :cheers:
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I shall be there... I hope this is not the last race "ever" for Maxton..
Just the "last scheduled race for now"... one thing for certain is change...
Maxton has been a good place for us... let's not assume it is gone forever,,, just a short break ( I hope)
Charles
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Amen Charles --- But Maxton is just a location. While it was good for us, the ECTA is the people and a new site will be located.
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Joe you are 100% Correct.... Maxton is a location and the ECTA is more,, it is the People that make the ECTA... The Officials, the Voulunteer Workers, the Racers and Crews, the vendors and spectators.. I know the loacation must change and sometimes change can be good... One thing I know is the ECTA will rermain a premier Land Speed Venue as long as we all hang in there together and support the new loacation or locations.
See you all soon,
Charles
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I love Maxton as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't mind driving a little farther for a track like this... :-D
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Dean,,, I am with ya man,,,, that surface looks like new...
I sure hope we get word soon on our 2012 plans ?
Charles
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Hey guys, where is that beautiful concrete and grass?
Bob
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I love Maxton as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't mind driving a little farther for a track like this... :-D
I'm all for it Dean, but I will miss the 3/4 mile bump and getting airborne. Nothing like hitting the rev limiter in the air. Seriously, Maxton has made me a better rider.
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Hey guys, where is that beautiful concrete and grass?
Bob
Wilmington Airpark in Ohio. Nothing is decided yet, but this is a possible location for ECTA next year.
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Our plan is to run until 6pm Saturday and from 8 til 2 Sunday. Last chance to get a spot in the record books. All records will be sealed at 2pm on Sunday...as in History...for ever. All records will be open at the next venue.
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Our plan is to run until 6pm Saturday and from 8 til 2 Sunday. Last chance to get a spot in the record books. All records will be sealed at 2pm on Sunday...as in History...for ever. All records will be open at the next venue.
Hi Joe - what "next venue"?
We're all ready to get the word...!
Our Best tO You All,
Geo Turner
Geezer Racing
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We will be there. This should be fun
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There will be many more changes in that record book before its all said and done. Everyone bring your big boy pants and some oil dry. I think some people are going to be pushing those engines over the limit to get those green hats!!!!!
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What I don't want to miss is a certain two wheeled missiles possible attempt at a Maxton 3 club.
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I'm pretty sure that there are no plans for that JJ. 272 is about as fast as anyone would want to go at Maxton methinks.
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Who will make the "last" pass of this era at Maxton? Just the last person in line at 2:00 pm or perhaps a chosen person or persons selected by the members or by the directors?
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Who will make the "last" pass of this era at Maxton? Just the last person in line at 2:00 pm or perhaps a chosen person or persons selected by the members or by the directors?
Who made the very "first" pass @ maxton?
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Who will make the "last" pass of this era at Maxton? Just the last person in line at 2:00 pm or perhaps a chosen person or persons selected by the members or by the directors?
Sell raffle tickets for the last pass honor. Could be a money maker.
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I'm pretty sure that there are no plans for that JJ. 272 is about as fast as anyone would want to go at Maxton methinks.
I just read somewhere that the next goal was 300 at maxton. Don't quote me on it though.
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300 in the mile, not 300 at Maxton, according to Bill.
I bet he could do it, but it would be extra-exciting in shutdown.
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I actually read 300 at maxton somewhere but you know how credible the internet is at times. :cheers:
I thought it sounded a bit crazy but if someone had told me they were gonna go 270+ on a bike at maxton I would have been doubtful too.
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Maybe some one else talking about the big number, not me.
At Maxton I could never make the corner in shut-down at that speed.
Looking forward to running the new bike in the mile, where ever the ECTA goes. (I hear Florida is nice :-)
Bill
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Amy and me are finally finishing the new car,life happens. we will run sept and definitely be there in Oct.
the venue is nice, it's the people that make the race. looking forward to new adventures.
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I would bet big money that the president and race director will be making the last pass at maxton. I certainly would not have it any other way. They deserve the last pass and final memory of this great place.
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I would bet big money that the president and race director will be making the last pass at maxton. I certainly would not have it any other way. They deserve the last pass and final memory of this great place.
I agree
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I love Maxton as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't mind driving a little farther for a track like this... :-D
I'm sure hoping 4 wilmington.
franey
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Mike, Charles, I think that is the high probability choice and a fine one. This might need a separate thread. The longest/oldest ECTA member, the member holding the most records, the member who set the most records, Greg Neal's Raffle idea, a group procession---lots of choices available. It's not so much that we leave, it's how we leave.
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Mike, Charles, I think that is the high probability choice and a fine one. This might need a separate thread. The longest/oldest ECTA member, the member holding the most records, the member who set the most records, Greg Neal's Raffle idea, a group procession---lots of choices available. It's not so much that we leave, it's how we leave.
Totally correct. It is about the family leaving the old home for a new one. Think of the adventures ahead.
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Our plan is to run until 6pm Saturday and from 8 til 2 Sunday. Last chance to get a spot in the record books. All records will be sealed at 2pm on Sunday...as in History...for ever. All records will be open at the next venue.
So at the new venue all records are set back to zero ? Any minimums ? We are just getting to a point where there are only a few open records. With all open records at the new venue, the big bikes (and cars) will surely dominate points for the next few years.
Dan
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Dan, I don't know why 'big' would dominate..maybe I am reading it wrong.
Bob
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Why dont we wait for another venue to be in place before we worry about points system. This could take awhile.
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for those that are interested -
wilmingtonmile.com
bf
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Should Maxton close Make all of the minimum record speeds the same as the current records at Maxton..also perhaps re-address the minimum speeds for records on any open classes should there still be any left..if the record is 150 mph at Maxton make it the same at the next venue as long as it is the same track...after all setting the record in the 3000cc APS-BF class at 190 mph when the record should be over 240-250+ mph..that record should mean something and be deserved for something other than attendance and an entry fee.
Before the East Coast racers or others take exception to my post..if I had the records in F, E, D, C, B, A ..at nearly the same MPH I would not take my racing program very seriously however I would be proud of the littering of the record book for whatever racing organization I was in and for my team or sponsors.
Hopefully the track can remain and the racers can continue making and setting history in North Carolina, I have raced there and got in the two club in a few passes and have raced since..great time, great people and Keith, Joe, Donna Really made me feel welcome and put on a great event every time I was there from California.
Noonan
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John,
Having just participated in the Texas Mile moving from Goliad to Beeville, i have to disagree with bringing records/minimum speeds from one venue to another. IMO each asphalt track has it's own challenges and should have it's own records.
It seems that "littering the record book" is a consequence of allowing running up in class?????
Perhaps i don't completely understand what you are proposing??
Karl
Should Maxton close Make all of the minimum record speeds the same as the current records at Maxton..also perhaps re-address the minimum speeds for records on any open classes should there still be any left..if the record is 150 mph at Maxton make it the same at the next venue as long as it is the same track...after all setting the record in the 3000cc APS-BF class at 190 mph when the record should be over 240-250+ mph..that record should mean something and be deserved for something other than attendance and an entry fee.
Before the East Coast racers or others take exception to my post..if I had the records in F, E, D, C, B, A ..at nearly the same MPH I would not take my racing program very seriously however I would be proud of the littering of the record book for whatever racing organization I was in and for my team or sponsors.
Hopefully the track can remain and the racers can continue making and setting history in North Carolina, I have raced there and got in the two club in a few passes and have raced since..great time, great people and Keith, Joe, Donna Really made me feel welcome and put on a great event every time I was there from California.
Noonan
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I don't like the idea of taking the records from one track to another. I am in favor of closing the book and starting over. The points race is something that is meant to be as fair as possible. It is a difficult thing to make rules that allow two hundred plus mile an hour bikes compete with sub one hundred mile an hour bikes.
I am sure there is a way but I have spent years thinking about it . I cant come up with a better plan.. Minimums are OK but have problems .Limiting open records to one hundred points will cause problems.
Closing one book and opening another is a rare chance to make up a new system that is better .Without hurting anyone that raced before Since we are stating a new record book.There are a lot of smart people around. This is a chance to get it right.I think it is worth the effort.
I am looking forward to the party on Saturday. But Sunday the last race at Maxton will be VERY SAD. :cry:
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I'm a relative newcomer to all this but I feel like I've been around long enough to have earned an opinion.
I agree - let's start over. One of the records to be retired will likely be mine (unless someone bumps it in the next two meets) and I'm OK with that. New place, new era, new book, new records. I'm not wild about minimums either. Seems like that will sort itself out in due time. If someone sets a soft record someone else will come along and firm it up, as it should be.
Dan
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Donna T. or Tonya T. should know the answer to the Million dollar question of "Who made the first pass @ Maxton.,,,,,, To keep it interesting if that person is at the last meet they should,, get the honor of the last pass. If they are not then, it would be fun as a raffle. :-D
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Records set at any venue(course) are that venues records. To transfer them to another venue that will have totally different conditions, course surface, Etc. They are historical and should remain as such. Where ever the ECTA ends up is a new start and everyone is on a equal bases to be the first record holder and something for others to chase. And Keith could get another 200 mph hat.
:cheers:
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Keith has boxes full of 200 Club hats - and he doesn't even wear hats! He COULD give me one, but NOOOoooo. It's the only way I'd ever get one, for sure.
Dan
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I disagree, Glen. ECTA should take this opportunity to establish itself as the keeper of the one-mile pavement LSR records, wherever they are set. NHRA has national records and you can set a national record at any one of their sanctioned strips.
ECTA may run in the future at one or another location. They should carry their records over and establish them as national pavement one-mile records. They should adopt minimums for remaining open records and use El Mirage rules as their guidelines for the points championship including minimums. They could still allow running up in class as long as the competitor surpassed the existing or minimum record.
I believe that SCTA made a mistake by establishing separate Muroc records. Yes, they were at a different distance, but on a very similar course. And all the Muroc records, since dropped from the SCTA Rule Book, were never set under much competition. ECTA has a chance to now to not allow the same thing to happen to them.
They can still have the wide variety of competitors that they enjoy now,with much of the same options, but tighten up their organization.
Stan Back
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Stan, you have every right to your opinion. I just hope they can find a location and long term rental to run for years. :-)
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Good points made by everyone. I say close the books. Just to many variables, and we certainly are not the NHRA. Who knows if it will be just one facility the ECTA goes to. Could be a mile, could be 1.5 miles. I think we need to have a positive confirmation on where the ECTA runs next before any other discussion is even relative. Just my thoughts.
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I think that given the surface condition at Maxton and the fact that that course has bends in it, all of which add up to a track that is not the easiest place to lay down a real fast pass, let alone get one stopped, records set at Maxton are more significant then records set on a smooth, clean, straight surface like Texas or Wilmington maybe. That is my opinion but I feel as if most people think the same way.
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I'm with you Joe, I was sitting here thinking (keeps me from doing anything strenuous) exactly the same thing. Maxton is so different that records set there are probably more difficult to set than anywhere but Bonneville.
Lets just retire those and start anew.
Bob
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I find it quite intresting how this thread has morphed into a discussion of records and modifications of how to transition to a new facility. Amy and I have both members of the ECTA for 3 yrs. and not the Maxton racing association.We are finishing up a car to be competitive in the ECTA even though there are only two races left at Maxton. We agree with Stan in that the ECTA should solidify its self as keeper of the standing mile / one mile LSR records. All venues change, the salt is not the same every year and if "salt flats racing " was moved to another salt flat it would still be salt flats racing. If the ECTA should find its self at a facility that is 1.5 mi. or better it does not mean that the ECTA HAS to run 1.5mi. Achievements made by those who run the standing mile are impressive and shouldn't be over shadowed by the venue. my 1.5 cents worth. PS, We'll see the ECTA folks where ever we end up. :-)
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Good points made by everyone. I say close the books. Just to many variables, and we certainly are not the NHRA. Who knows if it will be just one facility the ECTA goes to. Could be a mile, could be 1.5 miles. I think we need to have a positive confirmation on where the ECTA runs next before any other discussion is even relative. Just my thoughts.
My thoughts exactly.
Ed
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As to 1.5 or 1 mile events. Why not have two sets of lights? Then you could still do mile speeds at the same time as 1.5.
I do also think the ECTA should be the official keeper of the standing mile records and I think if we make the move to Wilmington and it is as nice as I hear it is, the ECTA could attract alot more of the supercars running in texas, assuming they buck up and make their cars pass tech.
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The course and surface conditions at Bonneville are not the same two years in a row.
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The course and surface conditions at Bonneville are not the same two years in a row.
We're not talking about Bonneville, are we?
Having run at Maxton and Loring, the differences are IMMENSE. Even setting up a set of lights @ the 1 mile
mark @ Loring would be drastically different than the 1 mile mark @ Maxton. Different tracks, different challenges.
Would you compare the 1.3 miles of El Mirage to 1.3 miles anywhere else? Probably not. Maxton's racing surface
is a challenging piece of concrete, and no other track is comparable. Track material being the same does not make
each track the same. Maxton's 1/8 mile dogleg, "the bump", etc. are storied pieces of this track.
As for the NHRA comparison, there is no comparison. The NHRA has much stricter rules about track consistency
than most LSR venues. Track prep being the main contender. A racer at Maxton may run 5 minutes ahead of a
"class competitor" and experience a 10 mph tail-wind, with the next racer experiencing a cross- or head-wind.
I think anyone who actively races with the ECTA would agree.
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That's pretty much what I said as each venue is different. The records are for it only. New track, new records with everyone running under the same conditions to get a record.
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Each venue is unique and holds its own records ... I agree with Glen ...
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Each venue is unique and holds its own records ... I agree with Glen ...
I agree 100% as well...
Charles
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Dan, I don't know why 'big' would dominate..maybe I am reading it wrong.
Bob
Bob, the way the points work is you get 50 points for starting a run, 50 points for finishing, and 2 times each MPH over the existing record. So if you run 100 MPH in an open record (zero), you will get 50+50+2*100 or 300 points. If you run 200 MPH in an open record, you get 50+50+2*200 or 500 points. So the faster bikes/cars will always get more points if everyone is running on open records.
One way to normalize this would be to have minimums (or existing records) as the base for points calculations. Then instead of awarding points equal to two times the MPH over existing records, it would be 2 times the percentage increase in the MPH over the records. So for example, going 105 on a 100 MPH record would give you 2 * 5 points (5%), the same as going 210 on a 200 MPH record.
Points calculations could be separate from records.
Anyway, I will let those who have been doing this a lot longer than me make the decisions. I was simply making an observation, having assumed the records would carry over.
Daniel
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This is turning into a very interesting thread indeed. I agree with those that think that ECTA should step up to the plate and become the keeper of the 1 mile records. I realize that there is a lot of history with the track at Maxton. As well I am building a car with the 1 mile course in mind, recent health issues have slowed my build down but hopefully I can still make one run with the new car at Maxton. If not I will tow my old Supra up for October. In the future I will go where ECTA goes, and hopefully many of our current competitors will follow.
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The open record is zero. The open record has no speed at all so it is nothing. So 50 points to start 50 points to finish then it is 2 X nothing .Nothing is zero So 100 mph run on an open record is 50+50+(2x0)=100 points . The biggest problem I see wth the points race is competing with open records. But that only takes a couple years to fix.
This may lead to sand bagging the first run .I don't see this as a problem since everyone can run on your sand bagged run next month .With a new record book everyone will be tied for first place in the first month. So I don't know
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The points race seems to go full circle. It hasn't been the fastest bikes winning the points since I have been at Maxton. Look at the points this year. All of the large bore records are still being broken, but they have curent records associated with them. The small bore and side car records that are still open are where the big points getters are. I'm not complaining at all about it. Running a 650 and 1000 class bike I don't chace points. It would be useless. We just strive to be as fast as we can each pass. Now back to the new venue.
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I dont understand the big interest in the points system deal. The points system has been manipulated in the past by a few enterprising individuals. Simply find a class that is not hotly pursued and set a record as low as you can and tack on a couple of tenths each run. Do this at all 5 meets a year and you will be the points champion.
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This thread sure opened my eyes to the way points are awarded, thanks guys. I have never really paid any attention to points, I run one class only and the only thing that matters is going as fast as the bike will go and having fun. I think I will keep it that way.
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The open record is zero. The open record has no speed at all so it is nothing. So 50 points to start 50 points to finish then it is 2 X nothing .Nothing is zero So 100 mph run on an open record is 50+50+(2x0)=100 points .
Are you sure about this ? Based on the number of points I have gotten in the past on an open record, I think my formula is correct.
50+50+( 2 x (MPH - 0)) or 50+50+(2x100) = 300
For example, I got 244 points in the May meet on a open record, 50+50+(2 * 72 MPH).
Daniel
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You are correct with your math.
I was making a suggestion on changing the rule to reduce the advantage to the open records. In my mind the points race winner should be the team that brakes the record by the Maximum amount .So going 105 on a 100 mph record is the same as going 205 on a 200 mph record.
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Returning this thread to the subject of records and venue, ECTA has already set precedence regarding this. The oldest records in the book, are mine and Joe Laws, both set at the track in Ga.
I have run very close to my record time in the early years at Maxton but not exceeded it. During that period I had not made any major changes to the Merk, and It was pretty consistent.
That said, if ECTA chose to become keeper of the 1 mile cement records, it would be consistent with their past actions.
BUT, the times I ran ECTA in early years, I was NEVER scrutinized for proper class, nor engine displacement and Fuel legality. With the advent of highly oxygenated fuels, this becomes more important for "GAS" classes.
Without proper certification, I don't see any common records.
How does ECTA know what happens at Loring or Texas, if the event is run and promoted by different organizations with less discipline.
Not gonna happen.
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One mile records? If folks think one size fits all, they are naive. Maxton has an elevation of 220 feet. There are also 2 dog legs to contend with. One near the start and one after the finish line. Any other venue would differ dramatically in configuration. No other course will resemble this. Close the book and reopen at the new, as yet unnamed, location.
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What happens if we are allowed to run at Maxton a year or so from now? If the books are closed then whats the point....Maxton Rev. II?
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One mile records? If folks think one size fits all, they are naive. Maxton has an elevation of 220 feet. There are also 2 dog legs to contend with. One near the start and one after the finish line. Any other venue would differ dramatically in configuration. No other course will resemble this. Close the book and reopen at the new, as yet unnamed, location.
X 2.
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X3!